3rd attempt at warrior VS wizard PVP!

[NimbleNZ]

Aasimar necropolitan mage killer (3rd attempt)
Aka: Fluffy the wizard slayer

“The extraordinarily rare evil aasimar often makes the vilest villain”.

Hi,
This is my third attempt at level 20 warrior VS level 20 wizard PVP for arena matches, I hope you like it. Please let me know what you think! :smallbiggrin:
Rules are pretty much the same rules as before:

“arena is a 1000 ft cube, leaving the arena forfeits, celerity is allowed, only 1 contingency allowed, match lasts 50 rounds, audience or DM decide the winner if both combatants still active at the end. I've used whatever books I can find for the warrior so the wizard can do the same”.
To this I would only add that players may or may not know what class their opponent will be fighting with. It might be used in a free for all battle, team battles, or duels.

I also made a thread with some questions that relate to this build, such as speed and undead using CHA instead of CON. The link is here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221318

Ok, here goes!

Templates: Necropolitan (LA +0)
2 Flaws and the quick trait

Attributes (32 point buy):
Strength:16/+3
Constitution: N/A
Dexterity: 20/+5
Intelligence: 24/+7 or 18/+4 if MDJ’d
Wisdom: 32/+11 or 26/+8 if MDJ’d
Charisma: 26/+8 or 20/+5 if MDJ’d

HP: 130 + (20 x 7 Wis) = 270 (probably HP is lower, not sure how it works retro-actively).

Touch AC: 44 or 35 if MDJ’d (I have not stacked monk AC with swordsage AC, don't worry).

Initiative: You won’t be going first!

Attack: +16/+11/+6/+1
+16 (BAB) +1 (WF katana) +3 (strength) = 20 (+5 with chosen of evil feat)

Damage: Ubercharge as best you can, then power attack. Damage isn’t great, but if you disjunction away the wizard’s buffs then it doesn’t need to be.

Special attacks:
-Momentary disjunction every 5 rounds, will save: DC 20 + 8 (CHA bonus) = 28
-Fearsome eye gaze attack (DC 14 for anyone looking character), paralyses with fear 1d4 rounds

Reach:15ft (30ft with reach weapon)

Speed: 30ft + 10ft (quick trait) + 10ft (fast leg graft) = 50ft
Flying: (50 x2) + 30ft (air heritage) = 130. 260 on a charge, 520 on a double move.
NOTE: I may be wrong about the fly speed, it may not double the quick trait/leg graft as well. In that the base fly speed is 90ft (30 x2 +30). I made a thread inquiring about this here:

Saves:
Will and reflex saves: Using concentration = 42
Fortitude: 17 (levels) +8 (CHA from sustaining prescence) +2 (great fortitude) +8 (CHA instead of CON for undead) = 35

Key skills: Concentration, PrC pre-requisites

Feats:13 + 5 vile
Air heritage, Power attack, Improved bull rush, Shock trooper, Mage slayer, Quick draw, Weapon focus (katana), Improved initiative, Toughness, Iron will, Endurance, Skill focus (+3 concentration), Great fortitude, Willing deformity, Deformity: tall (+5ft reach), Chosen of evil, Deformity: gaunt (+2 dexterity and -2 Constitution), Vile martial strike: katana (+1 damage)

Classes (not in order of progression):
Fighter 1 feats
Monk 2 evasion, feats, wis to AC
Totemist 2 blink shirt
Swordsage 2 diamond mind stances > will and reflex use concentration
Dragon warrior 2 wis to AC and HP
Witch slayer 5 mettle
Iaijatsu master 1 Int to AC
Exemplar 4 boost concentration, CHA to concentration and fort

Immunities!:
Negative levels.
Poisons.
Mind-affecting.
Paralysis and Stunning.
Ability Drain, Energy Drain, damage to physical stats.

