Critique these houserules?

[Tyger]

My group is diving into the realm of George R. R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire, and we are coming up with some houserules to help us in keeping the flavour of the world. These are the ones we've devised, mostly for balance, but some for mechanics that we prefer. I'd love to get your feedback on them.

1) Double AC from shields. To be reviewed upon examination of a member's alternate armor system.

2) Death occurs at -CON value rather than -10.

3) Books allowed: Any WotC or Pathfinder source. All content subject to DM and player approval that it fits the theme.

4) Character stat determination will be 32 buy point buy.

5) Casters with Cantrips or Orisons may cast them at will, per the Pathfinder rules on such.

6) No favored classes.

7) Toughness feat is replaced with Improved Toughness.

8) Flaws are in (maximum one per character, taken at level one only). Flaws must be from the following list: Feeble, Frail, Meager Fortitude, Pathetic, Poor Reflexes, Slow, Unreactive, Vulnerable and Weak Will.

9) Monks and Swordsages are full BAB classes.

10) Classes available are limited to Tier Three and below. For canon 3.5 classes, that list is limited to: Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Crusader, Bard, Swordsage, Binder (without access to the summon monster vestige), Wildshape Varient Ranger, Duskblade, Factotum, Warblade, Psychic Warrior, Rogue, Barbarian, Warlock, Warmage, Scout, Ranger, Hexblade, Adept, Spellthief, Marshal, Fighter (Zhentarium Variant), Fighter, Monk, CA Ninja, Healer, Swashbuckler, Rokugan Ninja, Soulknife, Expert, OA Samurai, Paladin, Knight and CW Samurai (with Imperious Command available).

Outside of canon 3.5 lists, any other class may be included, so long as it meets the Tier three or below criteria.

11) Action points from Unearthed Arcana are in. No use of emulate feat or spell recovery.

12) Aging rules will not be used.

13) Alignment restrictions on any class are null and void, baring classes where alignment is obvious (Blackguard, etc)

14) Race restrictions on any class are null and void, though this may require some tweaking of the class abilities.

15) Racial Hit Dice for most monstrous playable races will be reviewed, on a case by case basis.

16) The Leadership feat is not allowed.

17) Tumbling in medium and heavy armor is possible, but apply the same double ACP as to swimming.

18) Any weapon crafted of Mithril (the weapon must be a legal weapon for Mithril crafting) becomes a valid weapon for the Weapon Finesse feat. Additionally, any one handed weapon crafted of Mithril becomes, effectively, a light weapon for the purposes of Two-Weapon fighting, and all other related TWF feats.

19) LAs from separate sources are calculated separately for the purposes of LA buyoff.

20) White Raven Tactics (Manuever from ToB) does not allow user to target self.

21) The feats Two-Weapon Fighting and Two-Weapon Defense are hereby combined into the Two-Weapon Fighting feat.

22) The player is responsible for having stats for all summoned / controlled creatures - within reason - and will control said creature unless there are extenuating circumstances.

23) Natural 1/20 are no longer to be considered automatic failure / success. Natural 1 is to be treated as a -10 and natural 20 as a +30 to any check, including attack rolls, saving throws, caster checks, skill checks and any other d20 rolls I have forgotten - though not to damage rolls.

24) Immediate Actions will be handled on a case by case basis for determining if the action in question is capable of interrupting another's action. If the specific action / spell / ability doesn't make mention of the ability to interrupt, then it can not be used to interrupt another's action.

25) If there is no/extremely limited magic in the realm, an alternate healing ability (via the Heal skill) will be implemented.

26) There are no class / cross-class skills. Any character may take ranks in any skill at a 1-1 ratio. PrCs with skill requirements may be subject to review as a result of this.

27) Precision Damage (sneak attack, death attack, skirmish damage, etc.) can damage any creature with a corporeal, discernible anatomy. Undead, constructs, etc. are all valid targets for these types of damage. Just because it doesn't have a beating heart doesn't mean you can't hit something more vital.

28) Prestige Classes: If you enter into a Prestige Class, you may not take levels in any new class until all levels of the PrC are completed. You may continue to take levels in any base class(es) you had prior to entering the PrC.

29) Tripping: The following is a list of creatures/circumstances who are immune to tripping:
incorporeal creatures
flying creatures with perfect maneuverability
flying creatures who do not use wings (good maneuverability or better)
creatures with the ooze type
snakes and other limbless creatures who move normally while prone, including centipedes.
creatures with the Amorphous extraordinary ability, such as the Gibbering Mouther.
swarms
creatures that are swimming
creatures that are burrowing

30) All canon WotC and Pathfinder templates and races are allowed, pending both DM and player base approval. If you think your race / template should be allowed (and it isn't a core race), you must demonstrate to the group how it fits the theme of the game.

31) All decisions which require approval by the players shall be decided by majority vote. Abstention from voting shall be taken as a vote in favour of the proposal. The DM shall vote to break ties only.

32) Hit Points to be rolled for each level. Rolls of less than half the maximum possible roll to be treated as half the roll.

33) Where there is a discrepancy between domain spell lists from various sourcebooks, the Spell Compendium version will be used.

34) All Cure and Inflict spells cast outside of an encounter can be treated as though they were maximized at the cost of having their casting time increased to 1 minute.

35) Any spell with a material component of under 5 gp has that requirement waived. Any other Material Component must be accounted for precisely. Pearls required for Identify, obsidian for Animate Dead, diamonds for Raise Dead, etc.

36) Spells allowed may be drawn from any D&D 3.5 source, subject to DM approval.

37) In the event of a discrepancy in a spell's description between the Spell Compendium and another version, the SpC shall be taken as correct, unless the other source has a more recent publish date.

38) Conventional spell slots will be used for all spell casting classes.

39) Game starting at 1000 XP. Thus characters may be created with two class levels, one LA and one class level, or racial HD. All characters must have at least one class level or one racial hit dice to be considered.

40) Masterwork Weapons & Armor: Differing grades of MW weapons and armor will be included, to help offset the lack of magical enchantments.

Mastercraft weapons
+1 to hit - 300 GP (core)
+2 to hit - 1000 GP
+3 to hit - 4000 GP

Mastercraft Armor
-1 ACP - 150 GP (core)
-2 ACP - 500 GP
-3 ACP - 2000 GP

41) Dragonbone: Believed to be made from the actual bones of dragons, this material is black due to its high iron content. It is as strong as steel, but lighter and more flexible.

Any item made of wood can be made of dragonbone instead. It functions identically but weighs 25% less and is immune to fire. The range of a bow made of dragonbone is increased by 50%.

