[PF] RPG newbie needs advice about character build

[Dragon Baroness]

Hi all,

I'm playing Pathfinder now for about 3 months in my boyfriends RPG group. It is my first roleplaying game and I'm pretty clueless about how to improve my character.
I play a human Arcane Duelist, level 3. My boyfriend told me, that the AD is a pretty strong fighter with bardic background. Nevertheless I'm more than lost in our GM's fighting-heavy camapign. Everybody in the group told me to stick with the AD, but I want to multiclass into a more able fighter, without sacrificing to many spells...

Please, help me to improve my character (I don't want to lose her) - and please forgive my english, as it is not my native language.

Best regards
Dragon Baroness

[The Boz]

What are your base stats?
In Pathfinder, sticking to your class is a good advice, even if your class is a Bard.
For your weapon, pick a Longspear. It's a simple reach weapon, and will enable you to threaten spellcasters in a large radius. This only becomes relevant after level 5.

[Dragon Baroness]

Stats:
ST: 16
DX: 12
KO: 11
IN: 13
WI: 10
CH: 16

FEATs:
Improved Trip, Combat Expertise, Power Attack

Why after level 5?

[Krazzman]

Because of their boost of power.

But I would recommend something different.

With Arcane Duelist you are meaning the Archetype, right?
With 6 Levels in that you could go Dragon Disciple for more strength. (I personally like the classfeatures of DD but they are a bit niche.)
Either way I dislike Maneuver but like to push my partymembers. I most likely run around with either Nodachi/Falchion/Scimitar and the Combat Expertise-Butterfly Sting combination to grant the crits I would do to my friends.

For further advice it would be reaaaally handy if you a) post the other characters, b) what/how they are fighting and c) if they are interested in "teamwork feats".

Hope this helps.

[The Boz]

Stats:
ST: 16
DX: 12
KO: 11
IN: 13
WI: 10
CH: 16

FEATs:
Improved Trip, Combat Expertise, Power Attack

Why after level 5?

You should grab it before, since you have a nice Str. A two-handed reach weapon with a nice Str and Power Attack will do well for you, since you're probably not the tankiest of chars with an 11 Con. However, at level 5 you get to be bonded to a specific weapon, and you can't change that choice. After that, at level 6, you make spellcasters within your reach tremble in fear.
Don't forget that you have bonus abilities from your class. Namely, Arcane Strike (very useful) and Combat Casting (also useful). Rallying Cry is situational, but I guess it can be great when it matters.
When you level up to 4, grab Allegro. Start singing whatever you want in every battle (Inspire Courage is very nice), and benefit from two-handed power attack reach haste arcane strike.
If you can, grab Summon Monster I for your bodyguard, flanking and trapspringing. Vanish is good when you need to... vanish. Hold Person is good for level 2.

[Dragon Baroness]

The others a playing a fighter, a paladin, a monk, a druid and a sorcerer. The characters are all more or less individuals and dont cooperate effectively in combat. The fighters prefer 2-hand swords and the rest prefers archery

[OrzhvoPatriarch]

The others a playing a fighter, a paladin, a monk, a druid and a sorcerer. The characters are all more or less individuals and dont cooperate effectively in combat. The fighters prefer 2-hand swords and the rest prefers archery

Well that would be your main problem right there. A good party covers the weaknesses of its individual members and fights as a group.

[Larpus]

Well that would be your main problem right there. A good party covers the weaknesses of its individual members and fights as a group.
Indeed, hard to believe you're having bodyguard issues with a Fighter and a Paladin around.

Either way, never forget that Bards get proficiency in whips, which are indeed very poor weapons, but they truly shine in disarming and/or tripping foes from 15ft away (and as such not provoking AoO, even without the feats) and with that Str and couple buffs you shouldn't have much trouble to disarm/trip things.

Then when the time to deliver the pain comes, simply drop the whip as a free action and 2-hand your weapon as chances are your enemies won't know what to do with the whip and, even if they do, they provoke an AoO if they try to pick it up.

And as said before, use Arcane Strike, always.

[Krazzman]

So ok, Archery is nice. If you want to enlighten them a bit take the butterfly sting feat. Have more ways of contributing to the fight.
Whip: Trip/Disarm
Falchion/Nodachi (both profiency needed): Melee weapon with a crit range of 17-20.

Now comes the nasty part. With reaching level 5 you should be able to grad a Keen weapon. Else spend the feat on lvl 9 to double the crit range. Now, everytime you confirm a crit against a mob that everybody is hitting, declare your crit to the next person with a crit bonus of x3 or higher.

We tested this on one occasion with a TWF Keen Kurki rogue build. We hacked a demon to dust with 1 Rogue and a fighter. (Me double kurki the other a scythe.) I dealing 1d4+2 + 4d6 per attack, he dealing somewhat 2d4+20 I think. And on a Crit 10d4+80+3d12... makes demon go ouchie...

But as said your party should ever try to contribute in a way that you all benefit from the strenght of your classes/roles while "ignoring" the weaknesses.

But somehow I am the only one in my group thinking this too. Except for Flanking I'm the only one that takes such feats to grant other people these bonuses. Buffing is sometimes there but mostly from me again. (Playing a Magus in a Group with a Barbarian, Ranger, Rogue and upcoming oracle and I would buff the barbarian with Enlarge Person instead of taking another shocking grasp/grease/color spray.

Hope this helps.

