The Binding of Isaac: Slaying mother in the playground!

[Wings of Peace]

Hey you! Yeah you! Do you like a challenging game? I mean a REALLY challenging game? Then you're in the right place.

The Binding of Isaac is a top-down 2d shooter designed by Edmund McMillen and Florian Himsl. Highlights of the game are it's dark overarching storyline and unique art style that fans of Super Meat Boy will recognize immediately.

There are other features worth mentioning, like the massive catalog of items or how each play-through is randomly generated creating a new experience each time. Instead, lets talk about the game's real strong point. It's hard. We're talking hard as defined by the 80s arcade machines that abused children for their quarters like a father with a bad crack habit and anger management problems.

The game is available on Steam (http://store.steampowered.com/app/113200/) for $4.99. However, act now and the game can be acquired for a few cents less as part of the Humble Bundle (http://www.humblebundle.com/), just be sure to donate the average if you want to receive The Binding of Isaac (along with two other games).

Now that the introductions are out of the way, has anyone else played the game? If so, share your stories of attempted or even successful matricide!

[Lunix Vandal]

Instead, lets talk about the game's real strong point. It's hard. We're talking hard as defined by the 80s arcade machines that abused children for their lives like a morbidly obese mother with a knife and schizophrenic delusions.Fix'd. Because that's what the game's about, yo. :smallwink:

I just KO'd Mother for the first time last night, myself. Haven't yet played through the level after that to a full matricide, though.

... Is it at all strange that I unlocked Magdalene, Cain, and Eve before my first Mother KO? Said KO was even accomplished using Eve -- and without triggering Hoe of Babylon, at that. Even had an unused 1-Up 'Shroom trailing along behind me all through Depths I and II. (Picking up the PHD and using pills to max my speed, firerate, and range probably helped. Never did get my power back up above minimum once that Depths I Thin 'Shroom overrode my Basement I Super 'Shroom, though.)

DEM SHROOMS, MAAAAN.

[Wings of Peace]

I've only beaten the game twice so far. I've unlocked everybody but Eve and the Secret dude. Eve is mostly because Demon doors hate me for some reason.

There have been a lot more times I thought I was going to win but the game turned that confidence against me. Like the time I had a Battery + the item that grants soul hearts. Man I felt stupid for dying with that combo.

[Hyudra]

Beat the game 7 times so far. One specific 'reward' for winning the game (the sixth one) has slowed me down a smidge.

A few tips. Not specifically spoilery, but it may be stuff you want to discover yourself:

Secret rooms. They can be found by bombing a wall where a door would be. Secret rooms are most likely to be found in the nooks where there's 3 or more rooms bordering it.
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So if the black squares are rooms, it's worth bombing the walls at the top row (in the middle of the 'fork') to try and find a secret room. They contain anything from a slot machine to coins to an item.
Secret rooms mk II. Secret rooms, in my observation, are more likely to crop up in spaces with more rooms bordering them. So if you've got an empty space with 4 rooms bordering it and an empty space with 3, and only one bomb to spare, I'd go for the former.
Items that recur in shops can really make or break the game. The best, in my observation? Ladder & Treasure Map/compass. Ladder can make you immune to some of the most annoying enemies (such as the Knights; enemies that are invincible from the front - just stand over a pit and be patient in blasting them) and gets you more hearts/coins/treasure boxes from areas you'd be unable to access. Treasure map relates to the next point.
When you reach the womb, your best bet is getting to mom ASAP. While exploring and clearing the entire level is your best bet pre-womb, it's a terrible idea in the womb because the difficulty of the enemies and the chance of finding worthwhile rooms is very low (Only 2 rooms will appear of the following: Shop, casino, treasure room, miniboss room, gauntlet).
You can get extended sprees going at a casino. Use excess hearts to get coins which buy you rolls on the slot machine, which can get you more hearts. Chances are this is going to give you a lot of bombs, a lot of keys, or an item, before you run out. Especially if any of the secret rooms you found had a bunch of coins in them
Dealing with mom's heart: I suggest killing the eyes she spawns with ASAP, then dropping a bomb at the base. If there's no minions on the screen, the heart waits a few seconds, then spawns more. If you drop a bomb just below the heart, you'll blow up the minions... drop another bomb as they die, she drops another set... they blow up. It's a virtually harmless way to get her low. Just be careful as she reaches 50%, because she'll start lobbing bombs at you for 1 heart of damage per hit. If you have a lot of firepower and/or a lot of health, you can potentially outlast this, but I suggest circling around her and avoiding the things.
Interesting note, if you have the vampire's bite (heals you ½ a ♥ for every 13 enemies you kill), you can farm globins (the meaty guys who dissolve into a pile of meat) for kills to heal yourself. Leave one alive, beat him into a pile of mush with 1-2 hits, wait, repeat.

