DM Errors (an opinion thread)

[myancey]

Okay, so I'm the primary DM for my group and have been DMing for various groups for more than 8 years, fairly solidly.

During last night's session, the party encountered a cloaker.

Cloaker Stats, SRD:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/cloaker.htm

The event leading to my question:

I used the nausea moan on the party twice, affecting party members who had made their saves against the first moan. Skimming through the monsters stats, I didn't notice that a player couldn't be affected by particular moan for 24 hours if they beat their save.

I read this around a full round later--actions by players and the creature had been made, etc, and I didn't want to go back on turns to change up the second nausea moan.

So I left it the same, and had the creature stay out of combat except for using his remaining moan powers until the party's nausea all went away (giving up a pretty significant advantage of the creature.)

The question I pose is:

What do other DMs do when the find out they made an error at least one full round after the error was made?

If the error is immediately called out, it spells a different scenario--one easily fixable. But I don't allow my players access to the monster manuals except for summoning and animal companions--so calling me out is usually impossible unless they've encountered the creature many-a-time.

[Mooncrow]

What do other DMs do when the find out they made an error at least one full round after the error was made?

If the error is immediately called out, it spells a different scenario--one easily fixable. But I don't allow my players access to the monster manuals except for summoning and animal companions--so calling me out is usually impossible unless they've encountered the creature many-a-time.

Did it make a substantial difference in play? If yes, then I rewind the round and we do it over. If no, then let play continue on, and make a note, out loud, after the combat. (and by substantial, I mean player death, destryed magical item, party separation, etc.)

[Telasi]

If it didn't result in deaths, move on like nothing happened. Apologize if you feel bad. Nothing more needs to or should be done.

If somebody died (in my most infamous example, getting thrown through an air elemental and taking six AoOs plus falling damage resulting in a dead rogue; forgot the one AoO per move limit), then talking it over with the players after the fight is probably the best way of figuring out how to deal with it.

[bloodtide]

I just ignore it.

[The Boz]

Last session, I almost killed one of the players because I thought Pathfinder Halberds had reach.
Guess what. They don't.

[flumphy]

If the error is in the PCs' favor, I let it slide.

Playing in real time, if the players call me out and the error is in the monster's favor, I redo the round. If they don't call me out, it depends on how significant the error was and how much time we have in the session.

In PbP, I let the action stand unless it resulted in a PC death. PbP combat is painfully slow as is.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

In PbP, I let the action stand unless it resulted in a PC death. PbP combat is painfully slow as is.In PbP one also has the advantage of being able to casually look up the rules before each post.

[myancey]

Yeah, a player did die--but it wasn't specifically the nausea thing that allowed him to be killed. I waited until the nausea passed before having my creature attack--in fact, the player who died initiated actual damage with the creature. It was perfectly content hanging out near the ceiling.

[CactusAir]

DM errors that can be fixed easily, are fixed.

DM errors that require looking up entries... just roll with it and don't make the mistake again. Stopping a game to look stuff up is a no-no in my book. Players who forget to have the info on their spell/wildshape form/soulmeld handy just don't get to use it this session.

[Godskook]

Honest mistakes that are too late to be reversed are ret-conned into actual stats of that particular monster. After all, not everything the players encounter are exactly as it would appear in a book. For recurring NPCs, this typically takes the form of "he had a scroll and used it" if I realize it before the next time that NPC fights the party.

[myancey]

Honest mistakes that are too late to be reversed are ret-conned into actual stats of that particular monster. After all, not everything the players encounter are exactly as it would appear in a book. For recurring NPCs, this typically takes the form of "he had a scroll and used it" if I realize it before the next time that NPC fights the party.

This is generally what I do.

It can be difficult, as DM, to manage every creature you come across. The session I most recently DM'd involved four creatures I have never used before. It is time consuming to read through them--and even a general read through before the session doesn't help a ton.

Edit: Don't get me wrong--reading through beforehand does help. But you especially when introducing multiple new enemies, it can be confusing.

[Lord Il Palazzo]

If I make a mistake that benefits the players or that doesn't do serious harm, I handwave it but do call their attention to it so they no not to expect the same outcome in the future.

