Optimizing Inspire Courage

[Zombimode]

How can you increase the IC bonus?
I know of Words of Creation, but doubling the breathtaking IC +1 of my E6 bard isnt all that impressive.

Any feats, items, class features or any thing that increases IC?

[Curious]

Song of the Heart adds another +1, I believe, and a common tactic is to use Dragonfire Inspiration to exchange all your bonuses for +xd6 to damage.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Melodic Casting feat in Complete Mage: You can cast spells while inspiring, make Perform checks instead of Concentration checks for casting.

Song of the Heart feat in Eberron Campaign Setting: +1 Inspire Courage.

Badge of Valor item in Magic Item Compendium: Spend an Immediate Action to increase your active Inspire Courage by another +1.

Inspirational Boost spell in Spell Compendium: Swift Action your next Inspire Courage is increased by another +1.

Dragonfire Inspiration feat in Dragon Magic: Your +X Inspire Courage attack/damage bonus is switched to +Xd6 fire damage instead, if you have Draconic Heritage (requires Dragontouched feat or Sorcerer levels) you can get a different type of energy damage instead of fire.

Words of Creation feat in Book of Exalted Deeds: Doubles your Inspire Courage bonus, all of the above except the Badge of Valor bonus can be applied first before the total is doubled.

A Bard 3 can get +4 Inspire Courage, or a +4d6 Dragonfire Inspiration. With Words of Creation it goes up to +7, or +7d6. At 8th level with Words of Creation it goes up to +9, or +9d6.

[tyckspoon]

Song of the Heart: Feat, Eberron Campaign Setting, increases pretty much every Bardic Music effect by +1.
Inspirational Boost: Spell, 1st level, Swift, Spell Compendium. Increases Inspire Courage by +1 if used immediately before starting to perform.
Badge of Valor: Item, fairly inexpensive, Magic Item Compendium. 3/day Immediate action increases the Inspire Courage you just used by +1.
Vest of Legends: Item, possibly too expensive/high level for E6, Dungeon Master's Guide II. Increases bard level by 5 for purposes of Inspire Courage/some other Bardic Music effects.

How all this stuff interacts with Words of Creation is unclear, but IMO:
Song of the Heart increases your base value and should be included, so you'd get to +4 just from that.
Inspirational Boost depends on if your DM thinks Words of Creation happens when you start the song or if it applies to your base value only. If it happens at start of performance, then Inspirational Boost applies, because you cast it before you start Inspiring. If it's just base, then the bonus happens after.
Badge of Valor cannot be included in Words of Creation's doubling, because the action timing simply doesn't allow it- the immediate action has to happen after you start inspiring, so it can't be part of your base and it can't be active at the time you use Inspire Courage.

[Little Brother]

You can also give up crap like Inspire Competence for a bonus feat, like Song of the Heart. Sweet deal, really.

[Keld Denar]

You can't swap Inspire Competance for Songs of the Heart, because Inspire Competance IS a prereq for Songs of the Heart. You COULD swap out Suggestion, though, if you so chose.

Also, its not really that clear WHAT gets multiplied from Words of Creation. I've seen readings that state that only your base IC is multiplied, and readings that state that its base + SotH, or base + SotH + Ins Boost. Generally you don't see the Badge of Valor multiplied, but I've seen some people try to claim it.

[Zombimode]

Thanks to all for the quick and detailed answers :smallsmile:


You can't swap Inspire Competance for Songs of the Heart, because Inspire Competance IS a prereq for Songs of the Heart.

Damn. So much for my plan to be a bard with only one level of bard :smallfrown:

[Socratov]

usually it depends on the order you activate them... I'm not sure inspirational boost (the swift variant from Spell Compendium) and badge of valor can be used in unison (swift+immedeate action together?) but if it can you can do the following: insp. normal->boost->badge->SotH->words of creation->focused performance(dragon mag, double bonus for 1 person) will give you:

(1+1+1+1)*(2+1)= +12 for 3d4 non lethal dmg and 2 bardic music uses (gotta make the proper perform check though)

[Keld Denar]

You CAN activate both IB and BoV in the same "round". You cast IB as your swift action in round 1, activate IC as your standard action in round one, and then you "end your turn". Immediately after your turn is over, activate the BoV as an immediate action (using round 2's swift action) and you are good to go.

Even still, I'm not convinced that WoC would affect anything more than your base IC, even the bonus from SotH is suspect and its passive. Reread WoC yourself and tell me what you think. Most things in D&D key off "base" attributes when multiplying.

[Curious]

Something interesting for players who include PF material; the Dawnflower Dervish (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo---bard-archetypes/dawnflower-dervish) archetype for Bard doubles the bonuse provided by IC, although they only apply to yourself. Combined with Words of Creation, Song of the Heart, and Dragonfire Inspiration, well. . .
By level 7 you're getting +12d6 damage to every attack you make.

[JaronK]

The main benefit of Dragonfire Inspiration is that you can then stack multiple bardic effects. Normally two Bards doing Inspire Courage only results in the better of the two being seen, but if one uses DI, they both work (since it's a different bonus). A group of many Bards all using different DIs (due to different heritages) can buff the heck out of an army.

