Imperial Court design

[Little Brother]

So, one of the things my group has talked about trying to deal with an expansionist empire that's invading the main country where they are. I'm sorta basing it off of feudal Japan and China. So, the thing this country has is a lot of powerful wizards. So, I want t o know what you guys think.

My builds so far:

The imperial retainers: Eunuchs, they follow, help, and secure nobles in the capital:

Basic soldier
Ranger 2/Fighter 1
13/15/14/12/10/8
Equipment: Cho Ko Nu
Feats? Quick reload, Point blank shot(I'm giving them EWP for free, given their location), and what else? Precise shot?

Capital Guard(Elite infantry)
Duskblade 5 or 6
14/12/13/15/10/8
Equipment?
Feats? I dunno. Also, progression for higher levels?

Lieutenant(Officer)
Bard X(Unsure)
8/14/12/13/10/15(+Level up bonuses)
Feats: Song of the Heart(Bonus Feat), Finesse, maybe KnowDev or maybe DFI.
Equipment: Rapier, Chain Shirt

Sorcerer 10/Eunuch Warlock 2
8/12/10/14/13/18(Elite Array)
Good feats?
Good spells? I want random utility(As they're servants of high nobles), but great blasting, preferably precision damage to not break surroundings.

Ogre Guards(Ogres Mages are a higher class, but lower than nobles. Tend to work under Eunuch Warlocks)
Crusader X(Maybe warblade)
Again, no idea. I'm not good at this. :smallfrown:

Ogre Commander
Warmage X

See above

The nobles, themselves, will be low-mid-level Wu Jen

And the Emperor:

Wu Jen 6/Warblade or Crusader 1/JPM 10/Wu Jen 3
Feats: Among other things, Arcane Disciple(?): Spite.

I want the first run through to be at ECL 10-12. The king will have probably used an Ashnard gambit(ditching his own capital), so they won't die, and the final encounter closer to ECL 20-ish.

What do you guys think? How can I keep these guys threatening at level 10-12 and level 16+? Will I have to use the "Oh, they're the emperor's personal bodyguard, they're stronger" excuse? Well, beyond the basic soldier. They're there to die.

So, yeah, what do you guys think?

Also, how does an idiot crusader work? I was thinking that might be a good leader for the Ogres(Mages).

[myancey]

If you're basing this army off of medieval china/japan, I would recommend having tons of those 1st level soldiers you mentioned. Mob variant rules in DMG II (I believe) would make even these guys a challenge against PCs.

I'd probably have your low level soliders be fighter 1, though. With mob rules you'd just count a group of them as one unit--only real way to allow a crud ton of NPCs onto the battlefield without each round taking 30 minutes.

And, to be fair, the Emperor's body guard probably are stronger. You should consider him hiring War Trolls from MM4..I think...they wreck stuff. And only cost 75gp per day. Well worth a regenerative foe.

Also, take ideas from RHOD. If the party become too much of a threat, throw ambush encounters at them that are a really high CR.

He's an emperor--it's likely that he'll have money (and if evil he could always raise taxes to an extreme for a short period without destroying his economy--thereby affording high level troops).

Anyway, saw the thread and wanted to mention some quick thoughts before I had to run.

[DoughGuy]

Wouldn't marshal or a cleric(I think it is)/war priest be a better class for the lieutenant? How smart are you're ogres? because ToB classes seem odd for a ogre to have (just my opinion).

[Little Brother]

Oh, for reference, fully grown adults are level 3. To me, it makes no sense on how easy it is for, say, a cat killing a human, absurd lack of hit points, and so on.

I'm gonna need to check this mob thing

I admit, the Emperor's bodyguard SHOULD be stronger. But the bodyguard, itself, is not an occupying force. Yes, he can have hundreds of supersoldiers like that. The problem is that the single unit is not enough to be an occupying force, which is what I'm thinking about.

And he's got ties to the Flesh Cult, he should have access to War Trolls.

What Golems are good enemies, by the way? This guy has some connection to the Machine Cult, too, and would make this more interesting.

Wouldn't marshal or a cleric(I think it is)/war priest be a better class for the lieutenant? How smart are you're ogres? because ToB classes seem odd for a ogre to have (just my opinion).Ah, Ogres in my setting is Ogre Mages, -SLAs and -2 strength. The dumb ogres are stronger, and are more common, but are, well, dumb. More of them but they're fighter/barbarian only.

And I like warmages. Sorta a counter-weight to the Eunuch Warlocks, who, by the way, at least the stronger ones, tend to lead a force of two-four lesser Ogres, and a few soldiers.

[DoughGuy]

If you're basing this army off of medieval china/japan, I would recommend having tons of those 1st level soldiers you mentioned. Mob variant rules in DMG II (I believe) would make even these guys a challenge against PCs.

I'd probably have your low level soliders be fighter 1, though. With mob rules you'd just count a group of them as one unit--only real way to allow a crud ton of NPCs onto the battlefield without each round taking 30 minutes.

And, to be fair, the Emperor's body guard probably are stronger. You should consider him hiring War Trolls from MM4..I think...they wreck stuff. And only cost 75gp per day. Well worth a regenerative foe.

