3.5 Fencer Optimization/Build Request

[Athelian]

The title is pretty self explanatory, but I'm looking for help building a dueling-oriented single-weapon fencer - While the campaign is pretty roleplay oriented and the battles aren't overwhelming, the DM does have numerous opportunities to have one-on-one fights and, conceptually, I'm going for a courtier-esque, rapier wielding nobleman who gains bonuses against a target at a time - Maybe multiclass with this Knight rebuild: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2654.0 for the knight's challenge or this swashbuckler http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Swashbuckler_(3.5e_Class) for the fencing bonuses (but scrap the nautical theme =P)?

The group I'm joining is currently at level three, so there isn't much maneuverability, at the moment, but I'm looking to see how I can branch out. Thanks for the help and support.

[sirpercival]

Factotum + Iaijutsu focus is what you want to do. Factotums are a blast, and single combat is the best thing for IF. Dip Warblade for Sapphire Nightmare Blade and more Int->everything.

[Metahuman1]

Tome of Battle is your best friend. Martial Maneuvers will make it a much more viable Concept. IF you decide you want to go for one heavy duty hit a round, Duskblade 3, Monk 1 with Decisive Strike AFC, and a bit of Shou Disciple for using swords with Decisive strike are good ideas.

Alternatively, Bards with the right feats and gear can really make this work.

[NineThePuma]

I'm not sure if this lagged out horribly or not.

BG is down right now so we can't see your knight rebuild.


Since Homebrew is (likely), I can dig up some old stuff from Seerow for Einhander combat. It was really nice as I recall.

[Seerow]

tbh your best bet is swordsage or warblade with an emphasis on Diamond Mind maneuvers.


The classes and feats specifically aimed at one handed weapon wielding really suck at it.


edit: The homebrew feats mentioned by Puma are here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199946

[NineThePuma]

Seerow, I swear to Vecna, you ninja edit'd on me.

I hate you for the next five minutes.

EDIT: Exact post link is Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11032123&postcount=3).

[Seerow]

Seerow, I swear to Vecna, you ninja edit'd on me.

I hate you for the next five minutes.

EDIT: Exact post link is Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11032123&postcount=3).

These next 5 minutes are the worst 5 minutes of my life.

[NineThePuma]

No worries, back to being impressed with your awesome.

I'm surprised you didn't point him toward your other goodies (PrCs in particular).

[Seerow]

No worries, back to being impressed with your awesome.

I'm surprised you didn't point him toward your other goodies (PrCs in particular).

I don't like suggesting homebrew when someone is asking for optimization. If he is interested in homebrew, he can check out the duelist and swashbuckler prestiges in my sig.

[NineThePuma]

True, he just mentioned that he wanted to use homebrew classes for it was why I brought it up.


I'll further second Warblade and Factotum.

[gorfnab]

Here are two single weapon fencing type builds that may give you some ideas. Are flaws/traits available in your game by any chance?

Human
1. Cobra Strike (UA) Monk - Camendine Monk, Combat Expertise, B: Dodge
2. Cobra Strike (UA) Monk - B: Mobility
3. Swashbuckler - Deadly Defense, B: Weapon Finesse
4. Swashbuckler
5. Swashbuckler
6. Thief Acrobat - Combat Reflexes
7. Thief Acrobat
8. Thief Acrobat
9. Thief Acrobat - Einhander
10. Thief Acrobat
11. Warblade
12. Warblade or Duelist - Ironheart Aura
13. Duelist
14. Duelist
15. Duelist - Robilar's Gambit
16. Duelist
17. Duelist
18. Duelist - Stormgaurd Warrior
19. Duelist
20. Duelist

Levels 10 through 12 can be rearranged depending on your needs. The current setup gives you Improved Evasion and Uncanny Dodge at these levels. However if you don't need Improved Evasion take one less level of Thief Acrobat and move the first level of Warblade to level 10. If you don't need Uncanny Dodge don't take the 2nd level of Warblade and instead go into Duelist a level early. If you don't need either abilities take Warblade at level 10 and enter Duelist at level 11.


