speed of level progression

[limejuicepowder]

Like the title suggests, how quickly do PC's typically gain levels? I've been DM'ing for the past couple months, and I'm curious to know when level should be expected. Our group generally starts at level 5, but when I see campaigns on the forums that are going to last 1-20, I think "damn, are they intending to play the same game weekly for the next 4 years?" I feel somewhat overwhelmed by the amount of story and content I would have to make up to last that many levels, making me think I'm a) leveling too slowly, or b) progressing the story too fast (add more fluff/side quests maybe?).

An important thing to note is our group has largely done away with the traditional XP system; PC's gain a level after going through a significant plot point along with several tough battles.

Should I/we be handling this differently? I'd love for the characters to get at least to 10-12, but like I said above even that is an unbelievably long story.

[Eisirt]

According to the DMG it takes about 14 level appropriate encounters to reach the next level.

Considering that, take into account average playing time per session and frequency of play... you do the math. ;-)

[Thrice Dead Cat]

To add to what Eisirt said, by the math, it takes 13.333... encounters of the same ECL as a group of 4 X level adventurers to gain a level.

Math gets weird, by the book, in the event that not everyone is the same level.


Honestly, it's easier to wing the experience point system and let PCs level up by the speed of plot. Or every other session. Or every month, whatever works for your group. YMMV.

[Flickerdart]

Many people on this board are optimizers to some extent, meaning that CRs have to be raised to compensate, meaning more XP by default. In my games, we generally face 1-2 powerful (CR+3-4) encounters per day. Overcoming a CR+3 threat yields roughly 1/3 of the XP necessary to level up at 1st level, 1/4 at 2nd, 1/5 at 3rd and so on - it seems to average out at 1/4ish, so it would take the group 80 sessions to go from 1 to 20.

[marcielle]

Speed of plot is generally the best way to go IMO. Heck, I have a DM that goes 'Hmm, the enemies are going to kick it up a notch, how much xp do you need for next level? There you go'.

[Godskook]

Personally, I threw out the cr->xp system a while back, and have enjoyed the change of pace quite well. My players, between optimization and party size, fight above their ECL, which made leveling far too fast. In addition, party members would often get too overzelous to kill things, depriving the group of roleplay and/or leading to things that made no sense in character(like power leveling).

I changed to handing out enough xp to achieve a level once every 4 weeks, and then added a "build points" system that allows me to give more 'effective' xp for purposes other than leveling, such as buying additional feats, raising point-buy values, maximizing HD, or buying gestalt levels. This build point system also allows me to reward survival and attendance quite handily, while still allowing new players to come in at the same 'level' as the rest of the party.

(To date, the most popular of the build point options has been maximizing their own HD)

[0nimaru]

Group of 5 (4 PCs + DM) and we usually make it through 3-4 combats in a session (5-6 hours). With a bit of ad-libbed experience for non-combat encounters this causes the party to level up every 3-4 sessions.

To be honest, I'm awful about tracking down the XP rewards for the party and usually have in mind the points of the campaign where they should be leveling. These aren't set in stone, but it does help in case I forget to count up after a session.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

i gave up on the xp system long ago. the last game I ran lasted fro a year and a half, we played almost every week, and in that time the party went from level 3 to level 8, if i recall correctly. I was happy doing a slow, plot dependent leveling system where if the party really worked their ass off at a sort of chapter ending ending encounter, they got their level. it also happened to coincide (generally) with when the players started to get antsy for said level.

I feel a more organic approach is better than the static, "you got this much xp, here you go" method. it blends the number crunch of the characters on paper with the characters as they are in-game: as people without numbers defining who they are.

[Aegis013]

I must be really impatient. I get antsy if my group goes 2 weeks without leveling. (I'm a player)

...I simply get bored with my abilities.
I always end up being the party face, which I don't mind because it means I always have something to do out of combat, but after using my set of abilities for a few fights I just get antsy to try new abilities/spells.

I even play a Wizard so I can prepare different spells every day and basically have different abilities.

When I DM, the party will most likely level every session, or in other systems, gain enough XP to see marked change in their character's abilities. It always bothers me when you complete a challenge, get the reward, and in effect it's almost nothing, or has no apparent impact on game play.

Like I said though... I'm probably just impatient.

Edit: Might be affected by the fact that the D&D game I'm in is the first one to last more than 3 weeks when I wasn't the DM. Have not had good luck with DM's following through on promises to run games (and anytime they say they will I hear it as "You'll be lucky to get 1-2 sessions out of me.")

[kardar233]

The XP by CR system is pretty broken, yeah. But that's mainly because I optimize like hell. Two level 5 characters are not supposed to win against 2 5th-level Fighters, 2 5th-level Rogues, 1 7th-level Warblade and 1 8th-level Wizard. Thus, I level ridiculously fast. Which is good, as campaigns don't usually last long in our group. Blame short attention span on the other players' part.

[DoctorGlock]

Interestingly enough, I don't think I've ever been in a game that granted XP rather than flat level-ups anywhere from 1/session (speed i often run games at) to 1/3 sessions. We find it prevents people from getting bored with their abilities as well as allowing a rapid shift into higher power aspects of the game, where my group has the most fun. Also, past a certain point (21), abilities no longer actually increase much, so there is no reason to have a fast or slow or whatever gain since it comes down to "whatever you can think of that day" for your abilities.

[Yora]

In my campaign, characters level up about ever 4 or 5 sessions. Campaigns very rarely pass 6th level.

[Mnemnosyne]

The main problem I see with leveling at the 'speed of plot' is magical item creation. How do those of you who give flat level ups handle a player that actually wants to take magical item feats and use them?

Edit: For that matter, spells with xp cost components have the same question related to them.

[Aegis013]

The main problem I see with leveling at the 'speed of plot' is magical item creation. How do those of you who give flat level ups handle a player that actually wants to take magical item feats and use them?

Edit: For that matter, spells with xp cost components have the same question related to them.

I've been nagging my DM about this, specifically because I'm an extremely optimized Shadowcraft Mage, and our primary melee is a moderately optimized warforge (who is a large part of why I nag my DM on this) and the secondary melee is a strait druid. I want to use Permanency with Heroics to help the primary melee out a bit, and other party members, but the DM keeps avoiding the question. Oh well.

[Urpriest]

The first campaign I ran used by-the-book XP. We met about once a week, took on 4 or so encounters each time, and thus leveled every month or so. We managed to go 1-14 before the game devolved into scheduling conflicts and roleplay issues.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

The main problem I see with leveling at the 'speed of plot' is magical item creation. How do those of you who give flat level ups handle a player that actually wants to take magical item feats and use them?

Edit: For that matter, spells with xp cost components have the same question related to them.

eh, with 3.5 i tended to hand wave it as being down during downtime, in between the main "episodic" sessions. we never found it a big deal, as long as Mr. Crafter shares. Also, our group doesn't care if magic users are more powerful. You know, its magic for a reason. anyway....

Problem solved in Pathfinder, which we switched to about a year back. no xp costs for anything, as far as I remember.

[lunar2]

at our peak, the group i was playing with at the time played daily from 7 am to 7 pm. if you didn't gain at least 2 levels a day, something was wrong. of course, the average encounter lasted 10-20 minutes at low levels (down to 2 minutes by lv. 18, when it was sorc: time stop/delayed blast fireball until out).

[DoctorGlock]

The main problem I see with leveling at the 'speed of plot' is magical item creation. How do those of you who give flat level ups handle a player that actually wants to take magical item feats and use them?

Edit: For that matter, spells with xp cost components have the same question related to them.

We just apply 1XP=5GP and take it out of WBL