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Balor01
2011-11-10, 07:06 AM
Most of my (all sandbox) campaigns were "populated" with screeching-monkey-like-munchkinish-powergaming-awesome-roleplaying-cool-all-around players who would rip out the campaign gear shift and stab the dragon with it. Really, so far I seem to have had great luck with my PCs who would in a session or two start, by themselves, rolling the story on and i just added things here and there. All of my campaigns so far were sandbox and all went great ... untill, some day I got a couple on my team. He is a long-time dnd gamer, "tested material" we might say, she only tried dnd once. Since I had sessions with women players before and they turned out quite ok, I had no problems with it. Here however ... things got bogged down. The "rampaging demon PCs" are all of a sudden shyly standing in corner and waiting for the DM (me) to handle them out The Quest.
I was patching up this stalemate with some sad and tastes-like-cardboard quests but this really is not working. It seems to me that entire party is looking toward our new girlfriend player, sort of afraid to do anything too crazy (I am pretty sure if they kicked in their regular high-gear RP-ing, her bland PC would just stay in some Inn, drinking alone) and that this she-demon just sucked out all the "divine/crazy spark" of of my PCs.

Damn, playground, I do not know what to do. I mean, I guess I will have to face these people with the facts soon, because I will not tailor my campaign half a dozen ways, just to see which one sticks. My campaignbuilding approach worked well on multiple occasions, is, as it seems, not related to her being (a darn SHY AND SILENT!!1!1) girl, but this female nexus of gloom ... well, she may just have to go.

Things may work out by themselves in time anyway.

Important note: When replying, do not mention "talk to them". I will. I would just like your opinion on the situation.

mint
2011-11-10, 07:19 AM
Here's what I'd say:
"Listen man, I love you. I am super into you in a sexual way. Its okay, I don't expect you to feel for me what I feel for you. We can still be friends, I hope. But please don't bring your girlfriend to the game, it just... hurts too much."

Bonus points if it also true.

NOhara24
2011-11-10, 07:58 AM
I'm familiar with what the OP is talking about. One person's presence (or lack thereof) can completely change a group's attitude. Whenever one person is missing from our group, we instantly have a less-productive night of play.

But as for a solution, either write quests that encourage the group to return to their "Why? BECAUSE F*** YOU THAT'S WHY!" attitude, or just come clean and say "Look, you all have suddenly changed your mode of play. It's hard to DM that and make things still entertaining for you all, and myself." and ask them to come out of their shell.

Or just kick the couple out. Things were going fine without them there.

Strawberries
2011-11-10, 11:35 AM
It seems to me that entire party is looking toward our new girlfriend player, sort of afraid to do anything too crazy (I am pretty sure if they kicked in their regular high-gear RP-ing, her bland PC would just stay in some Inn, drinking alone) and that this she-demon just sucked out all the "divine/crazy spark" of of my PCs.

:smallannoyed:

Well, have you considered this is the second time she is playing d&d, and she might just need to get used to how things work? :smallannoyed:
And how do you know she would? Maybe if the other players "kicked in their regular high-gear RP-ing", she would see another way of playing, let go of the fear of "doing wrong" and jump right in?


Damn, playground, I do not know what to do. I mean, I guess I will have to face these people with the facts soon, because I will not tailor my campaign half a dozen ways, just to see which one sticks. My campaignbuilding approach worked well on multiple occasions, is, as it seems, not related to her being (a darn SHY AND SILENT!!1!1) girl, but this female nexus of gloom ... well, she may just have to go.


So she is SHY AND SILENT!!1!1! Have you tried putting the spotlight on her for a while (say, a half hour), to coax her out of her shyness?
I'd say "talk to her" more than "talk to them".

Also, again, she is a new player. And from what you wrote, I suspect a new gamer in general, too. Calling her a "female nexus of gloom" because she maybe needs a bit of time to let go of some inhibitions may be a bit harsh, don't you think?

Elfinor
2011-11-10, 12:52 PM
I'd suggest talking to the other players first about how they've suddenly changed their playing style. As in, without her - it'd probably make her feel a bit guilty, which is unjustified considering she's had like all of two games to model her playstyle on. It's (probably) not her 'fault' the other players suddenly changed when she appeared. I'd imagine needs several examples of the players at their best, hopefully that should help her come out of her shell. They must show her the way to uninhibited D&D shenanigans:smalltongue:

And maybe give her some heaps of op-fu help, if she hasn't received enough already.

