PDA

View Full Version : What are people's favorite powers?



Tvtyrant
2011-11-06, 08:25 PM
Effectively, what powers would people want to be able to have in a game most? Why? The powers can be from any media or source, I just want to have a general list of things people want in a game.

Dr.Epic
2011-11-06, 08:28 PM
Wolverine, because who would want his powers?:smallwink:

comicshorse
2011-11-06, 08:51 PM
As a player Teleportation is the best thing to have

As a G.M. the Players having Teleportation is the worst thing for them to have

Dusk Eclipse
2011-11-06, 09:53 PM
Difficult question to answer, it does depend on the game though, but some general powers I would love to have in a game:

Shapeshifting
Bending as in Avatar the last Airbender; but not restricted to the elements in the show, include things like metal, shadows, light, etc.
Telepathy
Magic (perhaps more controlled than in D&D):smalltongue:

Psyren
2011-11-06, 09:58 PM
Clairsentience. The whole thing really. I'd be the next Warren Buffet and nobody would even be sure that I have powers.

elonin
2011-11-06, 10:45 PM
The ability to do magic and have it affect the world as much as the rule books imply.

Sith_Happens
2011-11-06, 10:57 PM
This. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFtw7qW7Vcw) 'Nuff said.

Tvtyrant
2011-11-06, 11:17 PM
Interesting. I have a sub query: Would magic be acceptable as a power? As in Wolverine, Spiderman, and then the Magician? <-Not a serious grouping, just showing an example.

Dusk Eclipse
2011-11-06, 11:32 PM
Well there is Dr. Strange and IIRC Dr. Doom did have some magic powers, not to mention the Scarlet Witch, Niko Minoru and the other wizard/magician/sorcerers from the marvel verse.

The Reverend
2011-11-06, 11:50 PM
I believe cracked.com's AfterHours folks actually came up with the Best Answer for the Win- Zack from Saved by the Bell had the power to stop time and therefore every incident in his life always went the way he wanted it to.

flumphy
2011-11-07, 12:02 AM
Does Deadpool's ability to see through the fourth wall count? :smalltongue:

Seriously, though, it depends on the genre. Certain powers are more suited to a superhero game than heroic fantasy or vice versa.

Xefas
2011-11-07, 12:47 AM
The power to wear white clothing without being murdered is one of the greatest and most prestigious powers in Paranoia. I kind of like white clothes, so that's a pretty neat power to have.

Tvtyrant
2011-11-07, 12:51 AM
The power to wear white clothing without being murdered is one of the greatest and most prestigious powers in Paranoia. I kind of like white clothes, so that's a pretty neat power to have.

I...Don't get it. :smallfrown:

Wyntonian
2011-11-07, 12:56 AM
I have two choices.

One, control what people sense and perceive. Guy tries to mug you? He drops to the groud screaming, feeling himself burn as he watches his clothing flutter away as little wisps of ash and smells his body roast. Physically, he's totally fine, aside from people possibly laughing and wondering what he's doing. Alternatively, make him see Cthulu rip out of your chest and speak to him. Yeah. I know.

Two, control what people think. Not consciously, but those little gut urges you get. "Run", "Fear", "Respect", "Eat", those sorts of things. Tap into the animal brain and saddle it up.

Gavinfoxx
2011-11-07, 12:56 AM
I...Don't get it. :smallfrown:

In the game of Paranoia, if you wear white clothes (having earned the right to do so), you are at the top of the society and can basically do whatever you want, which generally means 'act like a James Bond Supervillian'.

Dust
2011-11-07, 01:59 AM
Time control is always #1 for me. Slow things down to impress people, time it completely for total freedom, rewind it for everything else.

Elfinor
2011-11-07, 02:57 AM
Regeneration is my favourite, because not only are you immortal (in the 'not dying of old age' sense) but you're also damn difficult to kill, especially by accident. I'd love to live and observe people over centuries. I suppose if you count it as part of the 'body control' power it would also be pretty awesome to do the 'body as a weapon' thing a la T-1000 (Terminator 2) or Lust (Full Metal Alchemist), but that's more like icing on the cake for me. Stock regeneration is all I really want. Barring that, I'd go for telekinesis - nearly any level of that would make be happy... in my pants.

I'm not sure magic or 'being a psychic' (telepathy+telekinesis and especially with... god forbid... being able to manipulate matter on a molecular level) really can count. They seem to basically be a variety of superpowers rolled into one. You know... 'And if I can do THAT, I can do ANYTHING!' material. It feels like cheating to me:smalltongue: But to each their own. For some reason weather manipulation seems fine to me and that's technically multiple powers - I suppose because it doesn't quite have the same level of flexibility?

Tvtyrant
2011-11-07, 03:04 AM
I agree that they are more versatile than normal ones, but magic doesn't necessarily equal power. Think of how people thought of witches in the 17th century; they might be able to kill someone's cattle or poison them from a distance, but it doesn't stop the farmers from trussing them up and killing them.

Regeneration has been added to the list!

jseah
2011-11-07, 03:55 AM
Since time manipulation is already taken:
Space manipulation

Teleport? Meh, that's like settling for sugar when you have quality chocolate.

The ability to change the structure of space locally. Don't want someone to get to you? Bam, the area around him suddenly has a hyperbolic geometry, now he has to run an infinite amount of distance to go anywhere.

Create a non-orientable wormhole and have your very own Through the Looking Glass effect. (as well as simutaneously doing all manners of horribleness to conservation laws)
- Best to not play around with the Alice universe though. Matter turns into antimatter over there so no one is likely to live very long.

Trap a bullet into a 3-torus and watch it go round and round the same place indefinitely. Maybe you can put one on your shelf for display.

