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View Full Version : Any tips for running my first Gestalt Game?



Adamantrue
2011-11-04, 10:24 AM
One of my room mates talked me into running another 3.5 game, though thankfully it will be almost exclusively an Arena-style set of matches. Just gotta keep paperwork square & hunt down or make good maps, and make sure everyone sticks to the 28 Point Buy.
-Questions: Anyone know where I can just grab quick Combat Maps, especially if you can't point me to a varied source (I'd like to included Mounted & Ranged combat along with brutish Melee)? And is a 28 Point Buy good enough (though not necessarily good) for possible MAD Gestalt Characters?

I structured it so that Tier 3 Classes can only pair up with Tier 6 Classes, and Tier 4 Classes can Gestalt with Tier 5-6, and so on. The balancing point was decided because I wanted to NPC a Divine Bard-Aristocrat in the Arena at some point, but I also think I can probably sneak in a limited non-Gestalted Tier 2 once in a while to spice things up. I'm also would like to discourage any additional Multiclassing, though maybe they can give up both sides of the Gestalt for a Prestige Class (haven't made a hard call on this yet).
-Questions: Is the balancing point I used for Tiers ideal or workable, or is there going to be a problem? Is it a bad idea to eliminate additional Multiclassing? What about what I'm doing with PrCs?

I didn't plan on adjusting CRs, allowing for faster advancement. They are probably going to be facing a lot of Gestalted Opponents, anyways. I'm probably going to award them their equipment, but allow them to make requests based on WBL. One thing I'm going to discourage is simply claiming the equipment of the fallen (though they may be awarded in upon request).

Now, 1 Player expressed an interest in using a Savage Species-style Monster Progression, with "dead levels" that caught up with the Level Adjustment. In a pinch, I let him Gestalt with a Tier 5 Class (Hound Archon-Paladin, specifically), though I don't know if it was good idea. The specific method we're going to use is that the "dead levels" count towards the Gestalt, so he'll get his Paladin advancement for those 5 levels.
-Questions: Did I handle this alright with the Tiers, or did I just make a goof at the Player's expense (or my own)? Is there a suggested/preferred method of Gestalting with Level Adjusted Races other than the one I'm using here?

Finally, based on the premise, I was hoping you people could give me some interesting ideas for Match-Ups or NPC Gladiators (maybe partial builds). I did plan on doing Team-Ups (I wanna cut lose with a Black Dragon), and I have an idea for a Death Race or Capture the Flag.

docnessuno
2011-11-04, 11:06 AM
I personally dislike low point buy (moreso in gestalt), but that's just me, Even so i'd consider rising it to at least a 32 pb, allowing a statline along those lines (for a melee/arcane combination for example)
16 12 14 16 8 10

For tiers pairing i think your idea is fine, being exacly like the sistem i use:
T1: 6 points
T2: 5 points
T3: 4 points
T4: 3 points
T5: 2 points
T6: 1 point

Each level your total may not exceed X points (6 if allowing tier 1 in the game, 5 if allowing tier 2, 4 otherwise)
Assuming no T1, this would allow ungestalted T2 or T3-6 T4-5 combinations.
About PRCs, their power level can vary a lot, so i'd suggest you to use the tier system for PRCs and consider them like a base class.

About LA and gestalt, pairing it with a racial progression is a way, but slightly ups the power level ("dead" levels are just non-gestalt ones), also you'd need to adjucate the "tier" of each racial progression on a case by case basis.
Another way is: Racial HD's on one side (Outsider/Dragon = T4, rest = T6), LA split between both sides, with uneven LA's adjusted by +1 (so a paladin / hound archon would end out as: LA 3, Paaladin 6 // LA 3, Outsider 6 (iirc paladin is T5, so gestalting with outsider (T4) works well)

Edit:
Be wary of savage species progressions, they were made with 3.0 creatures, so somethimes they have a different number of "dead levels" then they should.
Also, as the DM, you might consider lowering the LA by 1 on uneven ones instead of increasing it, depending on the power level of the race.

sirpercival
2011-11-04, 11:09 AM
Low point-buy is a WORSE idea in gestalt, since many more characters will be MAD. You're punishing people who want to make a cool character by melding disparate concepts together.