42) Valyrian Steel: The lasting legacy of the Freehold of Valyria is the legendary Valyrian steel. It is darker than normal steel and holds an impossibly fine edge, capable of shearing through armour.

There are thousands of Valyrian steel weapons in the world, but only a few hundred in the Seven Kingdoms. They are highly prized and almost never found in common markets. They are described as priceless for it is nearly impossible to find an owner of a Valyrian blade willing to sell.

Valyrian steel reduces the weight of a weapon by 25%. Bladed weapons gain an +3 to all damage and attack rolls. Armour and shields provide only half their normal Armour Rating against blades made of the rare material. A bludgeoning weapon crafted entirely of Valyrian steel would only gain the +3 to attack rolls. All Valyrian steel weapons are considered to be of masterwork quality, and do not receive further bonuses.

Though it is unheard of, armour could presumably be made of Valyrian steel. Such armour would weigh 25% of normal, have an Armour Check Penalty reduced by 2, a Max Dex Bonus +2; furthermore its armour value would not be halved when opposed by a Valyrian steel weapon, and its armour rating should be improved by +2 to +3 (GM's discretion).

43) Races / Templates which grant Darkvision will have that darkvision replaced with Low Light vision and a +4 modifier to the Spot skill.

44) Passive Spot and Listen skill checks will be used - character's rank + modifiers + 10 - in all instances where such checks would be appropriate and the player has not indicated active spotting / listening.

45) We will be using the Vitality / Wound alternate rules from the Unearthed Arcana.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

24) I'd say it looks a bit unfair to most immediate-action abilities. Just having an activation time of an immediate action in and of itself should be enough to imply that it can interrupt another action. Just opening one book I see two examples of immediate-action abilities which by this rule would not be able to interrupt another's actions, but were clearly intended to do just that:

Complete Champion page 10, an affiliation ranking of 30+ with the Church of Yondalla: Warden of the Horn: Once per day as an immediate action, grant a
dodge bonus to AC equal to 1/2 your character level to yourself or an adjacent ally. (You can use this ability after you know the result of the roll.)

This is clearly intended to interrupt an attack with an AC bonus which could end up preventing that attack from succeeding. However, it does not explicitly say that it can interrupt an attack, so it would not be usable as such.


Complete Champion page 58, Earth Devotion feat; Once per day as an immediate action, you can ignore the effects of diffi cult terrain or make terrain near you more diffi cult to move through.... If you use this ability to affect nearby terrain, you can change one 5-foot square of earth or stone from normal to diffi cult terrain for every three character levels you possess (minimum 1 square; maximum 6 squares at 18th level). The first square you change must be within 30 feet of you, and all other squares must be linked to that one in an unbroken line.

It does not specifically say that it can interrupt another creature's actions, but that is the greatest advantage of this ability both mechanically and cinematically. Mechanically it can create difficult terrain in the path of a charging creature, forcing it to make one or more fairly severe Balance checks (DC 15, with a -5 penalty applied) or trip and fall, thus ruining the charge. Cinematically if a row of enemy soldiers are charging the character and his allies he could deliver a powerful stomp of his foot to cause the ground in front of them to break apart and become uneven, thus ruining their initial charge and giving his team the upper hand.


Before the immediate action rules were fully established, it was specified that abilities could interrupt another action (Instantaneous Rage, for example). Once they introduced immediate actions and clearly stated how they work in every book that contains them, they no longer needed to make that specific, it's built into how immediate actions work.

[Godskook]

1) Double AC from shields. To be reviewed upon examination of a member's alternate armor system.

Will improve the sword&board option a tad, which means ToB just got stronger.


2) Death occurs at -CON value rather than -10.

Standard houserule, and everyone loves it.


3) Books allowed: Any WotC or Pathfinder source. All content subject to DM and player approval that it fits the theme.

Players shouldn't have content approval once the game is 'going'. Conflict of interests and all that.

Also, PF and 3.5 don't entirely mix as well as people like to claim. Be wary of too much carte blanche.


4) Character stat determination will be 32 buy point buy.

Not really a houserule, but that's a fairly standard point-buy value.


5) Casters with Cantrips or Orisons may cast them at will, per the Pathfinder rules on such.

Provided there's a way to deal with the 1-2 cantrips/orisons that get cracky at-will, I approve.


6) No favored classes.

Again, forum standard.


7) Toughness feat is replaced with Improved Toughness.

Normal houserule.


8) Flaws are in (maximum one per character, taken at level one only). Flaws must be from the following list: Feeble, Frail, Meager Fortitude, Pathetic, Poor Reflexes, Slow, Unreactive, Vulnerable and Weak Will.

W/e, honestly.


9) Monks and Swordsages are full BAB classes.

While monk needs this, Swordsage does not. Probably won't be too unbalancing, but the class is strong enough as it is that buffing it is something I'd be hesitant to do.


10) Classes available are limited to Tier Three and below. For canon 3.5 classes, that list is limited to: Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Crusader, Bard, Swordsage, Binder (without access to the summon monster vestige), Wildshape Varient Ranger, Duskblade, Factotum, Warblade, Psychic Warrior, Rogue, Barbarian, Warlock, Warmage, Scout, Ranger, Hexblade, Adept, Spellthief, Marshal, Fighter (Zhentarium Variant), Fighter, Monk, CA Ninja, Healer, Swashbuckler, Rokugan Ninja, Soulknife, Expert, OA Samurai, Paladin, Knight and CW Samurai (with Imperious Command available).

Outside of canon 3.5 lists, any other class may be included, so long as it meets the Tier three or below criteria.

Reasonable.


11) Action points from Unearthed Arcana are in. No use of emulate feat or spell recovery.

Eh


12) Aging rules will not be used.

Good choice


13) Alignment restrictions on any class are null and void, baring classes where alignment is obvious (Blackguard, etc)

Your definition is incredibly unclear here.


14) Race restrictions on any class are null and void, though this may require some tweaking of the class abilities.

Beholder Mage here I come! More seriously, I'm not sure why you're doing this. I can't think of any prestige classes worth doing this for.


15) Racial Hit Dice for most monstrous playable races will be reviewed, on a case by case basis.

Not sure cause you're not actually telling me anything here.


16) The Leadership feat is not allowed.

Standard, moving on here.


17) Tumbling in medium and heavy armor is possible, but apply the same double ACP as to swimming.

+1


18) Any weapon crafted of Mithril (the weapon must be a legal weapon for Mithril crafting) becomes a valid weapon for the Weapon Finesse feat. Additionally, any one handed weapon crafted of Mithril becomes, effectively, a light weapon for the purposes of Two-Weapon fighting, and all other related TWF feats.

