Evil Opposites.

[GreenSerpent]

Hi all,

I DM a game on the RPol forums and would like some assistance in devising the hackneyed plot devices, I mean evil opposites, for several characters. It's gestalt, 2nd level atm.

1st one: Human Paladin | Cloistered Cleric
Currently his evil opposite is a Necropolitian Aquatic Elf Fighter/Rogue | Favoured Soul.
I thought eventually Fighter/Rogue/Blackguard | Favoured Soul/Ur-Priest

2nd one: Human Archivist | Conjurer (Wizard, barred schools Abjuration, Evocation, Enchantment (Focused Specialist))
This one is fixed - his opposite is a Human Monk | Dread Necromancer.
He's actually a polymorphed Yuan-Ti Abomination. Even he doesn't know it, nor does no.3 in the list here, who he has a bit of a thing for.

3rd one: Human Rogue | Swashbuckler/Swordsage
Any ideas? I originally was thinking about a Whisper Gnome Rogue | Barbarian...

4th one: Human Scout | Ranger/Cloistered Cleric
Just started, complete blank in my head. Ideas?

5th one: Human Druid | Barbarian
Also no ideas.

So could I please have some assistance in wrangling the rules to make better evil opposites? If the concepts can work with Heroforge, all the better.

[legomaster00156]

1. Looks good.
2. A monk vs. a full caster. Heh. He better have a hoard of undead minions backing him up, or he's going down in seconds.
3. He appears to be the sneaky, dextrous type, so of course, Barbarian is an excellent opposite. However, I would change Rogue to Evoker, with barred schools being Illusion and Enchantment. Nothing says "making an entrance" like a Fireball.
4. I've got nothing.
5. Only one thing is certain: the evil opposite has to be as completely out of tune with nature as possible.

[Howler Dagger]

For the paladin, you could go Paladin of Slaughter (UA, in SRD). It is the CE version of the paladin, which would got great here.

[GreenSerpent]

*points at the spoiler for number two*

So number three an Evoker | Barbarian. Hrrrm. Should be amusing - there's a "killed father" background involving assassins. Rage Mage prestige class anyone?

Number 5 a Blighter might work...

EDIT: Completely forgot about Paladin of Slaughter. THAT's making an appearance.

[Strormer]

Hi all,

I DM a game on the RPol forums and would like some assistance in devising the hackneyed plot devices, I mean evil opposites, for several characters. It's gestalt, 2nd level atm.

1st one: Human Paladin | Cloistered Cleric
Currently his evil opposite is a Necropolitian Aquatic Elf Fighter/Rogue | Favoured Soul.
I thought eventually Fighter/Rogue/Blackguard | Favoured Soul/Ur-Priest

2nd one: Human Archivist | Conjurer (Wizard, barred schools Abjuration, Evocation, Enchantment (Focused Specialist))
This one is fixed - his opposite is a Human Monk | Dread Necromancer.
He's actually a polymorphed Yuan-Ti Abomination. Even he doesn't know it, nor does no.3 in the list here, who he has a bit of a thing for.

3rd one: Human Rogue | Swashbuckler/Swordsage
Any ideas? I originally was thinking about a Whisper Gnome Rogue | Barbarian...

4th one: Human Scout | Ranger/Cloistered Cleric
Just started, complete blank in my head. Ideas?

5th one: Human Druid | Barbarian
Also no ideas.

So could I please have some assistance in wrangling the rules to make better evil opposites? If the concepts can work with Heroforge, all the better.

1: Cool
2: Cool
3: If these are evil opposites, something lacking dexterity. Perhaps a goliath or the like and make him a rogue-warblade
4: I'm assuming archer, so I would go rogue/assassin-warlock and for a race, perhaps stay human, but make him opposite in physical design
5: I would go lizardfolk druid/blighter-fighter

[TroubleBrewing]

Hi all,

I DM a game on the RPol forums and would like some assistance in devising the hackneyed plot devices, I mean evil opposites, for several characters. It's gestalt, 2nd level atm.

1st one: Human Paladin | Cloistered Cleric
Currently his evil opposite is a Necropolitian Aquatic Elf Fighter/Rogue | Favoured Soul.
I thought eventually Fighter/Rogue/Blackguard | Favoured Soul/Ur-Priest

Seems good.


3rd one: Human Rogue | Swashbuckler/Swordsage
Any ideas? I originally was thinking about a Whisper Gnome Rogue | Barbarian...

The sneaky barbarian is a hilarious thing.


4th one: Human Scout | Ranger/Cloistered Cleric
Just started, complete blank in my head. Ideas?

Totemist//Whirling Frenzy barbarian, perhaps?


5th one: Human Druid | Barbarian
Also no ideas.

Elan PsyWar//Favored Soul of some destruction god.

