OOTS #813 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Pianonab338]

Great comic, Mr. Burlew. Nice to see one after a few weeks :smallsmile:

[super dark33]

YAY! roy isnt going to be executed!

[Cerlis]

looks like Belkar has ranks in another knowledge skill. what it would be called i dont know though.

[Timeless Error]

Makes me realize how many crimes the typical adventuring party commits over the course of a campaign.

I love the idea of a Qualified Fugitive Assistance Program!

[fibonacciseries]

Tarquin has other long term plans in motion?
Not a surprise, but I'd be more comfortable if we knew what they are.
Also, the charges Belkar claims Roy is running from are racketeering, jury tampering, and interfering with a mail carrier. Jury tampering is probably a reference to the trial in Azure City; can anyone think of what Belkar was referring to with the others?

[Lord Ruby34]

Wow, there wasn't a line that stood out to me in the strip, but I smiled the entire way through.

[Dust]

In every comic we see Mister T, I like him more and more. :smallcool: Good to see comic solidifying him as a long-term character (probably!).

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

[Seerow]

Any guesses on what this plan he wants Roy to work on is?

My personal guess is to take out a certain illusionist in the area, Roy and Belkar will be sent out under supervision of Tarquin's son and friends to see the job done.

[irenicObserver]

Fun comic, am I the only one that feels like Belkar is referencing something?

[Neopolis]

Well, guess Haley doesn't need to feel bad about not busting her dad out of jail anymore.

[hamishspence]

Tarquin entertaining as usual.

Was Belkar referencing some of the events in Paladin Blues? "Jury tampering" in particular.

"Interference with a mail carrier"- eating V's messenger birds in Don't Split the Party??

[theweathergirl]

Thanks Giant. I'm liking Tarquin in this strip.

[Fitzclowningham]

"Well, I certainly appreciate a man who stands by his word." Can't get much more Lawful than that.

[rbetieh]

"Well, I certainly appreciate a man who stands by his word." Can't get much more Lawful than that.

Was his alignment in question, by anyone except him I mean?

I loved the "when I was your age" reference. Apparently, there actually is an easier way and Roy isnt high enough level to know it yet.

[Douglas]

Hmm, jury tampering could be Roy's dad faking the trial verdict in Azure City, and interfering with a mail carrier could be the gnome on the way out from AC, but nothing springs to mind for racketeering. Any ideas, or alternative suggestions for the two I already covered?

[Psyren]

"Flying Kobold?" Is he dragonborn?


looks like Belkar has ranks in another knowledge skill. what it would be called i dont know though.

"Bluff."

[Douglas]

"Bluff."
No, I think he was just telling a creatively reworded truth. No bluff check required.

[Randomguy]

I think racketeering involves their stay at the thieves guild and taking back Roy's body.

[tcrudisi]

"Bluff."

You think Belkar was bluffing about the unlawful acts the OotS has performed? I think he was being honest as hamishpence has demonstrated.

I don't think the plans are of any importance. Roy is not required to do them, just to listen to the pitch. It would take something amazingly important or something that Roy was going to do anyway before he'd sidetrack the quest, imo.

[Kancsar]

humanoid resources, ha! and a nice foreshadowing of Thog's inevitable return.

[PirateMonk]

Apparently, there actually is an easier way and Roy isnt high enough level to know it yet.

"Hey, guards, go kill that guy."

[Blisstake]

Hehe, humanoid resources.

[rbetieh]

"Hey, guards, go kill that guy."

Ah the ol Robin Hood Men In Tights battle strategy, just you me, and my guards! But you dont need levels to do that, just power.

[Kancsar]

Cerlis: looks like Belkar has ranks in another knowledge skill. what it would be called i dont know though.

agree with others this wasn't really a bluff, so perhaps Peform(Alibi).

[Fuzzypickles]

OotS has got to be the most consistently good webcomic I've read. I can go and pick out a strip from pretty much any part of the story from the archive and read it and enjoy it (and then subsequently end up reading the next 10-15 strips whether I planned on it or not). I'm definitely impressed by The Giant maintaining his level of quality throughout the strip thus far.

[PirateMonk]

Ah the ol Robin Hood Men In Tights battle strategy, just you me, and my guards! But you dont need levels to do that, just power.

Power which Tarquin didn't have at lower levels

[hamishspence]

Hmm, jury tampering could be Roy's dad faking the trial verdict in Azure City, and interfering with a mail carrier could be the gnome on the way out from AC, but nothing springs to mind for racketeering.

Main reason I didn't think the gnome- was that as far as I can tell he wasn't a mail carrier, but a merchant.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0539.html

[Giggling Ghast]

My story senses are tingling.

I suspect these "long-term plans" have something to do with that muttonhead Girard Draketooth.

[Roland Itiative]

Great comic, as always:smallbiggrin:

[Slayn82]

Wasn't Miko expected to bring mail from the dwarflands when she barged in the talk between Shojo, Roy and Belkar?

[Randomguy]

She was bringing mail, but the monster in the darkness ate it, so it wasn't the Order's fault.

[gallagher]

so now the question is: how will haley's dad adjust to the life outside? i cant wait to see haley do something incredibly stupid to prove to her dad that she isnt a kid anymore

[Blisstake]

so now the question is: how will haley's dad adjust to the life outside? i cant wait to see haley do something incredibly stupid to prove to her dad that she isnt a kid anymore

Or incredibly awesome.

[Orzel]

When I read Tarquin's mention of Sidekicks, I knew exactly what the Shoeless one would say.

I guess Roy took no cross class skills in Bluff. Fortunately they're is still an evil PC in the OotS.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Oh, what does Tarquin have up his sleeve?

[tcrudisi]

She was bringing mail, but the monster in the darkness ate it, so it wasn't the Order's fault.

Of course it was. This is Miko we are talking about. Anything bad that happened was the Order's fault.

[LuPuWei]

Tarquin has other long term plans in motion?
Not a surprise, but I'd be more comfortable if we knew what they are.



Any guesses on what this plan he wants Roy to work on is?

My personal guess is to take out a certain illusionist in the area, Roy and Belkar will be sent out under supervision of Tarquin's son and friends to see the job done.

I'm pretty sure the long-term plan Tarquin is refering to is simply his Continent-Domination scheme. He doesn't know that Roy knows about it already.

[deuxhero]

Are the crimes listed references to older strips/prequels?

[sims796]

Hrm, I'm not too sure about this. Tarquin seemed awfully upset at Roy's backtalk, and we know how he gets when people tries to "pull one over" on him. I hope the old guys are OK.

[Geordnet]

I'm pretty sure the long-term plan Tarquin is refering to is simply his Continent-Domination scheme. He doesn't know that Roy knows about it already.

Still though: what job in particular could he have him do? I'm willing to bet it'll be more subtle than a mere assassination...


Also, anyone else think that Tarquin will harbor some resentment over Roy's slight in panel 7?

Edit: Second idea ninja'd, lol.

Edit2: maybe he lets them out with nothing but their loincloths? Or not even that much... :smalleek::smalltongue:

[Flame of Anor]

Are the crimes listed references to older strips/prequels?

Racketeering = Thieves' Guild involvement?
Jury tampering = their trial in Azure City
Interfering with a mail carrier = not sure what this is

[Arancaytar]

"Well, I certainly appreciate a man who stands by his word." Can't get much more Lawful than that.

That was established in strip #50 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0050.html) (though it was decades ago, so he could have shifted to Neutral Evil or something in the meantime). "Appreciating" a man who stands by his word doesn't imply he is one himself...

[hamishspence]

Interfering with a mail carrier = not sure what this is

I speculated it was the killing of the messenger birds here:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0563.html

[MaximKat]

Hrm, I'm not too sure about this. Tarquin seemed awfully upset at Roy's backtalk, and we know how he gets when people tries to "pull one over" on him. I hope the old guys are OK.

