Help me make a wizard, please

[tcrudisi]

I haven't played 3.5 in a few years as I moved on to other systems. I've not even as much thought about it other than to curse out the guy who ruined 3.5 for me (dude brought Pun-Pun to a game. No, just ... no.) It's been too long and I don't remember any of the rules, so I'm coming to you for help building my character.

I actually wanted to do a bearington build, but when we got together to create characters, the DM just wanted us to use the PHB 1. So I listened to what everyone else was going to play: rogue, rogue, fighter, barbarian, cleric. Obviously we needed an arcane caster, so I thought about a wizard. Then I thought it would be funny if I played a creepy (but I'll still be good-aligned) gnome necromancer. For the lulz. I really want to mix in illusions as well, since obviously it will keep the bad guys on their toes if they can't figure out if my undead minions are real or not. It's more fun that way.

But beyond that, I have no idea how to build him. Seriously, no clue. We were all given a free 18, then for the remaining stats we rolled 3d6 six times and took the highest five. On roll was good to me (16), another two were okay (12 and 11), and the last two? Well, let's just say they are below 10.

Since it's been so long since I've played, if I want to be creepy Gnomis necro (level 1), what feat should I take? What spells? Should I specialize? Where should I put my stats (outside of the 18 into Int)? Is gnome a decent choice or should I really look at something more awesome like Half-Orc? :smalltongue: Really, just any advice you can give would be very much appreciated.

[Mooncrow]

So the options are limited to Core-only? (PHB, DMG, MM)

[Crovax of Rath]

Are you limited to Core books for spells?

There are plenty of good necro spells in the Spell Compendium, but your biggest concern will be the fact that a lot of Necromancy spells are Evil. Depending on how strict you DM is, you could have a rough time being good-aligned.

If you go neutral instead, Necro-Illusion would be no problem going right out of core.

[tcrudisi]

At least to start off. We have a lot of brand-new players so we did character creation with the PHB1. Obviously, if they all only used the PHB1 to create characters, I don't want to be a jerk who asks for additional content (although I probably could) ... at least until we all level up and we can all use it. So for now I'm limited to the PHB.

/edit - I'm fine with neutral. Or, I'm fine doing good deeds with evil spells. I'm certainly limited (or at least I'm limiting myself) to the PHB for the spells I start off with. I fully expect to be able to buy/get others as we play.

[Mooncrow]

Ah, that's too bad, Shadowcraft MageRoS would be a really cool PrC for that concept. Have all of your "undead minions" be illusions; and have it not matter because they still hit for real damage^^

[Crovax of Rath]

In that case, Command Undead and Control Undead are not Evil, but create undead is. That's a DM decision you'd want to find out about before committing.

[tcrudisi]

Ah, that's too bad, Shadowcraft MageRoS would be a really cool PrC for that concept. Have all of your "undead minions" be illusions; and have it not matter because they still hit for real damage^^

Is Shadowcraft Mage something I would have to start with at level 1, or is it a prc?

[Mooncrow]

Is Shadowcraft Mage something I would have to start with at level 1, or is it a prc?

It's a PrC from Races of Stone.

[tcrudisi]

Thanks, I will definitely look into it.

I'll also inquire as to how much the DM concerns herself with the evil descriptor on spells or if she cares more about the characters actions instead.

Any advice for the race (is gnome even good?), feat, stat distribution, whether I should specialize, and my spell selection? Also, anything else I've forgotten?

For stats, I was thinking: (This is all before racial modifiers, which I don't remember what the gnomes are)
Int 18
Con 16
Dex 11
Wis 12
Cha lllloooowwww
Str lllloooowwww

[Crovax of Rath]

If you're okay with specializing, break out of core just a bit and ask to take Focused Specialist. You choose a third prohibited school, lose one spell slot per spell level, but gain a total of three spell slots per spell level that must be prepared as you specialized school. This will net you two extra spell slots per spell level. Having a boatload of spells can be a lot of fun, the drawback is that you lose some versatility.

[Aegis013]

Gnome is fine. (especially if you can go Shadowcraft Mage)
Human is better. (although doesn't qualify for Shadowcraft Mage)
Whisper Gnome (Races of Stone) is great, although if your allies are restricted to PHB1, you should consider carefully before asking about this race.

It's probably better to swap your WIS and DEX, you already have a high Will save progression, and a +1 dex helps with AC, ranged touch attacks (like rays) and that handy dandy crossbow for when you don't want to use spells or are out of spells.