FTL travel (the Alcubierre metric is within reach!). And by extension, closed time-like curves. Of the self-consistent kind. Far more powerful than time rewind.

ZerglingOne
2011-11-07, 04:46 AM
You can cheese telekinesis pretty bad with a rudimentary knowledge of physics to produce nearly any super power or magic effect.

For example, if you have the ability to pull all of the air in a large radius into a very small radius, the resulting temperature, pressure, and oxygen saturation would cause instantaneous combustion of anything flammable much like an internal combustion engine does.

Randel
2011-11-07, 05:34 AM
1). Healing powers - Regeneration is fine for yourself but it's usefulness increases exponentially when you have the power to heal other people as well. If you have the ability to cure cancer, regrow peoples limbs, reverse the effects of aging, and cure normally incurable diseases with a touch then you've got near unlimited potential.

Be a good Samaritan and heal people for free? Check. Be a recluse and just keep yourself healthy forever? Go ahead. Become a miracle doctor and cure people for lots of money? Hey, you've got a jab as long as people with money enjoy living. Become a villainous cult leader who claims to be the chosen avatar of the god of life and instigate a plan to overthrow all other religions and take over the world? Hey, you're immortal as long as you heal yourself and you can actually give your followers eternal life! You've already got two huge advantages over every other cult leader in history and some of them have started nations.


2). Matter manipulation - Sort of like the alchemy powers from Full Metal Alchemist, basically the power to turn random garbage into more useful stuff. That would be incredibly useful for getting rid of garbage or making hard to make stuff.

3). Owning a self-replicating spaceship - I've been playing Space Pirates and Zombies (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SpacePiratesAndZombies) alot lately (got it on sale on Steam) and it cool because you can build ships using material mined from asteroids. A ship like that combines space travel (explore the universe as much as you want), self-sufficiency (mine asteroids to get the materials then fabricate whatever you need as long as you've got blueprints), and a mobile base of operations.

I suppose depending on the setting you could replace that with flying ships, a TARDIS, or similar.

4). Flight and weather manipulation - Kind of like the pegasus ponies from My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. Fly wherever you want and have the option of resting on top of clouds or building a base there. Plus I'm sure you can find some useful things to do with the weather manipulation abilities.

Knaight
2011-11-07, 05:53 AM
Vastly improved memory and cognition. The ability to effortlessly learn languages, to never need to study, and the numerous other things that come with it appeal to me far more than most anything else.

Golden Ladybug
2011-11-07, 06:07 AM
...how has Super Speed not been brought up yet? Surely people on giantitp have read the Flash?

Well, calling it now; Super Speed is the god mode power. When someone tries to stop time at you, you can react faster than they can think, outrun the light barrier, go back to before they started triggering their power and punch them in the face with a fist that is hitting with the force of all the mass in the universe, because Energy=Mass and the Energy required for a object with mass to break the light barrier is infinite, then you have infinite mass at that speed.

And thats not even starting on the whole "Outrun the personification of Death" thing.

And yes, I could go back in time and save those catgirls who just cried out in terror and keeled over.

DoctorGlock
2011-11-07, 06:55 AM
In no particular order...
Teleportation
Temporal Manipulation
Reality Alteration
are my top 3. Any time I play any game I check for some variation on these 3 and then build around it.

Caphi
2011-11-07, 12:24 PM
Probably the most popular hypothetical situation is the superpowers one. If you could have any superpower... You know what ninety percent of people say? [nasal voice] "Ooh, I'd take the ability to fly because I always love it when I fly in my dreams and plus I'd never be late to work ha ha!"

**** you! You could have the ability to do anything. Anything! You could end world hunger! You could cure AIDS! And you picked a power that can be easily replicated with a couple of yards of nylon and a cliff.

You know what superpower I'd pick? The ability to give other people superpowers. You can't tell me it doesn't exist! Somebody used it on me!

So here, all the people who want to end world hunger, form a line to my left, I'll be giving you the ability to shoot linguine noodles out of your wrists like Spider-man. Everyone who wants to cure the world's diseases, form a line down the middle, your spit is now vaccines, go make out with people. Everyone who wants end war, form a line to my right, I'll be giving you the ability to bring people back to life, effectively turning all armed conflict into one big game of force-feedback laser tag. Everyone who wants to be able to fly? Fire escape's that way. Good luck.

I'm disappointed in all of you. (http://tailsteak.com/archive.php?num=496)

Mastikator
2011-11-07, 12:30 PM
Dr. Manhattan's powers is closest to what most people want.

Anderlith
2011-11-07, 12:40 PM
Time Stop is the best. Super Regeneration & Invisibility are a close second

shawnhcorey
2011-11-07, 12:54 PM
Do over (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulligan_%28games%29), unlimited.

jindra34
2011-11-07, 01:08 PM
Shapeshifting, even if limited by mass conservation and only to 'real' living things. Simply because its so flipping versatile.

Dr.Epic
2011-11-07, 01:28 PM
This. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFtw7qW7Vcw) 'Nuff said.

More like this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSz3PBdDVjw&feature=related)

Also, Alchemy from FMA would be pretty cool.

The Reverend
2011-11-07, 01:45 PM
The ability to love completely and truly.

Just_Ice
2011-11-07, 02:15 PM
I'd take a note out of the exploits of certain red-shelled turtles and have the power to never fall off of anything.

Sgt. Cookie
2011-11-07, 02:27 PM
Hmm. Difficult. For me it would have to beable to generate any sort of liquid. Liquid nitrogen? Done. Cyanide? Here ya go. A cup of hot tea? Yep. Got that too.

One Tin Soldier
2011-11-07, 06:49 PM
I'm going to go with telekinesis, particularly if it's combined with some sort of appropriate sensory feedback. (because you can't move something if you don't know where it is)

Though manipulating the fabric of space would be cool too.

jseah
2011-11-07, 07:16 PM
Though manipulating the fabric of space would be cool too.
Telekinesis is just part of that. Although sensory feedback isn't.