Exactly. Note how Tarquin didn't say anything about the prisoners leaving the prison alive.

[Zigg'rrauglurr]

Got to say I love Belkar as an Evil Team Player, they are quite handy :smallamused:

[Douglas]

Hrm, I'm not too sure about this. Tarquin seemed awfully upset at Roy's backtalk, and we know how he gets when people tries to "pull one over" on him. I hope the old guys are OK.
He didn't seem happy about it, no, but it can't qualify as extortion the way the bounty hunter's demands did, it wasn't in front of his son, and Tarquin's smart enough to know there really is a lot to be said for a man who sticks by his word when you're looking to hire someone for shady jobs. A man who sticks by his word is one who won't take your money and then ditch the job or betray you. Betraying such a man first is usually a bad mistake, and I doubt Tarquin would do it.


I speculated it was the killing of the messenger birds here:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0563.html
Belkar still doesn't know those were messengers unless V told him off panel, which seems unlikely.

[cheesymetal]

ok, that was funny. humanoid resources. awesome.

[Psyren]

You think Belkar was bluffing about the unlawful acts the OotS has performed? I think he was being honest as hamishpence has demonstrated.

- Belkar doesn't know that they ate V's animal messenger back then, and it's not a legitimate "mail carrier" in any case.
- "Jury tampering" is also a stretch, since Eugene's involvement happened without their foreknowledge or assistance, and the judge was in on it.
- Roy has never racketeered as the Order is a legitimate business.

Belkar was just throwing out the first things to come into his head. Hence, Bluff.


Reposting my question: how do Kobolds get wings? Is he dragonborn? Isn't "dragonborn desert kobold" a munchkin calling-card?

[Boogastreehouse]

Yeah, Tarquin's return to the topic of Roy-recruitment (mentioned 60 episodes ago (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0753.html)), and now connecting it to his "long-term plans" certainly feels like a smooth segue back into the way he's going to eventually move them forward (or hinder them) with their main quest.

He's demonstrated that he knows who Draketooth is. I wonder if he knows anything about the gates. I strongly suspect that he does. That would definitely put Tarquin on the list of the nine (or more) sides (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0548.html) (mentioned by the demon roaches).

[H Birchgrove]

Great strip, well done Giant (as usual). :smallcool:

[Wonton]

Knowing Tarquin, something tells me it won't ever be as simple as "You walk away, no strings attached"...

[St Fan]

"... when I was your level."

Now, that's a big hint we have here that Tarquin is higher level than the OotS... and I'm ready to bet on much higher level, the way he's saying it.

[FlawedParadigm]

Shame Belkar's slated to die just as he starts becoming infinitely useful.

[Ron Miel]

We already know what Tarquin's ultimate plan is. He seeks someone to defeat him in a spectacular way so that his name becomes a legend. This is his ultimate goal. Carving out an empire is merely a stepping stone on that path.

[Hardcore]

:smallbiggrin:

[theweathergirl]

I'm thinking racketeering might be Haley and Belkar's involvement in the Resistance.
As for Tarquin, he might seem a bit annoyed but I don't think he's going to try to pull one over on Roy.

[hamishspence]

We already know what Tarquin's ultimate plan is. He seeks someone to defeat him in a spectacular way so that his name becomes a legend. This is his ultimate goal. Carving out an empire is merely a stepping stone on that path.

Not really:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0763.html

if you believe his statement here, it's only when he meets Elan that the "Even if I'm defeated, I'll become a legend" idea comes to him.

Before that, his primary goal is "rule the roost for years".

[ss49]

I didn't even try to think about what crimes Belkar was referring to. I thought he was just making things up.

Ian isn't an anonymous prisoner to Tarquin, though. Mightn't he renege once he learns who Roy wants pardoned?

And I'm still not sure releasing Ian is a good idea.

ETA: Although I did connect the mail reference to "mail fraud", which appears to be added to every US federal defendant since EVER, just because.

[denthor]

Belkar changes names and breathes his last breath as Belkar the barbarian his new name is.....?

[jedipilot24]

Jury tampering: the Azure City trial of course
Racketeering:#294-296 where Roy is milking as much as he can out of Shojo and also later when he tricks Shojo into lending him the Teleport Wizard.
Interference with a mail carrier: Belkar trying to get Miko to kill him.

Granted, this is all in the same kingdom instead of three different ones but I can't think of anythiing else.

[Incom]

Interfering with a mail carrier = Qarr (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0631.html)? Although this requires that the rest of the Order does know what was behind Darth V, sooooooooo maybe not.

[What'sThatThing]

Hmmm...I notice Kilkil saw Blackwing...

DOES THIS MEAN ANYTHING?

[Seraphem]

Hmmm...I notice Kilkil saw Blackwing...

DOES THIS MEAN ANYTHING?

From what I've noticed it seems that it's only people who knew about/saw Blackwing before he looked into the rift that don't notice/believe in him. Every one else has had no issues talking to/acknowledging him. What that means...who knows (yes I know The Giant does, but anyone else?)

[Onyavar]

Ok, I've seen several people thinking that Tarquin wants to send Roy to Girard and something.

But think about it: His long-term scheme involves assigning Roy as chief bodyguard to his son Elan, because he thinks that Elan will need some help. And THEN Tarquin will tell Elan (since Elan is team leader) where Girard holed up.

Off they go!
(Well, after breaking Durkon out of prison - his papers will soon run out, he has been on-panel for almost thirty strips now! And such things always happen when Malack isn't there to help.)

[Killer Angel]

Belkar: my favourite sidekick! :smallbiggrin:

[jidasfire]

As far as the mail carrier thing goes, I think Belkar is referring to Miko, since in her roundabout way, her job was to deliver messages and such for Shojo.

Also, it seems that this leg of the 5th arc is wrapping up, and we're probably going to be moving towards the endgame now. Of course, seeing as last time this happened, it was the start of the battle for Azure City, that indicates we probably still have a ways to go. Nevertheless, I am excited to see how this arc begins to move.

[Mutant Sheep]

I was almost expecting Roy to ask for Belkar to be executed, or be left there as the new champion. Since hes doomed and all, and Belkar hasn't really shown any "I am entirely motivated in the 'saving the world'" feelings, leaving him to slaughter people in front a crowd seems like a nice way to spend his last few weeks among the living.(Yeah yeah the "contract" and team loyalty and blah.)

[silas the monk]

Jury tampering: the Azure City trial of course
Racketeering:#294-296 where Roy is milking as much as he can out of Shojo and also later when he tricks Shojo into lending him the Teleport Wizard.
Interference with a mail carrier: Belkar trying to get Miko to kill him.


Interference with a mail carrier: 563 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0563.html)

[hamishspence]

I suggested that a couple of times:

I speculated it was the killing of the messenger birds here:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0563.html


"Interference with a mail carrier"- eating V's messenger birds in Don't Split the Party??

but counterarguments:



Belkar still doesn't know those were messengers unless V told him off panel, which seems unlikely.


- Belkar doesn't know that they ate V's animal messenger back then, and it's not a legitimate "mail carrier" in any case.

[rewinn]

Roy's putting on the Belt Of Gender Switching surely interfered with the male carrier :smallwink:

[Gusion]

Flying kobold... a reference to Deekin Scalesinger after he switches to Dragon Disciple?

Level 9 does give full wings...

[Whiffet]

This is why team-player Belkar is awesome. :smallbiggrin:

I should probably point out that Roy wanted Ian and Geoff to have "amnesty" and never said "let them go". So Tarquin can't kill the two and claim to have done what he said. Unless, of course, you consider execution to be a pardon.

[St Fan]

Flying kobold... a reference to Deekin Scalesinger after he switches to Dragon Disciple?

Level 9 does give full wings...

He's an Urd. A refugee from 2nd edition.

