Stuff that bugs you

[Venger]

I've played with about half a dozen different groups, a few of whom were rather enamoured of playing lolevulz and chaotic derp, which is fine, it's always nice for a little change of pace. as a result, many of them were interested in playing blackguards and asked me for help building them, since the class is sort of difficult to qualify for. again, this is fine.

however, they all pronounce it "BLACK- gard" instead of "BLAG-erd"

I thought that it was unique to my group, but as I went and played with others, i saw almost everyone did this. obviously it's something of a moot point on the internet since you can mispronounce words with impunity and no one will ever know

it's not a big deal, I just always thought it was kind of odd given the iconic nature of this class.

anyone else have things like this?

[Seerow]

The class's name is spelt Blackguard. So why wouldn't you pronounce it as Black Guard?

To be honest I'd look at you funny for calling it a Blagerd.

[Dazed&Confused]

The class's name is spelt Blackguard. So why wouldn't you pronounce it as Black Guard?

To be honest I'd look at you funny for calling it a Blagerd.

Same. Same again because I needed more words to post.

[Elfinor]

I thought so too, but I looked it up just now and... dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/blackguard) gives the 'blaggard' pronunciation as standard but includes 'black-guard' as an option.

Interesting.

EDIT: Second reference further down seem to support that 'blaggard' is the original/correct pronunciation.

[Curmudgeon]

Since we've got handy dictionaries available online, we can see here (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/blackguard) that both pronunciations are considered acceptable.

It's always good to check before you rant. :smallamused:

[gkathellar]

Edit: Swordsage'd.

Both pronunciations are valid. (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/blackguard?show=0&t=1320943446)

[Venger]

okay, thanks guys. as I attempted to (and apparently failed to) say, it wasn't exactly a "how dare they" moment, more something that I thought was odd. Outside of the game, I'd only heard it pronounced "blag" I'd only heard it pronounced "black" when people were talking about D&D.

[Anderlith]

I say "Blaggard".

I think "blaggard" comes from people mutilating the pronunciation though.

[Darth_Versity]

Erm... It is pronounced Black-Guard. Blaggard is the word used to descripe a person of questionable morals and villanous intent and was actually taken from the word Blackguard. But Blackgueard is still pronounced the same.

Edit: Swordsages everywhere!

[tyckspoon]

Erm... It is pronounced Black-Guard. Blaggard is the word used to descripe a person of questionable morals and villanous intent and was actually taken from the word Blackguard. But Blackgueard is still pronounced the same.

Edit: Swordsages everywhere!

This. 'Black-guard' is the name of the prestige class. 'Blaggard' is the general name/insult/epithet for the kind of person a Blackguard is.

[Elfinor]

Well he's taught me something. I am now a convert to 'blaggard', it sounds more ye olde english:smalltongue:

Expect me to overuse the term over the next couple of weeks.

EDIT: Not that anyone can tell the difference on a forum *facepalm*. Perhaps a sig change is in order?:smallconfused: It'll be abused in meatspace at least:smallbiggrin:

[gkathellar]

okay, thanks guys. as I attempted to (and apparently failed to) say, it wasn't exactly a "how dare they" moment, more something that I thought was odd. Outside of the game, I'd only heard it pronounced "blag" I'd only heard it pronounced "black" when people were talking about D&D.

I suspect that's because it's an uncommon word, and aside from the sorts of people who are often exposed to out-of-use terms and their vaguely Scottish pronunciations, not many people say it. Most gamers who encounter it saw it for the first time in the DMG, so they just pronounce it phonetically.

[Venger]

This. 'Black-guard' is the name of the prestige class. 'Blaggard' is the general name/insult/epithet for the kind of person a Blackguard is.

that's true, that's where they got the name of the prestige class from, since that's the kind of people candidates for it are.



Well he's taught me something. I am now a convert to 'blaggard', it sounds more ye olde english:smalltongue:

Expect me to overuse the term over the next couple of weeks.