Items/grafts:
Tomes/manuals: 110k x3 = 330k
Fearsome eye graft: 120k (see invisibility as spell, gaze attack 30 ft) Gloves of Cha, periapt of Wis, Headband of Int: 118k
Membranous wing graft: 50k
Ring of freedom of movement: 40k
Claws of the leopard: approx 38.5k
Belt of battle: 12k (for extra turns/actions)
Pick of piercing (for bigby?): 9.5k
Fast Leg graft: 4k (+10 land speed)
Long arm graft: 5k (+5 reach, can has 2 long arms?)
BLINK shirt from totemist
727k total (under WBL this time :smallwink:)

Tactics:
The tactics assume that the wizard will expend a lot of high level spells on things like: time stop, force cage + cloud-kill, death-effect stuff, etc. You want the wizard to do this because most of it will not hurt you.

You are immune to must things and you dont rely much on items so when your stuff gets dispelled you can keep fighting.

Fluffy's will and reflex saves are really high, and they use concentration so you don’t fail on a 1. Fluffy is vulnerable to a 1 on a fortitude save, or a very high (maybe just 20) attack roll to beat your touch AC. Wizards will have to use true strike to get past your AC, so that’s a 50% reduction in their damage right away.
Your defences should give you a decent window in which to kill the wizard. There’s only 1 contingency allowed, so once you burn through it you should be able to rush up and disjunction him.
Also, every round he spends facing you within 30ft is another chance he will roll a 1 on his will save to avoid being paralysed by your gaze attack.
That’s about it. You’ll still probably lose, but you’ll make him sweat a bit first which is a moral win for a level 20 melee type against a level 20 wizard. And maybe, just maybe, you’ll get lucky.

Hope you like it guys, let me know what you think :smallbiggrin:

Ps: when criticising, please try to imagine that you haven’t just read this build and describe how you would act in that situation. I know there are weaknesses, but just because they exist it doesn’t (necessarily) follow that they would be exploited on the first turn!:smallwink:

Cheers guys,

NimbleNZ

[Wings of Peace]

What do you do when he casts Force Cage + Maw of Chaos/any other aoe because Cloud Kill isn't working? I don't see any teleportation items on the warrior. Anklet of Translocation seems like a good investment.

Edit: Also, the build you've listed is only 19 level long. Or is that to account for Necropolitan?

[NimbleNZ]

What do you do when he casts Force Cage + Maw of Chaos/any other aoe because Cloud Kill isn't working? I don't see any teleportation items on the warrior. Anklet of Translocation seems like a good investment.

Edit: Also, the build you've listed is only 19 level long. Or is that to account for Necropolitan?

theres 2 levels of totemist for blink shirt but i foolishly left blink shirt off the item list, i will edit this now.

[NimbleNZ]

Edit: Also, the build you've listed is only 19 level long. Or is that to account for Necropolitan?

no the necropolitan template is, amazingly, LA+0.

aasimar however, are LA+1, which is why there are only 19 class levels.

[GodGoblin]

Aasimar are full Outsiders can they even be Necropolitans?

[NimbleNZ]

Aasimar are full Outsiders can they even be Necropolitans?

i think so, they have they outsider (native) type and they are only treated as being extraplanar when they are away from the material plane like everyone else.

can anyone else confirm/deny?

[GodGoblin]

Ah yeah i forgot about that but still I think Necro can only be applied to Humanoids, im AFB at the mo so cant check im afraid.

[Vowtz]

You fly from a spell, an item or from wings, whats the maneuverability?

[gkathellar]

You cannot apply the Necropolitan template to Outsiders, even Native ones, IIRC.

However, Lesser Aasimar from FR are exactly the same as regular aasimar, but are humanoid, and have LA +0. So, not only does that solve your compatibility problem, it frees you up another level.

[NimbleNZ]

You cannot apply the Necropolitan template to Outsiders, even Native ones, IIRC.