Also, take ideas from RHOD. If the party become too much of a threat, throw ambush encounters at them that are a really high CR.

He's an emperor--it's likely that he'll have money (and if evil he could always raise taxes to an extreme for a short period without destroying his economy--thereby affording high level troops).

Anyway, saw the thread and wanted to mention some quick thoughts before I had to run.

If you do use mob fighting rules you may as well make them samurai for the flavour since thy wont be that effective anyway.

I'm not sure if you misinterpreted the first part of my post but the marshal or warpriest part was directed towards the bard npc.

If you want to keep them effective at higher levels make all these characters effective for level 10 -12 and then implement a 'secret service' type force for levels 16+. This allows you to pull in super soldiers from nowhere and it be reasonable. That way it also makes sense that the PCs don't encounter them earlier.

[Little Brother]

If you do use mob fighting rules you may as well make them samurai for the flavour since thy wont be that effective anyway.Samurai are nobles, I was going to make them Mystic Rangers, honestly. Archery, swordsmanship, makes sense. I am thinking just regular troops.

I'm not sure if you misinterpreted the first part of my post but the marshal or warpriest part was directed towards the bard npc.Oh, okay. Marshals are just SO bad, the bard is infinitely superior. What is this Warpriest? Book?

If you want to keep them effective at higher levels make all these characters effective for level 10 -12 and then implement a 'secret service' type force for levels 16+. This allows you to pull in super soldiers from nowhere and it be reasonable. That way it also makes sense that the PCs don't encounter them earlier.Oh, I like it a lot. Secret Service. What should they be classed as? Beguilers? Mystic Rangers?

Still, the Emperor's bodyguards are gonna be high level. I like duskblades, among others, for meleers in the bodyguard.

[DoughGuy]

I think warpriest CD but can't remember. Here's a link http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/mp/mp20010413d. Its better for leaders of armies though, not leaders of a personal guard. For a a secret service beguilers would definetily be a good choice for the casters. Duskblades are always good if you want a gish style build for an npc.

[Runestar]

For a precision-based caster, perhaps consider a rogue1/sorc6/spellwarped sniper build? His main highlight would be split-fireball rays each dealing 20d6 fire damage (plus some sneak attack). :smallamused:

[docnessuno]

I did consider your ogre-mage as LA +4

Soldier [ECL 3]
Ranger 2 / fighter 1 (progression: Ranger 2 / fighter 4, +1 dex)
13/15/14/12/10/8
Equipment: MW Repeating heavvy crossbow (chu-ko-nu), Two MW shortswords, MW chain shirt, 20 bolts
Feats: Rapid shot, Two weapon fighting, Weapon focus (repeating crossbow), weapon focus (short sword), Improved toughness
HP: 27, AC: 16, Ranged: +5/+5 1d10, Melee: +3/+3 1d6+1


Elite [ECL 6]
Duskblade 5 / Abjurant champion 1 (progression: Duskblade 6 / Abjurant champion 3, +1 dex)
14/13/12/16/10/8
Equipment: +1 Naginata (Halberd), +1 Breastplate
Feats: Combat casting, Power attack, Weapon focus (naginata), Improved toughness, Extra spell (shield)
HP: 43, AC: 17 (22 w quickened shield), Melee: +8/+3 1d10+4 (plus channeling)


Liutenent [ECL 9]
Cleric 4 / Crusader 1 / Ruby knight vindicator 4 (progression: Cleric 4 / Crusader 1 / Ruby knight vindicator 7, +1 wis)
14 10 14 8 18 12
Equipment: +1 Mace, +1 large shield, +1 Full plate, Periapt of Wisdom +2
Domains: Magic, Law
Feats: Extend spell, Law devotion, Improved toughness, Sacred Boost
HP: 72, AC: 22, Melee: +11/+6 1d8+3


Commander [ECL 12] (maybe variant paladin for desired alignment)
Paladin 2 / Sorcerer 4 / Spellsword 1 / Abjurant champion 5 (progression: Paladin 2 / Sorcerer 4 / Spellsword 4 / Abjurant champion 5)
18 13 12 10 8 18
Equipment: +1 spell storing greatsword, belt of giant strenght +2, cloak of the nymph +2, metamagic rod of lesser extend.
Feats: Praticed spellcaster (sorcerer), Power attack, weapon focus (greatsword), arcane strike, combat casting
HP: 69, AC: 11 (24 with mage armor and quickened shield), Melee: +16/+11 2d6+7


Half-Ogre mageslayer [ECL 9]
LA 1 / Warrior 4 / Lion totem barbarian 1 / Occult slayer 3 (progression: LA 1 / Warrior 4 / Lion totem barbarian 2 / Occult slayer 5)
24 12 16 10 8 8
Equipment: +1 Spiked chain, +1 Breastplate, Gauntlets of ogre power +2
Feats: EWP (spiked chain), Weapon focus (spiked chain), Weapon specialization (spiked chain), Extra rage, power attack, Cleave, mage slayer, Improved initiative
HP: 71, AC: 21, Melee: +17/+12 2d6+13 (Reach 20")


