Gestalt Build: Please critique! :D

[StormTAG]

Heironeous Smash [Human, up to two flaws]

Cleric ACF: Cloistered Cleric
Flaw: Shaky
Flaw: Inattentive

Features Feats Spells IL/Rdy/Gntd Maneuvers
Cleric 1 // Paladin 1 Aura of Good, Turn Undead, Lore, Law Devotion, Power Attack, Cleric 1 0 / 0
Smite Evil 1/Day, Detect Evil, Extra Turning, True Believer,
Knowledge Domain, War Domain, Divine Might
Law Domain swapped
Cleric 2 // Paladin 2 Divine Grace, Lay on Hands Cleric 2 1 / 0
Cleric 3 // Crusader 1 Furious Counterstrike, Extra Granted Maneuver Cleric 3 2 / 5 / 3 Crusader's Strike, Vanguard Strike
Steely Resolve 5 Charging Minotaur, Dousing the Flames
Leading the Attack, *Iron Guard's Glare*
Cleric 4 // Paladin 3 Aura of Courage, Divine Health Cleric 4 2 / 5 / 3
Cleric 5 // OrdChamp 1 Glory Domain, Continued Adv., Improved Intiative, Cleric 5 3 / 5 / 3
Combat Feats (Knowledge, Glory), Combat Reflexes
Modified Spontaneous Casting
Cleric 6 // Templar 1 Mettle Leadership Cleric 6, Templar 1 3 / 5 / 3
Cleric 7 // OrdChamp 2 Smite Diehard Cleric 7, Templar 2 4 / 5 / 3
Cleric 8 // RbyKnght 1 Cleric 8, Templar 2 5 / 5 / 3 *Thicket of Blades*
Cleric 9 // RbyKnght 2 Divine Recovery Stand Still Cleric 9, Templar 3 6 / 5 / 3 White Raven Tactics
Cleric 10 // RbyKnght 3 Cleric 10, Templar 4 7 / 5 / 3
Cleric 11 // RbyKnght 4 Cleric 11, Templar 5 8 / 5 / 3 Bone Splitting Strike
Cleric 12 // RbyKnght 5 Armored Stealh Battle Blessing Cleric 12, Templar 5 9 / 6 / 4 *Press the Advantage*
Cleric 13 // RbyKnght 6 Cleric 13, Templar 6 10/ 6 / 4 Flanking Maneuver
Cleric 14 // RbyKnght 7 Divine Impetus Cleric 14, Templar 7 11/ 6 / 4
Cleric 15 // RbyKnght 8 Divine Vigor Cleric 15, Templar 8 12/ 6 / 4 Rallying Strike
Cleric 16 // RbyKnght 9 Divine Fury Cleric 16, Templar 9 13/ 7 / 5
Cleric 17 // RbyKnght 10 Cleric 17, Templar 10 14/ 7 / 5 Swarming Assault
Crusader 2 // OrdChamp 3 Channel Spell, Divine Bulwark, Extra Turning Cleric 18, Templar 10 15/ 7 / 5 *Immortal Fortitude*
Indomitable Will
Cleric 18 // Crusader 3 Zealous Surge Cleric 19, Templar 10 16/ 7 / 5 White Raven Hammer
Cleric 19 // Crusader 4 Steely Resolve 10 Cleric 20, Templar 10 17/ 7 / 5 Swap Charging Minotaur for Warmaster's Charge

BAB +20, 20th level Cleric casting, 10th Level Pious Templar Casting, IL 17 (9th Level Maneuvers)


Only real assumption is that Battle Blessing applies to Pious Templar spells, since they both come from the Paladin spell list. It seems logical to me and a great addition to the build but hardly game changing.

The Ruby Knight Vindicator levels are actually from a refluffed version of the class that I use. Basically, its requirements are (Heal 4, Ride 4, Know(Rel) 8) and the Diety is Heironeous rather than Wee Jas. Otherwise the whole build falls apart on the whole Diety thing. Also, Armored Stealth becomes Lay on Hands and stacks with Paladin levels. Swaps Shadow Hand access for Setting Sun access (which I didn't make much use of.) Everything else stays the same.