However, Lesser Aasimar from FR are exactly the same as regular aasimar, but are humanoid, and have LA +0. So, not only does that solve your compatibility problem, it frees you up another level.

thanks for clearing up the humanoid dilemma. However, the my MM is telling that the regular aasimar have LA +1 as well.

still, no worse off than when we started :smalltongue:

cheers,

edit: "Lesser Aasimar from FR" oops i did not see this, plus i only have the MM and don't know what FR stands for

[NimbleNZ]

You fly from a spell, an item or from wings, whats the maneuverability?

flight from the fiendish graft 'membranous wings' p.211 of the fiend folio.

its twice your "normal land speed" at average manoeuverability.

theres a link asking about the exact RAW for the flight speed in the post.

but worst case scenario its 30 x2 +30 (air heritage) = 90 ft move action flight speed

[faceroll]

Do you have a way to overcome Ironguard and Superior Invisibility (both from spell compendium)?

[Vowtz]

I guess with you having average meneuverability I could maintain the previous thread's tactics.

time stop > summon monsters (monoliths, I like those guys)

They will try to grapple you, and fail because of your ring, the next monster trip you(with average maneuverability and wing based movement you can be tripped even flying), then try to sunder your stuff, while other monster prepares an action to trip you again in case you stand up. Meanwhile the wizard will be hiding.

In case the monoliths fail to win you can try a lot of things, like ranged touch spells, fireball, magic missile and such, while you are still trip locked by the gargantuan monsters.

[NimbleNZ]

Do you have a way to overcome Ironguard and Superior Invisibility (both from spell compendium)?

ironguard: use the crystal weapon thingy, i forget what its called exactly. someone mentioned in my last attempt, ill dig it up and edit this post.

superior invisibilty: i don't have access to the spell compendium atm, does it foil the basic 'see invisibility'? im getting see invisibilty from a fiendish graft listed in items.

[faceroll]

ironguard: use the crystal weapon thingy, i forget what its called exactly. someone mentioned in my last attempt, ill dig it up and edit this post.

superior invisibilty: i don't have access to the spell compendium atm, does it foil the basic 'see invisibility'? im getting see invisibilty from a fiendish graft listed in items.

"Superior invisibility renders the recipient immune to detection by see invisibility, faerie fire, glitterdust, invisibility purge, and dust of appearance, although creatures under the effect of the spell can be detected by true seeing. Certain mundane conditions (such as leaving footprints) can also render a subject detectable."

You need True Seeing, in that case.

[NimbleNZ]

I guess with you having average meneuverability I could maintain the previous thread's tactics.

time stop > summon monsters (monoliths, I like those guys)

They will try to grapple you, and fail because of your ring, the next monster trip you(with average maneuverability and wing based movement you can be tripped even flying), then try to sunder your stuff, while other monster prepares an action to trip you again in case you stand up. Meanwhile the wizard will be hiding.

In case the monoliths fail to win you can try a lot of things, like ranged touch spells, fireball, magic missile and such, while you are still trip locked by the gargantuan monsters.

if i ditch the LA +1 from aasimar then i could get another level of fighter and get improved flight.

that would boost manoeuverability to good. also, could wriggle drop mage slayer and take run, for x5 instead of x4 full turn movement.

that would stop trip attacks and boost speed by 90ft :)

[NimbleNZ]

"Superior invisibility renders the recipient immune to detection by see invisibility, faerie fire, glitterdust, invisibility purge, and dust of appearance,

...oh lordy, thats quite a spell.

am i too evil to take VoP? :smallwink:

theres some items i could take like the 'Cowl of Warding (MoF). 200800GP'.

there's probably cheaper ones. also it will be vulnerable to dispelling, but my will saves are really good and i dont fail on a 1.

anyone know any better items for true sight? or any other non-item means of gaining it?

