Pouncing Bard

[Yorae]

I've been trying to think of some manner of variant/acf chaining to somehow get fast movement on a bard and then trade it for lion totem for pounce, but I can't for the life of me think of a way. Is this at all possible?

I've been working on a bardblade build that focuses on DFI + many attacks, but I'm strapped for feats. I could try and get a wand of Lion's Charge in a wand chamber, but I'd prefer not to eat up both my wealth and my swift actions (since a large number of my maneuvers are boosts that use swift actions).

My DM has an interesting feat buy system set up whereupon we can obtain a fairly large number of additional feats, which I'm using to drop into Master of Nine at 12th level, but that's left me with pretty much zero to spare. The concept pretty much needs some form of pounce thats reusable multiple times on consecutive rounds.

[Kaje]

Isn't there a maneuver that gets you pounce?

[kulosle]

yeah i think so although i can't find it. there is also the sphinx claw soulmeld, but that take two feats without a dip. a dip into barbarian gets you it. that's all i can think of

[Keld Denar]

There is, but you couldn't use it every round.

UNLESS....

You could probably build the Idiot Crusader onto a Bardblade chassis. If you started with Bard1/Warblade2/Crusader1, you'd have the foundation set. You could then take Bard2-4, a couple more Warblade levels, and then when you get into Mo9, make sure that each Maneuver Readied gets put to Crusader. You could then add Pouncing Charge to your Crusader known list. As long as your Maneuvers Known = Maneuvers Readied (and thus Granted) for your Crusader side, you'll always have Pouncing Charge available, each and every round.

EDIT:
Sphinx Claw soulmeld bound to the hands chakra only grants pounce for natural weapons.

[Siosilvar]

And Person Man's list of Ways to get Pounce or Free Movement (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103358) saves the day again. Maybe. I'm not sure, but there's probably something relevant therein.

[Yorae]

And Person Man's list of Ways to get Pounce or Free Movement (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103358) saves the day again. Maybe. I'm not sure, but there's probably something relevant therein.

Checked it many times looking for guidance and while it is a great reference, I couldn't find anything that solves this exact problem.



You could probably build the Idiot Crusader onto a Bardblade chassis. If you started with Bard1/Warblade2/Crusader1, you'd have the foundation set. You could then take Bard2-4, a couple more Warblade levels, and then when you get into Mo9, make sure that each Maneuver Readied gets put to Crusader. You could then add Pouncing Charge to your Crusader known list. As long as your Maneuvers Known = Maneuvers Readied (and thus Granted) for your Crusader side, you'll always have Pouncing Charge available, each and every round.

This looks very interesting, though...

Keld, can you explain this in a little more detail? Can you divide your extra readied/known maneuvers up between your previous martial classes like that as you want?

I'd totally forgotten the Idiot Crusader, but this might just work - Song of the White Raven makes Crusader levels stack with Bard as well. =D

[Keld Denar]

You can't divide them ANY way you want, but you can divide them per level. Just like when you take a level of a spellcasting PrC with "+1 existing spellcaster level" which contains the clause "If you have more than one, pick one", you can choose at each level which of your initiator bases the whole line of maneuvers goes to.

The way to set it up, is in your first 4 levels, you need 2 levels of Warblade, 1 level of Crusader (which has to be your 4th level), and 1 level of anything else. That makes sure that you have 4 maneuvers known on your Warblade side to pick up both of the White Raven and Stone Dragon maneuvers so that when you take your first Crusader level, you only have 2 maneuvers left to pick from (Crusader Strike and Vanguard Strike). From there on, don't take another level of Crusader, relying on PrCs to gain extra maneuvers known.

Alternatively, you COULD do it with 1 level of Warblade, but you'd have to burn your 3rd level feat for Martial Study for whatever of the 4 maneuvers you didn't learn with your 3 initial Warblade maneuvers known. Your 4th level would still be Crusader.

The reason your 4th level has to be Crusader is that by 5th level, you'll have enough half-IL levels to hit IL3, which opens up 2nd level manevuers. Once 2nd level maneuvers are open, you HAVE to pick some of them with your initial 5 Crusader maneuvers known, and that ruins the whole trick.

[Yorae]

So, what exactly happens when you don't have enough maneuvers to pick from to get all the maneuvers you are entitled to? You just don't get them and only have 2 maneuvers known?

Is there something that says you can't pick the same maneuver twice?

[Keld Denar]

Maneuvers aren't like spells. You can have multiple copies of a spell. Maneuvers are different. You either know a maneuver, or you don't. Since they have a duelistic nature you couldn't learn Charging Minotaur both as a Warblade AND as a Crusader. One or the other.