Interesting rule, I'll have to mull that over for a while.


19) LAs from separate sources are calculated separately for the purposes of LA buyoff.

+1


20) White Raven Tactics (Manuever from ToB) does not allow user to target self.

This is RAI, so not really a true houserule.


21) The feats Two-Weapon Fighting and Two-Weapon Defense are hereby combined into the Two-Weapon Fighting feat.

How are the improved versions handled?


22) The player is responsible for having stats for all summoned / controlled creatures - within reason - and will control said creature unless there are extenuating circumstances.

Not really what I'd call a houserule, but ok.


23) Natural 1/20 are no longer to be considered automatic failure / success. Natural 1 is to be treated as a -10 and natural 20 as a +30 to any check, including attack rolls, saving throws, caster checks, skill checks and any other d20 rolls I have forgotten - though not to damage rolls.

You're removing the great equalizers. I disapprove.


24) Immediate Actions will be handled on a case by case basis for determining if the action in question is capable of interrupting another's action. If the specific action / spell / ability doesn't make mention of the ability to interrupt, then it can not be used to interrupt another's action.

Again, more information is required here.


25) If there is no/extremely limited magic in the realm, an alternate healing ability (via the Heal skill) will be implemented.

Again, more information is required here.


26) There are no class / cross-class skills. Any character may take ranks in any skill at a 1-1 ratio. PrCs with skill requirements may be subject to review as a result of this.

I'm a fan of cross-class skills, but I'm a minority.


27) Precision Damage (sneak attack, death attack, skirmish damage, etc.) can damage any creature with a corporeal, discernible anatomy. Undead, constructs, etc. are all valid targets for these types of damage. Just because it doesn't have a beating heart doesn't mean you can't hit something more vital.

With the removal of tier 2 and tier 1, this isn't as important as before, honestly.


28) Prestige Classes: If you enter into a Prestige Class, you may not take levels in any new class until all levels of the PrC are completed. You may continue to take levels in any base class(es) you had prior to entering the PrC.

Boo! Many classes just aren't worth the paper they're printed on, past level 2, but others are good to the last drop. This is exactly like implementing a favored class racial feature.....oh wait you deleted that in rule #6. Mixed message much?


29) Tripping: The following is a list of creatures/circumstances who are immune to tripping:
incorporeal creatures
flying creatures with perfect maneuverability
flying creatures who do not use wings (good maneuverability or better)
creatures with the ooze type
snakes and other limbless creatures who move normally while prone, including centipedes.
creatures with the Amorphous extraordinary ability, such as the Gibbering Mouther.
swarms
creatures that are swimming
creatures that are burrowing

Creatures that are swimming can be tripped. Just takes more effort.


30) All canon WotC and Pathfinder templates and races are allowed, pending both DM and player base approval. If you think your race / template should be allowed (and it isn't a core race), you must demonstrate to the group how it fits the theme of the game.

1.I've covered that I don't think players should be making DM decisions earlier.

2.You're not really giving us information to talk about.


31) All decisions which require approval by the players shall be decided by majority vote. Abstention from voting shall be taken as a vote in favour of the proposal. The DM shall vote to break ties only.

Your Abstention rules cause headaches, and are bad politically, cause if you got 1 person who wants something, 3 people who don't, and 3 people who just don't care, that 1 person 'wins' over the 3 people who objected, which is bullox.


32) Hit Points to be rolled for each level. Rolls of less than half the maximum possible roll to be treated as half the roll.

+1


33) Where there is a discrepancy between domain spell lists from various sourcebooks, the Spell Compendium version will be used.

Eh. Technically, primary source rules solve this already, but w/e.


34) All Cure and Inflict spells cast outside of an encounter can be treated as though they were maximized at the cost of having their casting time increased to 1 minute.

Interesting.


35) Any spell with a material component of under 5 gp has that requirement waived. Any other Material Component must be accounted for precisely. Pearls required for Identify, obsidian for Animate Dead, diamonds for Raise Dead, etc.

Fairly normal.


36) Spells allowed may be drawn from any D&D 3.5 source, subject to DM approval.

Give that there's no true full-casters, there's not really anything to worry about here.


37) In the event of a discrepancy in a spell's description between the Spell Compendium and another version, the SpC shall be taken as correct, unless the other source has a more recent publish date.

Again, you're working against primary source rules, but w/e. Not going to matter much, and is probably easier to work with this way.


38) Conventional spell slots will be used for all spell casting classes.

Do any of them use a different system?


39) Game starting at 1000 XP. Thus characters may be created with two class levels, one LA and one class level, or racial HD. All characters must have at least one class level or one racial hit dice to be considered.

Aka "All characters must have at least a pulse". lol


40) Masterwork Weapons & Armor: Differing grades of MW weapons and armor will be included, to help offset the lack of magical enchantments.

Interesting.


41) Dragonbone: Believed to be made from the actual bones of dragons, this material is black due to its high iron content. It is as strong as steel, but lighter and more flexible.

Any item made of wood can be made of dragonbone instead. It functions identically but weighs 25% less and is immune to fire. The range of a bow made of dragonbone is increased by 50%.

Handy stuff you got there.


42) Valyrian Steel: The lasting legacy of the Freehold of Valyria is the legendary Valyrian steel. It is darker than normal steel and holds an impossibly fine edge, capable of shearing through armour.

There are thousands of Valyrian steel weapons in the world, but only a few hundred in the Seven Kingdoms. They are highly prized and almost never found in common markets. They are described as priceless for it is nearly impossible to find an owner of a Valyrian blade willing to sell.

Valyrian steel reduces the weight of a weapon by 25%. Bladed weapons gain an +3 to all damage and attack rolls. Armour and shields provide only half their normal Armour Rating against blades made of the rare material. A bludgeoning weapon crafted entirely of Valyrian steel would only gain the +3 to attack rolls. All Valyrian steel weapons are considered to be of masterwork quality, and do not receive further bonuses.

Though it is unheard of, armour could presumably be made of Valyrian steel. Such armour would weigh 25% of normal, have an Armour Check Penalty reduced by 2, a Max Dex Bonus +2; furthermore its armour value would not be halved when opposed by a Valyrian steel weapon, and its armour rating should be improved by +2 to +3 (GM's discretion).

Again, interesting.


43) Races / Templates which grant Darkvision will have that darkvision replaced with Low Light vision and a +4 modifier to the Spot skill.

Why?


44) Passive Spot and Listen skill checks will be used - character's rank + modifiers + 10 - in all instances where such checks would be appropriate and the player has not indicated active spotting / listening.

Works for me.