If I made a mistake that did seriously harm the players, I'd try to undo or rewind it as best I could from the time I noticed it.

[myancey]

Well thanks for the posts, everyone.

I was looking to see what others generally thought. My view is admittedly biased, and my years of DMing have left me entrenched in my views. So it's good to hear (read) others thoughts on the matter.

[CTrees]

If in the PCs' favor, largely do nothing. Maybe say something on the order of "I made a mistake, here's how it's supposed to happen, and how it will happen in future." If out of the PCs' favor, I'd do something to make things right, as appropriate. Death? Provide an easy resurrection, most likely. Destruction of items? Find a nice bit of treasure. Accidentally made a monster's ability tougher than it ought to be? Provide some extra xp ("it was an ADVANCED dire lemur").

[sirpercival]

Turn it into a plot hook. If a player notices that that cloaker was unusual, then they can investigate and discover the mad scientist that's genetically engineering monsters to his own ends and releasing them into the wild.

[nedz]

I have been known to rewind/rerun but mainly for player errors. Like the time we had a near TPK against some minor opponents. The players started doing deliberately suicidal things - so I stopped the combat to work out why. One of the players had been rolling a twenty sided d10 - he only needed an 11 to hit.

In a case like this I would just re-spec the monster on the fly. I've made several mistakes like this over the years, mainly to the monsters detriment, like the time I ignored an NPCs equipment and the monk flurried him in 1 round (The NPC wasn't wearing his armour you see :smallbiggrin:)

[Amphetryon]

Yeah, a player did die--but it wasn't specifically the nausea thing that allowed him to be killed. I waited until the nausea passed before having my creature attack--in fact, the player who died initiated actual damage with the creature. It was perfectly content hanging out near the ceiling.
Woah, one of your PLAYERS died? You run a hardcore campaign! (sorry).

If I realize after the fact that I made an error, I try to resolve it as follows.

Step 1. Hey, guys, I messed up.
Step 2. [explain error in detail]
Step 3. Do we want to retroactively change the combat to reflect the right rules, or play on, with XP as if this monster were one CR higher due to my messing up?
Step 4. [tally votes]
Step 5. Promise to try to pay better attention in future.

[Slipperychicken]

rolling a twenty sided d10 - he only needed an 11 to hit.

As in, the die had 20 sides, but numbers that only went up to 10?

[DaMullet]

As in, the die had 20 sides, but numbers that only went up to 10?

Yes, they are pretty old-school but not uncommon. Good for gamers who only want to play with platonic solids.

[Aegis013]

Sounds like you handled it in a fair and unbiased manner. As a player I would be ok with this even if I knew afterward that it wasn't within the standard rules.

Then again, I strongly advocate slight monster adjustments for regular encounters. So I may be biased.

[King Atticus]

Firstly, full disclosure, I'm part of the group this happened in and, I think, the player at the root of this thread.

I had initially passed my will save for no effect and then later failed my save and was nauseated for 5 rounds. This wasn't a big deal...it happens when you're fighting monsters. The problem was that today he told me about the error and that he caught it after 1 round but let it continue. I'm not angry about this at all, the DM can do what he wants, but there was a real annoyance when he told me and it sunk in that I was out of the game for that long for no reason other than I didn't read that line. I know no one knows everything about every creature they use but the fact remained that even after he was aware of the mistake I was out for 4 more rounds.

Recap, I'm not mad about the situation at all, I just wanted to voice the players side. I wasn't petty about it, at least I don't think I was :smallsmile:, DM's have full control over whatever they use in their games but having penalties that take you out of the game for no reason is hard to swallow. For me ignorance really would have been bliss...had I not known I wouldn't have cared.Thanks guys.

[nedz]

As in, the die had 20 sides, but numbers that only went up to 10?

1-10 twice, well 0-9 twice but its the same thing.

[hobbitkniver]

I just ignore it.

This one seems like ample advice. I don't think it matters, but if it had a worse outcome (Like someone's death), it'd be a much tougher choice.