Ogre guard [ECL 12]
LA 4 / Giant 5 / Crusader 3 (progression: LA 4 / Giant 5 / Crusader 6)
26 14 20 14 16 14
Equipment: +2 Spiked chain, +2 Full plate, Gauntlets of ogre power +2
Feats: EWP (spiked chain), Power attack, Cleave
Stance: Ticket of blades
HP: 82, AC: 25, Melee: +16/+11 2d6+14 (Reach 20")


Ogre Commander [ECL 15]
LA 4 / Giant 5 / Sorcerer 2 / Abjurant champion 4 (progression: LA 4 / Giant 5 / Sorcerer 4 / Abjurant champion 5)
26 12 22 14 12 24
Equipment: +3 Spiked chain, belt of giant strenght +4, amulet of health +2, cloak of the nymph +2, metamagic rod of lesser extend.
Feats: Praticed spellcaster (sorcerer), Combat casting, EWP (spiked chain) Power attack
HP: 119, AC: 11 (23 with mage armor and quickened shield), Melee: +19/+14 2d6+15 (Reach 20")



Encounters:

ECL 8
2 Elite
6 Soliders

ECL 9:
1 Liutenent
1 Half-ogre mageslayer
3 Elite
8 soldiers

ECL 10
4 Elite
12 Soldiers
4 Soliders + 1 Liutenent

ECL 11
8 Soliders + 1 Liutenent
2 Liutenets
2 Half-ogre mageslayers

ECL 12
1 Commander
1 Ogre guard
8 Soliders + 2 Liutenents
8 elites

ECL 13
12 Elites
8 elites + 2 Half-ogre mageslayers
8 elites + 2 Liutenets

ECL 14
8 Elites + 1 Commander
1 Commander + 1 Ogre guard
2 Ogre guard

ECL 15
3 Ogre guard
1 Commander + 2 Ogre guard
1 Commander + 2 Liutenent + 2 Half-ogre mageslayer + 8 elites
1 Ogre commander

ECL 16
1 Ogre commander + 8 elites + 2 Half-ogre mageslayers
1 Ogre commander + 2 Ogre guard
1 Ogre commander + 1 Commander + 1 Ogre guard
1 Ogre commander + 1 Ogre guard + 3 Half-ogre mageslayers
6 Ogre guard
2 Liutenents + 4 Half-ogre mageslayers + 12 Elites + 16 soldiers
1 Commander + 2 Ogre guard + 8 Elites

[Runestar]

If they are npcs, they should use cr.

This means an ogre with 4 lvs in crusader would be cr7. Likewise, an ogre crusader8 would be cr11, a pair with spiked chains and thicket of blades stance should be able to reasonably harry a party.:smallsmile:

Commander - perhaps ogre mage fighter8 (cr13 using non-associated class rules)?

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Warpriest is a trap-half casting

I'd suggest Bardblades for Officers. Mostly Warblade with a Bard dip. If your not familiar the feat Song of the White Rave lets you IC as a swift action and makes Warblade advance IC progression. Make sure to grab Extra Music.

[Little Brother]

AWESOME STUFFThanks, dude! That's awesome.

Only thing is I kinda like Bard above RKV, though I totally want to fit that in somewhere. Will nab that for something else, definitely. Or retitle the bard build, either way.

EDIT:Chaplains seem to be a decent title/position for the Ruby Knight Windicator


Warpriest is a trap-half casting

I'd suggest Bardblades for Officers. Mostly Warblade with a Bard dip. If your not familiar the feat Song of the White Rave lets you IC as a swift action and makes Warblade advance IC progression. Make sure to grab Extra Music.I like this, too. Very nice idea.

[Anarchy_Kanya]

If they are npcs, they should use cr.

This means an ogre with 4 lvs in crusader would be cr7. Likewise, an ogre crusader8 would be cr11, a pair with spiked chains and thicket of blades stance should be able to reasonably harry a party.:smallsmile:

Commander - perhaps ogre mage fighter8 (cr13 using non-associated class rules)?
Crusader and Fighter are associated for ogres.

[Urpriest]

Are you using the updated version of Eunuch Warlock, or the 3.0 version? The update was printed in a Dragon, but it's not all that bad, compared to the original which is a little weak given its odd spell progression. I had a thread awhile back figuring out uses for the new one, if you want to do a search (title was something like "how to make the most of two sacrifices").

[Little Brother]

Are you using the updated version of Eunuch Warlock, or the 3.0 version? The update was printed in a Dragon, but it's not all that bad, compared to the original which is a little weak given its odd spell progression. I had a thread awhile back figuring out uses for the new one, if you want to do a search (title was something like "how to make the most of two sacrifices").I, unfortunately, do not have that Dragon, but the weak one fits the group power level better(3 Tier 3 newbs, +2 good players)..

So, yeah, the 3.0 OA one.

[Runestar]

Crusader and Fighter are associated for ogres.

Correct, and my post assumes that.

However, since ogre mages are cr8 for 5 HD (and their abilities don't really scale well with class lvs), I recommend all class lvs being treated as non-associated for them. I have tried it and didn't find anything overpowered about it. If anything, they still seemed a tad weak.