Sorcadin options

[prufock]

I've been looking at the basic Sorcadin build, as follows:

Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5

I've seen this followed up with Sacred Exorcist for the last 8 levels (or a mix of Sacred Exorcist and Runesmith for dwarves, but I'd like to stay race-neutral for now).

Sacred Exorcist isn't bad - 3/4 BAB and full spellcasting, plus some goodies - but some of the abilities seem lackluster or thematically odd. Paladins already have Detect Evil at will, Exorcism and Resist Possession seem like they would be uncommon, Dispel Evil is once to thrice per week, and Consecrate is only really good if you're dealing with a lot of undead (but great if you are). Chosen Foe is okay, but sort of a poor man's Favored Enemy. Turn Undead and Holy Aura seem like the "money" abilities, but you get Turn Undead at first level, and don't get Holy Aura until 8th.

Don't get me wrong, all of this is still better than taking more levels in Sorcerer, and maybe I'm being greedy, but I'm basically wondering what would be some other good options besides Sacred Exorcist to fill out the last 8 levels of a Sorcadin build.

[Urpriest]

Don't forget Turn Undead! Quite a few divine and devotion feats can be nice for a gish.

There isn't all that much else out there that's that easy to qualify for with 3/4 BAB. Ruathar can get you a small chunk of the way.

[JaronK]

A dip of Spellsword is worth it, as it's very easy to qualify for and is at least worth the save bumps. Nothing great there, but it's something, and it does give full BAB.

JaronK

[Doc Roc]

Knight of the Raven is a solid option...You've already lost too much CL though.

There are some good options, I guess, but I'm blanking on them.

[Fax Celestis]

Knight Phantom (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050706a&page=4), maybe? Bonus points if you can get your DM to let you treat a phantom steed as your special mount.

[Arcane_Snowman]

Sacred Exorcist offers full casting, which at this point is needed to get 9th level spells, and 3/4 Base Attack Bonus, which is fairly hard to come by for the Sorcadin. If the loss of 9th level spells don't bother you that much, there's plenty of other options, as mentioned above.

[Urpriest]

With a giant pile of wasted feats you can dip Dragonslayer. Full BAB, full casting at first.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The main goal is to get 6/8 BAB and 8/8 spellcasting in those last eight levels, so the character has a +16 BAB and 9th level spells at 20th level. That leaves you extremely short on options, but luckily Sacred Exorcist fits extremely well with the theme of the build. Even if it didn't give any class features at all, its BAB and spellcasting advancement alone would be enough to take it. Consider the following:

If you don't like the Detect Evil overlap, take the Harmonious Knight (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a) substitution level to get Inspire Courage instead. It's not even a big deal anyway, why complain?

You need Dismissal as a spell known, but once you hit Sacred Exorcist 4 and get its Dispel Evil spell-like ability, that will fulfill its own spellcasting prerequisite and you can pick a different spell in place of Dismissal.

Turn Undead can power Divine Might (CW), Naenhoon: Persistent (Illumian, RoD), Travel Devotion (CC), and plenty of other abilities. This is a huge benefit of using Sacred Exorcist, especially considering it's already a Cha-focused build.

If you don't like its other class features, then just don't use them; don't even bother writing them down. The BAB and spellcasting alone is enough reason to finish with Sacred Exorcist 8, show it some respect!

[Randomguy]

There's eldritch knight if you want to lose a caster level in exchange for more full BAB.

If you want to specialise in changing shape, there's master transmogrifier, but you lose caster levels and BAB.

You can take more levels of spellsword to be able to channel spells.

A 1 level dip in a class that gives martial maneuvers qualifies you for jade pheonix mage, which is full BAB and only loses 2 caster levels. It gets you a class feature that's basically arcane strike but instead of +1 to hit per spell level sacrificed it's a fixed +4 bonus and instead of 1d4 extra damage per spell level sacrificed it's an extra 1d10 damage. You get the ability to empower a spell for free once per encounter the round after you hit someone with a martial maneuver. Unfortunately, you're one level off of being able to quicken a maneuver once per encounter after hitting someone with a martial maneuver, but if you somehow manage to meet the requirements via feats you can make it.

[Hirax]

If you're willing to take arcane disciple to get the war domain, that solves the BAB issue by giving you divine power, if you're willing to persist it. At which point the BAB of your remaining 8 levels doesn't matter. Alternatively you could get the metamagic specialist variant (PHB2) and quicken it at the start of combat. Not the best option, but it's there.

[herrhauptmann]

There's eldritch knight if you want to lose a caster level in exchange for more full BAB.

If you want to specialise in changing shape, there's master transmogrifier, but you lose caster levels and BAB.

You can take more levels of spellsword to be able to channel spells.

