An 80 year old woman adventurer

[Tectonic Robot]

Heyyo, first time posting in this area of the forum. Uh, hi.

I was reading the Discworld books, and I found myself really liking the character Granny Weatherwax. I thought to myself, "would it be possible to make an 80-year old adventurer?"

For the record, I doubt I can get my hands on any of the non-core rulebooks, and this is mostly a thought exercise. I just thought all you crazy dudes would appreciate having something to muzzle over, and it would be fun having a charcter like that.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Shed have to be a caster due to taking a -6 to all physical stats for being venerable.

[Urpriest]

But since Weatherwax is a caster, that's not too bad. Basically she'd be very fragile and would have trouble acting first in combat without significant optimization, but if you had friends who were reasonably effective in keeping things from hitting you you could make a solid contribution.

[Pilo]

Warning : Useless post.

Elf usually start adventuring around 120 years old so it is possible.

There is aslo a few class like druid which give you eternal youth.

So it is possible.

[Gnaeus]

Or a social build. Granny Weatherwax uses intimidate and bluff way more often than she uses magic.

Not really sure how to model her ability to possess animals. There are druid spells that do it, but druid isn't really a good fit for her.

Probably go to the PF SRD. and make her a witch. She almost definately has Coven, Flight, and Feral Speech hexes.

[Urpriest]

Or a social build. Granny Weatherwax uses intimidate and bluff way more often than she uses magic.

Not really sure how to model her ability to possess animals. There are druid spells that do it, but druid isn't really a good fit for her.

Probably go to the PF SRD. and make her a witch. She almost definately has Coven, Flight, and Feral Speech hexes.

If he's just using 3.5 Core, the Witch spell list in the DMG probably has the needed spells.

[Vowtz]

"would it be possible to make an 80-year old adventurer?"
Yes, it is.


Timeless Body (Ex): Upon attaining 17th level, a monk no
longer takes penalties to her ability scores for aging and cannot be
magically aged. Any such penalties that she has already taken,
however, remain in place. Bonuses still accrue, and the monk still
dies of old age when her time is up.


Green Star Adept
Emerald Perfection (Ex): ...
—He no longer takes ability score penalties for aging and
cannot be magically aged. He cannot die of old age and might
exist in this form for eons.

[death pig]

Yes, it is.

{{Scrubbed}}

[Vowtz]

{{Scrubbed}}Thank you! But why is it so bad?

[Tectonic Robot]

I really meant an 80 year old human woman that just started adventuring. And she doesn't need to be exactly like Weatherwax; that was just my inspiration.

[Kobold-Bard]

I really meant an 80 year old human woman that just started adventuring. And she doesn't need to be exactly like Weatherwax; that was just my inspiration.

Well the answer is yes. She takes -6 to Str, Dex, Con & gets +3 to Int, Wis, Cha.

Beyond those stat changes age has zero effect in 3.5. The rest is just fluff.

[Tectonic Robot]

Well the answer is yes. She takes -6 to Str, Dex, Con & gets +3 to Int, Wis, Cha.

Beyond those stat changes age has zero effect in 3.5. The rest is just fluff.

Eeesh, I thought it was minus 3 to the physicals. That makes things... problematic.

[Yorae]

So long as she has Skill Focus (Headology)

[Reluctance]

The trope you're going for is that an old person who has been doing something for most of their life is someone who has gotten very, very good at it. This is counteracted by the usual D&D adventure pacing (where going 1-20 is expected to happen before the characters can appreciably age), as well as the fact that first level starting adventurers are, by definition, not "very, very good" at things.

45 (-1 physicals, +1 mentals) or 60 (-3 physicals, +2 mentals) are a bit less of a stat hit for starting as an older adult. But you won't be better in the ways that matter (read: class levels) than your equally leveled PC peers.

[Flickerdart]

I'd probably peg her as a Bard of some measure. Who cares that your physical scores are low when you have Charisma to everything several times?

[Ajadea]

Or maybe a factotum? Brains over Brawn can keep her viable, even when she's venerable. The constitution hit is rougher to deal with. I'd try to keep the end value at least at 8. Inspiration points can at least keep your Fortitude save up. Improved Toughness is good. High AC is good. Staying out of the way is good.

[Morph Bark]

Or a social build. Granny Weatherwax uses intimidate and bluff way more often than she uses magic.

CW Samurai? :smallamused:


Or maybe a factotum? Brains over Brawn can keep her viable, even when she's venerable. The constitution hit is rougher to deal with. I'd try to keep the end value at least at 8. Inspiration points can at least keep your Fortitude save up. Improved Toughness is good. High AC is good. Staying out of the way is good.

...heh. Now I want to try a Venerable Human skillmonkey with Nymph's Kiss.

The fluff will be delicious.