[Cieyrin]

Hope your Binding thread outlasts mine (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218174), perhaps a wittier name and more than me and Jair Barik posting would do for its longevity.

So, how about that Halloween update, eh? :smallamused:

[Hyudra]

I made the mistake of quitting too soon after unlocking Eve, and it didn't commit, so I don't have her unlocked.

Last few runs have been unlucky, too.

[Jahkaivah]

Isaaaaaaac~

ISAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAC

I've managed to kill Mom once so far. Of course the game has a wonderful habit of getting longer the more times you "complete" it.

The compass is one of the more useful items for that as it allows you to just focus on the necessities (power-up room, then straight to boss).

And my most amusing death so far is spending more hearts than I had to give with the Devil, I wasn't aware at the time that soul hearts didn't count.

[Hyudra]

At one point I had something like 25 soul hearts (I'm 90% certain that even if you can't see them all, they continue to build up) and 2 regular hearts. I opted to trade those 2 regular hearts, thinking I could get by on soul hearts.

Only it took all my soul hearts. No hearts, no soul hearts, died on next hit.

[Cieyrin]

At one point I had something like 25 soul hearts (I'm 90% certain that even if you can't see them all, they continue to build up) and 2 regular hearts. I opted to trade those 2 regular hearts, thinking I could get by on soul hearts.

Only it took all my soul hearts. No hearts, no soul hearts, died on next hit.

Huh, I was under the impression that you could trade in soul hearts at a higher exchange rate for devil gifts, not just lose them all in trade....

[Hyudra]

I think the way it works is that if you trade in all your regular hearts, you lose all your soul hearts too. Fairly binary in that respect.

[Cieyrin]

I think the way it works is that if you trade in all your regular hearts, you lose all your soul hearts too. Fairly binary in that respect.

No, no, I meant that you could trade soul hearts in place of regulars. I know that if you trade in all your regulars you'll die, regardless that they're changed into soul hearts. It's just that if you have soul hearts previous to the bargain, I thought you could exchange those in place of regulars. At least, that was what Jair was saying in the previous BoI thread and also supported by the wiki, though the in-game Devil Room makes no such suggestions.

[Hyudra]

You can't, unforunately, trade soul hearts when it's asking for regular ones. not without bad stuff occurring.

[Jair Barik]

You can however trade down to 0 hearts whilst you have soul hearts left. Do this with the whore of babylon item for maximum hilarity.

Anyone know the criteria for reaching the final floor? I went their once before the patch and the game bugged out on the final boss (final boss for reals this time) and when I beat level 8 this time the door didn't appear, only the chest. Which was a shame as I was rocking things up with Dr Fetus, lvl3 meat boy more damage ups than was healthy, ghost shots a screen of blue hearts pretty much every utility poer up (ladder, map, compass) a halo of 3 flies and more.

[Hyudra]

Reaching the final floor?

To reach Mom, you need to just progress down.

To reach Mom's Heart, you need to beat mom, then in another playthrough, progress two additional floors down through the womb.