45) We will be using the Vitality / Wound alternate rules from the Unearthed Arcana.

Going gritty, eh? Not fond of that myself, but to each their own.

[Tyger]

Players shouldn't have content approval once the game is 'going'. Conflict of interests and all that.

Our play group is incredibly mature and no one in the group would vote against something out of spite, only to preserve the feel of the world. We're all huge Martin fans, and want to keep it as authentic as we can.



Beholder Mage here I come! More seriously, I'm not sure why you're doing this. I can't think of any prestige classes worth doing this for.

Well, as the group has agreed to low power, that won't be an issue. But it does open up things like Eternal Blade for non-elves, the halfling dagger specialist PrC whose name I can't recall at the moment, things like that.


How are the improved versions handled?

Darned good question, and one I hadn't thought of. Thanks!


You're removing the great equalizers. I disapprove.

Yeah this is one we are going to test out. It is essentially to remove the ludicrousness of the greatest warrior in the world always missing to hit the broad side of a barn one in twenty swings, while the baby in swaddling can strike the ancient dragon at the same percentage. Not sure if it is going to work out or not, but we're going to see what happens.


Boo! Many classes just aren't worth the paper they're printed on, past level 2, but others are good to the last drop. This is exactly like implementing a favored class racial feature.....oh wait you deleted that in rule #6. Mixed message much?

Is is to prevent the exact situation you note, the ubiquitous class dip for the sweet classes. And has no bearing what so ever on racial class issues, so I have no idea how to respond to that.


1.I've covered that I don't think players should be making DM decisions earlier.

as noted above, it is a mature and cooperative group. We've had the "joy" of playing under a 'my way or the highway' DM before, and want to make it more of a group effort.


Your Abstention rules cause headaches, and are bad politically, cause if you got 1 person who wants something, 3 people who don't, and 3 people who just don't care, that 1 person 'wins' over the 3 people who objected, which is bullox.

another great point, and I'll have to review that one with more thought. Thanks again.


Why?

Because there are no races in the game, we're all using subtypes of humans that happen to be the exact stats of the regula D&D races. I.e we have a character that is using the Whisper Gnome race, but is portayed only as a very short human (specifically a Crannogman if you've read the books), and Darkvision just breaks the verisimilitude we're going for.


24) I'd say it looks a bit unfair to most immediate-action abilities. Just having an activation time of an immediate action in and of itself should be enough to imply that it can interrupt another action. Just opening one book I see two examples of immediate-action abilities which by this rule would not be able to interrupt another's actions, but were clearly intended to do just that...

Damned good points, and we'll have tomreview this one... I can't even recall what the impetus for this was.:smallsmile:

Thanks to you both for the comments. Highlighted some of the whoopsies moments.

[Godskook]

Yeah this is one we are going to test out. It is essentially to remove the ludicrousness of the greatest warrior in the world always missing to hit the broad side of a barn one in twenty swings, while the baby in swaddling can strike the ancient dragon at the same percentage. Not sure if it is going to work out or not, but we're going to see what happens.

1.You're overplaying how often such things happen.

2.Unless you're using tables, crits/fumbles even when they happen don't have nearly as much impact on combat as you're exaggerating it to be. In the case of the baby, we're talking about a baby wielding a d6 or less weapon with a negative str mod. Sure, he'll hit, but he'll only deal 1-3 points of damage to a creature with triple digit health. And that's assuming the baby can even reach it.


Is is to prevent the exact situation you note, the ubiquitous class dip for the sweet classes. And has no bearing what so ever on racial class issues, so I have no idea how to respond to that.

The two situations are about the same exact situation: Dipping into classes to grab good class features without having to suffer through bad levels. You basically said: Instead of having a favored class mechanic for base classes, we're implementing a different but similar mechanic for prestige classes.

[HunterOfJello]

1) Double AC from shields. To be reviewed upon examination of a member's alternate armor system.

Does this mean Tower Shields give +20 shield AC? That's pretty godly and OP.

5) Casters with Cantrips or Orisons may cast them at will, per the Pathfinder rules on such.

Just make sure that a caster doesn't start using this in conjunction with Versatile Spellcaster in order to cast unlimited 1st level spells.

9) Monks and Swordsages are full BAB classes.

Swordsages can use it well, but don't really need it. Monks are never good to encourage.

14) Race restrictions on any class are null and void, though this may require some tweaking of the class abilities.

This one is a bit odd. Are you trying to have an All Human campaign or what? There are some PrCs that only make much sense for a particular race and work as a good balancing factor that way. Ex: Recaster, Shadowcraft Mage


17) Tumbling in medium and heavy armor is possible, but apply the same double ACP as to swimming.

You're just strongly encouraging people to use Light Armor and Shields now. This could be changed to just Heavy Armor and heavy loads.

18) Any weapon crafted of Mithril (the weapon must be a legal weapon for Mithril crafting) becomes a valid weapon for the Weapon Finesse feat. Additionally, any one handed weapon crafted of Mithril becomes, effectively, a light weapon for the purposes of Two-Weapon fighting, and all other related TWF feats.

There's already a material that does this, but is a bit more expensive. They're called Feycraft weapons and are in the DMG2.


23) Natural 1/20 are no longer to be considered automatic failure / success. Natural 1 is to be treated as a -10 and natural 20 as a +30 to any check, including attack rolls, saving throws, caster checks, skill checks and any other d20 rolls I have forgotten - though not to damage rolls.

I considered this when starting a campaign but stopped when the PCs got to +32 to attack and would be hitting pretty much everything while using special maneuvers if they had a -10 from a roll of 1. Missing things occasionally makes things more enjoyable imo. Tell me how it works out.

24) Immediate Actions will be handled on a case by case basis for determining if the action in question is capable of interrupting another's action. If the specific action / spell / ability doesn't make mention of the ability to interrupt, then it can not be used to interrupt another's action.

I just came across problem this recently. Good rule, although you may want to make it very clear that the starting position is a definite NO, and that there may only be occasional exceptions.

26) There are no class / cross-class skills. Any character may take ranks in any skill at a 1-1 ratio. PrCs with skill requirements may be subject to review as a result of this.

Making all skills cost 1 skill point per rank is good, but I prefer having the skill maximums in place.

27) Precision Damage (sneak attack, death attack, skirmish damage, etc.) can damage any creature with a corporeal, discernible anatomy. Undead, constructs, etc. are all valid targets for these types of damage. Just because it doesn't have a beating heart doesn't mean you can't hit something more vital.

Good.

28) Prestige Classes: If you enter into a Prestige Class, you may not take levels in any new class until all levels of the PrC are completed. You may continue to take levels in any base class(es) you had prior to entering the PrC.