And you get teleport as a side effect. As well as varied weapons and defences.

Oh, and the ability to make a non-orientable wormhole. Gotta love the Alice universe where left is right and matter is antimatter. The huge missing chunk of earth (and sudden increase in small objects in the solar system) is just a side effect.

Connington
2011-11-08, 03:09 AM
I'll just say that even a little bit of telekinesis is an incredible power. In games, lots of power have a high entry either up front ("No, you can't teleport until you get to this power level") or on a de facto basis ("Yes you can manipulate the weather, but you can't do cool with it until you get to this power level").

Telekinesis? Most tabletop games hand it out early and cheap, but with the second kind of limitations I mentioned above. The thing is, those limitations don't matter. Being able to move 5 tons of matter or do it from a mile away or whatever cool stuff they don't let you do are all immaterial next to the fact that you can move stuff with your mind.

If you can move a pound of stuff around, you can pick up the shiny dangerous stuff without touching it, pull the pins out of your enemies grenades, trigger traps, grab the keys on the prison wall ten feet away, pull levers and press buttons, and maybe even throw objects or open locks if the system allows. That's just scratching the possibilities of what you can do with the wimpiest kind of telekinesis.

Traab
2011-11-08, 10:09 AM
Something I always wondered about the flash. How the hell does he keep from getting exhausted? Think about it. Yeah he can run around the earth in a couple of seconds, but thats still a LOT of miles he travelled. I can see him pulling off the short range super fast dodging stuff fine, but for those times where he is circling the globe for whatever reason, why arent his legs falling off due to exhaustion of covering roughly 1000x the distance a normal human could travel in a day, inside of a second? Forget all the physics crap, like how the friction of his passage should ignite him in a ball of white hot flame and vaporize him instantly, how does he not get tired?

FFKonoko
2011-11-08, 10:12 AM
I'm disappointed in all of you. (http://tailsteak.com/archive.php?num=496)

..I still am going to say wings.
I must say I doubt the 90% saying flying thing, especially considering how many people here are going more for the incredibly powerful abilities rather than the relatively benign flying.
I suppose I could defend my choice by trying to enhance the choice ala Archangel and having razor sharp metal regenerating wings that can infinitely shoot, or by commenting that flying around happily may not help solve world hunger but it can hardly be the epitome of bad choices compared to choosing a power that has the only possible use of mindraping someone, or so on...

But I think the main point is that the question is "what are people's favorite powers?" and "what powers would you like to see in a game?" not "what power would you choose to best help the world and if you don't pick something that can be specifically used to solve hunger or such you should kill yourself"

So, yeah, I pick wings. Travel options are always nice in a game, and being able to do overwatch, handy roof access, death from above, aeriel combat...makes for a power that is not too hard to deal with from a DM POV, can have some suprisingly frequent uses but is still fairly useful.
Mages may often loudly proclaim their love of fireballs and time stop, but I daresay feather fall/long travel times/fly/climbing come up fairly often...and also IRL.


Edit:


Something I always wondered about the flash. How the hell does he keep from getting exhausted? Think about it. Yeah he can run around the earth in a couple of seconds, but thats still a LOT of miles he travelled. I can see him pulling off the short range super fast dodging stuff fine, but for those times where he is circling the globe for whatever reason, why arent his legs falling off due to exhaustion of covering roughly 1000x the distance a normal human could travel in a day, inside of a second? Forget all the physics crap, like how the friction of his passage should ignite him in a ball of white hot flame and vaporize him instantly, how does he not get tired?

Short version, he gets energy from the speed force, likewise he is protected by a energy field. Alternate short version, its just how his power works, his food is not the sole source of power for his legs, nor his muscles the sole source of his velocity.

Additional sidenote: In some comics, he DOES also eat a ridiculous amount of food. Its still not enough to really balance out the stuff he does, but felt it worth mentioning.

Knaight
2011-11-08, 10:19 AM
Something I always wondered about the flash. How the hell does he keep from getting exhausted? Think about it. Yeah he can run around the earth in a couple of seconds, but thats still a LOT of miles he travelled. I can see him pulling off the short range super fast dodging stuff fine, but for those times where he is circling the globe for whatever reason, why arent his legs falling off due to exhaustion of covering roughly 1000x the distance a normal human could travel in a day, inside of a second? Forget all the physics crap, like how the friction of his passage should ignite him in a ball of white hot flame and vaporize him instantly, how does he not get tired?

Wait. So, we are forgetting all the physics crap, such as the friction igniting him, the G-forces damaging him, the relativistic effects, the way the air he hits will be greatly accelerated and heat up as a result, the sonic boom he is subjecting his body to, and others. Yet, the chemistry stuff, like the process of using body fat for energy, or the processes in aerobic and anaerobic respiration is worth considering after we've done that?

Eldan
2011-11-08, 12:10 PM
In real life, Immortality, followed closely by time travel.

In a game, however, I'm partial to mind control, dream control and illusion. If at the end of a fight, the enemy is not questioning his sanity, you are doing it wrong.

Tvtyrant
2011-11-08, 12:14 PM
• Teleportation
• Time Slowing/stopping
• Flying
• Umbra Dance-creating umbras like those in MtG
• Controlling the emotions of others.
• Shapeshifting
• Creating living bombs
• Magic
• Regeneration
• Prophecy
• Psychic
• Super strength
• Gravity/spacetime manipulation
• Illusions
• Immortality/invincibility
• love

jseah
2011-11-08, 12:34 PM
Not sure how you guys look at your time travel, but my favourite power would be time travel. Of the self-consistent kind (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novikov_self-consistency_principle).