JaronK

[Lateral]

The main benefit of Dragonfire Inspiration is that you can then stack multiple bardic effects. Normally two Bards doing Inspire Courage only results in the better of the two being seen, but if one uses DI, they both work (since it's a different bonus). A group of many Bards all using different DIs (due to different heritages) can buff the heck out of an army.

JaronK
Well, with an army, generally the normal Inspire Courage bonuses are better- when most of your enemies only have a few hit dice, but most of them have decent armor and so a decent AC, the boost from Inspire Courage is much more useful than the extra damage from Dragonfire Inspiration.

Also, you can't get the +5 Will save requirement for WoC as a Bard 3; to get it as your 3rd level feat, you need to dip a class with a good Will save- Bard 2/Cleric 1 or something.

[Keld Denar]

I believe JaronK was insinuating that you'd have additional bards stacking DFI on TOP if traditional IC, not instead of it.

[JaronK]

Precisely. When I do large army in D&D, I almost always have a bard command core that's got one regular Bard with Masterwork War Drums, one regular Bard with regular War Drums, and 5 Kobold Dragonfire Inspiration Bards with War Drums (one each for fire, cold, electricity, acid, and sonic). Masterwork War Drums lower the will save benefit but give an additional Inspire Courage bonus (plus these things can be heard for miles) so the overall effect even from level 1 Bards is that everyone in the army gets +2 to hit and damage, +10d6 elemental damage, and a +1 bonus to certain saves. Combined with something as simple as Commoners using the Volley Fire rules from Complete Warrior and you can do some really devastating attacks.

JaronK

[CactusAir]

Melodic casting is a trap. Few bardic musics are worth concentrating on anyway, and if you want to make perform checks to concentrate, use undersong.

The best item for a bard is a Use Activated Masterwork Lute of Harmonize, which, depending on your DM, could be available for as low as 16,000 gp, and let you start bardic music as a move action.

Remember, BM buffs last 5 rounds after you stop playing, 10 with lingering song. So you may as well activate both Inspire Courage and Inspire greatness in round 1. Or Inspire courage and cast Haste.

[Coidzor]

Damn. So much for my plan to be a bard with only one level of bard :smallfrown:

Heartfire Fanner's better for this, anyway. But you can't access that PrC at all in E6.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

For E6, there's not much reason not to go (Savage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#bardVariantSavageBard) ) Bard 6, considering the capstone feat gives you 8th level Inspire Courage and you'll be able to throw around Glitterdust. Just one level of Bard cuts you out of +6 BAB, so unless you're multiclassing it with something that gets 3rd level spells in five levels (or Kobold Sorcerer), your best bet is to stick with Bard. Your daily uses of bardic music are equal to your bard class level, so 1/day Inspire Courage is hardly worth optimizing unless you want to dump feats into Extra Music.

I'd go Silverbrow Human, Savage Bard 6, with Melodic Casting (1), Dragonfire Inspiration (1), Song of the Heart (3), Words of Creation (6), and the E6 Bard capstone feat at your first bonus feat, with a Badge of Valor and Inspirational Boost. At 6th level +1 feat your Inspire Courage will add +9d6 fire damage to everyone's attacks. You can stay at the back casting buffs or using a shortbow, which also benefits from the extra damage. Get Lingering Song and you can Inspirational Boost + Inspire Courage for +8 attack/damage, then the following round stop that song and Inspirational Boost + Dragonfire Inspiration + Badge of Valor to grant +9d6 fire damage, and everyone will still the that +8 attack/damage for ten rounds. I'd even get a Wild Cohort (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) that gets three attacks/round such as a (honey) badger, use Handle Animal to make it a Warbeast (MM2), and see if you can get Enrage Animal instead of Calm Animals on the Savage Bard spell list.

[Zombimode]

Heartfire Fanner's better for this, anyway. But you can't access that PrC at all in E6.

Source for Heartfire Fanner?
It doesnt ring any bells and the Prestige Class Index at WotC shows no results.

If it can be entered it depends. The DM has lowered the skill and bab requirements for all PrC about 2 to a minimum of 6 ranks / bab +3. (And Im talking about myself in the third person here.)

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Source for Heartfire Fanner?
It doesnt ring any bells and the Prestige Class Index at WotC shows no results.

If it can be entered it depends. The DM has lowered the skill and bab requirements for all PrC about 2 to a minimum of 6 ranks / bab +3. (And Im talking about myself in the third person here.)

It appears to be from Dragon magazine 314, page 23. (http://www.aeolia.net/dragondex/articles-subject.html)

[Coidzor]

Source for Heartfire Fanner?
It doesnt ring any bells and the Prestige Class Index at WotC shows no results.

If it can be entered it depends. The DM has lowered the skill and bab requirements for all PrC about 2 to a minimum of 6 ranks / bab +3. (And Im talking about myself in the third person here.)

If BG were still up, you could check the handbook, but you can doublecheck the source with the wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prestige_classes#Dragon_magazine). Dragon 314.