I don't like this rule. I can see how you may dislike dipping and therefore create this rule, but it's a very harsh one on occasion. Some PrCs are meant to be taken for only 9 out of 10 levels while offering a major cost benefit difference for the final level. Spellcasting PrCs often do this. They'll offer a great ability at the 10th level, but have it come at the cost of no spell progression.

You're primarily encouraging people to ignore a crap load of PrCs just because they get sour after going halfway through it and encouraging them to focus on 5 level PrCs only. You're also discouraging most 10 level PrCs because few of them are great at the end few levels and worth taking completely.

This rule seems like it will only cause the players headaches and make them focus too heavily on searching through every possible book for the 1 prestige class they like that doesn't completely suck for all of its levels.

29) Tripping: The following is a list of creatures/circumstances who are immune to tripping:
incorporeal creatures
flying creatures with perfect maneuverability
flying creatures who do not use wings (good maneuverability or better)
creatures with the ooze type
snakes and other limbless creatures who move normally while prone, including centipedes.
creatures with the Amorphous extraordinary ability, such as the Gibbering Mouther.
swarms
creatures that are swimming
creatures that are burrowing

Is a list of this really needed? I'm beginning to wonder if your players like to ignore common sense.

34) All Cure and Inflict spells cast outside of an encounter can be treated as though they were maximized at the cost of having their casting time increased to 1 minute.

Cool rule. I like this a lot. Much better than a huge bag full of Wands of Lesser Vigor.

38) Conventional spell slots will be used for all spell casting classes.

What's this mean?

43) Races / Templates which grant Darkvision will have that darkvision replaced with Low Light vision and a +4 modifier to the Spot skill.


Why?

[Suddo]

I assume your weapon finesse rule is only for 1 handed, you say your group is mature so I assume no one is going to abuse things like this. Also I agree with the natural 1/20 rule for skill check but in combat I'd rather have them confirm a one to deal minimum damage rather than -10 and natural 20s should be ruled as is. The argument I've always seen to not have have natural 1s on skill checks is that people that juggle chainsaws don't drop them every 1/20 times.

[Spiryt]

26) There are no class / cross-class skills. Any character may take ranks in any skill at a 1-1 ratio. PrCs with skill requirements may be subject to review as a result of this.

That nerfs Rogues, Rangers, and some other classes, as well as screws general skill system quite a bit I think.

Not really sure what's the point here.


34) All Cure and Inflict spells cast outside of an encounter can be treated as though they were maximized at the cost of having their casting time increased to 1 minute.

Very nice.



You're just strongly encouraging people to use Light Armor and Shields now. This could be changed to just Heavy Armor and heavy loads.

Uh.... Tumbling is not allowed to anyone slowed down by armor, so he's actually buffing heavy and med armors.


Does this mean Tower Shields give +20 shield AC? That's pretty godly and OP.

Uh, no, it gives + 8?

[Anxe]

12) Why? Some of the characters are clearly affected by the aging rules in the story. Why get rid of them?

26) I think this one is a bad idea. Perhaps instead you could limit the amount of ranks that can be put into a cross-class skill? Just character level instead of Character level +3 or something like that? Or you could handle skills on a case-by-case basis again. I do that.

27) The wights are clearly immune to precision damage. Perhaps even immune to damage overall. You might want to not use this one.

35) I would actually got the other way on this one for the world. Every material component must be accounted for, even the silver required for protection from evil or the leather for mage armor.

Other suggestions I have are to stat out dragonglass in some way. I'm also unsure why you are allowing races besides Humans at all. Nevermind, I see that you addressed that.

[Tyger]

Lots to reply to, so I will just put up the really salient ones.

I get how people don't like having the ability to dip PrCs taken away, and yes, some PrCs do have crap upper levels - so this forces a player to make a long hard decision, remember, this is a low op, low power game.

And yes, the mithril issue is already covered under Feycraft, but that costs a damage loss, and I like the idea of making mithril weapons actually have some real purpose. As it stands, there is zero reason to ever have a mithril weapon. And yes, you can Finesse a mithril Greataxe under these rules. You could already have a Finessable Two Handed Sword a la the Elven Courtblade, so its not really that much of an upset, though the cost would be high.

HunterofJello, good point on the Versatile Spellcaster. Of course, we have a long standing houserule which I didn't post "Attempts to use cheese will result in two things, a) mockery by your peers, and b) having a DMG chucked at your head by the DM, and the painful death of you or your character."

Yes, as noted above, we are having essentially an all human campaign, but race restrictions on classes have always irked me to no end, so that's the majority of that reason. When it is a real matter, the cheese filled characters always find a way around the racial limitations on classes anyway.

As for the Tumble rules, yes, it helps out Medium and Heavy armor wearers - ordinarily they can't tumble at all. Which makes no sense. A penalty seems far more appropriate.

And I don't know what Tower Shield grants a current RAW +10 to AC, but my Towers add double thier normal, making them +8 to AC. Whichis substantial, but given the penalties associated with them, not something I fear.

The removal of cross class skills is to allow any character, of any class,to train in any skill, plain and simple. If I wantto play a fighter (lord help me!) who knows a lot about religion, I should be able to. Or, heaven forbid, a fighter who can actually stand watch because I have the skills Listen and Spot? Or if I want to be a professional entertainer, with ranks in Perform, Diplomacy, Sleight of Hand, Tumble and Jump, while also being a wizard, why can't I? I can come up with a dozen backstories to explain why I have these skills, none of which stretch credulity at all. Yes, it does steal someofthe skill monkeys' thunder, but they are still going to be better at more things than anyone else, owing to their huge skill ranks.

Again thanks, these are some great critiques, please do keep them coming. Even if I disagree with the suggestions, they are forcing me to think about the rationale for the choices our group has made.

[Tiki Snakes]

I'm just going to chime in on the Sheild rules;

It could work, but might not make a vast difference. It might be worth looking at the Armour-as-Damage-Reduction rules. Think they were in Unearthed Arcana too? I seem to remember that under those rules sheilds had a lot more impact, but I forget the details.

Oh, and depending on what level range you're interested in, personally I would look into the whole E6 thing if I were running such a game. I have no idea if it would help with what your after though, or even be relevant.

[Yahzi]

My group is diving into the realm of George R. R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire,
I think you should have the Leadership feat simply grant a +5 Morale bonus. SoIaF is all about the army action.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

I might take a look at PF's skill system. They do as you do - all skills are 1 to 1 - but class skills get an extra +3 bonus if you have a rank in said skill and a level in said class. Sort of a compromise between your totally-modular system and 3.5's niche-protection system.