Yes, I know what you're gonna say, the Giant would never use monsters coming from previous editions (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0055.html)...

[Gidion]

Knowing Tarquin, something tells me it won't ever be as simple as "You walk away, no strings attached"...

True, Tarquin sounds reasonable right up and till the point the thumb screws come out:(
I am betting the "no strings attached" line come back to haunt Roy later. As in the strings are attached to someone Roy has just admitted he has some investment in AKA Haley's Dad

[Dusk Eclipse]

- Belkar doesn't know that they ate V's animal messenger back then, and it's not a legitimate "mail carrier" in any case.
- "Jury tampering" is also a stretch, since Eugene's involvement happened without their foreknowledge or assistance, and the judge was in on it.
- Roy has never racketeered as the Order is a legitimate business.

Belkar was just throwing out the first things to come into his head. Hence, Bluff.


Reposting my question: how do Kobolds get wings? Is he dragonborn? Isn't "dragonborn desert kobold" a munchkin calling-card?

You are thinking of Dragonwrought a feat which gives Kobolds the Dragon type (which in itself opens a BIG can of Wyrms).

There is also a first level feat called Dragon (nic?) Wings which give flight and it is available for all Dragonblooded character (Kobold are as per RotD) incidentally Dragonwrought allows them to take that feat at third level.

[MesiDoomstalker]

- Belkar doesn't know that they ate V's animal messenger back then, and it's not a legitimate "mail carrier" in any case.
- "Jury tampering" is also a stretch, since Eugene's involvement happened without their foreknowledge or assistance, and the judge was in on it.
- Roy has never racketeered as the Order is a legitimate business.

Belkar was just throwing out the first things to come into his head. Hence, Bluff.


Reposting my question: how do Kobolds get wings? Is he dragonborn? Isn't "dragonborn desert kobold" a munchkin calling-card?

Theres a feat in Races of Dragon, same book as Dragonborn, that gives Kobolds wings. Aptly called Draconic Wings I believe. A Dragonborn Kobold wouldn't look like a Kobold so much as a Kobold-shaped dragon.

EDIT: Gosh darn Pony Ninjas! :smallfurious:

[rbetieh]

This is why team-player Belkar is awesome. :smallbiggrin:

I should probably point out that Roy wanted Ian and Geoff to have "amnesty" and never said "let them go". So Tarquin can't kill the two and claim to have done what he said. Unless, of course, you consider execution to be a pardon.

I don't thin tarquin cares. One of the three (ian, geof, aunt lady) actually works for bozzok. One of the tree probably works for tarquin. Odds are T is in control no matter where they are.

[Whiffet]

I don't thin tarquin cares. One of the three (ian, geof, aunt lady) actually works for bozzok. One of the tree probably works for tarquin. Odds are T is in control no matter where they are.

There were some people who said Tarquin was going to kill them and claim that counted as "letting them go." I was just saying that can't happen, and it wouldn't make sense if it did. Who is working for who doesn't change that.

[pendell]

This seems strikingly parallel to the encounter with Lord Shojo in Azure City. In both cases, an agent of government authority ( a bounty hunter and a paladin with a mission) brings our heroes into contact with the local overlord , who provides information and the quest hook to bring them to the next stage of their journey. The fact that Shojo was chaotic good while Tarquin is lawful evil is, of course, a nice bit of poetic symmetry.

Still hoping that Nale and co. will be eliminated before the end of the arc. Simply having them disappear off stage like this is somewhat unsatisfying.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[martianmister]

Tarquin has other long term plans in motion?
Not a surprise, but I'd be more comfortable if we knew what they are.
Also, the charges Belkar claims Roy is running from are racketeering, jury tampering, and interfering with a mail carrier. Jury tampering is probably a reference to the trial in Azure City; can anyone think of what Belkar was referring to with the others?

Racketeering = Dungeon Crawling? Maybe this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0227.html)?

Jury tampering = Azure City Trial.

Interfering with a mail carrier = Miko.

[Gusion]

He's an Urd. A refugee from 2nd edition.

Yes, I know what you're gonna say, the Giant would never use monsters coming from previous editions (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0055.html)...

Meh. I admit the possibility but I'd really rather think he's a bad ass mofo kobold with 9 levels of dragon disciple. I mean, General Tarquin is a high level bad ass, so he wants to surround himself with high level badasses. He is the Chancellor after all, right?

P.S. Deekin was an awesome character.

[Lord Torath]

I loved this comic! Roy trying to bluff made me laugh out loud!


Racketeering = Dungeon Crawling? Maybe this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0227.html)?

Racketeering is extorting money from businesses as "protection" against a problem that you create/control. If they don't pay up, you unleash said "problem" on their home/place of business. Hence the term "Protection Racket."

Here's a prime example: Anyone remember that old Far Side comic with the angry homeowner in his front room with a broken window and a brick on the floor? The note on the brick read: "Brick through your window? Call Al's Windows!" Found link: http://www.lawsonforcongress.com/posts/bricks-thrown-through-window. I personally have no idea who "Lawson for Congress" is (nor do I care), but it was the first link to come up on Google.

I can't think of any time the Order has done anything like this. I think Belkar just drew on experiences from his pre-OotS adventuring life.

[Faramir]

"Cover story?"

Brilliant :)

[Gift Jeraff]

Ian isn't an anonymous prisoner to Tarquin, though. Mightn't he renege once he learns who Roy wants pardoned?I wouldn't be surprised if Tarquin has no idea who Ian is. I'm thinking only Miron (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0131.html) might remember who he is, and even then just as "some pesky rebel who seemed easy to catch (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0770.html)." It'd be a nice way to hurt Ian's ego and paranoia which make him think Tarquin cares specifically about him.

[MoonCat]

Hmmm...I notice Kilkil saw Blackwing...

DOES THIS MEAN ANYTHING?

Eveyone can see him, but they thinks it's an illusion, here. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0674.html)


Interference with a mail carrier: 563 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0563.html)

Belkar likely doesn't know, and even if he does, Roy had nothing to do with it.

[Cizak]

I was almost expecting Roy to ask for Belkar to be executed, or be left there as the new champion. Since hes doomed and all, and Belkar hasn't really shown any "I am entirely motivated in the 'saving the world'" feelings, leaving him to slaughter people in front a crowd seems like a nice way to spend his last few weeks among the living.(Yeah yeah the "contract" and team loyalty and blah.)

It's not really about contracts and team loyalty anymore (was it ever with Belkar?). Now it's "Belkar will die soon, and for some reason he tries to fool us into thinking he's a better person now. So I'll let him keep up with that and he'll stay with us, giving us a strong ally against Xykon."

[t209]

Racketeering = Dungeon Crawling? Maybe this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0227.html)?

Jury tampering = Azure City Trial.

Interfering with a mail carrier = Miko.

Your link for Rackteering sounds more like Impersonating Authority.

[Asthix]

Mr. Scruffy!!!

Also, Pardon Me, epic pun.

[eusticepious]

The same thing was true about Mr. Scruffy's old master.



Knowing Tarquin, something tells me it won't ever be as simple as "You walk away, no strings attached"...

[Burner28]

Belkar changes names and breathes his last breath as Belkar the barbarian his new name is.....?

Or maybe he just dies!:smalltongue:

[Landis963]

Hmmmm... Belkar's taken some leaves out of the Oracle's book.

Wanted in several jurisdictions: Were wanted in Azure City, Now wanted in Gobbotopia, Elan was wanted in Cliffport, Belkar, Haley, and Celia were wanted in Greysky, the list goes on and on.

Racketeering: Rescuing Celia and Roy's body back from Grubwiggler. At the time, he didn't know which protection racket they were exploiting, but he would have known after they joined forces with Bozzok for the night.