A 1 level dip in a class that gives martial maneuvers qualifies you for jade pheonix mage, which is full BAB and only loses 2 caster levels. It gets you a class feature that's basically arcane strike but instead of +1 to hit per spell level sacrificed it's a fixed +4 bonus and instead of 1d4 extra damage per spell level sacrificed it's an extra 1d10 damage. You get the ability to empower a spell for free once per encounter the round after you hit someone with a martial maneuver. Unfortunately, you're one level off of being able to quicken a maneuver once per encounter after hitting someone with a martial maneuver, but if you somehow manage to meet the requirements via feats you can make it.
THe problem is that getting JPM is 3 lost caster levels, in addition to the 2 you already lost for paladin 2.
Since everyone always wants 9th level spells, that takes precedence over a fairly cool prestige class you won't even be able to finish.


If you're going to go for EK, I'd suggest asking the DM for the pathfinder version. You still lose a caster level, but at least you gain something for it.

[Godskook]

The problem is, as a Sorcadin, you have almost *NOTHING* to spare as you hit Sacred Exorcist. You're ending with the bare minimums for a sorcerer gish, 18 CL and 16 BAB. Any other option would have to be 3/4 BAB or better with full CL advancement to even be considered, and the problem is, most caster prestige classes are 1/2 BAB, lose a caster level at 1st, or aren't worth taking past 1st level(Spellsword, for example)

[prufock]

Okay, so it seems there's nothing that can top Sacred Exorcist for this build without a) losing caster levels or b) losing BAB. And since we want tasty 9th level spells and a +16 minimum BAB, those aren't such good options.

Though I do like this idea:


If you're willing to take arcane disciple to get the war domain, that solves the BAB issue by giving you divine power, if you're willing to persist it. At which point the BAB of your remaining 8 levels doesn't matter. Alternatively you could get the metamagic specialist variant (PHB2) and quicken it at the start of combat. Not the best option, but it's there.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The hilarious part about using Divine Power is that to Persist it, you'll probably need Sacred Exorcist anyway and use Illumian for Naenhoon. Another option would be using Incantatrix, but that's a lot better for Int-based characters, especially considering keeping max Spellcraft ranks isn't very important for a Sorcerer unless you need it as a prerequisite for something. Spelldancer could also work, especially since you could use Harmonious Knight to get Perform, but that's probably the least favorable of the three.

If you're going Illumian for Naenhoon, you may as well skip Divine Power since there are so many other amazing spells to use your 2/day persists on. Wraithstrike, Greater Mirror Image, Draconic Polymorph, and if you're going to get Arcane Disciple, then get the Destiny domain for Choose Destiny instead.

[hex0]

Witchhunter from Oriental Adventures give you CHA to saves in 2 levels AND gives you +1 existing casting and full BAB, so if you can sub that for Paladin, do it.

[Doc Roc]

Witchhunter from Oriental Adventures give you CHA to saves in 2 levels AND gives you +1 existing casting and full BAB, so if you can sub that for Paladin, do it.

Page number?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Page number?

Seriously? The book has a table of contents! (54)


You get Cha to saves at the 1st level, which should stack with Divine Grace, but it's only 5/10 spellcasting, skipping the 1st, 3rd, 4th, 6th, and 8th levels. With only one level of spellcasting in the first four levels, it's probably only suitable for a one or two level dip in most gish builds despite its full BAB.

[dextercorvia]

Getting to BAB+5 is a pain if you are taking no melee classes at the front end.

[hex0]

Getting to BAB+5 is a pain if you are taking no melee classes at the front end.

If you can play an outsider (to be prof. with all martial weapons) Sorcerer 6/Eldritch Knight 2/Witchhunter 2/Abjurant Champion 5/Eldrtich Knight 5

Which would give you 18th level Sorcerer Casting and 18 BAB. Knight Phantom instead of Eldtrich Knight if possible. Maybe dip Dragon Slayer and/or Spellsword along the way. :smallbiggrin:

Or you could play a Battle Sorcerer. :smallannoyed: and get there faster.

[dextercorvia]

If you can play an outsider (to be prof. with all martial weapons) Sorcerer 6/Eldritch Knight 2/Witchhunter 2/Abjurant Champion 5/Eldrtich Knight 5

Which would give you 18th level Sorcerer Casting and 18 BAB. Knight Phantom instead of Eldtrich Knight if possible. Maybe dip Dragon Slayer and/or Spellsword along the way. :smallbiggrin:

Or you could play a Battle Sorcerer. :smallannoyed: and get there faster.

Your BAB is +17.

You only get to 18 if you use Versatile Spellcaster or similar to get into Eldritch Knight after Sorcerer 4. Of course, now that you have EK, there is really no reason to drop another casting level for Cha to saves.