[ericgrau]

On the whole it's a surprisingly mild set of house rules for a long list. I've known and heard of other DMs that are sometimes a pain to play with b/c of excessive rules tweaks.

1) An extra +2 won't break the system, so it works well as an incentive. But if you mean +7 x 2 = 14 anyone mildly good at AC optimization will be unhittable. Note that animated shields + THF will still be the high level option of choice. Likewise watch for stacking issues with whatever alternate armor system you're planning. FWIW a +2 is a boost and a +4 is a huge boost. Again, a good optimizer will be nearly unhittable with a +4, though it's not as bad as +7.

2-8,11, 12-16, 18, 20-23, 27-39, 41, 43-45) Ok. Some minor power creep, some minor annoyances, but whatever.

9) Not touching this.

10) I'd say you're ruining my fun and leaving holes in party needs except there are still some good options on there to patch the holes. Do note that it takes extra effort and party coordination to even have, say, a player with a wand of cure lights as a source of party healing. Likewise other potential holes besides healing require highly competent players and perhaps some coordination between them. Or else limited monster existence. For example invisible/flying/etc. monsters might be trouble.

17, 26) I dunno tumbling is practically a class feature for the nimble types. Removing all the skill exclusivity of skill monkeys makes those classes worth a lot less. EDIT: I read the above response, but skill monkeys already have it pretty bad even without their major advantage being passed around to everyone. Unless you find yourself calling for forgery checks all the time, having more different skills won't be hugely helpful to them. They need something more. Maybe a bonus to all skills, but without raising the DCs (or you'll be right back where you started). That means they'll auto pass a lot of amazing checks, but seriously how much can you do with skills without resorting to cheese? And I think Bob the fighter can be religious without a single rank in knowledge(religion). Skills are supposed to be for heroic abilities not common tasks; make them common and you'll tend to forget that even more, raise DCs higher than they should be, and in general make them not worth bothering with except as fluff... leaving skillmonkeys as poor substitutes for fighters. Even with the sneak attack boost there's no way I'd play a rogue in your setting instead of some full BAB class.

19) I've never been a fan of LA buyoff in general. LA is generally more painful at low levels and less at high levels. If anything it should start low and go up, and any reductions due to high group power level should be applied at all levels not just later on.

24) Sounds like an ambiguous pain. I thought the sole purpose of immediates was to interrupt. Better to ban any problematic spells you might be thinking of, or else they might become horrible traps as players prepare a spell that doesn't actually do much.

25, 40) The system is balanced around having magic items. Removing them is a BAD idea, particularly for non-casters. The loss of bonuses is ridiculously huge once you add it all up, not just from weapon attack bonus but for bonuses to practically everything else too. The super-masterwork weapons might make the game viable until level 7 instead of until level 5, but after that everything will fall apart. This problem will be less noticeable at level 8 but still there, and total anarchy at level 15+.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I guess I'll go through the whole list:


1) Double AC from shields. To be reviewed upon examination of a member's alternate armor system.
I like this, provided it doesn't apply to animated shields, and it does apply to the two-weapon defense line of feats.


2) Death occurs at -CON value rather than -10.
Pretty standard, for good reason.


3) Books allowed: Any WotC or Pathfinder source. All content subject to DM and player approval that it fits the theme.
Pretty standard, for good reason.


4) Character stat determination will be 32 buy point buy.
Pretty standard, for good reason.


5) Casters with Cantrips or Orisons may cast them at will, per the Pathfinder rules on such.
Looks good, but how will you handle Versatile Spellcaster spending 0-level spell slots two at a time to cast 1st level spells?


6) No favored classes.
Pretty standard, for good reason.


7) Toughness feat is replaced with Improved Toughness.
Good idea, but I'd recommend making it still grant +3 HP at levels 1-2.


8) Flaws are in (maximum one per character, taken at level one only). Flaws must be from the following list: Feeble, Frail, Meager Fortitude, Pathetic, Poor Reflexes, Slow, Unreactive, Vulnerable and Weak Will.
There are actually some really cool race/class-specific flaws in various Dragon magazines, but cutting out the most commonly chosen ones because their drawback is negligible is a good idea. I disallow flaws altogether and just give everyone (including NPCs and monsters) an extra feat at levels 1, 11, 21, 31, etc.


9) Monks and Swordsages are full BAB classes.
Maybe they can hit something now!


10) Classes available are limited to Tier Three and below. For canon 3.5 classes, that list is limited to: Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Crusader, Bard, Swordsage, Binder (without access to the summon monster vestige), Wildshape Varient Ranger, Duskblade, Factotum, Warblade, Psychic Warrior, Rogue, Barbarian, Warlock, Warmage, Scout, Ranger, Hexblade, Adept, Spellthief, Marshal, Fighter (Zhentarium Variant), Fighter, Monk, CA Ninja, Healer, Swashbuckler, Rokugan Ninja, Soulknife, Expert, OA Samurai, Paladin, Knight and CW Samurai (with Imperious Command available).

Outside of canon 3.5 lists, any other class may be included, so long as it meets the Tier three or below criteria.
I've noticed that Wilder isn't on the tier list at all; Psion is Tier 2, so would that put Wilder at Tier 3?


11) Action points from Unearthed Arcana are in. No use of emulate feat or spell recovery.
I haven't even read that, no comment.


12) Aging rules will not be used.
Maybe put a -1 physical, +1 mental adjustment halfway between Old and Venerable, but otherwise it's typically something higher-tier characters abuse and lower-tier characters dread, so not a bad idea.


13) Alignment restrictions on any class are null and void, baring classes where alignment is obvious (Blackguard, etc)
I couldn't agree more.


14) Race restrictions on any class are null and void, though this may require some tweaking of the class abilities.
Also a great decision.


15) Racial Hit Dice for most monstrous playable races will be reviewed, on a case by case basis.
Racial HD are typically detrimental to the playability of a given race, so this is a good idea.


16) The Leadership feat is not allowed.
Pretty standard, for good reason.


17) Tumbling in medium and heavy armor is possible, but apply the same double ACP as to swimming.
I'd add on that if you can normally tumble in medium or heavy armor anyway (Dwarves), then you can ignore that penalty.


18) Any weapon crafted of Mithril (the weapon must be a legal weapon for Mithril crafting) becomes a valid weapon for the Weapon Finesse feat. Additionally, any one handed weapon crafted of Mithril becomes, effectively, a light weapon for the purposes of Two-Weapon fighting, and all other related TWF feats.
That actually looks like a great idea, and it makes mithral weapons actually worth getting.


