Court Wizards

[Anderlith]

So I was thinking about making a character that was a wizard in service to a Baron or someother lower noble. I found that the wizard however does not have any social skills whatsoever. Now I know that people min max wizards until they are ubermench, & that adding another facet to their abilities will make them all the more annoying. I was wondering if the playground has however seen any wizard variant or other base class that would fall in line with this character idea.

[Yora]

What exactly do you have in mind? A wizard who is also an advisor to a lord?

[Anderlith]

What exactly do you have in mind? A wizard who is also an advisor to a lord?

Yes. He is a wizard that works for the lord, advising & casting spells & whatnot. He may or may not be apprenticed to another more powerful wizard.

[Yora]

I think the key is mostly to put a lot of ranks into knowledge skills and possibly profession (administration) or something like that.
With their big Intelligence scores and few need for skills, there are quite some skill points to put into them.
If he should also serve as an ambassador of his lord, it gets more complicated, as he would have need of Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Sense Motive, and possibly Intimidate as well, which would quickly eat up a lot skill points.

[flumphy]

If you're set on wizard, there's an enchanter variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#enchanterVariants) in UA that gives social skills as class skills. There are also ways to get those skills via the apprentice or martial study feats.

If you go bard->sublime chord, you're basically a bard-flavored sorcerer. Or if you're okay with the drop in power, even just good old bard would fit the concept perfectly. Beguiler is another specialized caster that could fit the archetype.

Or, if Dragon Compedium is on the table, you could look at Sha'ir. They're practically obligated to max diplomacy.

[Anderlith]

I think the key is mostly to put a lot of ranks into knowledge skills and possibly profession (administration) or something like that.
With their big Intelligence scores and few need for skills, there are quite some skill points to put into them.
If he should also serve as an ambassador of his lord, it gets more complicated, as he would have need of Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Sense Motive, and possibly Intimidate as well, which would quickly eat up a lot skill points.
I would be a social character & in need of the social skills

If you're set on wizard, there's an enchanter variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#enchanterVariants) in UA that gives social skills as class skills. There are also ways to get those skills via the apprentice or martial study feats.

If you go bard->sublime chord, you're basically a bard-flavored sorcerer. Or if you're okay with the drop in power, even just good old bard would fit the concept perfectly. Beguiler is another specialized caster that could fit the archetype.

Or, if Dragon Compedium is on the table, you could look at Sha'ir. They're practically obligated to max diplomacy.
I don't like singing spellcasters, & I found the beguiler too roguish. I try to find this Sha'ir

[Wyntonian]

I'm AFB, but if you were already planning to maybe be apprenticed to someone, you could take some apprentice feat and gain those skills that you want as class skills. Dunno which one it would be. Also, I'd get plenty of abjuration spells, work on that bodyguard aspect of being a court wizard.

[Psyren]

"Court wizard" is actually the default fluff of Shugenja, despite being divine. They're very social too, being Cha-focused and having diplomacy in-class. They're roughly T3 and very easy to play.

[umbergod]

as stated before the enchanter specialist variant in the UA is a good way to get social skills. Just don't bar abjuration, as I see a court wizard as primarily casting defensive and divination spells to help his lord succeed in all matters, whether wartime or economical

[Anderlith]

I was thinking of being the guy that socializes with all the nobles & hobnobs with the aristocrats, whilst using magic to make my lord prosperous. Kind of like a Magocrat... this should be a class...

Enchanter seems the way to go

[umbergod]

I was thinking of being the guy that socializes with all the nobles & hobnobs with the aristocrats, whilst using magic to make my lord prosperous. Kind of like a Magocrat... this should be a class...

Enchanter seems the way to go

Definitely, enchanter is a perfect court wizard. With a fairly decent INT score, you can spread your skill points around. No reason to max them as long as you have a 12-14 in charisma

[JohnDaBarr]

try Unseen Seer (Complete Mage), he gets all you need

Edit:
Its better to take a lvl of Rogue but you can meet the prerequisites by taking the Able Learner feat.