[charcoalninja]

...oh lordy, thats quite a spell.

am i too evil to take VoP? :smallwink:

theres some items i could take like the 'Cowl of Warding (MoF). 200800GP'.

there's probably cheaper ones. also it will be vulnerable to dispelling, but my will saves are really good and i dont fail on a 1.

anyone know any better items for true sight? or any other non-item means of gaining it?

Candle of Evocation to summon a big bad beastie like a Planetar will grab you true sight.

[Vowtz]

Nice try, but on D&D® Frequently Asked Questions: "Anything using limbs for locomotion can be tripped". Having wings to fly is still a problem.

You could stand as as free action with tumble DC 35(complete adventurer I think), then tumble again to get away from the monsters without provoking AoO, but you couldn't charge the wizard(the monsters are in the way) even if you have a way to locate him, the summons then could keep fighting you until you die (you are not immune to physical punishment this time).

And there is the problem that one of the monsters is waiting for you to stand to trip you again(I forgot that), but you could just stand as a free action again(still provoking AoO).

[Mooncrow]

Hathran Mask of True SeeingUE - 75,000gp. Continuous true seeing

[NimbleNZ]

Nice try, but on D&D® Frequently Asked Questions: "Anything using limbs for locomotion can be tripped". Having wings to fly is still a problem.

You could stand as as free action with tumble DC 35(complete adventurer I think), then tumble again to get away from the monsters without provoking AoO, but you couldn't charge the wizard(the monsters are in the way) even if you have a way to locate him, the summons then could keep fighting you until you die (you are not immune to physical punishment this time).

And there is the problem that one of the monsters is waiting for you to stand to trip you again(I forgot that), but you could just stand as a free action again(still provoking AoO).

i would have a tumble skill of 25 right now, so theres a 50% chance. could probably boost it with items/grafts (more items grr).

i'm only worried about the gated monsters, they are really nasty. the wizard cant get more than 4 level 9 spells right? so theres time stop (very likely) and 3 gate spells. thats 3 nasties for 20 rounds.

theres no guaranteeing he will spend his level 9s on gate, but if he does i guess just survive the 20 rounds as best i can. touch AC 40+ helps, but yeah...

otherwise, i guess i could make a hybrid build, with damage immunity and high AC. i can already think of one way to get SR 30 and damage immunity.

[NimbleNZ]

Hathran Mask of True SeeingUE - 75,000gp. Continuous true seeing

thanking you !

...i have used this item before...man i feel silly :smallmad:

[jindra34]

Just double checking on if any Pathfinder resources are allowed, because Thanatopic Spell (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/thanatopic-spell-metamagic) will enable a wizard to really mess you up. Primarily because it flat out says that being undead is not enough immunity.

[NimbleNZ]

Just double checking on if any Pathfinder resources are allowed, because Thanatopic Spell (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/thanatopic-spell-metamagic) will enable a wizard to really mess you up. Primarily because it flat out says that being undead is not enough immunity.

no sorry, no pathfinder allowed. i don't have any of the books and have no idea how to play it.

fortuitously so in this case!

[Vowtz]

theres no guaranteeing he will spend his level 9s on gate, but if he does i guess just survive the 20 rounds as best i can. touch AC 40+ helps, but yeah... with AC 40+ you still will be hit pretty easily, the monster I was refering to has a +40 to hit (and you don't summon him with gate, it is a less costly spell), all wizards have scribe scroll as a first level feat, so you can assume that he has more than 4 9th level spells.


Your touch AC is 44, but what is your normal AC?

[jindra34]

no sorry, no pathfinder allowed. i don't have any of the books and have no idea how to play it.

fortuitously so in this case!

Pathfinder is essentially a rework of 3.5, most things work the same but classes are generally given more options, dead levels are removed, and some of the more powerful spells were blunted. With just its core its slightly more balanced than 3.5, but the support books quickly dashed the balance.