Human
1. Cobra Strike (UA) Monk - Camendine Monk, Combat Expertise, B: Dodge
2. Cobra Strike (UA) Monk - B: Mobility
3. Swashbuckler - EWP Broadblade Shortword (pre-errata version) B: Weapon Finesse
4. Swashbuckler
5. Swashbuckler
6. Thief Acrobat - Deadly Defense
7. Thief Acrobat
8. Thief Acrobat
9. Thief Acrobat - Einhander
10. Thief Acrobat
11. Duelist
12. Duelist - Combat Reflexes
13. Duelist
14. Duelist
15. Duelist - Robilar's Gambit
16. Duelist
17. Duelist
18. Duelist - Karmic Strike, Improved Combat Expertise, or Snap Kick
19. Duelist - B: Deflect Arrows
20. Duelist

If you can't get or don't want EWP: Broadblade Shortsword, move Combat Reflexes to 3rd level and add Snap Kick (best option) or Improved Combat Expertise (decent option) to 12th level

[sirpercival]

Here's a factotum build.

Human
1 Factotum 1, Skill Focus: Iaijutsu Focus, Font of Inspiration
2 Cloistered Cleric 1, Travel Devotion, Knowledge Devotion, Trickery Devotion
3 Warblade 1, Weapon Finesse
4 Factotum 2
5 Factotum 3
6 Master of Masks 1, Boomerang Daze
7-19 Factotum 4-16, all feats Font of Inspiration
20 Warblade 2

You're mostly SAD intelligence; you only need an 11 wisdom for your first-level CC spells (if you even care), and strength is mostly irrelevant since you're using Weapon Finesse and Iaijutsu Focus/Knowledge Devotion for damage. If you have a flaw and can take Faerie Mysteries Initiate you can even dump Con because you'll get hp from Int.

Max out Iaijutsu Focus, Concentration, Use Magic Device, Tumble, Sleight of Hand, Bluff, Knowledges, and take 5 ranks in Balance. Boost your Int as high as possible and use a +1 Warning Eager Aptitude Gnomish Quickrazor with Boomerang Daze to win initiative and shut down your opponent's actions. Use the Gladiator Mask from MoM at all times for your EWPs. Use Sapphire Nightmare Blade to make your opponent flat-footed to trigger IF.

For added kicks, your shade (from Trickery Devotion) can IF people too. :)

[Fax Celestis]

You could try my fencer (http://forum.faxcelestis.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=115) class.

[NineThePuma]

You could try my fencer (http://forum.faxcelestis.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=115) class.

Too much conversion back to 3.5 work. Am lazy. Just saying. You hand the players a bit of a job to convert it back

[Fax Celestis]

Too much conversion back to 3.5 work. Am lazy. Just saying. You hand the players a bit of a job to convert it back

Remove prowess. Give it the following skills: Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex), with 4+Int per level. Give a new Brave Fencer ability every other level. Everything else should be exactly the same.

[kulosle]

Here's a factotum build.

Human
1 Factotum 1, Skill Focus: Iaijutsu Focus, Font of Inspiration
2 Cloistered Cleric 1, Travel Devotion, Knowledge Devotion, Trickery Devotion
3 Warblade 1, Weapon Finesse
4 Factotum 2
5 Factotum 3
6 Master of Masks 1, Boomerang Daze
7-19 Factotum 4-16, all feats Font of Inspiration
20 Warblade 2

You're mostly SAD intelligence; you only need an 11 wisdom for your first-level CC spells (if you even care), and strength is mostly irrelevant since you're using Weapon Finesse and Iaijutsu Focus/Knowledge Devotion for damage. If you have a flaw and can take Faerie Mysteries Initiate you can even dump Con because you'll get hp from Int.

Max out Iaijutsu Focus, Concentration, Use Magic Device, Tumble, Sleight of Hand, Bluff, Knowledges, and take 5 ranks in Balance. Boost your Int as high as possible and use a +1 Warning Eager Aptitude Gnomish Quickrazor with Boomerang Daze to win initiative and shut down your opponent's actions. Use the Gladiator Mask from MoM at all times for your EWPs. Use Sapphire Nightmare Blade to make your opponent flat-footed to trigger IF.

For added kicks, your shade (from Trickery Devotion) can IF people too. :)

can i just say that i love and appreciate how much you are into the factotum. they are my second favorite class and i have to admit a 3-8 level dip is great for every build almost. second i would have to second this build. i have personally played it and love it. there isn't much you can't do with it. especially when you gm was nice and let you change the arcane spells to psionics, totally broke his game and he's never letting that happen again.