Jury tampering: Say it with me now: "Their trial under Lord Shojo and Horace "Avatar of Justice" Greenhilt"

interfering with a mail carrier: Maybe Miko? Maybe the birds? I can see the arguments against both (mainly, "when would Belkar know about either of these?"), but I'm not sure what else to put under this. I'm also not certain that he's lying about this - Why would he? Ironic contrast? It doesn't directly benefit him, except for the slight amusement factor. Besides, their continued freedom in the Empire of Blood depends on Kilkil not getting the joke. To take advantage of his Bluff score? He's not the designated liar, that's Haley. This whole statement is in the grey area between lying and "twas a mechanical defect," so maybe the D&D buffs here can tell me how such a phrase would relate to Bluff.

[jere7my]

He's an Urd. A refugee from 2nd edition.

Urds weren't official in 3.5, but they made it through the concept art stage:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mm_gallery/KoboldLizardTrogUrd.jpg

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mm_gallery/KoboldLizardTrogUrd.jpg

[King of Nowhere]

so, in the end, roy managed to jailbreak, with belkar and the two haley's relatives, in a perfectly lawful way. Amazing.

Plus, Tarquin mentioned "when i was your level" to roy, and he saw roy figthing, so he should really know with a good accuracy roy's level, so we can conclude that tarquin is higher level than roy. We don't know how much.
Irt also stand to reason that malak should be on equal footing with tarquin, so he probably have access to at least 8th level slots.

[brionl]

From the way Tarquin is talking, it sounds like he actually hasn't figured out that Roy & Belkar are in Elan's party. I'm a little disappointed.

And from that picture, it looks like KilKil isn't an Urd, since he has both arms & wings. Probably just has a feat from the Races of the Dragon book.

[Gift Jeraff]

Irt also stand to reason that malak should be on equal footing with tarquin, so he probably have access to at least 8th level slots.There's like a 3 level gap in the OOTS (Roy was 13th level before he died, Haley was at least 15th level in the last book), plus Malack presumably has a level adjustment for his race.

[Blaznak]

What a cool episode. The "reason for being here" was a hoot!
Later!

[Shoelessgdowar]

- Belkar doesn't know that they ate V's animal messenger back then, and it's not a legitimate "mail carrier" in any case.
- "Jury tampering" is also a stretch, since Eugene's involvement happened without their foreknowledge or assistance, and the judge was in on it.
- Roy has never racketeered as the Order is a legitimate business.

Belkar was just throwing out the first things to come into his head. Hence, Bluff.


Reposting my question: how do Kobolds get wings? Is he dragonborn? Isn't "dragonborn desert kobold" a munchkin calling-card?


I was almost expecting Roy to ask for Belkar to be executed, or be left there as the new champion. Since hes doomed and all, and Belkar hasn't really shown any "I am entirely motivated in the 'saving the world'" feelings, leaving him to slaughter people in front a crowd seems like a nice way to spend his last few weeks among the living.(Yeah yeah the "contract" and team loyalty and blah.)


Hmmmm... Belkar's taken some leaves out of the Oracle's book.

Wanted in several jurisdictions: Were wanted in Azure City, Now wanted in Gobbotopia, Elan was wanted in Cliffport, Belkar, Haley, and Celia were wanted in Greysky, the list goes on and on.

Racketeering: Rescuing Celia and Roy's body back from Grubwiggler. At the time, he didn't know which protection racket they were exploiting, but he would have known after they joined forces with Bozzok for the night.

Jury tampering: Say it with me now: "Their trial under Lord Shojo and Horace "Avatar of Justice" Greenhilt"

interfering with a mail carrier: Maybe Miko? Maybe the birds? I can see the arguments against both (mainly, "when would Belkar know about either of these?"), but I'm not sure what else to put under this. I'm also not certain that he's lying about this - Why would he? Ironic contrast? It doesn't directly benefit him, except for the slight amusement factor. Besides, their continued freedom in the Empire of Blood depends on Kilkil not getting the joke. To take advantage of his Bluff score? He's not the designated liar, that's Haley. This whole statement is in the grey area between lying and "twas a mechanical defect," so maybe the D&D buffs here can tell me how such a phrase would relate to Bluff.

Belkar is not bluffing, as seen by his reaction to Roy thinking he's lying at the end and thanking him for it. It is to show further proof of how Roy still thinks Belkar's lies are truth and truth are lies.

Also, ignorance of a crime doesn't make Roy innocent of being an accessory to them.

Let's just skip the Mail Carrier reference, as there are two decently valid theories that can be argued, and Belkar implies to know of whatever interference he is inferring about.

Yes, the Thieves Guild is involved in Racketeering, heavily, and Celia negotiated to make Haley a member again, which makes Haley and Belkar's rescue of Roy's body a part of that Racketeering, and it was outright said as such. Just because Roy is ignorant of the crime doesn't make him, as the Leader of the Order (despite being dead at the time) responsible for his Team
Member's and Girlfriend's actions on his behalf.

In addition, as was pointed out, Roy did essentially run a lesser racket, a services and side quest racket, on Shojo with the misuse of the wizard and resources of Azure City. Just because he didn't have actual money gains does not mean it was not a profitable venture that was made to seem like one type of business (Gate Protecting/Investigating) when it was in fact another (Nale hunting)

And Roy's dad personally Jury Tampered, which Roy knows. Again, just because Roy didn't personally commit the crime himself does not make him any less guilty of allowing it to happen.


Belkar didn't need to lie, he just used Knowledge (Streetwise) and/or made a Intelligence Check to remember what crimes they had actually committed in the past, and mentioned them.


As for Kilkil, he is definitely an Urd... which I was so ecstatic about when I first saw him... I played an Urd in the last AD&D Campaign I was in, and adore the little winged Kobolds, they're soooooo awesome. Heck, I've been trying to talk with a DM about making a Halfling counterpart (Flying Halfling with Slings and rocks... DEATH FROM ABOVE!!!). Kilkil is my favorite EoB character just cause he is an Urd. I'm so glad he gets to live and isn't going to be Belkar's next art project... I was worried cause his name is a homophone for Kill-Kill, and people did propose him for Yukyuk's spot (though Yukyuk was obviously the next Kobold Guild member... his name follows the naming scheme).


As for why Roy didn't suggest Belkar to be then new Champ or executed is obvious, he already told Haley he intends to use Belkar as long as he can. As long as Belkar is combat capable and willing, Roy sees him as a resource to be used until he dies, so why squander him or dispose of him before his usefulness is finished?

[H Birchgrove]

Interference with a mail carrier: 563 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0563.html)

Belkar: Master Chef! :smallbiggrin:

But that means Belkar knew those were from V! :smalleek: (I don't think Haley would've been that careless, to eat magical birds that would re-tell what V wanted to tell them.)

[Gusion]

From the way Tarquin is talking, it sounds like he actually hasn't figured out that Roy & Belkar are in Elan's party. I'm a little disappointed.

Don't be so sure. That may be exactly why Tarquin is so confident that Roy will accept... it may be something like, "I need you to guard my son with your life. He needs to become a great and powerful person for when he finally kills me so I will be remembered forever."


And from that picture, it looks like KilKil isn't an Urd, since he has both arms & wings. Probably just has a feat from the Races of the Dragon book.

Bah. Dragon disciple. :smallbiggrin:

[dsavereide]

Hand me that pamplet... Belkar actually planning for the future!

[Bedinsis]

But that means Belkar knew those were from V!

Or more probable, that Vaarsuvius told Haley and Belkar that s/he tried contacting them by means of enchanted birds and asked whether they ever encountered them.

[JSSheridan]

This is why team-player Belkar is awesome. :smallbiggrin:

I should probably point out that Roy wanted Ian and Geoff to have "amnesty" and never said "let them go". So Tarquin can't kill the two and claim to have done what he said. Unless, of course, you consider execution to be a pardon.