[NimbleNZ]

with AC 40+ you still will be hit pretty easily, the monster I was refering to has a +40 to hit (and you don't summon him with gate, it is a less costly spell), all wizards have scribe scroll as a first level feat, so you can assume that he has more than 4 9th level spells.


Your touch AC is 44, but what is your normal AC?

my normal AC 44, and my flat-footed AC is a whopping 10!

how many level 8 and 9 summonable mosters would that prevent?...it looks like i need damage immunity back again.

other than being savaged by beasties, how would i fare against the wizard's spells?

thanks for the help Vowtz

[NimbleNZ]

Pathfinder is essentially a rework of 3.5, most things work the same but classes are generally given more options, dead levels are removed, and some of the more powerful spells were blunted. With just its core its slightly more balanced than 3.5, but the support books quickly dashed the balance.

i hear the whole point of it was to make it more exciting. i approve of eradicating dead levels, theres nothing worse than levelling up, in any game, and getting next to nothing for it.

ill take a look at it :)

[Vowtz]

my normal AC 44, and my flat-footed AC is a whopping 10!

how many level 8 and 9 summonable mosters would that prevent?...it looks like i need damage immunity back again.

other than being savaged by beasties, how would i fare against the wizard's spells?

thanks for the help VowtzYou can count on me, I'm here to help!

I think what you should be gunning for is:

- Find a way to act before the wizard(almost impossible it seems) or survive first round

- Have a reliable way to locate and obliterate him in one round with a charge.


Maybe 2 levels of Drunken Master(Complete Warrior) could help you, he does not need a straight line to charge.

[Mooncrow]

This build has an awful lot riding on the wizard failing the DC 28 Will save, and that doesn't really seem like a particularly good bet, unless you have a way to lower saves?

[NimbleNZ]

This build has an awful lot riding on the wizard failing the DC 28 Will save, and that doesn't really seem like a particularly good bet, unless you have a way to lower saves?

im afraid i dont, i could try to boost my CHA some more to make it harder but thats about it.

what kind of will saves would you expect wizards to have at level 20?

[NimbleNZ]

You can count on me, I'm here to help!

I think what you should be gunning for is:

- Find a way to act before the wizard(almost impossible it seems) or survive first round

- Have a reliable way to locate and obliterate him in one round with a charge.


Maybe 2 levels of Drunken Master(Complete Warrior) could help you, he does not need a straight line to charge.

one of the first things i did was to guage public opinion, here and at enworld, about how foresight + celerity works. most people agree that the wizard is always prepared, has celerity up, and goes first. there doesnt seem any way around that.

i could house rule against it, but then i would be creating artificial conditions to help myself win. just gotta find a way to survive it.

cant help but marvel at the massive jump effectiveness for casters between level 18 and level 20.

[Vowtz]

what kind of will saves would you expect wizards to have at level 20?
Without any kind of optimization and assuming an initial wisdom of 11 let's see:

+3(base wis+tome) + 5 (resistance) + 12(base will) = +20, with feats, more magical items, higher initial wisdom and multiclassing he can get over 30 easily.

[NimbleNZ]

Without any kind of optimization and assuming an initial wisdom of 11 let's see:

+3(base wis+tome) + 5 (resistance) + 12(base will) = +20, with feats, more magical items, higher initial wisdom and multiclassing he can get over 30 easily.

so we're looking at a 5% chance of being disjunction'd, and a 5% chance (if hes not immune) of being paralysed.

"60 per cent of the time, it works every time". Or rather, "10% per cent of the time, it might work"

...i think i may have to discontinue this exercise. i was just looking at a thread where they were debating a wizard 20 VS every ship in the star wars galaxy. and the wizard WON!

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=177150

what can a warrior do? hit stuff with sticks. its a little
discouraging :smalltongue:

[Little Brother]

Dude, Runescarred Berserker. I hate to push it every time, but is the best warrior PrC. Especially since grafts are mundane. Probably Monk(Chaos or otherwise) X/Lion Spirit Totem Barbarian 1/Shou Disciple 3/Runescarred Awesome X. Mundane flight with Feathered Wings, and flurry with Multiattack. Why not be an Elan or Synad with Rapidstrike?