[Optimator]

I dunno, even with -6 physical stats a Warblade still might be able to hang. Actually, if she'd just starting out as in low level then it would be hard. The higher the level the less it would matter.

[Diefje]

+5 RP armor, what? No band of orcs is gonna be yelling "kill the little old lady first!" and all the monsters will go for the "juicier" targets.

On a side not, I find it hilarious that a venerable human can still haul ass at full speed, but he can barely lift a sack of potatoes.

[skycycle blues]

+5 RP armor, what? No band of orcs is gonna be yelling "kill the little old lady first!" and all the monsters will go for the "juicier" targets.

On a side not, I find it hilarious that a venerable human can still haul ass at full speed, but he can barely lift a sack of potatoes.

For that exact reason, I think that there should be some system by which your Dex bonus can provide you with either a bonus to speed if high or a penalty if super low. I think it makes at least as much sense as size determining speed, if not more.

Also, potatoes are heavy.

[Morph Bark]

+5 RP armor, what? No band of orcs is gonna be yelling "kill the little old lady first!" and all the monsters will go for the "juicier" targets.

On a side not, I find it hilarious that a venerable human can still haul ass at full speed, but he can barely lift a sack of potatoes.

IIRC, somewhere there were rules on additional aging penalties (to speed, Spot, Search and Listen), but I dunno where.

[Psyren]

As a Psion, you can adventure as a sandwich. Being an old lady is cake.

They even learn Ransotengai. (http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Ransotengai#Rare_Quincy_Techniques) (Like, literally. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/controlBody.htm))

[Optimator]

For that exact reason, I think that there should be some system by which your Dex bonus can provide you with either a bonus to speed if high or a penalty if super low. I think it makes at least as much sense as size determining speed, if not more.


Strength would make more sense.

[Lord Vukodlak]

As a Psion, you can adventure as a sandwich. Being an old lady is cake.

They even learn Ransotengai. (http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Ransotengai#Rare_Quincy_Techniques) (Like, literally. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/controlBody.htm))

A Psion actually might work best as the vigor power can provide temporary it points and a Astral Construct can take some heat off you.

[Coidzor]

As a Psion, you can adventure as a sandwich. Being an old lady is cake.

They even learn Ransotengai. (http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Ransotengai#Rare_Quincy_Techniques) (Like, literally. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/controlBody.htm))

...Granny Weatherwax as a cake? :smallconfused:

That's... that's just scary. :smalleek:

[Morph Bark]

That's... that's just scary. :smalleek:

Don't worry, it's an untruth.

[noparlpf]

But since Weatherwax is a caster, that's not too bad. Basically she'd be very fragile and would have trouble acting first in combat without significant optimization, but if you had friends who were reasonably effective in keeping things from hitting you you could make a solid contribution.

So why is Initiative a Dex check, exactly? I feel like it should be a mental stat. I've seen plenty of old characters in fiction who are incredibly alert and quick to act, despite physical frailty.

Anyway, like other people have said, there's nothing stopping you besides the -6 to all physical stats. Good luck!

[Lord Vukodlak]

So why is Initiative a Dex check, exactly? I feel like it should be a mental stat. I've seen plenty of old characters in fiction who are incredibly alert and quick to act, despite physical frailty.

Thats more of a result of good, spot and listen checks. If your sneaking up one someone but they notice you a few rounds before you act they could essentially get a surprise round on you. Especially if they pretend not to have noticed.

But initiatve is about reflexes, Two gunman drawing in a duel, Samuari preparing for an Iaijutsu duel. If two people see one another at the same time. The faster guy wll go first.

[noparlpf]

Thats more of a result of good, spot and listen checks. If your sneaking up one someone but they notice you a few rounds before you act they could essentially get a surprise round on you. Especially if they pretend not to have noticed.

But initiatve is about reflexes, Two gunman drawing in a duel, Samuari preparing for an Iaijutsu duel. If two people see one another at the same time. The faster guy wll go first.

Iaijutsu in D&D is a Cha-based skill, you know.

[Optimator]

Dex must be 2/3 physical 1/3 mental stat or something. I personally try not to dwell on it and chalk it up as one of those crazy D&D abstractions to be lampshaded.

[Elric VIII]

Just some comparative analysis (assuming point buy): For a character that would want normally high mental stats (14+) and low physical stats (14-) the first 2 age categories represent an increase in relative point buy*, but Venerable represents the other side of the curve. This is only true with high point buys, however (i.e. - ones that can afford to spend 2-3 points per +1 ability score for multiple scores).

*just in case my woording is poor, here's an example:
Adult
{table=head]Ability | End Value | Point Cost
Str | 10 | 2
Dex | 10 | 2
Con | 10 | 2
Int | 18 | 16
Wis | 18 | 16
Cha | 18 | 16[/table]
This array would cost 54 points.

