Displacement and invisibility......?

[Devronq]

I have had many people on this site advise me to use displacement and invisibility at the same time as the 50% miss chance stack causing you to have to roll 2 times. I see very little evidence that back ups the fact that these stack and huge amounts of evidence that says they dont. I was arguing that they do stack but again that was only because i was suggested as such by people on this site. We argued for an hour about this and i just gave in that they dont stack. The main reasons they dont stack is
1. They both give concealment and it specifically says in the description of concealment that multiple instances do not stack.
2. Displacement is an illusion effect and an illusion effect can only function if you can see it and since your invisible displacement shouldn't matter.

I basically see no reason they should stack then is this just another example of being given bad advise or does someone have a valid reason they should stack?

[The Boz]

I can't think of a reason why they should stack either.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Well, given my rudimentary knowledge of 3.5 rules...

Displacement (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/displacement.htm) doesn't give total concealment, but rather a 50% miss chance, "as if" the creature had total concealment. It then goes on to note that unlike in total concealment, the creature can still be targeted normally.

I'm confused what you mean by "an illusion effect can only function if you can see it". You can't see invisibility, which is also an illusion effect... :smallconfused:

The way to think of it might be thus: you get Displacement cast on you, thus appearing where you're not. You then get Invisibility cast, so that not only do you appear displaced, but you appear displaced and invisible. So, the 50% of the time you're not missed due to Displacement, the enemy still has to go through an additional 50% chance to miss because you're invisible. Thus, a 75% total chance to be missed.

[Galanar]

I agree displacement as an illusion should not stack.

To be able to be affected by an illusion I must be able to perceive it.

Invisibility makes that what I perceive is what I should perceive if there was nothing there, thus cancelling any other visual illusion.

On the other hand, if you were under a displacement effect not visual ( you blink in and out of place "for reals" since that would not be a visual illusion it would stack.


Lets add a Darkness spell, I could be under a thousand visual illusion, however since I am inside the darkness spell these would not stack.

If displacement had a sonore effect, then I could agree that it would stack, since it also fools the other sense you may use to locate the invisible creature.


Another example, Were I to use displacement against a blind opponent, I would not receive any benefit.