To reach the Halloween Update boss, you need to beat Mom's Heart 9 or 10 times, then progress through the (hell?) levels to reach him.

Not easy, because when you beat the game the 6th time:
You get "Everything's Terrible!" which makes the game harder. Higher chance to have more enemies in rooms, denser rooms, and higher chance to spawn colored/upgraded enemies.

[Jair Barik]

Yeah the strange thing was that I entered the halloween floor twice already but when I beat the heart the most recent time the demon room with the hatch to the hell levels didn't appear.

[Wings of Peace]

Out of curiosity, does anyone have a preferred character? I find I tend to do best with Magdalene since I can dodge pretty well so the extra heart becomes spare money for making pacts.

[Hyudra]

I'd say of my 7 runs, 4 were with Judas. He's been my go-to guy, though I've changed to Isaac now that I'm trying to unlock Eve (again). Isaac starts with a bomb, which means you can usually get the secret room on the first floor, which isn't always possible, what with unreliable drops and whatnot.

Health is easier to come by than damage, and if you're ok at dealing with the early bosses, you'll find that the extra damage & damage from Book of Belial makes you last longer, since dead enemies do less overall harm to you.

[Jahkaivah]

then progress through the (hell?) levels to reach him.


I believe the game refers to it as Sheol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheol).



Out of curiosity, does anyone have a preferred character? I find I tend to do best with Magdalene since I can dodge pretty well so the extra heart becomes spare money for making pacts.

I've only unlocked Magdalene so far, and I prefer to stick with Isaac since he is more of a clean slate. That way I have to work with what I am given which I find more enjoyable than having a really useful power to begin with.

That said, I hate it when the pills do bad stuff when I take them so I might be tempted to play Cain when I unlock him.

[Cieyrin]

I actually unlocked Cain in my 1st or 2nd time playing by getting a dollar from one of the slot machines. He's quite nice, though I never did figure out the exact effect of the Lucky Foot. I figure it increases the chances of rare drops or something.

[Hyudra]

Lucky Foot, as I understand it, keeps you from getting bad pill effects (negative pills like 'you lose health' become good ones 'you gain max/full health'), while helping you with slot machines and skull games.

It may increase your chance to apply stuff like the radioactive spider/common cold/mom's contact effects.

Edit Oh man, I'm so ticked.

Finished the game once more, unlocking Eve in the process. Got the wafer unlocked, Eve, jezebel mark, crow, etc.

Then finished the game with eve. Got money = power, razor blade, 8th win.

Knowing the game sometimes takes a while to save, I played again, getting to 1st Mom before dying. Figuring it was safe, I quit.

Just checked, and none of that was preserved.

[Wings of Peace]

Is it just me or do Demon Doors appear less now that Eve is around? I used to get doors much more frequently on high hp characters like Magdalene it seems like.

[Hyudra]

If anything, I think I've been noticing them more.

I may be wrong, but I think demon doors appear more often when you have high health and/or take little to no damage in the course of the boss fight. I'd say they appear between 1/3rd to 1/2 the time if I kill a boss without taking damage. Maybe 25% of the time if I've lost a half heart.

[Dumbledore lives]

Is it just me or do Demon Doors appear less now that Eve is around? I used to get doors much more frequently on high hp characters like Magdalene it seems like.

From what I understand and have observed demon doors appear when you beat a boss without taking a hit, but I could be wrong.

I greatly enjoy this game, and have beaten it several times. I think my best run through was sacrificing just about all my full hearts for bonuses, while still having like 20 soul hearts, so being fine. I didn't even know how many I had until the final boss, when I actually lost enough to see that I had like 8. I swear though pills never work well for me, always either bad stuff or useless stuff if I happen to have the professor. Oh well, still really fun game that I could play for a long time still.

Also is is just me or are teleporters or any kind the most useless object in the game?

[Jahkaivah]

Just had a run where I brought Brimstone.

Holy crap, that thing is worth far more than just one heart.

[Hyudra]

Trouble with Brimstone is that it doesn't benefit from scads of other items.