Adamantrue
2011-11-04, 11:35 AM
I personally dislike low point buy (moreso in gestalt), but that's just me, Even so i'd consider rising it to at least a 32 pb, allowing a statline along those lines (for a melee/arcane combination for example)
16 12 14 16 8 10

Low point-buy is a WORSE idea in gestalt, since many more characters will be MAD. You're punishing people who want to make a cool character by melding disparate concepts together. By "WORSE", I assume you also consider it "BAD" in a Standard game.

I've actually always been a fan of the 25 Point Buy in standard games, even when I've went with MAD Classes like the Monk. I have to pick & choose more carefully, build a little less impulsively, but I've always considered it a good time.

It could also be flipped around to mean "You're rewarding people who want to make a cool character by melding synergistic concepts together." I'd prefer people have more of a challenge if they really want to break the mold, and get results like the Monk-Ranger (it worked so well for me recently, I'm TOTALLY going with a few in this Arena).

With all that said...I concede to both of your points. Perhaps I can go as high as a 32 Point Buy, but anything more than that is making it way to easy.
About PRCs, their power level can vary a lot, so i'd suggest you to use the tier system for PRCs and consider them like a base class. I'll look up the Tiers for PrCs later (on a better computer), but I'm thinking it may well be easier to just place a ban on PrCs. The more I think about it (with the Gestalting & the Monster Progressions), I might want to keep my job as simple as possible.
About LA and gestalt, pairing it with a racial progression is a way, but slightly ups the power level ("dead" levels are just non-gestalt ones), also you'd need to adjucate the "tier" of each racial progression on a case by case basis.
Another way is: Racial HD's on one side (Outsider/Dragon = T4, rest = T6), LA split between both sides, with uneven LA's adjusted by +1 (so a paladin / hound archon would end out as: LA 3, Paaladin 6 // LA 3, Outsider 6 (iirc paladin is T5, so gestalting with outsider (T4) works well)

Edit:
Be wary of savage species progressions, they were made with 3.0 creatures, so somethimes they have a different number of "dead levels" then they should.
Also, as the DM, you might consider lowering the LA by 1 on uneven ones instead of increasing it, depending on the power level of the race. I'm aware of the edition differences from Savage Species, as I've handled that plenty in the past. That part is fine.

As far as the LA...so to be fair with the same methodology, a Goliath Rogue-Fighter adjusted for Level 3 Play would be LA 1 Rogue 2 // LA 1 Fighter 2?

But with my methodology, it could be LA 1 Rogue 2 // Fighter 3.

Not sure which I'd like better. But I'm leaning towards my initial method...

docnessuno
2011-11-04, 11:39 AM
As far as the LA...so to be fair with the same methodology, a Goliath Rogue-Fighter adjusted for Level 3 Play would be LA 1 Rogue 2 // LA 1 Fighter 2?

But with my methodology, it could be LA 1 Rogue 2 // Fighter 3.

Not sure which I'd like better. But I'm leaning towards my initial method...

Well, your game your call of course.
But the main drawback of LA is not losing X levels of class features (unless you are a caster), is losing X full HDs, with associated HPs, skills, BaB, save bonuses.
Considering the higher power level of gestalt this is already mitigated by splitting the LA on both sides (wich means half of it is 'free')

Adamantrue
2011-11-04, 12:05 PM
Well...

I could rule it that the other side of a LA Gestalt has to be a Tier 5, and allow them to pick up a Tier 4 after they have completed the Monster Progression.

I recognize that not all Tier 5s are created equal (pretty true for Monster Progressions too), but since I wanted to start at Level 1, its really the only listed method I see that will let them start with a Monstrous Race (excluding subtracting the LA, which I don't like very much at all).

flabort
2011-11-04, 08:23 PM
Yup. Just calling LA as a T2 or T3 "class" when using partial gestalt (which this is) is not something generally considered, but I'd consider it fair.