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ILM
2011-11-06, 03:38 PM
Edit: since this is becoming a bit specific, would any readers from around Paris please close this tab to avoid spoilers.

In my game, there's a guy playing a wizard who's obsessed with knowledge and secrets and stuff. Kind of archetypal but the whole party is new to D&D so hey, whatever works for them.

The session just ended and I pointed them at their next quest, and the player said to me: "I'll play along, but to be honest my character has no reason to be interested." Well, shucks.

Thing is, he's got a point, kinda. Now I was hoping there'd be more party dynamics at this point (second session) and that even if one wasn't into a quest, he'd just follow his buddies; the party didn't turn out like that (yet?) and that's fine (although I had to get a little railroady to get them together again). And this quest, as far as his character knows at the moment, really does have nothing to do with his primary interests, which are studying tomes of arcane lore and, I guess, questing for more arcane lore.

OOC, I could - and did - argue that in his quest for knowledge surely he was going to need a little cash, so at the very least an odd job would have that benefit. Still, if his character had said no thanks to my NPC, well, he would have had a leg to stand on.

For the moment I'd rather not make a big deal OOC with the player. He's the only one making an effort at roleplaying, and like it or not that was roleplaying. I don't want to discourage it by telling him he's throwing a wrench in my campaign. So I come to you for ideas: how can I deal with this, preferably without reworking all my quest ideas around his character's obsession?

hydroplatypus
2011-11-06, 04:19 PM
Make an arcane caster the villian, or have arcane casters serve the villian. Taking arcane secrets from the dead minions is one way to get arcane knowledge. In later sessions could have someone target the party (past enemy?) and thus it becomes a matter of personal safety/revenge.

Seatbelt
2011-11-06, 04:22 PM
Whats the quest they're going on? I might have some ideas to make it more interesting but it helps to know what they're doing. I don't want to give advice like "have there be rumors of a library that trades spells" or "an archmage living nearby likes to help aspiring mages so he provides arcane lore for a small sidequest - i mean task" if the adventure is a dungeon crawl.

Dr.Epic
2011-11-06, 05:07 PM
The session just ended and I pointed them at their next quest, and the player said to me: "I'll play along, but to be honest my character has no reason to be interested." Well, shucks.

Well, there must be some new knowledge he can discover on this quest. Or, if he's a nerd like the title says, just tell him he can meet chicks; that'll motivate any nerd.:smallwink: Or, if you really want to be a jerk, just say "Fine. You're character doesn't go along. Now spend an hour making a new one while we play, then wait another hour or two for us to introduce you in the story.":smallwink:

kieza
2011-11-06, 06:24 PM
Let him research custom spells or make custom items, and suggest that he go adventuring to give them a field-test.

nedz
2011-11-06, 06:35 PM
Characters have to have a reason to go adventuring, if he has created one which doesn't have such a hook then he should retire the character and start again.
Alternatively the player has to resolve this issue with their character. It is not a problem for the DM to get involved with: The Players own their characters!

ILM
2011-11-06, 07:36 PM
I appreciate the no-nonsense "adventure or retire" stance, and I might be on board with that in other circumstances, but like I said this is a group that's completely new to pen and paper (or almost). I honestly don't think he wants to cause trouble. I'm sure I can just tell him to find a reason to get on board, I just want to see if there's any way for me to meet him half-way, rather than forcing a player to retire a character at the second session just because I don't like his motivations.

The quest in question is to investigate and sort out a situation near a forest. Short version: the sun stopped rising, people go nuts and want light and warmth at any cost, price of wood shoots up so much that ordinary people can't afford firewood anymore - which is a 3-fold problem: light, warmth, cooking. This being the early stages of the campaign, everyone's still getting their legs under them and the authorities are in a state of disarray, especially with the spike in crime and arson (mostly from people desperate for the tiniest bit of light). The party - mostly mercenaries, except for said character who's with the local mage's guild - just finished fetching an old book for the head of the said guild who thinks it may contain clues. The idea with the forest is that with the sun gone, the now-perpetually dark world starts taking morphic qualities of the Plane of Shadow, sympathetically if you will, which causes small spontaneous breaches. Everybody thinks the lumberjack guild is just out for a quick buck, but the truth is that a pocket of Shadow appeared inside the forest and started corrupting stuff that's now attacking the woodcutters. They don't want any of that, stop working, so the people in charge must start offering huge premiums for anyone to take the risk of working for them - hence the jacked prices. The party is sent out to fix that.

So anyway. I'm sure his character will find some interest in the whole Plane of Shadow deal, but I couldn't exactly break that to him before he got there.

Regarding other points mentioned here:
- The villain is an arcane caster and I expect many of the minions they'll encounter before him will be too. The problem is that this is the very beginning of the campaign, they're level 2 (now 3), and things are still pretty mundane - some of the players are still confused about hp and AC, I'm not going to throw tricked out casters at them just yet.
- I was hoping the whole 'world on the brink of cold death' would make it personal enough, but apparently not enough for them to go on any wild goose chase I want to send them on. I could make it personal, but they're not scheduled to meet their first recurring villain before a few sessions...