[Jahkaivah]

Trouble with Brimstone is that it doesn't benefit from scads of other items.

Thing is practically worth a whole scad of items in itself.

[Hyudra]

I don't disagree.

But if I got tears, mom's contact, the inner eye and maxed out attack speed, I wouldn't jump to grab Brimstone.

[Pie Guy]

Brimstone with brother and sister? I made it all the way to Mom without realizing how fast I was killing everything.

[Jahkaivah]

I just had a shot at playing as Eve.

I died, to Wrath.

How the hell did I managed that!?

[Wings of Peace]

Brimstone with brother and sister? I made it all the way to Mom without realizing how fast I was killing everything.

Just wait till you get Brimstone and Chocolate Milk together. :smallamused:

[The Shadowmind]

Okay first play through(well third life, but first two was trying to fix lag problems) go to the Depth II, beat Sloth and he dropped Bob's rotten head, went to pick it up and put down the Shovel to use the Head to try and find the secret room. Glitched. Stuck in the Get Item pose and can't do anything but move. No bombs, brimstone shoots, pills, anything but walk around. I of course die in the next room with nothing but a pretty fly to do damage. Well unlocked Eve at least.

Second play-through, this time with Eve again got to Depth II and got to fight Mom before dieing. Notable events, got the Dollar twice and unlocked Cain.

[Lunix Vandal]

Just wait till you get Brimstone and Chocolate Milk together. :smallamused:This was what my first experience with Brimstone was, circa yesterday afternoon. Yay (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLTZctTG6cE) for deoxygenated/chocomilk-infused blood beam spam. (Though part of that may have been residual blue tint from the three range-up pills I got.)

Also, for the lulz, I picked up both The Pact and The Bible that run, and instakilled both fights with Mom, unlocking Judas in the process.

[The Shadowmind]

Beat Mom's heart for the second time, this time without the Bible, and the Satan door appeared, walked in and there was a trap door to Sheol appeared. I entered it and worked my way to Satan, then killed him without mercy. I had Brimstone/Book of revelations/Battery/Meatboy v3 so I was Death, Destroyer of worlds.

[Zejety]

I've got to Satan for the first time a few days ago. I did not kill Mom's heart often enough on that computer but I found a trap door in the devil's room.

So it was a once in-a-while chance to kill him.
I was brimstoning my way through the mass of bosses that is the last stage and picked up Bob's Rotten Head.
Now a few of you will know what happened next.

When the final fight began, I hit space and hold the Rotten Head above my own and then... nothing.

It turned out that the combination of Brimstone and Bob's Rotten Head is bugged. Once you hold that head, neither you can throw it not fire your normal/Brimstone shots!

Maybe leaving the room fixes that but there was no way to do that during the battle.

:smallfrown:

[Jahkaivah]

Trolling 101: Make an incredibly overpowered and thus desired ability which is bugged to make the player completely useless in certain situations.

[Hyudra]

So I fixed the bug that prevented my saves from working. Beat the game for the 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th and 11th times.

The 11th run was hilariously OP. The kind of stuff you dream of.
I got the Wafer as ???? on basement 1, reducing all damage to 1/2. Then I picked up Brimstone and the nail on basement 2. Each normally costs 2-3 hearts, but they were reduced to only 1/2 by the wafer. Since I also beat Time Fcuk's Steven on floor 2, I got the 'Steven' floating baby with fast fire & homing shots.

Consequently, I cleared the caves without taking damage. As it happens, this also bought me time to stack soul hearts via. the nail. Downhill from there.

In the same run, I beat Sheol. Neither Satan X nor the Mom boss fights even appeared to do damage - I had enough soul hearts (15+) that I never took enough damage to go below 10 or however many appear on the screen.

By the time I was up against Satan X, I had robo-baby, maggie, steven and the rotating meat head for turret-style damage. I also had mini-chad, the relic, the belt and the 8volt, among other things.