Best's spell's for Advanced Learning are: Divine Insight or Hunter's Eye

[Vowtz]

Alternative ways to get new Class skills(in your case, diplomacy, bluff, sense motive, gather information):

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19860850/Alternative_ways_to_get_new_Class_skills

[Anderlith]

Tell me if I read this right, with martial study I get a maneuver plus a class skill?

[flumphy]

Tell me if I read this right, with martial study I get a maneuver plus a class skill?

Correct. Keep in mind that you still have to qualify for the maneuver you choose.

[Vowtz]

Tell me if I read this right, with martial study I get a maneuver plus a class skill?Yes, a maneuver plus a class skill for all your classes, but not any skill, the discipline's key skill.

[Anderlith]

Yes, a maneuver plus a class skill for all your classes, but not any skill, the discipline's key skill.

I understand that, I was just asking about the maneuver, because using that to get Bolstering Voice would be kind of cool

[Anderlith]

Correct. Keep in mind that you still have to qualify for the maneuver you choose.

Where do I find the prereqs?

[Coidzor]

Where do I find the prereqs?

Below level and above initiation action, at leas on the maneuver cards (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20061225a) available from WOTC.

[Glimbur]

You could also consider Beguiler from PHB II. They don't get the flashy fireballs and such of a wizard, but they do get sneaky magic and mind magic and, crucially, 6+ skill points/level and a skill list that looks like a rogue and a wizard had a baby. They're also Int focused so they should have many skill points to throw around.

[Anderlith]

You could also consider Beguiler from PHB II. They don't get the flashy fireballs and such of a wizard, but they do get sneaky magic and mind magic and, crucially, 6+ skill points/level and a skill list that looks like a rogue and a wizard had a baby. They're also Int focused so they should have many skill points to throw around.

The sneakiness is what I don't want. Plus a wizards got to have a little flash to impress the ladies at court

[Toliudar]

Dipping a level of beguiler at the start of your wizardly career gets you a bunch more skill points, class skills and opens you up for a great Ultimate Magus combo with wizard. Beguiler is only rogue-ish if you want it to be. I've played beguilers who are academics, soldiers and street performers.

[Zonugal]

Doesn't matter how it ends up but you know what your familiar has to be...

http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsG/6806-362.jpg

[Coidzor]

The sneakiness is what I don't want. Plus a wizards got to have a little flash to impress the ladies at court

Flash? Evocation is the only fully safe school to ban for a court wizard enchanter.

[Ravens_cry]

The way I see it, a courtly wizard fulfils a variety of functions within a court. They can be advisers and lore-masters, giving key insights into various topic and situations, they can be a kind of bodyguard and taste tester, checking for poison in food and safe guarding their lord from magical threats. They also can put out not insignificant offensive capabilities in case of an incursion. They even can provide entertainment in the form of illusions and other magic.
But because of this versatility, you have to be very sure that you can trust them, because there is none like a wizard for stabbing you in the back, figuratively of course.
They can even arrange things so you don't even realize it.

[Anderlith]

Flash? Evocation is the only fully safe school to ban for a court wizard enchanter.

I'd like to have things like, Continual Flame, Tenser's Floating Disk, Wind Wall & Darkness, then anything in Necromancy

[Ravens_cry]

As much as I hate it from a gameplay perspective, I hate spells that say "No, you can't play that now.", Wind Wall is certainly excellent from a "Protect your Liege" standpoint.
Most of the flash to impress and entertain the court, however, can be done much more safely and potentially even more spectacularly with illusions.

[deuxhero]

If you're set on wizard, there's an enchanter variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#enchanterVariants) in UA that gives social skills as class skills. There are also ways to get those skills via the apprentice or martial study feats.