EDIT: Not that anyone can tell the difference on a forum *facepalm*. Perhaps a sig change is in order?:smallconfused: It'll be abused in meatspace at least:smallbiggrin:

teehee. glad to hear it. that's one of the reasons I like it, it's still used occasionally amongst english people, at least more than in the states. it's a fun word to (over)use.

yeah, that's one of the problems with it. wow! never inspired anyone's sig before. I feel kinda proud and I'm glad at least that you're confounding your friends on my account :smallbiggrin:


I suspect that's because it's an uncommon word, and aside from the sorts of people who are often exposed to out-of-use terms and their vaguely Scottish pronunciations, not many people say it. Most gamers who encounter it saw it for the first time in the DMG, so they just pronounce it phonetically.

yep, that's me. often exposed to out-of-use terms and their vaguely scottish pronunciations. that's reasonable, it's just one of those words like colonel which is in no way spelled the way it sounds.

[nedz]

Well he's taught me something. I am now a convert to 'blaggard', it sounds more ye olde english:smalltongue:

I don't know about Olde English, but Black Guard is probably Middle English. Through the standard process of contraction the 'ck' would be dropped: just try saying Black Guard quickly.

[Silus]

What bugs me:

When players pronounce the following words wrong.

Druid (they say "Drood")
Tome (they say "Tomb")

Gets on my nerves like mad.

[gkathellar]

Tome (they say "Tomb")

Agreed. I suspect if I ever hear anyone mispronounce it this way in person I'll end up in prison.

[KillianHawkeye]

I have a guy in my group who pronounces Cleric as "clerk" and Drow like it rhymes with "throw."

[Thiyr]

A friend and I have a running joke of words like that, using common ones in quick succession for amusement sake. Guhnomes eating fujytas while reading tear-rot cards, and so on (for those that can't read bad pronunciation, gnomes eating fajitas while reading tarot cards). It's normally longer, but I can't remember most of it.

[Gavinfoxx]

Wasn't there a podcast for wotc where someone asked the wotc designers how to pronounce various D&D words, and they disagreed? That was hilarious...

[Bakkan]

I had a group one time where the DM pronounced Theurge as "thurge." Don't know if he's right or I'm right, but I always pronounced it "thay-urge."

[NamelessNPC]

... and Drow like it rhymes with "throw."

It doesn't!?

[Qwertystop]

I had a group one time where the DM pronounced Theurge as "thurge." Don't know if he's right or I'm right, but I always pronounced it "thay-urge."

I've pronounced it "thee-urge" (long "e" sound, not "thee" as in old/middle english)

[Jeraa]

Its thee-urj. (I believe. theurgy is thee-ur-jee)

[Safety Sword]

It doesn't!?

It's the designation for evil elves who are a bunch of back stabbing bastards.

So clearly it's pronounced dr-owwww :smallamused:

[Calliope121]

I've always pronounced it as Ther-uge

[MesiDoomstalker]

I always pronounced Theurge as "Ther-g." But now I'm wondering where the heck the "u" went in my pronouciation.

[Belril Duskwalk]

We have a player in my group that pronounces dwarf as dorf, much to the frustration of the DM. More than one Dwarf NPC has taken offense and responded by over-charging this PC for goods.

[Diefje]

We have a player in my group that pronounces dwarf as dorf, much to the frustration of the DM. More than one Dwarf NPC has taken offense and responded by over-charging this PC for goods.

I use that as a derogatory term for dorfs. I first heard it in world of warcraft, and used it ever since. I do have the good sense to not always use the derogatory term though, because my DM would totally make NPCs get pissed off.

[TravelLog]

Its thee-urj. (I believe. theurgy is thee-ur-jee)

Apparently, it's "Thee-ur-jee". Pronunciation (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/theurgy).

I had always pronounced it as "Thurgy" like "Eu" from Eulogy.

[Claudius Maximus]

Apparently, it's "Thee-ur-jee". Pronunciation (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/theurgy).

I had always pronounced it as "Thurgy" like "Eu" from Eulogy.

Huh, I've been pronouncing theurge as "the-urge" (with an unvoiced "th"), which usually blends together to sound like "thurge." Apparently, though, it would indeed be correctly pronounced THEE-urge.

