[Pathfinder] Optimizing Stealth

[Angry Bob]

There appears to be a campaign run by a AD&D enthusiast in my future. The last time we played in a game by him, the monsters trashed us and we spent most of the second half of the campaign ability damaged/drained into mostly uselessness with no cheap way to cure it. He eventually called the campaign when he got sick of one of the other players' DMM BS. Which was part of his impetus for switching to PF.

This time around, I'd prefer to avoid being spotted by, never mind actually encountering what he has in store for us. Traps, Monsters, Haunts, whatever.

He's limiting the party to one arcane caster and one divine caster at a time, we're starting at level one, and probably not going over level nine.

Basically, what are my go-to options for appropriately high stealth and perception checks in PF? I'd guess ninja or rogue, but I don't know enough about PF optimization to say I'd be right, and I don't want to count on getting to play the wizard.

Please no invective against the DM. Unlike some I've had, he's at least fair. I disagree with some specific choices he made with his campaign(mostly, why not just play AD&D instead of trying to capture the feel of it in PF), but not enough to not play with him.

EDIT: Sources allowed are pretty basic: Pathfinder only(no 3.5), and of that, only Paizo material.

EDIT 2: Monstrous races probably disallowed(goblins, orcs, probably native outsiders)

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

well, sadly... in 3.x stealth is broken for various reasons that im not caring to go into right now. Basically, as long as your DM doesnt work TOO hard to find you, you should be okay.

easiest method would be yeah, rogue/ninja, if going rogue I would recommend the Burglar and/or Chameleon archetypes. Ninja has access to various forms of mild invisibility however, inherent in the class.

If I were to do this... I would go rogue (any archetype that boosts stealth, burglar or chameleon), and dip a level of wizard for 100% chance of using wands and scrolls. Invest in wands/scrolls of Vanish, Invisibility, and Improved Invisibility.

Then, go for a level or two of shadow dancer for Hide in Plain Sight and Darkvision. (at level 2)

throw in some Spring Attack or Shot on the Run goodness with the Fast Stealth Rogue Talent and the Stealthy Sniper Advanced Talent, you should be set. basically, use the sniping rules (shoot/attack, take -20 to hide while moving after shooting/attacking, only -10 with Stealthy Sniper Talent). try to be hiding AND invisible whenever possible to up your hide check massively.

Or throw in the Scout archetype and do the same thing.

[Angry Bob]

Stuff

This is all good, but I'd rather avoid a single level of wizard, because the DM might see that as occupying the "arcane caster" slot. Never mind the high probability of not being able to buy magic items.

[Fax Celestis]

Take a level of psychic warrior, and nab the chameleon power for a handy +10 bonus to Stealth.

[Angry Bob]

Take a level of psychic warrior, and nab the chameleon power for a handy +10 bonus to Stealth.

I should have said Paizo material only, editing OP.

[The Gilded Duke]

You want to play a goblin. +4 Size bonus to Stealth, +4 Racial bonus to stealth, +4 Dexterity Bonus. Pick up the Color Thief trait (goblins of Golorion) for +2 trait bonus to stealth. Stealth is always a class skill for you.

Although if it is largely an outdoor game I prefer buffing perception instead. Everyone takes a -1 to perception checks for every 10 feet of distance, if you can out percieve your enemies, you effectively out stealth them. Works the best against alternate senses which usually defeat stealth but have limited range.

Half-Elf gets +2 perception, low-light vision, a free skill focus that can be put towards perception and a +2 stat bonus. Then pick a wisdom focused class like cleric, inquisitor, druid, Zen Archer Monk or Inquisitor, and if necessary a trait to give you perception as a class skill.

[Angry Bob]

You want to play a goblin. +4 Size bonus to Stealth, +4 Racial bonus to stealth, +4 Dexterity Bonus. Pick up the Color Thief trait (goblins of Golorion) for +2 trait bonus to stealth. Stealth is always a class skill for you.

Although if it is largely an outdoor game I prefer buffing perception instead. Everyone takes a -1 to perception checks for every 10 feet of distance, if you can out percieve your enemies, you effectively out stealth them. Works the best against alternate senses which usually defeat stealth but have limited range.

Half-Elf gets +2 perception, low-light vision, a free skill focus that can be put towards perception and a +2 stat bonus. Then pick a wisdom focused class like cleric, inquisitor, druid, Zen Archer Monk or Inquisitor, and if necessary a trait to give you perception as a class skill.

Sorry, sorry, I'll edit the OP again. I have the distinct feeling that the DM's going to disallow goblins as a player race.

[Drothmal]

I think ninja is probably your best option. You get access to vanish without occupying the arcane caster slot and you get enough skill points to maximize disable device, perception, acrobatics and whatever you might need

If you are fully bent on stealth, maybe halfling would be good for a ninja (or a gnome) since you get a bonus from being small

[Infernalbargain]

It depends on whether you want to kill people from stealth or just stealth around. If the latter, then goblin's the way to go with the pure numbers boost to stealth. If the former, then halfling is the way to go. Yes the halfling loses 5 on stealth compared to the goblin, but it reduces the sniping penalty by 10 which stacks with the rogue / ninja ability to reduce the penalty by 10. Something's just amusing about the ability to snipe without penalty.

[Drothmal]

It depends on whether you want to kill people from stealth or just stealth around. If the latter, then goblin's the way to go with the pure numbers boost to stealth. If the former, then halfling is the way to go. Yes the halfling loses 5 on stealth compared to the goblin, but it reduces the sniping penalty by 10 which stacks with the rogue / ninja ability to reduce the penalty by 10. Something's just amusing about the ability to snipe without penalty.

OP updated the first post to mention that monstrous races would probably be disallowed.

Hence, halfling ninja is a solid option. Take skill focus (stealth)

Starting with a 16 dex (18 after racial adjustment), at lvl 1, you can get

4 (dex) + 4 (rank + bonus) + 4 (small) + 3 (skill focus) = +15 bonus

[Angry Bob]

OP updated the first post to mention that monstrous races would probably be disallowed.

Hence, halfling ninja is a solid option. Take skill focus (stealth)

Starting with a 16 dex (18 after racial adjustment), at lvl 1, you can get

4 (dex) + 4 (rank + bonus) + 4 (small) + 3 (skill focus) = +15 bonus

This is extremely helpful.

Do you think going into shadowdancer would be worthwhile as well, considering the game will probably stop at 9th/10th level?

[Drothmal]

I have no personal experience with shadowdancer, so I'm afraidn I cannot give any advice on that front.

I'd say though that by the time you can get into the prestige, you'll probably have a feeling on the DM's view on stealth and can make a better decision if you need the extra boost from hide in plain sight

[Bhaakon]

Do you think going into shadowdancer would be worthwhile as well, considering the game will probably stop at 9th/10th level?

I wouldn't. Hide in plain sight isn't worth three feats and the loss of sneak attack progression, particularly if you're going ninja and have access to vanishing trick.