You can pardon someone postmortem.

[mandos9]

hey, in the first frame notice how the flying kobold stares at V's familiar. it doesnt seem to serve any comedy purposes. maybe its a hint that tarquin will realize the connection of roy to elan? Apart from the fact his genre-saviness tells him two high level pc's cant appear at the same time by chance.

[jere7my]

And from that picture, it looks like KilKil isn't an Urd, since he has both arms & wings. Probably just has a feat from the Races of the Dragon book.

Remember that that's just concept art. In D&D, monster appearances varied a lot from one interpretation to the next. Here's how they looked in 2E:

http://www.lomion.de/cmm/img/urd.gif

http://www.lomion.de/cmm/img/urd.gif

[Jamini]

I just did a little archive browsing, and found something interesting that I'm sure some, but not all, of you have probably noticed.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0762.html

I suspect the job that Tarquin wants Roy to do is act as a bodyguard for his son. So that he not only survives his world-spanning quest and return later for a proper hero vs evil villain duel. It's Ironic enough to work, and fairly well foreshadowed.

[Tobimaro]

Belkar as a sidekick? How about comic relief? :smallwink:

And you have to love a nation with a Qualified Fugitive Assistance Program. :smallsmile:

[Pterocards]

As for Kilkil, he is definitely an Urd... which I was so ecstatic about when I first saw him... I played an Urd in the last AD&D Campaign I was in, and adore the little winged Kobolds, they're soooooo awesome. Heck, I've been trying to talk with a DM about making a Halfling counterpart (Flying Halfling with Slings and rocks... DEATH FROM ABOVE!!!). Kilkil is my favorite EoB character just cause he is an Urd. I'm so glad he gets to live and isn't going to be Belkar's next art project... I was worried cause his name is a homophone for Kill-Kill, and people did propose him for Yukyuk's spot (though Yukyuk was obviously the next Kobold Guild member... his name follows the naming scheme).


That's not the only way Kobolds can get wings! they could take the Abberant Blood feats and get "Starspawn" which grants you wings. That's what I did for my Kobold *Points to Avatar*
But that was before I found the DragonWrought feat....However he IS likely an Urd! I mini-freaked too when I first saw him! :smallbiggrin:

[Ron Miel]

Belkar changes names and breathes his last breath as Belkar the barbarian his new name is.....?

I've previously suggested that his new name will be Rakleb.

[Blisstake]

I think Kilkil is just a kobold with wings. No further explanation necesary.

[Chainer-]

I'm not a D&D player or anything but it seems to me Belkar was listing typically Lawful Evil crimes?

[DougTheHead]

She was bringing mail, but the monster in the darkness ate it, so it wasn't the Order's fault.

Notice that the penalty is for interfering with the carrier of the mail, not the mail itself.

On another point, I'm sure Tarquin has noted that Roy won't be breaking his vow (I'm not leaving without them) if he's carrying two corpses out of jail.

[Anarion]

Seems like Belkar chose his list of crimes judiciously, not mentioning things like destroying the gates, working behind the back of an order of paladins (sure it's vaguely evil, but mostly chaotic) or faking their identity leading to a burned down inn and massive property damage.

Nope, all lawful evil crimes that the Empire not only tolerates, but supports amongst its residents.

[Bubbles]

Or Kilkil's wings could be a class feature. Like being at least a 9th level Dragon Disciple. In a realm with a figurehead dragon empress.

[weeping eagle]

As in the strings are attached to someone Roy has just admitted he has some investment in AKA Haley's DadI'm guessing that Tarquin's going to hold someone hostage to ensure that Roy holds up his side of the bargain. Possibly a member of the Order.

[Ridureyu]

3.5 has winged kobolds. There's even a miniature of one.

Anyway...

Thog is Schrodinger's Cat!

[dtilque]

I think Belkar just drew on experiences from his pre-OotS adventuring life.

That would be my guess too. The Order may have done similar things, but they haven't been charged with them. Or as far as we know, even had wanted posters put up for them. Which is what's required for them to be fugitives from the law. I expect Belkar is wanted for those crimes (among others), but for actions from before he met Roy.

Did anyone else notice that Roy is no longer injured? Someone must have gotten him that healing potion off-screen.

[StrykerX]

Heh... why do I get the feeling that the only word of Belkar's story that was actually a lie is "we"? :smallamused:

[Karoug]

...maybe a chain-mail carrier? now, that would be a long list...

[Bulldog Psion]

My personal opinion is that these are all references to Belkar's innumerable pre-OotS crimes (see the "Buggy Lou" incident -- Belkar could truthfully say he was involved in slave trading, also, though the Order as a whole hasn't).

IMO, invoking weird, far-fetched explanations in terms of the Order's adventures to explain what the halfling says is just reading too much into the statements, because Belkar probably committed literally every crime in the book before Roy started restraining him a bit -- and probably invented a few crimes, too.

But, of course, that's only my opinion.

[Klytus]

Of course, "interfering with a mail carrier" could just have been tossed in there for comic effect...

"Wanted for aggravated assault, resisting arrest, and flagrant jaywalking."

[HandofShadows]

Ah Roy sticks to his guns ethicaly. Two points for him. :smallcool:

[M.A.D]

There was no interfering with V's mail carriers, as they have actually reached their destinations and got eaten by their clients

[irenicObserver]

humanoid resources, ha! and a nice foreshadowing of Thog's inevitable return.

Don't get your hope up, it's rather ambiguous

[Chirios]

Question: How much XP will Roy have gained from beating Thog? Shouldn't he have levelled up again?

[Skios]

I was almost expecting Roy to ask for Belkar to be executed, or be left there as the new champion. Since hes doomed and all, and Belkar hasn't really shown any "I am entirely motivated in the 'saving the world'" feelings, leaving him to slaughter people in front a crowd seems like a nice way to spend his last few weeks among the living.(Yeah yeah the "contract" and team loyalty and blah.)Even without the contract and team loyalty, Roy would never leave Belkar in a position that would essentially make him the executioner in a system that puts the death penalty on public urination.

[Chirios]

Question: How much XP will Roy have gained from beating Thog? Shouldn't he have levelled up again?

[Peelee]

I'm pretty sure the long-term plan Tarquin is refering to is simply his Continent-Domination scheme. He doesn't know that Roy knows about it already.

Wait, DOES Roy know about that scheme already? I don't remember anyone telling him or him eavesdropping on anything. All Roy knows is Tarquin was going to tell the rest of the party about Draketooth after the games.... at last so far as I recall

[Gift Jeraff]

Wait, DOES Roy know about that scheme already? I don't remember anyone telling him or him eavesdropping on anything. All Roy knows is Tarquin was going to tell the rest of the party about Draketooth after the games.... at last so far as I recallGeoff and Ian told Roy while Tarquin was telling Elan about it.

[Peelee]

Geoff and Ian told Roy while Tarquin was telling Elan about it.

Ahhhh, thanks. I always forget about those guys

[Gusion]

Question: How much XP will Roy have gained from beating Thog? Shouldn't he have levelled up again?

Short answer is... we don't know. From a pure strict calculation, not really that much, even if Thog was a couple levels above Roy.

However, I think most DMs would provide extra XP for style, applying knowledge skill points to battle, etc.

Whether or not he leveled depends on when he last leveled though, and that's unknown. Another level of fighter doesn't really mean anything for us though, so it doesn't really matter. If he does choose something non-fighter, I assume Giant will mention it directly.

[Gorm_the_DBA]

Shame Belkar's slated to die just as he starts becoming infinitely useful.

Well...you know...

seeing as how one relatively common way for someone to enter witness protection (AKA "Qualified Fugitive Assistance Program") is for their death to be faked....

Just saying...