More or less, you get AMF. As a barbarian. What is not awesome there?

[NimbleNZ]

Dude, Runescarred Berserker. I hate to push it every time, but is the best warrior PrC. Especially since grafts are mundane. Probably Monk(Chaos or otherwise) X/Lion Spirit Totem Barbarian 1/Shou Disciple 3/Runescarred Awesome X. Mundane flight with Feathered Wings, and flurry with Multiattack. Why not be an Elan or Synad with Rapidstrike?

More or less, you get AMF. As a barbarian. What is not awesome there?

i've never even looked at this PrC before, nor do i know what an Elan or a Synad is.

i'll look them up, cheers :)

[Little Brother]

i've never even looked at this PrC before, nor do i know what an Elan or a Synad is.

i'll look them up, cheers :)Runsecarred Berserker from Unapproachable East. Gives you the ability to effectively scribe scrolls in your skin.

Shou Disciple: Among other things, grants, at 3rd level, the ability to flurry with any light weapons. Natural Weapons are light.

Elan. Expanded Psionics Handbook or SRD. Grants some power points, some nice utility abilities and is, most importantly, and Aberration.

Synad: Complete Psionics. Aberration. Some nifty bonuses, like a +2 on will saves, a free +2 on basically any roll, and a free mental swift action 1/day. Nifty for stuff like the Belt of Battle and such.

Aberration gives you Rapidstrike and the improved one, or, in other words, bajillion and a half natural attacks.

Oh, and you might want snap kick for an extra attack, depending on if you can afford all the penalties to attack.

[kardar233]

How are you getting Disjunction on that chassis? My Warhulk Hood needs to know.

[NimbleNZ]

How are you getting Disjunction on that chassis? My Warhulk Hood needs to know.

its a class ability for witch slayer level 5 called momentary disjunction.

its range is 30 ft and its DC is 20 + your CHA modifier.

[NimbleNZ]

Runsecarred Berserker from Unapproachable East. Gives you the ability to effectively scribe scrolls in your skin.

Shou Disciple: Among other things, grants, at 3rd level, the ability to flurry with any light weapons. Natural Weapons are light.

Elan. Expanded Psionics Handbook or SRD. Grants some power points, some nice utility abilities and is, most importantly, and Aberration.

Synad: Complete Psionics. Aberration. Some nifty bonuses, like a +2 on will saves, a free +2 on basically any roll, and a free mental swift action 1/day. Nifty for stuff like the Belt of Battle and such.

Aberration gives you Rapidstrike and the improved one, or, in other words, bajillion and a half natural attacks.

Oh, and you might want snap kick for an extra attack, depending on if you can afford all the penalties to attack.

wow thanks for going to the trouble to list all that

do the multiattack penalties go down to 0 if you add ambidexterity?

ill try to find a way to cram it into a build. after all the touch AC/immunity/saves stuff its hard to find room!

[Little Brother]

wow thanks for going to the trouble to list all that I knew it off the top of my head, so there was no trouble. If you're open to a bid more cheese, pay a Psion ahead of time to PsiRef away some bad prereqs.

do the multiattack penalties go down to 0 if you add ambidexterity?No clue. Where is this?

ill try to find a way to cram it into a build. after all the touch AC/immunity/saves stuff its hard to find room!Remember something. AMF does bad things to wizards. You have AMF with Runescarred Berserker. That's the big thing about it. If they Disjunction it, oh well, they've wasted an action, unless they're playing mean enough to celerity into that, in which case you have no chance anyways. You can put it up again if you need to. You are still a Barbarian, and can have more than one AMF ready. Oh, and with the graft, you have mundane flight.