θεουργία is pronounced with a short e (ε is always a short "eh" sound, even in Modern Greek with their "ee" fetish) so I don't know when it become long. Must be English being stupid again.

[Big Fau]

When my players forget how to price their magic weapons properly. I always see things like "Collision Greatsword" instead of "+1 Collision Greatsword".


Even worse was the player who thought that Enhancement special abilities applied their + value to attack rolls and damage rolls, resulting in his +1 Flaming Frost Shocking Longsword dealing 1d8+3d6+4+Str and granting him a +4 bonus to attack rolls. That took a while to explain away.

[Qwertystop]

Sometimes people price things by the base price of each enchantment individually.

[Big Fau]

Sometimes people price things by the base price of each enchantment individually.

I actually house ruled that in, and then deleted any mention of the +6 or higher values. My melee players loved me for it.

[Hiro Protagonest]

and then deleted any mention of the +6 or higher values.

What? :smallconfused:

[MlleRouge]

I once gamed with someone who pronounced things 'creatively' so often that the rest of us eventually came to the conclusion that he did it intentionally to seem quirky. My personal favorite was 'Arthas' (from world of warcraft) becoming 'Arth-ASS', with a noticeable pause.


D&D-wise, I recall he pronounced Mordenkainen a few ways before he settled on 'More-den-KAY-nen'. I don't know if that was right or not, since I eventually stopped caring.

Also, I second the tome/tomb thing. Mumble mumble.

[The Underlord]

One thing that bothers me is people who can't deal with alternate pronunciations :smalltongue:

Also rouge=/=rogue

[lord pringle]

It's rogue not rouge and guard not gard or gaurd. This one guy I knew pronounced rogue Roe-goo.

[graeylin]

I pronounce swordsage as "ted".

I am the only one I know who does that.

anyone else? Bueller?

[Big Fau]

What? :smallconfused:

Fact: There isn't a pre-Epic weapon enhancement that has a + value higher than 5. So why list the prices for a +6 enhancement if they don't exist.


Of course, that was using that house rule (where a player could pimp his weapon without using cumulative pricing).

[Victoria]

Fact: There isn't a pre-Epic weapon enhancement that has a + value higher than 5. So why list the prices for a +6 enhancement if they don't exist.



Because by the RAW, a +5 flaming longsword is equivalent in value to a +6 longsword.

[Big Fau]

Because by the RAW, a +5 flaming longsword is equivalent in value to a +6 longsword.

I am aware of the RAW. The house rule I implemented ignored that rule, similar to how people occasionally misread that rule. Thus a +1 Flaming Longsword in that campaign only cost 4K, rather than 8K.

[Victoria]

I am aware of the RAW. The house rule I implemented ignored that rule, similar to how people occasionally misread that rule. Thus a +1 Flaming Longsword in that campaign only cost 4K, rather than 8K.

I'm aware of your house rule. You asked why list prices for a +6 weapon if they don't exist. A +5 flaming longsword (a non-epic weapon) has a price equivalent of a +6 weapon according to that table, hence, it is listed.

Whether that's the same price as an actual +6 weapon, I don't know, since the last time I tried to open the Epic Level Handbook, it burned my eyes.

I now have a -2 to all Spot checks unless wearing my corrective lenses.

[MesiDoomstalker]

I'm aware of your house rule. You asked why list prices for a +6 weapon if they don't exist. A +5 flaming longsword (a non-epic weapon) has a price equivalent of a +6 weapon according to that table, hence, it is listed.

Whether that's the same price as an actual +6 weapon, I don't know, since the last time I tried to open the Epic Level Handbook, it burned my eyes.

I now have a -2 to all Spot checks unless wearing my corrective lenses.

He's talking about his game with the houserule in effect. Pre-epic, nothing will hit +6 equivalent so no need to price it. Its still published they just ignore it.