This could well be a way for Giant to write Belkar back into the script


and /wildspeculationunencumberedbyactualknowledge

[luc258]

Tarquin wants Thog dead.
The only reason he hasn't killed him yet is because he was too popular to the crowd. But right now:

1) Roy is the shiny new guy
2) He can easily claim that Thog was killed by the debris
3) he can claim that Thog lateron died from his injuries if for some reason he survives and still wants to kill him

There is no better moment for Tarquin to get rid off Thog and Tarquin is vengeful and a killer. I'd be surprised if Thog makes it out of that situation alive.

[Kish]

Well...you know...

seeing as how one relatively common way for someone to enter witness protection (AKA "Qualified Fugitive Assistance Program") is for their death to be faked....

Just saying...

This could well be a way for Giant to write Belkar back into the script


and /wildspeculationunencumberedbyactualknowledge
Because, of course, the Oracle totally said "some number of people outside the Order will think Belkar has died."

[KoboldRevenge]

So what are we doing sidequest city for Tarquin now?

Or is he just gonna double cross them and they have to make a daring escape?

[SoC175]

Question: How much XP will Roy have gained from beating Thog? Shouldn't he have levelled up again?Assuming they were equal level it would be app. 1/3 of the XP he needed to gain a level.

[Peelee]

So what are we doing sidequest city for Tarquin now?

Or is he just gonna double cross them and they have to make a daring escape?

I think the dominant theory (which I subscribe to) floating around is that his plans involve Draketooth. So it's more putting them back on the rails, so to speak

[FujinAkari]

So what are we doing sidequest city for Tarquin now?

Or is he just gonna double cross them and they have to make a daring escape?

A pretty popular theory is that Tarquin is going to assign Roy to watch over and protect his son who is on some crazy "save the world" thing

[Raistlin82]

Yeah, Roy, step aside and let the professionist take care of it.

Hehehehehehe, funny comic.

And Roy managed to bail Haley's dad out! It's funny, when she wakes up, she'll find out that being attacked (and thus petrified) by the LG is the best thing that could happen to her, since it led to this. :smallsmile:

[Shoelessgdowar]

Because, of course, the Oracle totally said "some number of people outside the Order will think Belkar has died."

Actually, when you get a new identity, your name changes, your birthday changes, you lose your IRA... Belkar will not be Belkar, so Belkar will draw his last breath ever.

The Oracle 1) doesn't matter, he's a crook and a charlatan, so don't waste time using him as an argument for anything. He also said Belkar would cause THE death of a list of people, none of which was true. He also claimed Haley's voice would be a result of a gift horse, when none has ever appeared, and only 1 statement the Oracle made about Belkar's alleged death was anything besides a snide remark, 2) if you must be foolish enough to give any credence to the Oracle, then accept if his convoluted lies are to be acknowledged, then death is too simplistic an answer, and therefore the truth will be a twist on his words (Last Breath Ever is a blade Belkar will draw, Belkar will get a new identity and therefore will draw his last breath ever as Belkar and then will be breathing under his new identity, Belkar already fulfilled the Prophecy when he evolved into the new version of Belkar who is different from the old version)

[Peelee]

Actually, when you get a new identity, your name changes, your birthday changes, you lose your IRA... Belkar will not be Belkar, so Belkar will draw his last breath ever.

The Oracle 1) doesn't matter, he's a crook and a charlatan, so don't waste time using him as an argument for anything. He also said Belkar would cause THE death of a list of people, none of which was true. He also claimed Haley's voice would be a result of a gift horse, when none has ever appeared, and only 1 statement the Oracle made about Belkar's alleged death was anything besides a snide remark, 2) if you must be foolish enough to give any credence to the Oracle, then accept if his convoluted lies are to be acknowledged, then death is too simplistic an answer, and therefore the truth will be a twist on his words (Last Breath Ever is a blade Belkar will draw, Belkar will get a new identity and therefore will draw his last breath ever as Belkar and then will be breathing under his new identity, Belkar already fulfilled the Prophecy when he evolved into the new version of Belkar who is different from the old version)

...Never before have I witnessed Poe's Law be exemplified so well

[hamishspence]

Belkar asked "Will I get to cause the death of any of the following" - the Oracle said "Yes".

The "gift horse" was Elan (Nale in disguise) inviting her to a romantic dinner. She did not look it in the mouth.

From War & XPs: Round 2: The Giant's description of the prophesies:


The sequence ends with Nale's message to Roy, which kicks off the next plot arc but also serves to immediately reinforce the fact that the Oracle's prophesies are For Real. In his casual conversation, he had noted that Roy and Elan were "running late for a couple of family reunions," referring to Nale's imminent plot to capture Elan by kidnapping Roy's sister.

Don't Split The Party: Round 4:

I know a lot of fans assume that I was making fun of fan theories in strip #567, where the Oracle explains how Belkar's prophery "came true," but the fact is that those theories were only possible because I had written Roy's death in such a way as to encourage exactly those thoughts.
...
Belkar's entire prophesy was, ultimately, my send-up of misleading prophesies in fantasy fiction and how they are often explained after the fact in incredibly unsatisfying ways. In the end though, the prophesy was straightforward.

Don't Split the Party: Round 6:
The Oracle pulled the same trick on both V and the readers: replying positively to a phrase that connoted one thing, but only actually denoted a lesser thing.
...
The question then becomes, did events come to pass as the Oracle predicted? Yes. The being in question? Vaarsuvius him/herself. The four words?" I...I must succeed, spoken at the end of strip #634.


The idea that "The Oracle is a crook and a charlatan" is rather clearly countered by these statements in the books.

Can we get back to discussing strip #513? #813?

[MoonCat]

Can we get back to discussing strip #513?

Certainly. I thought Tsukiko's care for the wights was quite cute, and the light system was funny. :smalltongue:

[hamishspence]

Oops.

Still, my point was still valid- the "Belkar's prophesy" topic already has a thread.

[Anarchy_Kanya]

Roy: "Was he? Thog, I mean. Is he dead?"
Tarquin: "We won't know until we dig him out, I'm afraid."
:smallbiggrin: Good one, Rich.

[DougTheHead]

Question: How much XP will Roy have gained from beating Thog? Shouldn't he have levelled up again?

Characters in OOTS seem to level up when they wake up the next morning. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0124.html)

Also, no way are they going to find Thog's body in the rubble. Some genre standards simply can't be ignored.

[Gift Jeraff]

Characters in OOTS seem to level up when they wake up the next morning. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0124.html)Not always. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0508.html)

[thereaper]

They level up when they notice they have enough XP to do so.

You can see the same concept at play here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0034.html).

[CrazyBlue]

From the way Tarquin is talking, it sounds like he actually hasn't figured out that Roy & Belkar are in Elan's party. I'm a little disappointed.

It seems a bit convoluted for Tarquin to be putting on an act at this point. Such a shame, I thought that him making the connection would be reasonable.

[SamBurke]

AWESOME JOKE. Great last-panel work, there, Rich.

[Zea mays]

Notice that the penalty is for interfering with the carrier of the mail, not the mail itself.

On another point, I'm sure Tarquin has noted that Roy won't be breaking his vow (I'm not leaving without them) if he's carrying two corpses out of jail.

Then Roy can just get a cleric to resurrect the two corpses.
It hardly seems worth the effort to kill them.

[Joxer t' Mighty]

Was gonna comment about Roy and his XP as well. If Thog was a 'superior' combatant, Roy should be getting some serious wampum.

Please, Roy, take a PrC already... in some thread it was determined Roy is at least 12th level. That's a minimum 13 feats for a human fighter.

Actually, now that I look it up, there aren't actually a lot of fighter friendly PrC's without going into really odd areas.

[Raistlin82]

They level up when they notice they have enough XP to do so.

You can see the same concept at play here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0034.html).

That is a vaguely related example. And I guess this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0001.html) could be as well.