This character will be run in a game along side a Sneak Attacker, a Barb//Druid, a Conjurer who can make big nasties and a Swift Hunter. White Raven stuff seemed quite useful. Cohort at level 6 would likely be another warrior type and/or some super mount.

What do you guys think? A little complex but it pans out as far as I can tell. :)

[StormTAG]

So, no suggestions?

[flabort]

Interesting. I will note that I see you've already taken it, but with any cleric gestalt, cloistered is pretty much "Free Candy".

If that's a variant of RNV, shouldn't you call it Sapphire Knight Vindicator? :smalltongue:

I can't really comment, though, since I see ToB. The basics have been explained to me, but the only resources available to me on that subject are the online except (warblade), and various homebrews. So, I can't really comment on anything with crusader or RNV, or swordsage, or any non-homebrew maneuvers. :smalltongue:
I understand the basic ToB mechanics, but am still unable to comment on them, sorry.

Still, interesting, and anyone who has enough books can look it over more thoroughly.

[Toliudar]

I'll take a stab at this.

Standard gestalt recommends against the use of dual-progression prestige classes like the Ruby Knight Vindicator, and even if it were permitted. You don't meet the requirements for Pious Templar. Otherwise, it seems like a perfectly serviceable tank.

[StormTAG]

What am I missing from Pious Templar?

The way we've always played it is that if a Double Progression class gives you unique class features, etc. that they can be used. You can't use the Spellcasting as Level ability of a class to double bump one casting class to get spells twice as fast. So while Mystic Theurge might be out, since it only gives you double progession and nothing else, RKV is allowed since it comes with specific, useful class features.

[Toliudar]

Pious Templar requires the True Believer feat. If that's the same as True Faith, then you're fine.

Also, you seem to be interpreting the ability to swap out maneuvers every four class levels as the ability to do so every four character levels. I'm assuming that this is more homebrew?

What's your intended arc for the character, in terms of starting/approximate end level?

[StormTAG]

True Believer is what I meant to type in. Typo. Sorry 'bout that! :D

And no, the only swap happens at level 20 with the 4th crusader level. The ** maneuvers are actually stances. Just a way for me to keep it handy.

I wanted the class functional from 1 to 20 and on into Epic. I'm playing in a game where I hope to do just that. :)

[dspeyer]

If you swap the Templar level for a fourth Paladin, you'll get double turn undead. With RKV and OC, you have plenty to spend that on. It'll cost you mettle (which is rarely useful) and a bit of casting (which is nowhere near as good as your cleric casting anyway)

[TSED]

What am I missing from Pious Templar?

The way we've always played it is that if a Double Progression class gives you unique class features, etc. that they can be used. You can't use the Spellcasting as Level ability of a class to double bump one casting class to get spells twice as fast. So while Mystic Theurge might be out, since it only gives you double progession and nothing else, RKV is allowed since it comes with specific, useful class features.

I'd also argue that, since you're still taking cleric anyway, it really doesn't disqualify.

[StormTAG]

If you swap the Templar level for a fourth Paladin, you'll get double turn undead. With RKV and OC, you have plenty to spend that on. It'll cost you mettle (which is rarely useful) and a bit of casting (which is nowhere near as good as your cleric casting anyway)

I looked at how I could cram that 4th paladin level in there without losing any other stuff. I've managed to do it. Give up 10th level Pious Templar spells but that's not much of a big thing. Still keep Mettle. I can then use the Holy Warrior

Level 6 now looks like OrdChamp 2 // Paladin 4, giving me 6th level cleric spells, more turn undead attempts and I can use the Holy Warrior ACF to nab a divine feat. Level 7 now looks like Cleric 6 // Templar 1. Still gives me Mettle and the quicker Paladin spell list casting. Any suggestions on a feat for the Holy Warrior trade in?

[Keld Denar]

What weapon are you using? I see a lot of lockdown feats, so I'd assume you are using a reach weapon? I'd highly recommend spending the feat on a Spiked Chain. Its not really Heironiousy, but its better for lockdown. If not, maybe a Spinning Sword from Secrets of Sarlona? Its a sword...just...segmented.

[StormTAG]

I was figuring just a Glaive although the game I'm actually running this in had to dump Dex, so I actually plan to go with Improved Bullrush and Shocktrooper instead and go with a Greatsword.