If you don't have enough maneuvers known available to pick from, you simply don't get the extra maneuvers. This will ALMOST never happen. The only way its possible is in the case of the Idiot Crusader, which is pretty much the whole sceme behind the gimick. Since you have 2 maneuvers known, 2 maneuvers readied, and 2 maneuvers granted, then at the start of each turn, you have 0 maneuvers withheld. The only thing that triggers the reshuffle of a crusader's maneuvers is when he starts a turn with 0 maneuvers withheld. Thus, his recovery triggers every turn, and he is granted a new alotment of 2 maneuvers from a selection of 2 maneuvers each and every turn.

The way to keep it going is to make sure that you always have as many maneuvers granted as maneuvers known. When you learn new maneuvers from other sources, add superfluous ones to your Warblade mechanic, while adding maneuvers readied (and thus granted) to your Crusader mechanic until you come across a maneuver you want to spam every single round. Like White Raven Tactics or White Raven Hammer.

[Yorae]

The way to keep it going is to make sure that you always have as many maneuvers granted as maneuvers known. When you learn new maneuvers from other sources, add superfluous ones to your Warblade mechanic, while adding maneuvers readied (and thus granted) to your Crusader mechanic until you come across a maneuver you want to spam every single round. Like White Raven Tactics or White Raven Hammer.

Or Pouncing Charge, in this case. Totally awesome as usual, Keld. Thanks! I'll see if I can work this into my build later today and post the thing.

[Person_Man]

Although this combo works best for Binders (who can Animate Objects at will), you may wish to look at the Formation Expert feat from Complete Warrior. If there is a line of adjacent allies and an ally within a single move falls, you may make a single move to that ally’s location as if you had a Readied Action. The only pre-req is +5 BAB.

First round of combat cast Animate Objects (Standard Action), which creates Caster Level Animated Objects. Use your Move Action to move into position or Demoralize an enemy or use Winged Warrior or whatever you find useful. Then your Animated Objects get to act on the turn you summoned them. Animated Objects with wheels have a base movement speed of 70 feet. Have them form lines emanating around your square, filling as many adjacent squares as possible, with at least one line of Animated Objects coming into contact with your target. Enemies can't move through occupied squares (without Tumble), protecting you from melee attacks. If an enemy drops one of your Animated Objects, you can move to it's position as a free action, ensuring that you will always get a full attack action every round. As an added bonus, each Animated Object that is adjacent to you can use the Aid Another action to give you an unnamed +2 bonus to attacks or Skills (ie, your standard nanobots combo). You can also have them Ready actions to attack casters, which does a fairly good job of preventing spell casting.

If you don't like casting Animate Objects, you can instead invest in Handle Animal, and buy a very large number of cheap mules or dogs or whatever, and train them appropriately. (Seems like a very strait forward circus trick).

Occasionally a dragon or caster will wipe out your minions with a breath weapon or Fireball or whatever. But don't forget that you're a Bard. You have whip proficiency and Alter Self, which gives you significant reach. Plus you have spells and Music, so it's not like you have nothing to do if you're not near an enemy. Mixing up your actions is a far better metagame strategy then bending over backwards to ensure that you can make a full attack every round.

[Zaq]

Although this combo works best for Binders (who can Animate Objects at will), you may wish to look at the Formation Expert feat from Complete Warrior. If there is a line of adjacent allies and an ally within a single move falls, you may make a single move to that ally’s location as if you had a Readied Action. The only pre-req is +5 BAB.

First round of combat cast Animate Objects (Standard Action), which creates Caster Level Animated Objects. Use your Move Action to move into position or Demoralize an enemy or use Winged Warrior or whatever you find useful. Then your Animated Objects get to act on the turn you summoned them. Animated Objects with wheels have a base movement speed of 70 feet. Have them form lines emanating around your square, filling as many adjacent squares as possible, with at least one line of Animated Objects coming into contact with your target. Enemies can't move through occupied squares (without Tumble), protecting you from melee attacks. If an enemy drops one of your Animated Objects, you can move to it's position as a free action, ensuring that you will always get a full attack action every round. As an added bonus, each Animated Object that is adjacent to you can use the Aid Another action to give you an unnamed +2 bonus to attacks or Skills (ie, your standard nanobots combo). You can also have them Ready actions to attack casters, which does a fairly good job of preventing spell casting.

If you don't like casting Animate Objects, you can instead invest in Handle Animal, and buy a very large number of cheap mules or dogs or whatever, and train them appropriately. (Seems like a very strait forward circus trick).

Occasionally a dragon or caster will wipe out your minions with a breath weapon or Fireball or whatever. But don't forget that you're a Bard. You have whip proficiency and Alter Self, which gives you significant reach. Plus you have spells and Music, so it's not like you have nothing to do if you're not near an enemy. Mixing up your actions is a far better metagame strategy then bending over backwards to ensure that you can make a full attack every round.

That has to be the most unnecessarily complicated way of getting free movement that I've ever seen. I love it.