Diviner Variant from the same gets sense motives, which is also fitting for an adviser over a diplomat

[Coidzor]

I'd like to have things like, Continual Flame, Tenser's Floating Disk, Wind Wall & Darkness, then anything in Necromancy

Continual Flame? Why would you waste money when you can summon something that is a ball of light and creates 'em for free? :smallconfused:

Darkness is easily exceeded by any Fog spell.

Tenser's Floating Disk is kind of useless.

Wind Wall is nice, but replicable.

Necromancy, on the other hand is the thematic dark wizard school. And if you're a court wizard, well...

[Zaq]

This isn't exactly the same thing, but here's (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202783&highlight=Alfred+Sorcerer) an oldish thread of mine where I explored a somewhat similar concept. It's somewhat different, but you might find something you can use there.

[Anderlith]

I'm going to be a nice Court Wizard, a lax Lawful Good, loyal to king & country but not so much much lawful if the laws are going to endanger the lord. & I'm starting at low level. (I hate high level & broken builds btw)

[Anderlith]

Sorry double post

[Sception]

Look again at Shugenja and Beguiler, they're both well built for this sort of thing (well, the beguiler's well built for something else entirely, but by pure hapenstance ends up very good that this if you want him to be).

Otherwise a human with a 1 level rogue or factotum dip at lv 1 plus that feat that lets them buy cross class skills at regular skill cost basically gets you all the social skills you might want. Costs a caster level, so it isn't a good choice, but from a practical standpoint you'll still be fine.

Beyond that, the typical court wizard isn't a diplomat, but is rather the quite sage that sits behind the king and whispers advice in his ear, focusing mainly on enchantment spells that subtly influence those meeting with the ruler, divination spells to warn the ruler when another mage might be attempting the same, and abjuration to protect the monarch from those effects.

But if you want the more socially oriented, diplomacy wielding mage who might also serve as a diplomat, then yeah; bard, shugenja, beguiler, or UA variant enchanter are the ways to go.

[Alleran]

I'm going to be a nice Court Wizard, a lax Lawful Good, loyal to king & country but not so much much lawful if the laws are going to endanger the lord. & I'm starting at low level. (I hate high level & broken builds btw)
It actually sounds a bit more like Neutral Good than Lawful Good, the way you're describing it here.

[Anderlith]

It actually sounds a bit more like Neutral Good than Lawful Good, the way you're describing it here.

It's up to interpretation, I'm steadfastly loyal to my lord & to his estate (& I mean estate in a legal sense) but not personally loyal to his subjects. I will break laws to insure that the Barony is safe. Kind of like Homeland Security.

[The Winter King]

I was thinking of being the guy that socializes with all the nobles & hobnobs with the aristocrats, whilst using magic to make my lord prosperous. Kind of like a Magocrat... this should be a class...

Enchanter seems the way to go

Do you mean, something like this

http://www.dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Magocrat_%283.5e_Prestige_Class%29

[Anderlith]

Is it better to try this in Pathfinder? Is there a specific combination of a feat or alt class ability?

[Coidzor]

Is it better to try this in Pathfinder? Is there a specific combination of a feat or alt class ability?

Maybe so, since specialization doesn't preclude you the ability to cast things when you need to in advance or ritually.

[Malachei]

I'd say Beguiler with Able Learner is the easiest way to accomplish this. I also don't think Beguilers need to be any "rogueish", you can just opt to not invest in the skills that make them be. It is more the image of the class that may be an issue for you. But you don't have to tell anyone, do you? The NPC world will not know you're a Beguiler, and even your character will not know he's a Beguiler. I think it is a metagame concern, in a way. Nothing bad with that, of course. Personally, I dislike Factotums, which is because of a metagame concern, as well.

[hewhosaysfish]

Please forgive me as I'm slightly off-topic but...


Continual Flame? Why would you waste money when you can summon something that is a ball of light and creates 'em for free? :smallconfused:




When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire.

Link (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#summoning)

[Emperor Tippy]

You don't summon, you call.

---
As for the OP, make your first level Factotum and grab able learner.

All skills are now class skills and you get Cunning Insight (add your Int to various rolls).