This (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0125.html), however, is the perfect example. And it's just one strip after the Haley one. :smallwink:

[Xorbon]

B'jesus! People read so much into character's actions on this forum!

(IMO, of course:)
#1. Blackwing was not adversely affected by the Snarl. The fact that he's ignored by the Order is JUST a JOKE! (The joke, of course, being based on the fact that V previously ignored Blackwing in past comics.) It's not some magical side-effect caused by looking into the rift, or whatever.
#2. The simplest explanation of Belkar's statement to Kilkil (in panel 9 of this comic) was that he was referencing his own experiences, pre-OOTS. He even says, "Spoken like a man who's never had to flee a jurisdiction in his life." which would seem to indicate that that Roy was never part of any of those acts.

I sometimes get the feeling that readers of this comic like to shake up the trees just for the hell of it.

Here. Let me try.

*rattle rattle rattle*

[factotum]

#1. Blackwing was not adversely affected by the Snarl. The fact that he's ignored by the Order is JUST a JOKE! (The joke, of course, being based on the fact that V previously ignored Blackwing in past comics.)

However, part of that joke was that the other members of the Order would remember V had a familiar even when V himself didn't--see strip #154, for instance, where both Haley and Belkar remember him having one. How come they've suddenly forgotten he has one now? And if it's just a joke, why has it been repeated twice now?

[turkishproverb]

And if it's just a joke, why has it been repeated twice now?
..

Running. Gag.

[faustin]

I sometimes get the feeling that readers of this comic like to shake up the trees just for the hell of it.

Here. Let me try.

*rattle rattle rattle*

Welcome to internet forums :biggrin::tongue:

*rattle rattle rattle rattle rattle rattle*

[PitViper]

Great new comic Giant. It seems Tarquin really puts the lawful back in lawful evil! :smallsmile:

[FujinAkari]

How come they've suddenly forgotten he has one now? And if it's just a joke, why has it been repeated twice now?

They... didn't?

They immediately recognize Blackwing as V's familiar, they just don't believe he can talk since he hasn't before.

[Lynn]

I think Tarquin is my favorite evil character ever. I bet Roy and Belkar willfind themselves working for him at some point. I can see many ways it could happen:

T hires them to escort his son and his party to Girard' Gate.
:tarquin: My son leads a fine party but they strangely lake melee combatants.

T already knows who Roy wants to free tanks to his spie(s). He is having Ian executed right now. As long as he does it before being confirmed who he should release, he is not breaking the contract. Standard procedure is to destroy the corpses but he will have them resurrected instead if Roy does him a favor.
:tarquin: It's not blackmail, It's an exchange of services.

Roy accepts whatever mission T gives him only to hijack the resources put at his disposal to save the world. (Roy is not all that lawful and so far his plan was to hold as much information as possible from Tarquin). That will bite him in the back later.

[Pandabear]

That was just priceless :smallbiggrin:

[factotum]

They... didn't?

They immediately recognize Blackwing as V's familiar, they just don't believe he can talk since he hasn't before.

Try re-reading strip #674, where they don't recognise Blackwing a V's familiar at all. In strip #854 they basically assume the bird is some sort of Magic Mouth analogue rather than a familiar of any kind.

[MoonCat]

Try re-reading strip #674, where they don't recognise Blackwing a V's familiar at all. In strip #854 they basically assume the bird is some sort of Magic Mouth analogue rather than a familiar of any kind.

You are a very lucky person. :smalltongue:

My own two cents, they can see the raven, but they assume it doesn't exist, either as an illusion or as a Magic Mouth?

[Gift Jeraff]

Roy and Belkar seem to accept that Blackwing is a living creature, but they think he's only talking as the result of a spell, similar to Vaarsuvius' Greater Animal Messenger (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0563.html).

Haley also seems to now know that Blackwing is not an illusion. ("Hey, you're the one who started hanging out with animals all of a sudden." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0775.html))

[factotum]

You are a very lucky person. :smalltongue:


How on earth did I substitute 854 for 809? Apart from the first number they're not even remotely similar! :smallmad:

[Sith_Happens]

It seems a bit convoluted for Tarquin to be putting on an act at this point. Such a shame, I thought that him making the connection would be reasonable.

I wouldn't put it past him at all to be putting on an act at this point, especially given just how reasonable it would be for him to make the connection. Think about it: Two high level characters (Roy and Belkar) with PC gear-value totals arrive in town at pretty much the same time as Elan, and are apprehended after a confrontation with the bounty hunters who brought in Elan. Narratively speaking, that has to mean something, and it would only take a few divinations from Malack to find out exactly what.

[EnragedFilia]

Was gonna comment about Roy and his XP as well. If Thog was a 'superior' combatant, Roy should be getting some serious wampum.

Please, Roy, take a PrC already... in some thread it was determined Roy is at least 12th level. That's a minimum 13 feats for a human fighter.

Actually, now that I look it up, there aren't actually a lot of fighter friendly PrC's without going into really odd areas.

But just think how many jokes we could get out of a Purple Dragon Knight (https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:NCfQ4IvZEjMJ:www.wizards.com/dnd/files/excerpts/FRPreview_PG_PDKnight.pdf+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgXjYkZRznbkN8TisgtFFMU4SEHEgeMrGbkdTMB LgUJBYWnx1dE9F33zOMrhwBHKvUs2v1FneO4Lt7WzhPsjmcKml vfRy1MeI1T1GMZPdFWkSaMV1hClM3_zOXhTFColCMFm3Fu&sig=AHIEtbTBz8X3EHerDbsMpLJpWx7bkU7dpA)!

[Gift Jeraff]

I wouldn't put it past him at all to be putting on an act at this point, especially given just how reasonable it would be for him to make the connection. Think about it: Two high level characters (Roy and Belkar) with PC gear-value totals arrive in town at pretty much the same time as Elan, and are apprehended after a confrontation with the bounty hunters who brought in Elan. Narratively speaking, that has to mean something, and it would only take a few divinations from Malack to find out exactly what.Also, the fact that the elf's "pets" are hanging out with them, coupled in with Elan's poor acting (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0780.html)...

[Forikroder]

I wouldn't put it past him at all to be putting on an act at this point, especially given just how reasonable it would be for him to make the connection. Think about it: Two high level characters (Roy and Belkar) with PC gear-value totals arrive in town at pretty much the same time as Elan, and are apprehended after a confrontation with the bounty hunters who brought in Elan. Narratively speaking, that has to mean something, and it would only take a few divinations from Malack to find out exactly what.

that only assumes he actually put enough effort in to actually figure out when Roy and Belkar were brought in

hes been busy with the parade and his newly arrived son and escaped slaves on top of his regular duties so its not impossible he wasnt keeping insanely close tabs on who was brought in when

and he saids hed give roy amnesty for whatever he was brought in for so he doesnt know they fought with the bounty hunter and didnt have there papers

[Scarlet Knight]

B'jesus! People read so much into character's actions on this forum!

I sometimes get the feeling that readers of this comic like to shake up the trees just for the hell of it.

Here. Let me try.

*rattle rattle rattle*

What do you call a poster in an epileptic tree...Russell...:smallwink:

[Izar Goldbranch]

He's an Urd. A refugee from 2nd edition.

Yes, I know what you're gonna say, the Giant would never use monsters coming from previous editions (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0055.html)...

I was thinking he was just a dragonwrought kobold. That's 3.5e.

[MesiDoomstalker]

I was thinking he was just a dragonwrought kobold. That's 3.5e.

I'd like to point out again that Dragonwrought does not grant wings. Thats the Dragonwings feat right above the Dragonwrought feat in the same book. The only connection between these feats is that they are both 1st level only but Dragonwrought lets you take Dragonwings at 3rd level.

[hamishspence]

There's also the Winged template from Savage Species (which also has rules for half-ogres, which have appeared at least once in-strip).