[Big Fau]

He's talking about his game with the houserule in effect. Pre-epic, nothing will hit +6 equivalent so no need to price it. Its still published they just ignore it.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Victoria]

He's talking about his game with the houserule in effect. Pre-epic, nothing will hit +6 equivalent so no need to price it. Its still published they just ignore it.

I must have been misusing the rules for the last seven years then. So a weapon cannot have higher than a +5 equivalent bonus without being epic, such as the +5 flaming longsword example I've been talking about in this thread?

[MesiDoomstalker]

I must have been misusing the rules for the last seven years then. So a weapon cannot have higher than a +5 equivalent bonus without being epic, such as the +5 flaming longsword example I've been talking about in this thread?

Raw you can. By Big Fau's houserules, yes. The difference is the price. In Big Fau's games, +6 equvalent does not exist pre-epic. Thus, the part of the table labled +6 through +10 are not neccessary and are ignored. That was what Big Fau was saying. Your assuming mine and Big Fau's statments are by RAW and they are not.

@Big Fau: Thank you and your welcome. Not sure which to say so I'll say both.

EDIT: Also what Qwertystop said.

[Qwertystop]

I must have been misusing the rules for the last seven years then. So a weapon cannot have higher than a +5 equivalent bonus without being epic, such as the +5 flaming longsword example I've been talking about in this thread?

No, no, no.
The enhancement bonus (the flat +X to attack and damage) cannot exceed +5. The total of enhancement bonus and enchantments can go up to +10. The houserule was that each enchantment was priced individually, then the prices were added. Since there is no enchantment or enhancement bonus pre-epic higher than +5, they ignored the bit of the pricing table from +6 to +10.

[Slipperychicken]

...pronounces... Drow like it rhymes with "throw."

My DM does this. A Drow is joining the party. And our next campaign is in the Underdark. My next character might be a PF Noble Drow.

[Hiro Protagonest]

No, no, no.
The enhancement bonus (the flat +X to attack and damage) cannot exceed +6. The total of enhancement bonus and enchantments can go up to +10. The houserule was that each enchantment was priced individually, then the prices were added. Since there is no enchantment or enhancement bonus pre-epic higher than +5, they ignored the bit of the pricing table from +6 to +10.

The pure enhancement bonus can't exceed +5. :smallconfused:

Except, AFAIK, this doesn't apply in epic.

[Qwertystop]

The pure enhancement bonus can't exceed +5. :smallconfused:
:smallredface:
That's what I said.
:smallbiggrin:

[Victoria]

No, no, no.
The enhancement bonus (the flat +X to attack and damage) cannot exceed +6. The total of enhancement bonus and enchantments can go up to +10. The houserule was that each enchantment was priced individually, then the prices were added. Since there is no enchantment or enhancement bonus pre-epic higher than +5, they ignored the bit of the pricing table from +6 to +10.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding his question then? Is he not saying that there's no point to list the prices for weapons that are higher than a +5 equivalent because they're not possible, even though they are? Is he asking the DMG to throw those parts of the table out because of his house rules? I don't get it.

I'm completely lost right now...

[Qwertystop]

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding his question then? Is he not saying that there's no point to list the prices for weapons that are higher than a +5 equivalent because they're not possible, even though they are? Is he asking the DMG to throw those parts of the table out because of his house rules? I don't get it.

I'm completely lost right now...

As I understand it, he's saying that they're not possible under his houserule, so his group ignores that section of the list (being unnecessary). Without the houserule, they are possible and said section would be used.

[Victoria]

As I understand it, he's saying that they're not possible under his houserule, so his group ignores that section of the list (being unnecessary). Without the houserule, they are possible and said section would be used.

Well, his exact words were "why list them if they don't exist" even though they do by the RAW, as if the DMG should magically delete that entry from its pages when his house rule is in effect. That's what's confusing me.

[Howler Dagger]

Since when does drow not ryhme with throw?

[MesiDoomstalker]

Well, his exact words were "why list them if they don't exist" even though they do by the RAW, as if the DMG should magically delete that entry from its pages when his house rule is in effect. That's what's confusing me.