This may be cheating, but my favorite wizard killer is a Binder focused on Zceryll. You take that feat that lets you use it every four rounds, then KotSS has some tasty stuff, IIRC, so you book dive into something that works. You should have enough other abilities to survive long enough. I mean, you have Wall of Stone near at will, you have effectively invisibility at will, you should be golden, unless the Wizard is playing the cards that make you lose no matter who you are.

[Aegis013]

Backtracking to the Summon Monster issue.
You could get something like an item of Perfect Summons spell. (Book of Exalted Deeds)

I know your build isn't exactly super good, but you've got about a 1/3 chance he'll be good. 2/3 chance to screw up his summon isn't too bad, although it's probably not the best counter measure and I'm sure those better at optimization can think of something more reliable.

[NimbleNZ]

Backtracking to the Summon Monster issue.
You could get something like an item of Perfect Summons spell. (Book of Exalted Deeds)

I know your build isn't exactly super good, but you've got about a 1/3 chance he'll be good. 2/3 chance to screw up his summon isn't too bad, although it's probably not the best counter measure and I'm sure those better at optimization can think of something more reliable.

unfortunately, any monster he summons will likely appear before i get my turn.

but if its not too pricey it could be worth having in case he summons after i get a chance to move, thanks

[NimbleNZ]

No clue. Where is this?


actually, scratch that it seems it was a 3.0 feat and doesnt exist in 3.5. bloody dandwiki. it gets my hope us everytime...and then turns out to be homebrew :(

i will definately play as the rune scarred berserker, thank you :smallsmile:

[kulosle]

so i've just been following this as like a kid reads a bible. its a good story that mom and dad take too seriously. well i decided that its been way to long and no one has mentioned skill tricks. they are in the complete scoundrel and cost 2 skill points, you can have 1/2 of your level of them. there is one that makes it so you can make a turn in a charge, one to see invisibility, one to escape grapples as a swift action, one to attack anyone who you get out of a grapple with. stand up from prone for free, stand up from prone without provoking AoO. never out number goes great with the imperious command feat. cower all of his summons. there are ways of intimidating things that are immune to fear as well although i can't remember any of them at the moment AFB. so many things take a look.

also i would like to second the wendigo idea that was suggested last time. they are only weak to fire, plenty of ways around that, and they have perfect maneuverability from a non-limb source at a crazy fast speed, and can go ethereal IIRC. it's an amazing build. also can lower a wizards wisdom. take a look at it, it's in the fiend folio. and if LA buyoffs are allowed there is absolutely no reason why not.

most of all don't give up. the day that someone finally makes a build that can always takes down a wizard, millions of people will cry out in joy and all the wizards will be crying in their spell books. i love this excessive an want it to continue. thanks for the enjoyable story.


Shou Disciple: Among other things, grants, at 3rd level, the ability to flurry with any light weapons. Natural Weapons are light

as a side note is there a final verdict out there that says how this works with TWF and how many attacks i get?

[Killer Angel]

...i think i may have to discontinue this exercise. i was just looking at a thread where they were debating a wizard 20 VS every ship in the star wars galaxy. and the wizard WON!

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=177150


A funny reading, indeed. :smallbiggrin:
But the SW galaxy wasn't fighting a wizard. It was fighting a Emperor Tippy's wizard. :smalltongue:

[NimbleNZ]

most of all don't give up. the day that someone finally makes a build that can always takes down a wizard, millions of people will cry out in joy and all the wizards will be crying in their spell books. i love this excessive an want it to continue. thanks for the enjoyable story.

your words are like a balm unto to my soul :smallbiggrin:

thanks for the info about skill tricks, i never thought of that. also, i'll try the wendigo idea; i think the LA is pretty high, but if i would otherwise be spending those levels unlocking class abilities that the wendigo has anyway then its worth it.