19) LAs from separate sources are calculated separately for the purposes of LA buyoff.
Not a bad idea. No more inherited +1 bought off at 3rd, acquired +1 gained, acquired +1 bought off at 6th, acquired +1 gained, etc. shenanigans.


20) White Raven Tactics (Manuever from ToB) does not allow user to target self.
Pretty standard, for good reason, but many won't even acknowledge that this requires a houserule to accomplish.


21) The feats Two-Weapon Fighting and Two-Weapon Defense are hereby combined into the Two-Weapon Fighting feat.
I'd take this one step further and combine Improved/Greater Two-Weapon Defense (CW) into their TWF counterparts.


22) The player is responsible for having stats for all summoned / controlled creatures - within reason - and will control said creature unless there are extenuating circumstances.
Pretty standard, for good reason.


23) Natural 1/20 are no longer to be considered automatic failure / success. Natural 1 is to be treated as a -10 and natural 20 as a +30 to any check, including attack rolls, saving throws, caster checks, skill checks and any other d20 rolls I have forgotten - though not to damage rolls.
Pretty standard, for good reason.


24) Immediate Actions will be handled on a case by case basis for determining if the action in question is capable of interrupting another's action. If the specific action / spell / ability doesn't make mention of the ability to interrupt, then it can not be used to interrupt another's action.
I've already addressed this earlier.


25) If there is no/extremely limited magic in the realm, an alternate healing ability (via the Heal skill) will be implemented.
A good idea for a low-magic setting.


26) There are no class / cross-class skills. Any character may take ranks in any skill at a 1-1 ratio. PrCs with skill requirements may be subject to review as a result of this.
I do this same thing, except for UMD and Iaijutsu Focus. I also increase all base 2 skill point/level classes and racial HD to base 4 skill points/level instead.


27) Precision Damage (sneak attack, death attack, skirmish damage, etc.) can damage any creature with a corporeal, discernible anatomy. Undead, constructs, etc. are all valid targets for these types of damage. Just because it doesn't have a beating heart doesn't mean you can't hit something more vital.
Precision damage builds need something like this in the higher levels to avoid becoming useless, so this is a good idea.


28) Prestige Classes: If you enter into a Prestige Class, you may not take levels in any new class until all levels of the PrC are completed. You may continue to take levels in any base class(es) you had prior to entering the PrC.
I'd add an option for a second prestige class to be taken before the first is finished, but then only those two classes can be taken until both are at max. What if a character wants to take one prestige class with stiff prerequisites as early as possible, but also wants another prestige class with easier requirements? For example (though it wouldn't be allowed in this game) a Cleric 5/ Morninglord 1/ Radiant Servant 5/ Morninglord 9 is a standard build and technically doesn't dip either class, it takes all of one and as much as it can of the other. Another example would be a Wizard 3/ Master Specialist 6/ Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7/ Master Specialist 4, which actually gets max level in both prestige classes. There are plenty of other examples of characters who would use this without the intent of dipping levels.


29) Tripping: The following is a list of creatures/circumstances who are immune to tripping:
incorporeal creatures
flying creatures with perfect maneuverability
flying creatures who do not use wings (good maneuverability or better)
creatures with the ooze type
snakes and other limbless creatures who move normally while prone, including centipedes.
creatures with the Amorphous extraordinary ability, such as the Gibbering Mouther.
swarms
creatures that are swimming
creatures that are burrowing
Pretty standard, for good reason.


30) All canon WotC and Pathfinder templates and races are allowed, pending both DM and player base approval. If you think your race / template should be allowed (and it isn't a core race), you must demonstrate to the group how it fits the theme of the game.
A good idea for a setting where not everything will fit in.


31) All decisions which require approval by the players shall be decided by majority vote. Abstention from voting shall be taken as a vote in favour of the proposal. The DM shall vote to break ties only.
Looks like a good idea for keeping the party together.


32) Hit Points to be rolled for each level. Rolls of less than half the maximum possible roll to be treated as half the roll.
Looks like a fair system.


33) Where there is a discrepancy between domain spell lists from various sourcebooks, the Spell Compendium version will be used.
It's good to have an easy system for which version will be used in case it comes up during play.


34) All Cure and Inflict spells cast outside of an encounter can be treated as though they were maximized at the cost of having their casting time increased to 1 minute.


35) Any spell with a material component of under 5 gp has that requirement waived. Any other Material Component must be accounted for precisely. Pearls required for Identify, obsidian for Animate Dead, diamonds for Raise Dead, etc.
Looks like a good idea.


36) Spells allowed may be drawn from any D&D 3.5 source, subject to DM approval.
Should be easy, considering Tier 1-2 is banned.


37) In the event of a discrepancy in a spell's description between the Spell Compendium and another version, the SpC shall be taken as correct, unless the other source has a more recent publish date.
Good idea, as above.


38) Conventional spell slots will be used for all spell casting classes.
It's good to have a uniform system.


39) Game starting at 1000 XP. Thus characters may be created with two class levels, one LA and one class level, or racial HD. All characters must have at least one class level or one racial hit dice to be considered.
I never start games at level 1.


40) Masterwork Weapons & Armor: Differing grades of MW weapons and armor will be included, to help offset the lack of magical enchantments.

Mastercraft weapons
+1 to hit - 300 GP (core)
+2 to hit - 1000 GP
+3 to hit - 4000 GP

Mastercraft Armor
-1 ACP - 150 GP (core)
-2 ACP - 500 GP
-3 ACP - 2000 GP
Melee, nice things, etc.


41) Dragonbone: Believed to be made from the actual bones of dragons, this material is black due to its high iron content. It is as strong as steel, but lighter and more flexible.

Any item made of wood can be made of dragonbone instead. It functions identically but weighs 25% less and is immune to fire. The range of a bow made of dragonbone is increased by 50%.
Take a look at the Dragoncraft items in Draconomicon, Dragonbone weapons there deal +1 energy damage of the appropriate type. It could add some appeal to using those, at least in the lower levels.


42) Valyrian Steel: The lasting legacy of the Freehold of Valyria is the legendary Valyrian steel. It is darker than normal steel and holds an impossibly fine edge, capable of shearing through armour.

There are thousands of Valyrian steel weapons in the world, but only a few hundred in the Seven Kingdoms. They are highly prized and almost never found in common markets. They are described as priceless for it is nearly impossible to find an owner of a Valyrian blade willing to sell.

Valyrian steel reduces the weight of a weapon by 25%. Bladed weapons gain an +3 to all damage and attack rolls. Armour and shields provide only half their normal Armour Rating against blades made of the rare material. A bludgeoning weapon crafted entirely of Valyrian steel would only gain the +3 to attack rolls. All Valyrian steel weapons are considered to be of masterwork quality, and do not receive further bonuses.

