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View Full Version : fastest way to get get combat reflexes, improved trip & combat expertise?



Lictor of Thrax
2011-11-09, 05:37 PM
So my character sort of got curveballed and suddenly he finds himself using a spiked chain but being a member of a rather feat starved class. I'm trying to find the fastest way to get combat reflexes, improved trip and combat expertise (simply because so many spiked chain feats require it).

My character level is 4 and my primary class gets no bonus feats until 10th level.

Right now, the leading advice that is workable in character is Chaos Monk with the Passive Way variant style for 2 levels or, quite simply, fighter 2 levels, since both of those would mean that at 6th level I'd have or be able to select all those feats.

The fighter options are pretty drab and boring, since fighters don't have any fun ACF's, but I'd keep my base attack bonus on par and get to choose Combat Reflexes first, which would be nice, since that's far more useful that Combat Expertise, which is mostly just a pre-req for Improved Trip and some other feats.

The Monk/Passive Way method would grant me Expertise first, which is a little less appealing, and also would lose one BAB but would allow me to ACF Invisible Fist, the ability to go invisible for a round once every 4 rounds - which really suits my character's sneak attack abilities.

Are there any other ways to get those three feats with tricks or dips. About the only thing off the table is Tome of Battle and probably Psionics. The character is a roguish/swashbuckler type gray elf and while our group allows for a healthy dose of rule wiggling for gaining levels, we try and make things make sense RP-wise, so going barbarian doesn't really suit my character.

vitkiraven
2011-11-09, 06:07 PM
9000 gp plus a friendly psion? I think it would take roughly 3 weeks, if I remember correctly.

Lateral
2011-11-09, 06:07 PM
Wolf Totem Barbarian 2. The nice thing about that is you don't even need Combat Expertise or INT 13- you get Improved Trip as a bonus feat without prerequisites. Plus, you get some of the perks of a barbarian dip- namely, Fast Movement which can be traded for Pounce and Rage 1/day which can become pretty useful with Whirling Frenzy and Extra Rage.

Essence_of_War
2011-11-09, 06:09 PM
I think you nailed the obvious ones, but Barbarians 2, wolf-totem (SRD) gets you improved trip without having to meet the requirements for Combat Expertise.

Also, I've found Combat Reflexes + Standstill to be almost as useful as Reflexes+Imp. Trip and you don't need the silly Combat expertise either.

Metahuman1
2011-11-09, 06:15 PM
Depending on character, you might get some milage out of Feat Rouge 2.

Edit: Or see if the DM will let you pick up a couple of flaws for bonus feats. Or if you can make an affiliation that gives you some or all of the feats.

Rubik
2011-11-09, 06:51 PM
Two Dark Chaos Feat Swap iterations? Cheaper if you pay a caster. Include magical locations or item-granted feats for more fun.

Or as said earlier, pay a psion for one manifestation of Psychic Reformation.

Or retrain your feats for 50 gp each.

Lateral
2011-11-09, 07:10 PM
Rouge

:sigh:

That... "said," for lack of a better term, Feat Rogue 2 is a viable option as well. It doesn't get you Improved Trip for free, but it does let you get it in the same number of levels as Barbarian 2; however, unlike, say, Fighter 2, it's got some nice side abilities as well- Evasion, Trapfinding, and 31337 5k1ll5. (:smalltongue:)

hex0
2011-11-09, 07:23 PM
You can become a Vampire and get Combat Reflexes.

Gullintanni
2011-11-09, 07:43 PM
:sigh:


I feel your pain.

Also, if you trade spellcasting away via the Champion of the Wild ACF in Complete Champion, you can take Combat Expertise and Improved Trip at Level 1 and 4 of Ranger. This nets you an Animal Companion, if you take 1 more level of Ranger you can Wildshape with the Wildshape variant ranger and you pick up Track and Endurance for free.

Not the fastest route, but it'll get you there in style.

JaronK
2011-11-09, 07:45 PM
Martial Monk gets two of them at levels 1 and 2. Also Martial Rogue. Psychic Warrior. OA Samurai.

JaronK

vitkiraven
2011-11-09, 08:15 PM
As an addendum to my previous, I was refering to utilizing the Otyugh Hole three times, and swapping out the iron will each time for something more useful.

As a secondary question, anyone know which is cheaper between dark chaos, or psion for changing out feats?

Gullintanni
2011-11-09, 08:17 PM
As an addendum to my previous, I was refering to utilizing the Otyugh Hole three times, and swapping out the iron will each time for something more useful.

As a secondary question, anyone know which is cheaper between dark chaos, or psion for changing out feats?

Chaos bears an xp cost afaik. Does Psion?

Flickerdart
2011-11-09, 08:44 PM
Psychic Reformation costs 50xp per level you go back, split between manifester and target. However, you can only swap out things you actually got to choose when levelling up, so no Otyugh Hole abuse.

Lictor of Thrax
2011-11-09, 09:35 PM
Everybody mentioning feat rogue is referring to Combat Rogue, right?

Amphetryon
2011-11-09, 09:44 PM
Everybody mentioning feat rogue is referring to Combat Rogue, right?
They mean this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm). Lose Sneak Attack, gain feats (scroll down).