[3.5]Diabolus, Sha'ir, and Dvati

[Howler Dagger]

So, three completely diffrent questions, all about dragon magazine material.

How good is the Diabolus race? It gets a natural weapon that does 2d4 damage, and delivers a poison that sickens, which has a scaling DC with your HD. It has the outsider(native) type, as well as the chaotic subtype. It has a bonus to a few checks, and a penalty to some. It has darkvision also. It is LA+1? How good is it in general, and what classes would it be good for?

Another question is about the sha'ir. It has to send its familiar to retrieve spells. How annoying is this in actual gameplay?

The Dvati race intrigues me, playing two characters at once. How well does this work out in actual gmaeplay? Do the other players fell liek they are oveershadowed by the 2 of them?

[Tokuhara]

Diabolus is fun, since you look very odd as an Exalted character

Sha'ir is great if played with the houserule that they count as both Arcane & Divine since it is never explicitly said, as a Raptoran, and using Mage of the Arcane Order 4 and Skypledged 10 so you are never out of spells

Dvati was banned by my DM because of a Rogue/Ranger/Scout Dvati twins who would circle 10 ft. around a target, and SA/Skirmish things to death

[arguskos]

How good is the Diabolus race? It gets a natural weapon that does 2d4 damage, and delivers a poison that sickens, which has a scaling DC with your HD. It has the outsider(native) type, as well as the chaotic subtype. It has a bonus to a few checks, and a penalty to some. It has darkvision also. It is LA+1? How good is it in general, and what classes would it be good for?
They're good, but they're not LA +1 good (ignoring lulzy Alter Self silliness). They're just a nice solid race, probably on par with elves or whatnot.


Another question is about the sha'ir. It has to send its familiar to retrieve spells. How annoying is this in actual gameplay?
Pretty damn annoying, not gonna lie. Flavorful and fun though.


The Dvati race intrigues me, playing two characters at once. How well does this work out in actual gmaeplay? Do the other players fell liek they are oveershadowed by the 2 of them?
Dvati are overwhelmed by the issue of exactly how their action economy breaks down. This is a serious "talk to your DM" situation.

[Hazzardevil]

Dvati are overwhelmed by the issue of exactly how their action economy breaks down. This is a serious "talk to your DM" situation.

I'll explain the exact mechanics of how the Dvati works.

1. Each Dvati has half the health of the total that any other character with your build would have.
So a level 1 wizard with 10 con would then have both dvati have 2 hp each.
2. They have to share their actions.
So if your a dvati wizard, they have to spend 2 standard actions (1 each) to cast a standard action spell.
However dvati fighters would be both dvati have to hit something with a greatsword. (2 attacks, 1 each)
3. Due to LA, it helps a lot if they flank, do it whenever you can.

[Sdonourg]

Another question is about the sha'ir. It has to send its familiar to retrieve spells. How annoying is this in actual gameplay?

One of my players played sha'ir from 1st to 4th level and enjoys it. Annoying spell retrieve came up only once.

[marcielle]

Flanking? Bah! Double Warblade spamming White Raven Tactics is the way to go. Since you don't need a concentration check to use a martial maneuver under duress, they can theoretically each prepare and use their own maneuvers seperately but even without it they get awesome . What you do is have one twin use a maneuver and WRT himself another turn. Then you recover it and make an attack to boot. Now the second twin uses a maneuver and then uses WRT again. That 2 maneuvers and attacks in a row and depending on the maneuvers, that can seriously lay the hurt.

Of course, let's not forget the Crusader's Iron Guard Glare stance. In effect, the 2 twins stand side by side and the enemy gets a -4 to hit no matter what. At low levels that means near nothing hits you on less than a 19 if you have decent armor and a shield.

Basically, White Raven and Dvati are a beautiful thing to behold. And martial adepts get a lot more out of them than other classes. Except maybe Totemists. SO MANY ATTACKS.

It also occurs to me that fear stacking might be an awesome thing to do with Dvati. They might also give you twice the undead cap limit for things like Dread Necromancer.

Do Marshall auras stack? That would be awesome.

[Howler Dagger]

Flanking? Bah! Double Warblade spamming White Raven Tactics is the way to go. Since you don't need a concentration check to use a martial maneuver under duress, they can theoretically each prepare and use their own maneuvers seperately but even without it they get awesome .

Im pretty sure it doesnt work this way, I think you have one set of prepared manuevers that each can use, similar how you use spells.

[arguskos]

1. Each Dvati has half the health of the total that any other character with your build would have.
So a level 1 wizard with 10 con would then have both dvati have 2 hp each.
This is clear and of no debate.


2. They have to share their actions.
So if your a dvati wizard, they have to spend 2 standard actions (1 each) to cast a standard action spell.
However dvati fighters would be both dvati have to hit something with a greatsword. (2 attacks, 1 each)
This is not. Can you quote me rules text that says this? Anywhere? (Hint: it's not there)

And that's the issue. I love the dvati, always have, but they depend 100% on how your DM rules their action economy. The only even vaguely clear statement we have is from the editor of Dragon Compendium, who said he believed they had one round worth of actions between them (so, one standard, one move, and one swift between the two of them). That's also unplayable, so perhaps not. Ask your DM.

There's also a line that says they "move and act separately" but fails to clarify what that means. It could mean they get two complete rounds worth of actions a turn, or it could mean the logical meaning that they aren't mirrors of each other. Who knows? Ask your DM.

Trust me, they're a headache. They're my favorite race, and a nightmare to work with. :smallsigh:


3. Due to LA, it helps a lot if they flank, do it whenever you can.
Again, this is beyond debate, because it's clear.

[Prime32]

Dvati work best if they can turn into an Outsider (evil) and enter Fiend of Possession (double possession!). Dragonfire adept is also good, what with breath weapons coming from both heads whenever either spends a standard action.

[marcielle]

Like I said, it still works on 1 set of maneuvers, it's just less broken.