Middle Age
{table=head]Ability | End Value | Point Cost
Str | 11-1= 10 | 3
Dex | 11-1= 10 | 3
Con | 11-1= 10 | 3
Int | 17+1= 18 | 13
Wis | 17+1= 18 | 13
Cha | 17+1= 18 | 13[/table]
This one only costs 48 points, a net decrease in total cost.

Old
{table=head]Ability | End Value | Point Cost
Str | 13-3= 10 | 5
Dex | 13-3= 10 | 5
Con | 13-3= 10 | 5
Int | 16+2= 18 | 10
Wis | 16+2= 18 | 10
Cha | 16+2= 18 | 10[/table]
This one costs 45 points, a smaller deacrease from the last, when compared to the first.

Venerable
{table=head]Ability | End Value | Point Cost
Str | 16-6= 10 | 10
Dex | 16-6= 10 | 10
Con | 16-6= 10 | 10
Int | 15+3= 18 | 8
Wis | 15+3= 18 | 8
Cha | 15+3= 18 | 8[/table]
This costs 54, same as Adult.

So, basically, the playability depends on the point buy.

For races with good ability score boosts, there is more freedom in PB (Arctic Dwarf, for instance gets +4 Con, -4 Cha).

[CarpeGuitarrem]

So why is Initiative a Dex check, exactly? I feel like it should be a mental stat. I've seen plenty of old characters in fiction who are incredibly alert and quick to act, despite physical frailty.

Alertness is one thing, noticing that someone is doing something. Initiative requires you then to do something reflexively, in time.

For instance: you see a guy begin to move to attack you. If you want to make your attack first (going first in initiative), you have to be deft and quick enough to do so. Otherwise...well, congrats! You've noticed that he's going to attack you. Now defend against that attack!

[noparlpf]

Alertness is one thing, noticing that someone is doing something. Initiative requires you then to do something reflexively, in time.

For instance: you see a guy begin to move to attack you. If you want to make your attack first (going first in initiative), you have to be deft and quick enough to do so. Otherwise...well, congrats! You've noticed that he's going to attack you. Now defend against that attack!

Say your response is to cast a spell. How does that require dexterity? But nevermind, we're derailing the thread here.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Iaijutsu in D&D is a Cha-based skill, you know.

Not when determining who strikes first. Its still dex based.


Dex must be 2/3 physical 1/3 mental stat or something. I personally try not to dwell on it and chalk it up as one of those crazy D&D abstractions to be lampshaded.

Most systems base initative on a dex or equivalent physical, I've seen a few that have it be a combination of two. Such as in shadowrun its your Reaction plus your Intuition.

[Tectonic Robot]

Hehe! People like my thread! Happiness!


I dunno, even with -6 physical stats a Warblade still might be able to hang. Actually, if she'd just starting out as in low level then it would be hard. The higher the level the less it would matter.
You mean an 80 year-old women could actually be a viable melee fighter? I suppose that makes sense at high level, but still.

+5 RP armor, what? No band of orcs is gonna be yelling "kill the little old lady first!" and all the monsters will go for the "juicier" targets.

On a side not, I find it hilarious that a venerable human can still haul ass at full speed, but he can barely lift a sack of potatoes.
That sounds like something that a reasonable DM would allow. Usually, at least.

...heh. Now I want to try a Venerable Human skillmonkey with Nymph's Kiss.

The fluff will be delicious.
That sounds hilarious. Care to explain on what you are talking about here?

Just some comparative analysis (assuming point buy): For a character that would want normally high mental stats (14+) and low physical stats (14-) the first 2 age categories represent an increase in relative point buy*, but Venerable represents the other side of the curve. This is only true with high point buys, however (i.e. - ones that can afford to spend 2-3 points per +1 ability score for multiple scores).

*just in case my woording is poor, here's an example:
Adult
{table=head]Ability | End Value | Point Cost
Str | 10 | 2
Dex | 10 | 2
Con | 10 | 2
Int | 18 | 16
Wis | 18 | 16
Cha | 18 | 16[/table]
This array would cost 54 points.

Middle Age
{table=head]Ability | End Value | Point Cost
Str | 11-1= 10 | 3
Dex | 11-1= 10 | 3
Con | 11-1= 10 | 3
Int | 17+1= 18 | 13
Wis | 17+1= 18 | 13
Cha | 17+1= 18 | 13[/table]
This one only costs 48 points, a net decrease in total cost.

Old
{table=head]Ability | End Value | Point Cost
Str | 13-3= 10 | 5
Dex | 13-3= 10 | 5
Con | 13-3= 10 | 5
Int | 16+2= 18 | 10
Wis | 16+2= 18 | 10
Cha | 16+2= 18 | 10[/table]
This one costs 45 points, a smaller deacrease from the last, when compared to the first.