All sorts of crazy things you can do with that.

Especially since you don't even have to learn about the power normally. You could very well learn it by your future self travelling back in time and teaching it to you. (and he'd know exactly how to teach you since he went through it when he was you)

'Discover' the cure for cancer. Once you've proven to your satisfaction that it works, you go back in time and teach it to yourself.
Replace 'cure for cancer' for desired scientific advance.

flumphy
2011-11-08, 12:46 PM
Not sure how you guys look at your time travel, but my favourite power would be time travel. Of the self-consistent kind (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novikov_self-consistency_principle).

All sorts of crazy things you can do with that.

Especially since you don't even have to learn about the power normally. You could very well learn it by your future self travelling back in time and teaching it to you. (and he'd know exactly how to teach you since he went through it when he was you)

'Discover' the cure for cancer. Once you've proven to your satisfaction that it works, you go back in time and teach it to yourself.
Replace 'cure for cancer' for desired scientific advance.

Just stay far, far away from your grandparents of the opposite sex.

Sadly, time travel and a lot of other powers that would be good choices in real life are hard to pull off in RPGs. Anything that's more powerful than forcing you to retcon a round is at best annoying and at worst game-breaking.

The_Ditto
2011-11-08, 01:22 PM
The ability to resist posting to threads like this.


...


*DAMMIT*
:annoyed:

TheCountAlucard
2011-11-08, 01:58 PM
Actually, I don't care so much for some of the stupidly-powerful options presented.

My two favorite powers are already in a game.

Auspex, and Obfuscate, from Vampire: the Requiem. :smallcool:

One Tin Soldier
2011-11-08, 02:15 PM
I'll just say that even a little bit of telekinesis is an incredible power. In games, lots of power have a high entry either up front ("No, you can't teleport until you get to this power level") or on a de facto basis ("Yes you can manipulate the weather, but you can't do cool with it until you get to this power level").

Telekinesis? Most tabletop games hand it out early and cheap, but with the second kind of limitations I mentioned above. The thing is, those limitations don't matter. Being able to move 5 tons of matter or do it from a mile away or whatever cool stuff they don't let you do are all immaterial next to the fact that you can move stuff with your mind.

If you can move a pound of stuff around, you can pick up the shiny dangerous stuff without touching it, pull the pins out of your enemies grenades, trigger traps, grab the keys on the prison wall ten feet away, pull levers and press buttons, and maybe even throw objects or open locks if the system allows. That's just scratching the possibilities of what you can do with the wimpiest kind of telekinesis.

Exactly. Telekinesis is just plain useful. Not just for adventuring situations, either. How many times have you dropped something down a narrow crack, or had to get into an awkward position to fix something on a car? With telekinesis, those things become trivial. I know I've often wished I had telekinesis.

And then, with the sensory feedback, you get another extremely useful superpower. After all, telekinesis is not usually limited by physical obstructions, so the sensory feedback wouldn't be, either. Boom. X-ray vision/eyes in the back of your head.

Dr.Epic
2011-11-08, 02:52 PM
What about the most common superpower of them all?

No, not this. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MostCommonSuperpower)

I mean flight. Seems like half of all superpowered individuals have somehow acquired flight to their list of powers.

QuidEst
2011-11-08, 06:33 PM
Exactly. Telekinesis is just plain useful. Not just for adventuring situations, either. How many times have you dropped something down a narrow crack, or had to get into an awkward position to fix something on a car? With telekinesis, those things become trivial. I know I've often wished I had telekinesis.

And then, with the sensory feedback, you get another extremely useful superpower. After all, telekinesis is not usually limited by physical obstructions, so the sensory feedback wouldn't be, either. Boom. X-ray vision/eyes in the back of your head.

Almost any power can be run with to ridiculous extents, but it's all selective. If you want to apply everything, Newton (as pointed out by Terry Pratchett) says that while you could lift a boulder with your mind, you'd shove your brain down your spinal column as you did. XP

Personally, I would most enjoy being able to enter and exit fiction at will. It would never get old, after all. Ideally, it'd be nice to do with shapeshifting just to provide more options.

For stories and games, I like to come up with reasonably original stuff rather than use the comic book stuff. For instance, exhaling silence. Not just muting stuff, but preventing it from doing things that make noise. Puts out fires, overheats speakers… makes it awfully hard to catch your breath. (That's assuming one plays nice and leaves the heart alone.)

Just for some interesting thoughts, there's controlling your personal gravity (it's not flying- it's quite literally falling with style), being able to create geometric constructs (e.g. a true plane segment- bisect whatever you want), control of glass (or plastic, or pick some common material), and control of fungi (plants get all the attention). My favorite joke power that I've seen is the complementary chameleon- you change colors to the inverse of whatever you're standing in front of.

jseah
2011-11-08, 07:37 PM
Just stay far, far away from your grandparents of the opposite sex.

Sadly, time travel and a lot of other powers that would be good choices in real life are hard to pull off in RPGs. Anything that's more powerful than forcing you to retcon a round is at best annoying and at worst game-breaking.
Why should I avoid my grandparents if I go back in time? If I'm going end up as my own grandparent, then it *already* happened in the past and thus it will happen in my future.

Although, if I need reminding, I'm sure an alternate-time self will do it for me.

I say alternate-time because "future" doesn't really make any sense to a 4-dimensional person.
I decide I will need reminding later in my future. So I travel to when I am going to be (thanks to a very detailed log left behind by a far-future self) and do the reminding.