Though it is unheard of, armour could presumably be made of Valyrian steel. Such armour would weigh 25% of normal, have an Armour Check Penalty reduced by 2, a Max Dex Bonus +2; furthermore its armour value would not be halved when opposed by a Valyrian steel weapon, and its armour rating should be improved by +2 to +3 (GM's discretion).
I'm actually not familiar with the setting, but it looks fairly well balanced.


43) Races / Templates which grant Darkvision will have that darkvision replaced with Low Light vision and a +4 modifier to the Spot skill.
As long as monsters get the same treatment it should work out fine. Ranger > Rogue because he can cast Darkvision!


44) Passive Spot and Listen skill checks will be used - character's rank + modifiers + 10 - in all instances where such checks would be appropriate and the player has not indicated active spotting / listening.
That should save some dice rolling every time they go around a corner.


45) We will be using the Vitality / Wound alternate rules from the Unearthed Arcana.
Those are fun. Watch out for a Psychic Weapon Master with an 11-20 and Power Attack + Deep Impact. (18-20 base, +2 applied in the most beneficial order for 16-20, doubled for Improved Critical for 11-20, but at character level 14+ so maybe permissible.)

[navar100]

As a hypothetical potential player, since I'd get to use Tome of Battle I'm happy, but I always twitch at any campaign that bans Tier 1 and 2. Yes, yes, I know the potential abuse, but that's just it, potential. I'm not going to chain Gate, be a bear riding a bear summoning bears, or persist spells up the whazoo with twenty nightsticks. I just don't think it so horrible a wizard, cleric, or druid exists. I'd give Pathfinder Paladin a look.

[Slipperychicken]

You actually use the massive damage rules? Although realistic-feeling, it basically makes Steadfast Determination (or +24 Fort) mandatory for higher-level melee. My first group used your rule for Natural 1s and 20s, and I like it: it feels much less arbitrary than auto-hit/miss, while still letting chance work its magic.

[Tyger]

As a hypothetical potential player, since I'd get to use Tome of Battle I'm happy, but I always twitch at any campaign that bans Tier 1 and 2. Yes, yes, I know the potential abuse, but that's just it, potential. I'm not going to chain Gate, be a bear riding a bear summoning bears, or persist spells up the whazoo with twenty nightsticks. I just don't think it so horrible a wizard, cleric, or druid exists. I'd give Pathfinder Paladin a look.

Well, the absence of Tier One is really a function of the world we're playing in - there is little to no magic in the realm, so clerics, wizards and the like have no place in the setting. I was originally open to having some magic, but the players decided that their classes would be initially non-magic using ones, though some can develop spell casting at a later time. Specifically we have:
a Ranger who is going the scout/sniper route
a Rogue specializing in poisons
a Knight who is looking carefully at the PF Cavalier
a Swordsage who is avoiding the supernatural abilities for the moment and,
a Psychic Warrior who is forsaking, again for the moment, the obvious manifestations of anything magical/supernatural.

The books have progressed with magic slowly returning to the world, so by the time real magic is an issue for these folks (say level 7-9), the metaplot of the books will have advanced enough that some magic in their lives will fit the books.


You actually use the massive damage rules? Although realistic-feeling, it basically makes Steadfast Determination (or +24 Fort) mandatory for higher-level melee. My first group used your rule for Natural 1s and 20s, and I like it: it feels much less arbitrary than auto-hit/miss, while still letting chance work its magic.

God no! Does anyone use the massive damage rules? What gave you the idea that we were using those?

As for the 1/20 rule, I'm glad to hear that it has worked for a few people, though I certainly understand the reluctance of others.

[VarianArdell]

42) Valyrian Steel: The lasting legacy of the Freehold of Valyria is the legendary Valyrian steel. It is darker than normal steel and holds an impossibly fine edge, capable of shearing through armour.

There are thousands of Valyrian steel weapons in the world, but only a few hundred in the Seven Kingdoms. They are highly prized and almost never found in common markets. They are described as priceless for it is nearly impossible to find an owner of a Valyrian blade willing to sell.

Valyrian steel reduces the weight of a weapon by 25%. Bladed weapons gain an +3 to all damage and attack rolls. Armour and shields provide only half their normal Armour Rating against blades made of the rare material. A bludgeoning weapon crafted entirely of Valyrian steel would only gain the +3 to attack rolls. All Valyrian steel weapons are considered to be of masterwork quality, and do not receive further bonuses.

Though it is unheard of, armour could presumably be made of Valyrian steel. Such armour would weigh 25% of normal, have an Armour Check Penalty reduced by 2, a Max Dex Bonus +2; furthermore its armour value would not be halved when opposed by a Valyrian steel weapon, and its armour rating should be improved by +2 to +3 (GM's discretion).

the bolded texts contradict each other...

[kardar233]

No they don't. It's perfectly clear. Specific trumps general.

You should check out Guardians of Order's old ASoIaF RPG. It's quite good. Other things to look at might be Monte Cook's Iron Heroes RPG. Both are good for the gritty, low-magic setting.

Some things to try would be the Armor as DR rules and then on top of that use a parry system, where you make a defense roll against their attack (taking a cumulative penalty on consecutive rolls). A simple opposed attack roll (plus shield modifier?) could work.

The only rule I don't like there is the one about PrCs. If you see classes as in-game constructs (as in, Bob is a Fighter, so in game he is a Fighter) then I guess I can understand, but I still don't like it.

[Tyger]

the bolded texts contradict each other...

Actually, no they don't. Weapons made of the material halve the armor rating of non-Valyrian steel armor.


No they don't. It's perfectly clear. Specific trumps general.

You should check out Guardians of Order's old ASoIaF RPG. It's quite good. Other things to look at might be Monte Cook's Iron Heroes RPG. Both are good for the gritty, low-magic setting.

Some things to try would be the Armor as DR rules and then on top of that use a parry system, where you make a defense roll against their attack (taking a cumulative penalty on consecutive rolls). A simple opposed attack roll (plus shield modifier?) could work.

The only rule I don't like there is the one about PrCs. If you see classes as in-game constructs (as in, Bob is a Fighter, so in game he is a Fighter) then I guess I can understand, but I still don't like it.

Yes, we are looking at the Guardian Order version for a lot of the material, in fact the Valyrian steel stuff is straight out of there.

And while I don't see the character's classes defining whoand what they are, dipping for the prime stuff is sort of contrary to what we're aiming for here, which is the sole motivation for this rule.