I think this poem sums up my attitude and what i am trying to do here:

Wizards to the right of him,
sorcerers to the left of him,
gated beasts in front of him
  Volley'd and thunder'd;
Storm'd with searing orb and talon,
Boldly he rode and well,
Into the maw of chaos,
Into the forcecage from Hell
  Rode the lone warrior.

apologies to any poetry lovers out there. the actual and much better version of tennyson's poem can be found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Charge_of_the_Light_Brigade_%28poem%29

[Gavinfoxx]

There is a graft in one of the dragon magazines that gives you Ex flight, so you don't need to be evil for the fiendish graft... Zelekhut Wings, Dragon Magazine #315.

There's also a dragon wing graft in Races of the Dragon.

[NNescio]

so i've just been following this as like a kid reads a bible. its a good story that mom and dad take too seriously. well i decided that its been way to long and no one has mentioned skill tricks. they are in the complete scoundrel and cost 2 skill points, you can have 1/2 of your level of them. there is one that makes it so you can make a turn in a charge, one to see invisibility, one to escape grapples as a swift action, one to attack anyone who you get out of a grapple with. stand up from prone for free, stand up from prone without provoking AoO. never out number goes great with the imperious command feat. cower all of his summons. there are ways of intimidating things that are immune to fear as well although i can't remember any of them at the moment AFB. so many things take a look?

Just be aware that skill tricks can only be used once each per encounter.



I think this poem sums up my attitude and what i am trying to do here:

Wizards to the right of him,
sorcerers to the left of him,
gated beasts in front of him
  Volley'd and thunder'd;
Storm'd with searing orb and talon,
Boldly he rode and well,
Into the maw of chaos,
Into the forcecage from Hell
  Rode the lone warrior.

*groan*

Leaving aside the brutal... mauling of Tennyson's poetry meter and rhythm (dactylic dimeter), you certainly couldn't pick a less fortuitous example, considering how the Charge of the Light Brigade ended up. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_of_the_Light_Brigade)

Or, as a certain French marshall puts it:

"C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre. C'est de la folie."

"It is magnificent, but it is not war. It is madness."

[Little Brother]

There is a graft in one of the dragon magazines that gives you Ex flight, so you don't need to be evil for the fiendish graft... Zelekhut Wings, Dragon Magazine #315.

There's also a dragon wing graft in Races of the Dragon.The Buffeting Wings are absurdly expensive, the Feaethered ones are 10,000.

Also, all you need is a decent save, and you can be any alignment you want.

[CactusAir]

With just its core its slightly more balanced than 3.5,

Kindly stop lying. Pathfinder has always been less balanced than 3.5. Pathfinder gave buffs to the already powerful wizard and sorcerer, and shot already useless melee characters in the face even more by splitting up key melee feats into more expensive feat chains and severely nerfing power attack.

Sure, Clerics and Druids are slightly toned down, but reducing Guy A from 55 million bucks to 50, while taking away 10,000 bucks from Guy B, who only had 50,000 to begin with.... makes for less fairness, not more.

[NimbleNZ]

{Scrubbed}

[Fortuna]

Kindly stop lying. Pathfinder has always been less balanced than 3.5. Pathfinder gave buffs to the already powerful wizard and sorcerer, and shot already useless melee characters in the face even more by splitting up key melee feats into more expensive feat chains and severely nerfing power attack.

Sure, Clerics and Druids are slightly toned down, but reducing Guy A from 55 million bucks to 50, while taking away 10,000 bucks from Guy B, who only had 50,000 to begin with.... makes for less fairness, not more.

I wouldn't assume lying.

Then again, I would assume sarcasm, but I'm probably a poor benchmark for civilised discussion. :P

[candycorn]

Using Diamond mind maneuvers to boost saves is good.

RELYING on them is bad.

As they are immediate actions, you are limited to one per round. If someone uses, say, quickened spells, they'll catch you out of immediate actions.

Add on that swordsages really suck for recovering maneuvers, and if such a caster were to target the same save a few times... well, you'd be in a jam.