Venerable
{table=head]Ability | End Value | Point Cost
Str | 16-6= 10 | 10
Dex | 16-6= 10 | 10
Con | 16-6= 10 | 10
Int | 15+3= 18 | 8
Wis | 15+3= 18 | 8
Cha | 15+3= 18 | 8[/table]
This costs 54, same as Adult.

So, basically, the playability depends on the point buy.

For races with good ability score boosts, there is more freedom in PB (Arctic Dwarf, for instance gets +4 Con, -4 Cha).

So, basically, a 65 year-old women would be much more optimized for adventuring? Feel free to use that as a base, guys.

[Axier]

Love the concept of an 80 year old woman adventurer, and now want to do it.

Also, on the off-topic of Initiave, the speed you react is more physical than the thought of reaction. This is why, I believe, spot and listen are WIS, while Initiave (How fast you physically react in combat), is DEX, although I like the Shadowrun Initiave system more anyway.

[Psyren]

Love the concept of an 80 year old woman adventurer, and now want to do it.

Also, on the off-topic of Initiave, the speed you react is more physical than the thought of reaction. This is why, I believe, spot and listen are WIS, while Initiave (How fast you physically react in combat), is DEX, although I like the Shadowrun Initiave system more anyway.

If that were really true though, having psionics, SLAs, Supernatural abilities, or any other technique that only requires thought should either bump up your initiative or let you act out of turn. But all of those default to a standard unless otherwise specified, and even quickened bump you up only to a swift.

[marcielle]

Dunno about physical/mental side but natural loss of neurons (and possibly demyelination from various diseases medieval DnD wouldnt even recognize) will in fact cause MOST old peoples reaction times to decrease.

That aside, does the aging entry stipulate that you add it before or after buying points in point buy? Just checking.

It is entirely possible to be venerable Dragonfire Adept( lower DCs but that wont stop entangling breath), Buff Marshall(viable only with other meelees in group), Skillmonkey Incarnate( this is the LEAST option though), Social Rogue( DIPLOMANCER ftw), Sneaksage(who needs hide when you can invis and teleport at will). Bow rangers are completely viable with Zen Archery. And some buff wands for your companion.

Factotums are awesome. Just find a way to stay out of combat.

[Elric VIII]

So, basically, a 65 year-old women would be much more optimized for adventuring? Feel free to use that as a base, guys.

I'm saying that: Given a high enough pointbuy and a desire for mental stats over physical, it makes very little difference when compared to a younger adventurer. I personally like the Middle-Aged category even since I played that crotchety old Fighter-turned gish (although it was only about 3 sessions).



That aside, does the aging entry stipulate that you add it before or after buying points in point buy? Just checking.

It's a template, so I assume so.

[Morph Bark]

That aside, does the aging entry stipulate that you add it before or after buying points in point buy? Just checking.

If you made a 1st-level character as an adult, who would then age to venerable, would you apply the aging bonuses before or after point buy?

My point is, nobody starts their life as a venerable-aged creature. Unless really weird scheissballs went down.

[Socratov]

If you made a 1st-level character as an adult, who would then age to venerable, would you apply the aging bonuses before or after point buy?

My point is, nobody starts their life as a venerable-aged creature. Unless really weird scheissballs went down.

only opportunity i can think of for a venerable advernturer is a venerable dragonwrought kobold with a sarrukh as pet...

[Flickerdart]

That aside, does the aging entry stipulate that you add it before or after buying points in point buy? Just checking.
All modifiers (like racial and age) are applied after point buy.

[marcielle]

If you made a 1st-level character as an adult, who would then age to venerable, would you apply the aging bonuses before or after point buy?

My point is, nobody starts their life as a venerable-aged creature. Unless really weird scheissballs went down.

I suspected. Just checking to be sure. After all, this is the system where Dragon Disciples lose their powers the second they master them, drowning can heal you and railguns are made out of people.

[Runestar]

Well, as mentioned above, monks and druids eventually get timeless body...

Dragonwrought kobolds don't suffer the aging penalties either.

Or she could simply have PAO cast on herself to negate the physical aging penalties. :smalltongue:

What lv is she starting at?

[Tectonic Robot]

Well, as mentioned above, monks and druids eventually get timeless body...

Dragonwrought kobolds don't suffer the aging penalties either.

Or she could simply have PAO cast on herself to negate the physical aging penalties. :smalltongue:

What lv is she starting at?

I was assuming a somewhat low level, below level 10 at least.

[Flickerdart]

Or she could simply have PAO cast on herself to negate the physical aging penalties. :smalltongue:

Actually, that's interesting.

Say you're venerable, and you cast PAO on yourself twice, turning you permanently into something neat like a dragon. A few hundred years pass, then someone Disjoins your PAO. Do you revert to your pre-PAO age, or are you slain instantly because you've passed your maximum age?

[Leon]

Cohen is a 80+ Barbarian