Or myself in my future comes to when I am now and does the reminding. And telling myself that I will soon be him and have to go do the reminding. (the past self reminder case doesn't have that)

EDIT: also geometric constructs is basically space manipulation. Tons of math in that one.

brujon
2011-11-08, 07:50 PM
One of the most powerful powers of all... The power to save game. Do whatever you want, if it doesn't work, go back, with full knowledge. Basically infinite "retries".

jseah
2011-11-08, 08:44 PM
One of the most powerful powers of all... The power to save game. Do whatever you want, if it doesn't work, go back, with full knowledge. Basically infinite "retries".
No, that's just time rewind.

Time travel, actual proper time travel, works far better than time rewind. Because, when you travel, there are now two of you. One of whom knows exactly what is going to happen (which is usually success due to him acting on what he knew was going to work because he watched himself do it when he was you)

Dimonite
2011-11-08, 08:55 PM
People keep on talking about "teleportation". I prefer the more specific ability to create portals. Infinite energy from gravity? Two portals. Remove malign tumors? Portal them out carefully. Fry someone with a solar flare? Create a portal to the sun. All this and space colonies!

QuidEst
2011-11-08, 09:49 PM
EDIT: also geometric constructs is basically space manipulation. Tons of math in that one.

Eh, I would actually disagree. With space manipulation, you aren't going to have something physical you can use as a lever arm or roll frictionlessly along the ground.


People keep on talking about "teleportation". I prefer the more specific ability to create portals. Infinite energy from gravity? Two portals. Remove malign tumors? Portal them out carefully. Fry someone with a solar flare? Create a portal to the sun. All this and space colonies!

I'm skeptical about portalling out tumors. You're going to get more blood loss that way than if you just made an incision (any blood reaching the portal exits the body, and you'd still have to go in and remove the tumor by hand, right? Frying somebody with a solar flare is probably riskier than just intentionally botching a tumor operation… although clearly more satisfying.


No, that's just time rewind.

Well, there are a few very handy differences. With a "save point", if we're to take the video game approach, you go back to your younger age with your new knowledge. You also go back to your last save point if you die, which is (personally) more comforting than having a lot of copies. Sure, there are plenty of things that you can't do that regular time travel can, but it's got its upsides. The usefulness of time travel does depend at least somewhat on what flavor you're using and (for some situations) which "copy" you are.

But hey… I'm the kind of person who thinks idle wishes through carefully. :P

One Tin Soldier
2011-11-09, 12:56 AM
People keep on talking about "teleportation". I prefer the more specific ability to create portals. Infinite energy from gravity? Two portals. Remove malign tumors? Portal them out carefully. Fry someone with a solar flare? Create a portal to the sun. All this and space colonies!

This sounds awfully similar to a conversation my group and I had while playing Mage: the Awakening a while back, concerning the offensive possibilities of the Portal spell. I think we wound up deciding that creating a portal to the sun in such a manner would act kinda exactly like a nuke. (Further discussion of Mage rules inside spoiler.)
Luckily for everyone who doesn't like OP mage suicide bombers, thinking about it later I realized that since everyone has a sympathetic connection with the sun, getting a lock on it to cast the spell would be basically impossible.

At any rate, you're right, portals are really useful. Don't want that guy near you? Portal him to Siberia. Want that other guy dead? Use the infinite falling trick from Portal, wait for him to hit terminal velocity, then take the portal away. *splat*

jseah
2011-11-09, 03:59 AM
Well, there are a few very handy differences. With a "save point", if we're to take the video game approach, you go back to your younger age with your new knowledge. You also go back to your last save point if you die, which is (personally) more comforting than having a lot of copies. Sure, there are plenty of things that you can't do that regular time travel can, but it's got its upsides. The usefulness of time travel does depend at least somewhat on what flavor you're using and (for some situations) which "copy" you are.
Well, apart from the "last save point if you die", it is exactly like time rewind.

In time rewind, you go back to some point in the past, and what really happens is that you get "memories" of a 'what if' scenario. There aren't two of you and you don't actually change anything apart from your past memories.

Basically, exactly the same as save point except that every point is a save point and you get to choose.


True time travel of the self-consistent type is far weirder, because if you go back in time to change something in the past, in some sense, that *already* happened.

This allows you to do functionally anything 'save point' can do. Sure, you can't replicate it, but there isn't anything you'd want to do with 'save point' that 'self-consistent travel' can't.

Traab
2011-11-09, 08:54 AM
Wait. So, we are forgetting all the physics crap, such as the friction igniting him, the G-forces damaging him, the relativistic effects, the way the air he hits will be greatly accelerated and heat up as a result, the sonic boom he is subjecting his body to, and others. Yet, the chemistry stuff, like the process of using body fat for energy, or the processes in aerobic and anaerobic respiration is worth considering after we've done that?

Because the physics questions have been argued about endlessly. I havent personally read any discussion on how he has the energy to cross continents without getting tired. As I said, short bursts of speed, like dodging bullets, or playing whack a mook is fine, its just the sheer distance that brings up the issue in my mind. But if its passed off as he is energized by the speed force or whatever then fine. a wizard did it. :p

QuidEst
2011-11-09, 10:07 AM
Well, apart from the "last save point if you die", it is exactly like time rewind.

In time rewind, you go back to some point in the past, and what really happens is that you get "memories" of a 'what if' scenario. There aren't two of you and you don't actually change anything apart from your past memories.

Basically, exactly the same as save point except that every point is a save point and you get to choose.


True time travel of the self-consistent type is far weirder, because if you go back in time to change something in the past, in some sense, that *already* happened.

This allows you to do functionally anything 'save point' can do. Sure, you can't replicate it, but there isn't anything you'd want to do with 'save point' that 'self-consistent travel' can't.