[Mooncrow]

Thanks, I will definitely look into it.

I'll also inquire as to how much the DM concerns herself with the evil descriptor on spells or if she cares more about the characters actions instead.

Any advice for the race (is gnome even good?), feat, stat distribution, whether I should specialize, and my spell selection? Also, anything else I've forgotten?

For stats, I was thinking: (This is all before racial modifiers, which I don't remember what the gnomes are)
Int 18
Con 16
Dex 11
Wis 12
Cha lllloooowwww
Str lllloooowwww

Gnome is good, and required for Shadowcraft Mage^^ If you guys expand books a bit and he lets you adjust your race, (or if you want to do this build in the future) Whisper Gnomes (also from Races of Stone) are probably the best racial variant.

Spell-wise, I would say it depends on the flavor you want more than anything else. Necromancy is fairly weak at 1st level, so turn to illusion for color spray and silent image, or conjuration for some creepy fiendish summoned monsters^^ Once you get 2nd level spells, then you have a huge number of useful spells to choose from: Necro: Blindness/Deafness, Ghoul Touch, Spectral Hand. Illusion: Invis, Mirror Image, Blur, etc

I'll see if I can find the cached version of the wizard/sorc spell analysis list that I use.

[tcrudisi]

Alright! So I've fleshed out the character a bit more.

I've decided to ban Abjuration and Evocation. I've always heard that you never, ever ban abjuration ... but I did it anyway. Honestly, I was never even decent at optimization in 3.5 (with casters), so I don't really know if banning abjuration is a forgivable sin or not.

I chose: Ray of Enfeeblement, Color Spray, Disguise Self, Silent Image, Grease, Enlarge Person, Charm Person as my first level spells. I have no idea which ones I'll run with (excepting Ray of Enfeeblement since I must take it at least once).

Shadowcraft Mage does look pretty tasty, so I'll definitely head into that when it becomes available.

I've also decided to go with a Raven familiar. I can think of some fun things to do with a familiar that can speak.

I still haven't decided on a feat, though. I'm torn between Improved Initiative, Spell Focus (something another), and just picking up a random metamagic feat for later. I really don't want to just pick up a random metamagic feat, though, since I won't even be able to use it for quite a few levels.

On a side note: I now remember why 3.5 frustrated me endlessly when I DM'ed it; character creation takes way, way, way too long. I've been at this for hours.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

You're in the best possible place to ban Abjuration. You're level 1, and you have a cleric in the party. I wouldn't worry about it.

Gnome isn't as powerful as human, but it's a fine choice, especially since your feat choice is limited anyway. The Con bonus is tasty, and the bonus to illusions is also good. Small size is actually good for you, so long as you can avoid melee and grapples, but you knew that.

I would consider going into Master Specialist (Complete Mage) at level 4, so to that end you may want SF: Necromancy either now or level 3. Improved Initiative is fine, especially in core-only.

IME character creation in any rules-heavy system has a large fixed "barrier to entry" of rules knowledge, but once you get into the system you can make first level characters pretty quickly (well, except all the mundane gear expenditure... that still takes me a little while). I hope you have fun and don't encounter Pun Pun, though that seems more like a player issue than a system issue to me.

[Midnight_v]

On a side note: I now remember why 3.5 frustrated me endlessly when I DM'ed it; character creation takes way, way, way too long. I've been at this for hours
Honestly, in defense of the game, since it rewards system mastery... That process is lots easier once you A: Learn the Mechanics B: Have a solid idea of the things you want your character to be doing, exactly.

[tcrudisi]

You're in the best possible place to ban Abjuration. You're level 1, and you have a cleric in the party. I wouldn't worry about it.

I'm really glad to hear that.


I would consider going into Master Specialist (Complete Mage) at level 4, so to that end you may want SF: Necromancy either now or level 3. Improved Initiative is fine, especially in core-only.

I can remember when I first bought Complete Mage. I was in love with the Master Specialist and really, really wanted to play one. I never got the chance. I remember that I wasn't a huge fan of some of them and others were amazing (not that I can remember which is which at this point). I'll definitely take a look at it.

[Gavinfoxx]

Have you seen this?

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=394

Or, while bg is down, this:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3Abrilliantgameologists.com%2Fboard s%2Findex.php%3Ftopic%3D394

You might have to edit that to be 394.20 394.40, etc. to continue reading the thread.