Dr.Epic
2011-11-06, 07:41 PM
I appreciate the no-nonsense "adventure or retire" stance, and I might be on board with that in other circumstances, but like I said this is a group that's completely new to pen and paper (or almost). I honestly don't think he wants to cause trouble. I'm sure I can just tell him to find a reason to get on board, I just want to see if there's any way for me to meet him half-way, rather than forcing a player to retire a character at the second session just because I don't like his motivations.

The quest in question is to investigate and sort out a situation near a forest. Short version: the sun stopped rising, people go nuts and want light and warmth at any cost, price of wood shoots up so much that ordinary people can't afford firewood anymore - which is a 3-fold problem: light, warmth, cooking. This being the early stages of the campaign, everyone's still getting their legs under them and the authorities are in a state of disarray, especially with the spike in crime and arson (mostly from people desperate for the tiniest bit of light). The party - mostly mercenaries, except for said character who's with the local mage's guild - just finished fetching an old book for the head of the said guild who thinks it may contain clues. The idea with the forest is that with the sun gone, the now-perpetually dark world starts taking morphic qualities of the Plane of Shadow, sympathetically if you will, which causes small spontaneous breaches. Everybody thinks the lumberjack guild is just out for a quick buck, but the truth is that a pocket of Shadow appeared inside the forest and started corrupting stuff that's now attacking the woodcutters. They don't want any of that, stop working, so the people in charge must start offering huge premiums for anyone to take the risk of working for them - hence the jacked prices. The party is sent out to fix that.

So anyway. I'm sure his character will find some interest in the whole Plane of Shadow deal, but I couldn't exactly break that to him before he got there.

Regarding other points mentioned here:
- The villain is an arcane caster and I expect many of the minions they'll encounter before him will be too. The problem is that this is the very beginning of the campaign, they're level 2 (now 3), and things are still pretty mundane - some of the players are still confused about hp and AC, I'm not going to throw tricked out casters at them just yet.
- I was hoping the whole 'world on the brink of cold death' would make it personal enough, but apparently not enough for them to go on any wild goose chase I want to send them on. I could make it personal, but they're not scheduled to meet their first recurring villain before a few sessions...

The sun stopped rising? What research-driven type wouldn't want to go see why this is happening? That's kind of interesting and I'd be curious to see why that's happening. Orcs or some monster rampaging, there's no research that can be done there. But a natural phenomena just stops occurring, what kind of wizard/scientist would check that out?

Gavinfoxx
2011-11-06, 07:42 PM
The price of food and items which create food magically would skyrocket too, as creatures which couldn't hibernate start dying

HerrTenko
2011-11-06, 08:00 PM
Another nice way to get him interested is to get him for a small solo session (something like 15 minutes). The guild tells him there has been something really weird with one of the patients at the local dispensary. He's babbling about the strange things he's seen in the woods, and nobody knows what happened to him. They want him to go hear what he has to say.
Once he gets to the hospital, he gets to meet said patient, who appears to be one of the daring lumberjacks who agreed to go work in the forest. Of course, he's almost completely mad, and your player won't be able to decypher most of the things he'll say. But this way, you can give him some clues about what's going on in there, and hint at the potentially magical threat.

All it takes is 15 minutes of roleplaying a Mages Guild clerk and a crazy lumberjack. =D

nedz
2011-11-06, 08:10 PM
Actually I prefer my second option. Character motivation is the player's issue, at least if they are role-players, and from what you have said this is the case.

I appreciate that you need to achive player buy in to a new campaign, but I think you should give it a little time. I suspect that the player will resolve this issue by themselves. You have only run one session: so it is probably too early to start fixing 'problems'. You run the risk of causing more issues by the law of unintended consequences. I would give them a lot more space, and time. The players have to develop their characters, and this does take quite some time. You have to give them the space to do that.

JerichoPenumbra
2011-11-06, 08:41 PM
Building a little off of what has been said, have some of the villains be arcane casters (or cultists) collecting incantations either as a whole or in parts. One of the incantations might have been responsible for the sun going out and the players have to find a new one to reverse it.

Incantations might also be good motivation for this guy in the long run. For example there's the Dweller on the Threshold (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/incantations.htm#callForththeDweller) a Lovcraftian-vibe of creature focused on secrets in relation to doors. You could design similar otherworldly beings of various power (read: incantation levels) focused on secrets based on a theme and offer means to contact them as an incentive for the character.

Also, just as a suggestion, if you use the taint system from Heroes of Horror you could have some of the incantations he finds exude taint once he casts them or something like that. It could also pave the way for the tainted scholar prestige class, fitting in with the whole "nerd" theme. Then again you probably aren't going to include that system because of most of your players being relatively new and you not wanting to complicate it for them further.