Well, I can think of a case. Let's say you want to win one of those basketball game events- make three half-court shots in the middle of the game. First thing to do is find out what ticket you need. There's one loop through- and you can take a try to make the shots as well. If you're time traveling, there are now two copies of you. Chances are you fail. So you head back to before the game, explain what happened, and try again. Now you've got three copies of yourself! Self-consistency doesn't help you make the shots, and in addition, you're a little older. You can't send your "young" copy ahead, because he has to go back in time. That's not a lot of aging, but it means you can't really make a habit of that sort of thing. The further back you go, the longer you have to deal with multiple copies of yourself (although you could probably fudge a bit by sending them forward in time), and the more times you do it, the more copies there are. Meanwhile, with a save point, you can just reset repeatedly. As an added bonus, once you make a shot, you set up a new save point, and then you only have to make two. The basketball scenario is a little specific, but there are similar situations that could come up. For things you don't really influence (stock market, lottery, etc.), there's no trouble either way.

The other thing, of course, is paradoxes. Resetting can't cause them, but attempting to make time-travel self-consistent is just about guaranteed to make them. XP Anyways, for anybody who would enjoy time travel as a power (and who wouldn't?), I really recommend watching "Primer". It's an excellently done take on short-term time travel.

Knaight
2011-11-09, 11:01 AM
Because the physics questions have been argued about endlessly. I havent personally read any discussion on how he has the energy to cross continents without getting tired. As I said, short bursts of speed, like dodging bullets, or playing whack a mook is fine, its just the sheer distance that brings up the issue in my mind. But if its passed off as he is energized by the speed force or whatever then fine. a wizard did it. :p

Short version: Chemical processes in the body simply won't do, the guy would realistically burn through his muscles incredibly quickly. So, much like the physics stuff, there really isn't much realism. At best, you can dodge and try to argue either nuclear power or just direct matter - energy conversion. In regards to the second bit, its comparatively easy math once you have the numbers, and the numbers are easy to find. If it wasn't 1 AM here, and I wasn't exhausted, I'd just do it myself.

jseah
2011-11-09, 11:37 AM
Now you've got three copies of yourself! Self-consistency doesn't help you make the shots, and in addition, you're a little older.

The other thing, of course, is paradoxes. Resetting can't cause them, but attempting to make time-travel self-consistent is just about guaranteed to make them.
In self-consistent time travel, paradoxes never occur. The basic idea behind self-consistency in time travel is that no time travel event will occur that leads to a paradox.
This is a fundamental rule, about equivalent to saying that logical contradictions are wrong.

Take the basketball example. What happens there is that your future self pays you a visit and tells you a few pointers before returning to his time.
You then use those points to score the three shots and go back in time to be your future self. Not a second before you return from the past just after issuing the much needed advice.

If you score the shots, you will be going back to say that and say whatever you remember you told yourself.
If you do not score the shots, you will be going back to say it. These are a causal relations that are independent of what happens.
Thus the only self-consistent universe is one where you make the shots and go back to tell yourself what you did to make them. (well, not the *only* universe. All manners of weird things can happen, the only criteria is that they are self-consistent)

The old-age problem is not a problem. You operate outside of time. Your age is only relative to your personal future. If you need to wait, simply skip forward. If you need to rest, find a peaceful time to do it in (borrowing your younger self's bed when he's doing something else is a nice idea)
There simply is no need to live linearly.
EDIT:
If anything, you're going to be younger than most people. Think about the amount of time you spend waiting for a bus or train or airplane. (and time travel doesn't help you walk any faster)

Now, if your future self pops in for a few seconds to tell you when the bus actually arrived, you'll never miss a bus since you can always go back in time to when the bus DID arrive.
And if it'll arrive in 5 minutes, you 'port forward to when the bus arrived and take the bus. Without the wait.

In fact, with regards to traffic, you'll always gain. Simply teleport back to before or after the rush hour and take the bus then. The bus goes faster in those times due to less traffic. After you get to where you're going, you 'port to when you need to be there.

QuidEst
2011-11-09, 12:01 PM
In self-consistent time travel, paradoxes never occur. The basic idea behind self-consistency in time travel is that no time travel event will occur that leads to a paradox.
This is a fundamental rule, about equivalent to saying that logical contradictions are wrong.

Hmm… I don't care for the self-consistency version because it requires substantial "thought" (beyond physical cause and effect) on the part of the universe. Suppose you go back in time. The self you visited is now /required/ to go back in time, right? And cause the same things to happen that you did, correct? Clearly, that prevents you from going back and killing yourself. Or knocking them out and tying them up. But what if something happens based on the color of your shirt? Your other self will now have to be wearing that color shirt, and the universe can't change /that/. Now, I realize that you can look at this from further out and say that going back in time caused yourself to go back in time, but looking at it from your point of view, your free will is curtailed to only taking actions that will cause themselves. What happens if you try to take an action that won't? In certain cases, that should lock down any change whatsoever, and prevent you from having an effect if you travel back in time.

The aging thing isn't so much about your age relative to other people. I'm just saying that you will continue to age. One of the advantages to save points is that you can live forever, and can even just start life over if you feel like. If you only get one save point, though, that removes most of the advantage, since it can only stay fixed or advance.

Personally, I favor either branching timelines or "last revision proceeds" versions for paradox resolution. They're convenient because they center on the time-traveler's point of view and don't really require the universe to know in advance what will happen based on an action.

It's fun to think about, at any rate! We should probably let the board get back on topic. (You're free to make a rebuttal- I don't want to be rude and insist on the last word.)

QuidEst
2011-11-09, 12:02 PM
In self-consistent time travel, paradoxes never occur. The basic idea behind self-consistency in time travel is that no time travel event will occur that leads to a paradox.
This is a fundamental rule, about equivalent to saying that logical contradictions are wrong.