[rbetieh]

There's also the Winged template from Savage Species (which also has rules for half-ogres, which have appeared at least once in-strip).

I like to believe in the Dragon Desciple explanation, because that would give KillKill a Str over 20 and would be a hilarious moment of come-uppance for Belkar when he eventually decides to kill the Kobold, cuz thats his "thing".

[FlawedParadigm]

There's also the Winged template from Savage Species (which also has rules for half-ogres, which have appeared at least once in-strip).

At least twice. The spiked chain half-ogre, half-(presumably)human, and Enor, half-ogre, half-dragon.

[hamishspence]

Current theories tend toward Enor being a ogre with the half-dragon template, rather than a half-ogre with the half-dragon template- but a case can be made for either.

[veti]

I'd just like to say, that was probably the funniest strip I've seen since the Order arrived on this continent. Thank you, Giant.

It's also surely a clear indication that Thog is still alive. When a recurring villain "dies" in circumstances that leave room for doubt, there can only be one outcome. And Roy and Tarquin have both just agreed that in their expert opinion, there is room for doubt. I wonder what Tarquin has in mind for him?

Edit:

Flying kobold... a reference to Deekin Scalesinger after he switches to Dragon Disciple?

Thanks, now I'm going to hear "Deekin?" every time I see that character.

I think it's unlikely to be an intentional reference. If the Giant had ever been a Neverwinter Nights fan, I would expect some allusion to have crept in before this.

But you never know.

[FujinAkari]

It's also surely a clear indication that Thog is still alive. When a recurring villain "dies" in circumstances that leave room for doubt, there can only be one outcome.

Nope, its a clear indication that Thog is dead. Tarquin has been trying to kill him for ages, is telling the populace that Thog died, and is the one digging Thog out.

[veti]

Nope, its a clear indication that Thog is dead. Tarquin has been trying to kill him for ages, is telling the populace that Thog died, and is the one digging Thog out.

Yeah, but there's a difference between "trying to kill someone because you really seriously want them dead" and "trying to kill someone because it's the easiest and safest thing to do with them". I think Tarquin would love to keep Thog alive and use him, if he thought he could exercise enough control.

Killing a villain of Thog's stature such that the actual death happens off-panel - would be very unconventional. Okay, it could be done, but it'll take some pretty solid eyewitness testimony before I believe it.

[rbetieh]

Yeah, but there's a difference between "trying to kill someone because you really seriously want them dead" and "trying to kill someone because it's the easiest and safest thing to do with them". I think Tarquin would love to keep Thog alive and use him, if he thought he could exercise enough control.

Killing a villain of Thog's stature such that the actual death happens off-panel - would be very unconventional. Okay, it could be done, but it'll take some pretty solid eyewitness testimony before I believe it.


Thog is the most easily controlled character thus far. All you need is Ice Cream, Puppies, and Friendship. So long as you explain to him that killing this or that head of state is a game, he'll just do it. If Tarquin doesnt want him, either Thog hates Tarquin or Tarquin thinks the Ice Cream costs are too high...

[Sith_Happens]

Killing a villain of Thog's stature such that the actual death happens off-panel - would be very unconventional. Okay, it could be done, but it'll take some pretty solid eyewitness testimony before I believe it.

It would also be extremely anti-climactic, which is exactly why Tarquin is going to make sure that he's on-panel when he does it.:smallwink:

[rbetieh]

It would also be extremely anti-climactic, which is exactly why Tarquin is going to make sure that he's on-panel when he does it.:smallwink:

What would be really anticlimactic is if the guillotine couldnt kill him because of his damage resistance.....Viva le Resistance!

[EnragedFilia]

What would be really anticlimactic is if the guillotine couldnt kill him because of his damage resistance.....Viva le Resistance!
It would also be a fairly obvious joke about the rules... and they'd just find another way to go about it anyway.

[Seerow]

Assuming they were equal level it would be app. 1/3 of the XP he needed to gain a level.

Thog I believe is a couple levels higher than Roy though, and had an advantage in not having most of his class features removed from the fight, which I'd figure would give him a +1 or 2 effective CR increase. I could see the encounter being enough to give Roy a full level, or close to it, without stretching belief.

[veleriphon]

OotS has got to be the most consistently good webcomic I've read. I can go and pick out a strip from pretty much any part of the story from the archive and read it and enjoy it (and then subsequently end up reading the next 10-15 strips whether I planned on it or not). I'm definitely impressed by The Giant maintaining his level of quality throughout the strip thus far.

It's addictive.

[Toofey]

I didn't take the comment to mean thog was not dead only that Tarquin is genre savy enough to not say for sure until he has the body.

[MesiDoomstalker]

I didn't take the comment to mean thog was not dead only that Tarquin is genre savy enough to not say for sure until he has the body.

I'm somewhat suprised he didn't start spouting out the trope Elan-style and Roy getting annoyed. Only somewhat suprised.

EDIT: Apologies for the accidental double post.

[Belril Duskwalk]

I didn't take the comment to mean thog was not dead only that Tarquin is genre savy enough to not say for sure until he has the body.

I took it to mean this. And possibly that Thog will be found dead either as a result of having a portion of stadium fall on him, or as a result of several soldiers having stabbed whatever was left of Thog until he was REALLY dead. Judging by Tarquin's statements back here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0788.html) this is all the excuse he needs to go to plan 'slit his throat' seeing as most everyone in the audience will believe Thog died in the collapse anyway.

[Threadnaught]

I think Tarquin is my favorite evil character ever. I bet Roy and Belkar willfind themselves working for him at some point. I can see many ways it could happen:

T hires them to escort his son and his party to Girard' Gate.
:tarquin: My son leads a fine party but they strangely lake melee combatants.

T already knows who Roy wants to free tanks to his spie(s). He is having Ian executed right now. As long as he does it before being confirmed who he should release, he is not breaking the contract. Standard procedure is to destroy the corpses but he will have them resurrected instead if Roy does him a favor.
:tarquin: It's not blackmail, It's an exchange of services.

Roy accepts whatever mission T gives him only to hijack the resources put at his disposal to save the world. (Roy is not all that lawful and so far his plan was to hold as much information as possible from Tarquin). That will bite him in the back later.

But who would do the resurrections?

Malack is a priest of a god of Death, isn't there a rule against Clerics of Death gods using Resurrection?

[hamishspence]

Malack is a priest of a god of Death, isn't there a rule against Clerics of Death gods using Resurrection?

Might depend on the setting.

Here:


Evil characters are neither prohibited nor even discouraged from raising the dead in the OOTS universe—nor in any other D&D world of which I'm aware, unless they specifically serve a god of Death.


it might imply that in some settings, characters that specifically serve a god of Death might be discouraged from raising the dead- though it's not clear if it applies to the OoTS setting specifically.

[factotum]

I would have thought it depends entirely on the attitude of said God, regardless of what his portfolio is.

[jtpete86]

I may have missed a previous post . .

Idid any else see the shadow of the flying kobold is similar to that of an imp?

[Ron Miel]

What shadow? I see no shadow.

[jtpete86]

In the first scene on the ceiling

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0813.html

[windweaver]

In the first scene on the ceiling

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0813.html

I don't see a shadow. The dark thing in the first panel is Blackwing, V's familiar.

[jtpete86]

ohhh - thanks!!

[rewinn]

I don't see a shadow. The dark thing in the first panel is Blackwing, V's familiar.

:roy: When did V get a familiar?

[Morgan Wick]

Who wants to bet either Belkar will start the next strip talking about this run-in he had with a mail carrier this one time, or Rich will have to clarify the reference in the book's commentary?

[Kish]

Who wants to bet either Belkar will start the next strip talking about this run-in he had with a mail carrier this one time, or Rich will have to clarify the reference in the book's commentary?
I'll bet against either.

Rich doesn't generally explain throwaway jokes.