[docnessuno]

#1
Dread necromancer // Crusader / Ur priest / Ruby knight vindicator
Knight in shining armor VS knight in black armor.

#2
Barbarian / Fighter // Rogue / Occult slayer
Master of magic VS Mage slayer

#3
Warblade // Fighter / Dwarven defender
Mobile combatant VS Inamovible combatant

#4
Duskblade // Fighter / Wizard / abjurant champion
Divine flavoured gish VS arcane flavoured one

#5
Artificer // Archivist
Master of the wild VS Maste of books

[deuxhero]

Make 1 Hexblade (or Duskblade)/Ur Preist instead so he doesn't lose casting.

For number 5, Changeling Something 4/Warshaper//Something is fun

Anything with full BAB (or has full BAB in Gestalt) works for the other half. Wildshape Urban Mystic Ranger or a martial adept works well.

[GreenSerpent]

Right. I have so far:

No 1. Chaotic Evil Necropolitian Elf Paladin of Slaughter (heading towards Warrior of Darkness) | Favoured Soul (heading towards Ur-Priest or perhaps Disciple of Mephistopheles or Thrall of Demogorgon.)

No 2. Lawful Evil (leaning towards Neutral) Human Monk | Dread Necromancer. Trying to stick to two classes for this guy.

No 3. Neutral/Chaotic Evil Strongheart Halfling Barbarian (heading towards Rage Mage) | Evoker (possibly multiclassing to Rogue/Ranger)

No 4. Neutral Evil Human Sorceror(heading towards Thrall of Graz'zt) | Enchanter or Psion (possibly heading towards Mindbender or Master Transmogrifist and Disciple of Baalzebul)

No 5. Chaotic Evil Doppleganger Druid (heading to Blighter) | Fighter (heading to Soul Eater)

Any suggestions on my improved list?

[legomaster00156]

It looks good to me minus the Monk 20 idea.

[deuxhero]

^ Monk is actually pretty decent in gestalt (not 20 levels good though). Use Unarmed Swordsage, it gets most of what a Monk does (what it doesn't it can do via magic items that are stupidly cheep) so as long as you didn't tell your PCs "he's a monk" you're good.

Blighter sucks (not "even match with unoptimized PC", but SUCK), even for NPCs and even in gestalt and especially if you have RHD+LA delaying it's late casting that requires dead levels in the first place even further. Doppleganger's abilities don't mesh at all with the class

[legomaster00156]

If I may make a suggestion, how about instead of a Blighter, simply stay straight Druid? The difference between he and the PC will be that while the PC protects nature, the evil opposite will enslave it.

[GreenSerpent]

Actually, with no 2 he only knows his Monk abilities in human form. He's untrained to fight as a Yuan-Ti Abomination Monk. As such, I need something that fits the theme of "evildoer who's trying to redeem himself but doesn't know what he truly is and what he's done".

EDIT: Just realised he's mistakedly had the soul of a Lawful Good lich spliced onto him through some ambigous wording - the lich swore he would come to no harm. And the honour of a paladin is unbreakable - even by death itself.

Hmmm. Any fire-based classes that could be a good substitute for Blighter?

EDIT: Actually straight Druid could be fine if I just hack in the Blighter's Undead Wild Shape ability. NPC, so balance issues don't matter too much.

[deuxhero]

Warmage/Something of Korn is very fire based (as is Desert Wind Swordsage).

[GreenSerpent]

Hmmm. So is Disciple of Mephistopheles.

Anyone else have pearls of wisdom to add to this?

[deuxhero]

Slotless items of ability boost are a bad idea, as it is free to stack them onto an existing item thanks to MIC.

[hex0]

1. Needs to be anti-divine since it is the opposite of a dual-divine character, but Ur-Priest negates previous divine casting. I'd suggest the Defiant PRC from the Planar Handbook. Possibly Hexblade//Crusader to start if you want to change it. If not, it is fine how it is.

2. Sounds interesting!

3. Needs to be stupid and un-graceful as possible. :smallbiggrin: Orc Barbarian with a big hammer of course.

4. Since the base character wears light armor and is focused on movement, I'd suggest a character that wears heavy armor and stops people from moving. Knight//Factotum with a spiked chain or glaive works great for this.

5. Blighter! Needs to be a real city-slicker. Artificer//Rogue would be a nice choice.

[deuxhero]

Oh! for number 5, how about making one half Wildshape Urban Ranger, but fluff him as a (city) Gangrel (http://wiki.white-wolf.com/worldofdarkness/index.php?title=Gangrel_%28Vampire:_The_Masquerade %29) (don't actually give him the vampire template though).

Use the other class to emulate a discipline. Psychic Warrior works for a lot for lot of the things not alreddy covered.