Hmm… I don't care for the self-consistency version because it requires substantial "thought" (beyond physical cause and effect) on the part of the universe. Suppose you go back in time. The self you visited is now /required/ to go back in time, right? And cause the same things to happen that you did, correct? Clearly, that prevents you from going back and killing yourself. Or knocking them out and tying them up. But what if something happens based on the color of your shirt? Your other self will now have to be wearing that color shirt, and the universe can't change /that/. Now, I realize that you can look at this from further out and say that going back in time caused yourself to go back in time, but looking at it from your point of view, your free will is curtailed to only taking actions that will cause themselves. What happens if you try to take an action that won't? In certain cases, that should lock down any change whatsoever, and prevent you from having an effect if you travel back in time.

The old age thing is not so much that you age by repeating stuff- more that whatever you do, you age. With resetting, you can live as long as you want, and are free to just start life over whenever you want.

Personally, I favor either branching timelines or "last revision proceeds" versions for paradox resolution. They're convenient because they center on the time-traveler's point of view and don't really require the universe to know in advance what will happen based on an action.

It's fun to think about, at any rate! We should probably let the board get back on topic. (You're free to make a rebuttal- I don't want to be rude and insist on the last word.)

jseah
2011-11-09, 12:43 PM
(You're free to make a rebuttal- I don't want to be rude and insist on the last word.)
I'll take you up on that. =P


They're convenient because they center on the time-traveler's point of view and don't really require the universe to know in advance what will happen based on an action
You know what in advance what will happen based on an action. And that it will lead you to time travelling.
That's time travelling information right there.

If you can know something, the universe can certainly know about it too.

In any scheme of time travel, the future affects the past. Causality running backwards has this kind of effect.


but looking at it from your point of view, your free will is curtailed to only taking actions that will cause themselves
You mean actions in the past must contribute to their own causes. They certainly don't have to be the sole cause.

And no, you still have apparent free will. At no point will your actions be constrained, except that your decisions are also factored into the time loop.

Events, partially contributed to by your future self travelling back, will result in your decision chain to go back and do whatever it is your future self had already done in your past.

At no point are you "prevented" from doing anything. If you wish to drink a glass of water, you may. But you arriving from the future must result in a self-consistent loop that allows them to travel in the first place. Otherwise that arrival will never happen.

EG.
Assuming you're a 13 year old kid. The following may not occur: (at least not feasibly)
Your two-hours future self arrives and tells you that 6 gunmen are about to take hostages in your school. He then returns to his time. You call the police and the gunmen are arrested, preventing the hostage taking.

Since you are a 13 year old kid, assuming you are not involved in the questioning process, there is no way you could have learnt that those gunmen were going to take hostages.
This is inconsistent and thus you will never get your future self arriving like that.

But now, if your two-week future self arrives and tells you that he read about a mystery tip-off foiling a hostage plot at your school in the newspaper. Then you do call the police and have them arrested.
This IS consistent and thus may happen.

Terazul
2011-11-09, 12:47 PM
Top of the list is Telekinesis (Tactile, preferably (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superboy_(Kon-El)#Tactile_telekinesis)). Powerful, and versatile. Like really, 90% of classic superpowers can be replicated/simply are variations on Telekinesis. Flight? Yup. Super Strength/Durability? Heck yes. Super Speed? You know it. Pyro/Cryo/Electrokinesis? They have it in the name. Incidentally one of my favorite comics, Lucifer and Biscuit Hammer, revolved around the protagonists all recieving a ring of telekinesis, and each of them simply finding their own personal ways of manifesting it; From a wide field that slows down everyone else that enters it, to just spinning it into a spear of pure force. So many shenanigans to be had.

Similarly Kinetic Energy Manipulation a la a combination of Sebastian Shaw (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastian_Shaw_(comics)#Powers_and_abilities) and Speedball (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedball_(comics)#As_Speedball) would be cool. I have an idea for a M&M superhero that basically just absorbs blows up to a limit, then releases the accumulated "Impact" in big blasts/punches to hit stuff/fly himself around. One of those "if you get get good enough with it you're practically unstoppable" powers. Resistant to most physical stuff, but mental things could still get to you, and trying to absorb too much at once can short you out (as frequently happens to Shaw, and completely shorted his powers in Speedball's case).

Finally my most subdued favorite is a very specialized form of Telepathy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prodigy_(David_Alleyne)#Powers_and_abilities) used by Prodigy of the New X-men. Basically he just passively absorbed knowledge from those around him, for example while playing basketball with his friends, after a few minutes he had the collective skill of everyone involved. It would always fade after he was no longer in range of them, though there a side-story where he had the mental blocks removed, and he effectively got a college degree in one day by just walking around hanging out with Beast/Forge/All those other smart guys, became a master of martial arts by simply sitting in on Wolverine & co's training sessions, and then went on to cure cancer. I think it's an incredibly subtle but immensely powerful ability. How cool would it be to just go for a walk downtown, and by the time you get home you know 10 new languages, have the skills of a concert pianist, and know the colonel's secret recipe?

QuidEst
2011-11-09, 01:50 PM
I like limiting telekinesis a bit. I don't think people have the mental facilities required to slowly move a few million electrons through mechanical force, to move fire about while keeping it at a high temperature, or to chill something. Heat stuff up, maybe- sort of like rubbing your hands together quickly. But that's just a personal view. :P

Hmm… another limit on your Kinetic Energy Manipulator might be trouble dealing with "negative" energy- stuff like extreme cold. If I had a villain dealing with that, they'd probably get their hands on some liquid nitrogen. Toxic gas (and maybe nasty acids, depending on how they handle chemical energy) would also be handy. There are a few mundane methods that wouldn't require powers. But definitely, it's great for most of the brute-force encounters!

I assume the passive knowledge thing has some decent filtration included, just to prevent a headache of useless trivia. But most mental powers are like that.