[Dragon Baroness]

Thank you so much for the enlightment :) (Dankeschön Krazzmann :smallbiggrin:)
Unfortunately my DM won't allow me the butterfly sting.
One thing still troubles me: If I go for a reach weapon, how can I avoid , that my opponents get to close if we fight outnumbered (as we always do...) ? Go for unarmed combat?

[Krazzman]

Ask him to allow the feat from (3.5) PHB2? Short haft or something like that.

You still need profecy, bab+3 and weapon focus with that weapon...another point to consider would be the feat Lunge (-2 AC getting reach).

Another point, have you considered in a Prestige class yet? Because if you have good strength and a two handed weapon, Dragon Disciple might be cool.

You get the bloodline from a sorcerer, (would lose 3 caster levels if you take it completely), get some pretty cool other bonuses like claws, breath weapon, d12 HD (it certainly gets the monk feeling), but it gives Attribute boosts to strentgh and so on. It is recommended to stop advancing right before you get your wings (cause 2 lost caster levels are ok but 3 are a bit too hard for wings but feel as you like.)

But again be sure to have more than one strategy for meleeing.

Hope this helps.

[Dragon Baroness]

Dragon Disciple is really a cool class, but our sorcerer already got this prestige class (being the newest group member I`m not as high level as the rest of the group)
Two Dragons in one party is a bit boring in my opinion (although I love dragons :) )

Lunge looks fun - it is not limited on weapons without reach? So I could possibly cover 15' ?

[Dyllan]

(being the newest group member I`m not as high level as the rest of the group)

And you're using Pathfinder's experience system?

Pathfinder as a flat experience progression - and is designed so the entire party has the same experience total at all times. If you're behind in experience, there is no way to ever catch up.

[Krazzman]

If this hasn't been errataed I think this funktions just as you read it. Add +5 feet reach for -2 to AC.

Duelist could be a nice fluff thing but in term of power stay Arcane Duelist. But why does your DM restrict you from taking Butterfly Sting?
for not being dragged into close quarter fighting with a polearm take advantage of a meatshield in front of you :D

And if you fear that you won't contribute enough to combat mind if I suggest you to try Magus next? It is a lovely gish class like the bard/Arcane Duelist but has a pretty good spell list and later a way to get his used spellslots back.

Hope this helps.

[Dragon Baroness]

Many thanks again. I will try all of your suggestions (forcing everybody to work together) and see if my character can now contribute more to survive our battles.

@ Dyllan:
I think my GM houseruled this - as I always get more XP than my boyfriend :tongue:

[Krazzman]

Bribe him with food and beverages for a level up :D

[Chained Birds]

Thank you so much for the enlightment :) (Dankeschön Krazzmann :smallbiggrin:)
Unfortunately my DM won't allow me the butterfly sting.
One thing still troubles me: If I go for a reach weapon, how can I avoid , that my opponents get to close if we fight outnumbered (as we always do...) ? Go for unarmed combat?

Concerning the "my opponents get too close" problem: Wearing a spiked gauntlet or regular gauntlet. This means you can now punch people who get too close without suffering an Attack of Opportunity for using an unarmed strike. And the damage would be 1d4+str lethal instead of an unarmed 1d3+str non-lethal.

If you can get a +1 spell-storing spiked gauntlet and have the Force Punch spell in there, you can punch a noob and send him flying 15ft+ away. :smallwink:

[Another_Poet]

The others a playing a fighter, a paladin, a monk, a druid and a sorcerer.

You should be able to out-perform the fighter and monk in combat.


One thing still troubles me: If I go for a reach weapon, how can I avoid , that my opponents get to close if we fight outnumbered (as we always do...) ? Go for unarmed combat?

Not really a big deal. Just 5' step back when needed. (It's unlikely enemies will be in all 8 squares surrounding you).

If you want, spend your Level 5 feat on Spiked Chain proficiency and designate that as your special weapon. 10' inclusive reach plus a bonus to your trip attempts. (If it is still in PF, I forget if they left it in.)


(being the newest group member I`m not as high level as the rest of the group)

This is why you are not holding your own in combat. It has nothing to do with your class choice. You chose a good class. I agree with your teammates: don't cross-class, it'll only put you further behind on spell progression and it won't help you catch up with higher-level teammates.

[Dyllan]

If you want, spend your Level 5 feat on Spiked Chain proficiency and designate that as your special weapon. 10' inclusive reach plus a bonus to your trip attempts. (If it is still in PF, I forget if they left it in.)

Spiked Chain is no longer a reach weapon in Pathfinder.

[Bovine Colonel]

Spiked Chain is no longer a reach weapon in Pathfinder.

But Meteor Hammer has all the goodies of Spiked Chain and it's a martial weapon.

[Paul H]

Hi

I saw your low Con. If you want to 'power-up', you could still take a level of Synthesist.

It's a Cha based Summoner archetype.

You summon an 'eidolon' around you, that lasts as long as you are awake and it still has HP. It's also a spellcaster, with spells like Mage Armour, Protection vs xxx, Shield, etc.

Bipedal Eidolon grants:
Str 16 Dex 12 Con 13. +2 Nat AC, BAB+1, Darkvision. Bonus HP
You can 'buy' extra abilities. Suggest you take +2 to any stat, plus extra +2 Nat AC.

+2 Str grants extra hit/dam, especially with 2H Weaapon.
+2 Dex grants better AC, and allows Dodge feat tree. Etc
+2 Con grants bonus XP (both you & eidolon)

+1 BAB, Darkvision, temp HP, extra +4 Nat AC are useful in themselves.

Only trouble is that the stat bonus is racial, as are the Drag Disciple's. Rest is unaffected.

Just a thought
Paul H