If you do use any of these suggestions mind letting me know how they work out? I like knowing if I've helped.

gomanfox
2011-11-07, 03:28 PM
The sun stopped rising? What research-driven type wouldn't want to go see why this is happening? That's kind of interesting and I'd be curious to see why that's happening. Orcs or some monster rampaging, there's no research that can be done there. But a natural phenomena just stops occurring, what kind of wizard/scientist would check that out?

This. Exactly. If the player is playing a knowledge-obsessed character and he isn't interested at all why the laws of the natural world are no longer working as they should, something is wrong. I was playing an Archivist//Wizard in the last campaign I was in, and something like that would have made that character jump at the chance to investigate it, whether he was paid for it or not, just because it's weird.

If the character is more interested in learning through books in a private study or something, I don't see why they'd become an adventurer in the first place. If that's the case, the player might want to consider changing their character a little bit, they could still prefer books over field research, but unusual happenings like that should spark some sort of curiosity at least.

ILM
2011-11-07, 06:14 PM
Well he's interested in the sun not rising thing; it's just that he argued (not incorrectly) that there's no immediate connection between that and woodcutters having problems. There is, in fact, but he doesn't know that and will only find out once he's there and sees the fabulous shadow creatures I've statted up for them to encounter :smalltongue:.

Metahuman1
2011-11-07, 06:28 PM
Hmmmm, well, couple of options.

First, is the nerd mage interested in the ladys at all? (He might not be in character but I know in real life a lot of Geeks/Nerds LOVE to do things that get the attention of attractive lady's.) Make the Woodcutters have Female relatives whom would be very impressed by anyone who helped successfully. Cudo's if they happen to have something about them he'd find particularly attractive. (Everyone has a preference after all. Blond, Red Head, Amazon, Super Petit, Tomboyish, Artsy, Fellow Nerd, ext. Cater to the characters Preference.)

Second, if the first doesn't appeal, have him over hear an old story teller giving tales he insists are true story's of a mage who once lived in that area who commanded odd creatures (Give him enough to make him suspect something he's interested in but not enough to out right give it away.), and had many tomes of lore in his personal library before he died years ago.

Now he's got Arcane Lore as incentive, and he can change his mind about going and catch up to the rest of the party before they actually have anything happen. That way he role plays it and does so the way he wants to and still goes with the party on the quest, they just split for a little bit and you as DM just make sure that in this instance that proves irrelevant.

horngeek
2011-11-07, 06:29 PM
Well he's interested in the sun not rising thing; it's just that he argued (not incorrectly) that there's no immediate connection between that and woodcutters having problems. There is, in fact, but he doesn't know that and will only find out once he's there and sees the fabulous shadow creatures I've statted up for them to encounter :smalltongue:.

Additional rumors that there are creatures of shadow attacking the woodcutters.

Alternatively. He's a member of a guild, you say? The guildmaster tells him to go, because they need arcane expertise and he's the only one available. If you're a low-ranking member of an organisation, you occasionally need to suck it up and do what your superiors say, even if you don't like it. :smalltongue:

Silma
2011-11-07, 06:43 PM
While it is generally true that it is a player's responsibility to find a way for his character to fit in the party and in the world, when you're dealing with a new player it would be wise to encourage him be spending that little extra time. I totally support your commitment.


Another nice way to get him interested is to get him for a small solo session (something like 15 minutes). The guild tells him there has been something really weird with one of the patients at the local dispensary. He's babbling about the strange things he's seen in the woods, and nobody knows what happened to him. They want him to go hear what he has to say.
Once he gets to the hospital, he gets to meet said patient, who appears to be one of the daring lumberjacks who agreed to go work in the forest. Of course, he's almost completely mad, and your player won't be able to decypher most of the things he'll say. But this way, you can give him some clues about what's going on in there, and hint at the potentially magical threat.

All it takes is 15 minutes of roleplaying a Mages Guild clerk and a crazy lumberjack. =D


That is a great idea. You can tell him to come 30 mins before the others and have a 15 min session with him.

:smallamused:Or you can leave him behind and THEN have the wizards at the guild tell him that the strange things happening in the forest might be connected to the sun-not-rising problem. :smalltongue:

NOhara24
2011-11-08, 07:41 AM
The session just ended and I pointed them at their next quest, and the player said to me: "I'll play along, but to be honest my character has no reason to be interested." Well, shucks.




"You're right, your character has no reason to be interested. So you're dropping out? Cool story bro."

I don't mean to sound hard-assed, but it's the DM's job to create an enthralling quest for as much of the party as humanly possible. If ONE player is complaining that "Oh, my character isn't interested." I'd tell him to deal with it, or stop playing. That sounds like a player who has no appreciation for how much work DMing entails.