Emmerask
2011-11-10, 01:49 PM
In all honesty I would never expect a new player to be a "screeching-monkey-like-munchkinish-powergaming-awesome-roleplaying-cool-all-around player".

She is new to the game, has more then likely not a good grasp of the rules yet and wants to learn how d&d is played.
Heck even someone who has a good grasp of the rules might be more in spectator mode until he/she gets a grasp of how d&d is run in that group because there can be extreme differences...

SO yes, I would say kick your old players in the nuts (figure of speech), tell them to get their act together and play normal and donīt act shy just because of 2 new players.

Fallbot
2011-11-10, 03:53 PM
Since I had sessions with women players before and they turned out quite ok, I had no problems with it. Here however ... things got bogged down. [...] this she-demon just sucked out all the "divine/crazy spark" of of my PCs. [...] not related to her being (a darn SHY AND SILENT!!1!1) girl, but this female nexus of gloom ... well, she may just have to go.



"I don't have a problem with female gamers but-" If it's not related to her being a girl, why do you keep bringing up her gender?

Just talk to her. You know, like you would to a man. Ask her if there's anything wrong, if she's understanding the rules alright and is enjoying the game. Ask her if there's anything that she'd like you to include in the campaign that would excite her and bring her out of her shell.

Belril Duskwalk
2011-11-10, 05:35 PM
Question: How important is the presence of the couple, either as a unit or as individuals? If the answer is 'not very' I say just mention to the rest of the group that you'd like the old spark back. Encourage them to take a spin at their old ways. If they do that, one of two things probably happens: 1) The couple gets swept up in the wave, they play along and a great time is had by all. 2) The couple gets scared off, and your group is back to their old ways. Seems to me either way is a win.

I suspect with a little prep work with the girl you might be able to load the odds in favor of keeping her around, but not being familiar with the player/character I'm not sure what would be necessary to make that happen.

EDIT: If the answer is that you would prefer to integrate her into the campaign rather than risk losing her, go with Mando Knight's plan down below. Much more sensible.

Mando Knight
2011-11-10, 08:37 PM
I'd say "talk to her" more than "talk to them".

Step 1 for solving a problem with someone: talk to that someone about the problem. Not the other players, not the Playground, that person.

Also, don't blame her. Especially since this is a relatively new thing to her. Do you want to scare away girls who are giving the hobby a try? I thought we as a community were past the other-sex-has-cooties stage. Or at least willing to kick stereotyping to the curb.

Furthermore, accept that some of the blame might fall on you. No one's perfect, and not everyone is receptive to the same kind of DM, and not all styles of DMing are conducive to all players. So you like your campaigns super-sandbox-y. Maybe she doesn't. If you want to get from where you are to where you want to be, sometimes you need to ride the rails, and sometimes you need to show people when to jump off of them. Help her help you help the party in introducing her to their crazy train you're so fond of. Collaborate with her to create an enemy for her, then let this enemy drive a couple sessions, using the enemy to put them into a position where the party has to come up with one of their schemes in order to break out. Nothing helps a new character integrate into an existing campaign like a bit of DM collaboration.

Thinker
2011-11-11, 02:30 AM
You could always try easing off of the sandbox mode and create some plot hooks for your characters to stumble across. The Alexandrian's Three Clue Rule (http://thealexandrian.net/creations/misc/three-clue-rule.html) is pretty good for getting them to catch on and then follow a given plot hook. It works better than an info dump in making the players follow your hook and leads nicely into Node based Design (http://thealexandrian.net/creations/misc/node-design/node-design.html).

For example, you want them to know about a band of orcs who are tattooed with red marks and have kidnapped a lesser princess of the realm (for example, the king's niece) while she was traveling to the Kingdom of Otherland to the south. While at the tavern, they overhear a caravan guard talking about an orc raid on a noble's envoy in the south. Later, they hear a crier announcing that the Crown is offering a reward for any information about a group of orcs who have red tattoos on them. Finally, a column of soldiers is stopping for supplies in town on their way to the south to search for a kidnapped princess. Don't beat them over the head with it, but split up the clues and if the players are interested, they will go investigate.

If you leave a few of these hooks around, the players may want to follow one at some point.