Tvtyrant
2011-11-09, 03:05 PM
What about for the tactile telekinesis having them make a "body" around themselves? It would act just like a normal body, but the size and shape would be up to the user. So rather than be a human with super strength, they might be an invisible spider with super-spider strength and the human is just inside.

Terazul
2011-11-09, 04:17 PM
I like limiting telekinesis a bit. I don't think people have the mental facilities required to slowly move a few million electrons through mechanical force, to move fire about while keeping it at a high temperature, or to chill something. Heat stuff up, maybe- sort of like rubbing your hands together quickly. But that's just a personal view. :P


That's the thing about TK and other powers that deal with primal forces; It's basically just the limitations of the person using them. Like one time Magneto made a wormhole, and everyone as confused as to why. Beast pointed out it's more interesting why he didn't start doing that sort of thing sooner. But yeah, TK in comics usually comes in 3 varieties:

The Psylocke: All the power to crush mountains, but they can't pick up a dime with it. All power, no finesse. SMASH.

The Specialist: Mostly finesse, still powerful but nowhere near the level of the previous. Often the types who have a very specialized form of TK, whether it be in the form of force fields, flight disks, or concussive blasts. Usually very powerful in their field, but can't do other stuff.

The Jack: This is the one I think is the most interesting to see portrayed, when someone gets their hands on TK and starts trying out all the applications; only to realize they need alot of practice. So they can do alot of the specialist type things, but not nearly as well as them (compare say, Susan Storm's force fields to Hellion's), but they make up for it in versatility. Sure, I can't shoot you with heat beams now, but gimme time and I'll figure something out eventually.

And then of course there's zany comic villains who get to do all three. But they're silly.

The cold/heat thing for the Kinetic stuff is something that is actually listed in the power descriptors as something that happened to beat them :smalltongue: In addition to having their own limits: Shaw was knocked unconscious by the sheer volume of power in a lightning bolt, and another time when he fell a great distance while his mass was increased; And speedball completely shorted his powers when he was blown several states away by a huge blast of TNT.

I think the passive thing also gave him perfect knowledge recollection while it was active; at one point the FBI was assaulting the campus, and he was picking up on all the different approaches the squads were trained in, but was able to easily pinpoint which strategies they were most likely employing at the time. I guess your brain becomes more like a bookshelf.

QuidEst
2011-11-09, 06:21 PM
That's the thing about TK and other powers that deal with primal forces; It's basically just the limitations of the person using them. Like one time Magneto made a wormhole, and everyone as confused as to why. Beast pointed out it's more interesting why he didn't start doing that sort of thing sooner.

That's not limitations of the character- that's the comic book authors pulling whatever they darn well feel like. XP I'm all for creative applications, but ones that rely on recently published theoretical physics papers fall somewhere between hand waving (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HandWave) and techno babble (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TechnoBabble).

The human brain is capable of keeping track of up to about eight objects at a time- less if they're moving fast. Expecting a telepathic person to be able to do more than that level of precision seems like overkill. There are more than enough things that can be done with directly applied force. :D

Terazul
2011-11-09, 06:42 PM
I'm pretty sure the expectations of human norms are kinda thrown out the window when we start talking about people with supernatural abilities :smallconfused:

Wyntonian
2011-11-09, 08:27 PM
I'm pretty sure the expectations of human norms are kinda thrown out the window when we start talking about people with supernatural abilities :smallconfused:

Preach it.

Also, another fun power would be the ability to just make stuff appear. Hungry? *Snap* Sammich. Getting attacked by ninjas? *Snap* Katana. (even they're "underpowered in D20":smalltongue:) Need to get somewhere fast? *Snap* fighter jet. Don't know how to fly a fighter jet? *Snap* Instruction manual.

QuidEst
2011-11-09, 10:41 PM
I'm pretty sure the expectations of human norms are kinda thrown out the window when we start talking about people with supernatural abilities :smallconfused:

Sure! I'm a fogey, though. XP Creativity shouldn't be a character's main limitation- creativity should be how they deal with their limitations. So I prefer keeping powers reined in a little. But I'll give it a rest. :smallwink:

Toofey
2011-11-10, 02:10 AM
If no one has said it Phasing (ala kitty pride) is a good one.

I like dimension doors that are actually doors (so you can do cool portaly things in game like redirect breath weapons, or flying companions.)

jseah
2011-11-10, 02:56 AM
I like dimension doors that are actually doors (so you can do cool portaly things in game like redirect breath weapons, or flying companions.)
Don't go there. You break the universe badly if you do.

Traab
2011-11-10, 04:05 PM
Mind control. If you do it right you can take over a small town pretty easily. First step? Mind control all the police forces so they are loyal to you. Second step? Start working on mind controlling everyone else to be the same. If someone comes in from out of town and notices something wrong? They will likely go to the cops who are under orders to hold them till you can mind control these visitors and make them leave, having noticed nothing unusual. It is a bit harder to pull off in this day of computers and security cameras, but its still doable if you go about it the smart way.

gkathellar
2011-11-10, 04:42 PM
Disembodiment. I wouldn't mind existing as a being of pure mind, particularly if I could return to my body at any time but could also keep on living without it.

That gives you practical, transcendent immortality + you get to live out your normal biological lifespan and enjoy all it has to offer.

Esprit15
2011-11-10, 09:25 PM
Kelekinesis, because flinging **** with my mind is awesome.

Regeneration, because not dying and being able to recover quickly is very useful.

Transformation, because sometimes being human can get boring.

Tvtyrant
2011-11-10, 09:35 PM
Kelekinesis, because flinging **** with my mind is awesome.

Regeneration, because not dying and being able to recover quickly is very useful.

Transformation, because sometimes being human can get boring.

What type of transformation? Druid/beast boy, anything, just humans?