He wasn't being serious. He didn't mean that since his houserule they don't exist, that the DMG should be reprinted to reflect his rules. He is saying that his group does not need the section of the table. They ignore it. Literal meaning is misleading. Don't alwasy assume that some one is speaking directly in a literal sense. Nuances are great when you pick up on them.

[The Underlord]

The +6 and higher weapon prices are there to determine prices for say a +5 magic weapon with an enchantment that costes say the equvialent of +2(So total price of +7). Just my .02.

[Victoria]

Nuances are great when you pick up on them.

This is why I tend to play martial characters with low Charisma scores.

Anyway, back on topic, my little sister always ended up playing like her character was chaotic neutral, no matter what she wrote her alignment as on her character sheet. It got to me after a while.

[Hiro Protagonest]

This is why I tend to play martial characters with low Charisma scores.

Anyway, back on topic, my little sister always ended up playing like her character was chaotic neutral, no matter what she wrote her alignment as on her character sheet. It got to me after a while.

And by chaotic neutral you mean "might save your life, might steal your car".

[Vortling]

Since when does drow not ryhme with throw?

Since it rhymes with cow.

[Jeraa]

Since when does drow not ryhme with throw?

Every D&D video game I've played that has drow in it rhymes it with cow. Frank Mentzer rhymed it with throw. Reportadely, Gygax did too, but I seen it said he pronounced it like cow as well. Some other early designers pronounced it like cow.

The Wrath of the Dragon God movie has it pronounced like cow.

I believe WotC said it rhymes with cow, however.

And how do you pronounce drowsy? Just remove the "sy". Of course, that doesn't mean anything. English is also the language that as "ghoti" can be pronounced the same as "fish". (gh as in tough, o as in women, ti as in nation.)

[Big Fau]

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding his question then? Is he not saying that there's no point to list the prices for weapons that are higher than a +5 equivalent because they're not possible, even though they are? Is he asking the DMG to throw those parts of the table out because of his house rules? I don't get it.

I'm completely lost right now...

It's still possible to have a +2 Holy Unholy Axiomatic Anarchic weapon (effectively a +10 weapon), but the price you would pay for that is 10,000gp, not 200,000gp.

[Vortling]

Since when does drow not ryhme with throw?

Since it rhymes with cow.

[huttj509]

Dude, Drow is pronounced like bow, it's obvious.

:smallbiggrin:

[MesiDoomstalker]

It's still possible to have a +2 Holy Unholy Axiomatic Anarchic weapon (effectively a +10 weapon), but the price you would pay for that is 10,000gp, not 200,000gp.

Well actually 40,000gp. +2 costs 8,000gp unless you changed that too. Not to mention it deals 2-4 negative levels to any weilder depending on how neutral the weilder is.

[Big Fau]

Well actually 40,000gp. +2 costs 8,000gp unless you changed that too. Not to mention it deals 2-4 negative levels to any weilder depending on how neutral the weilder is.

Ok, my memory was off. It's late for me anyway.

[Venger]

Well actually 40,000gp. +2 costs 8,000gp unless you changed that too. Not to mention it deals 2-4 negative levels to any weilder depending on how neutral the weilder is.

just be undead, it solves like 90% of the problems in this game

[JaronK]

Stuff that annoys me:

Swashbucklers aren't proficient with Bucklers.

Spellthieves. Great concept, but they just don't work.

Same with all the various Ninja classes. I can make it work with multiclassing, but there's no single Ninja class that actually does the job (Unarmed Swordsage gets closest, but doesn't have the right class skills or trapfinding).

DMs who think the most fun thing in the world is to make your character suck. At one point I told a guy I would like to play a sneak attack heavy character, like a TWF Rogue with dips into Rokugan Ninja and Sneak Attack Fighter. He said "perfect, that would be great for my game, because it's going to be heavy on undead." And no, he wasn't going to have undead sneak attack options available.

DMs who destroy whatever you create. I made a Necromancer for one such DM, who thought it was hilarious that every encounter was set up to destroy any undead I had, and barely gave me any Onyxs to make up for this. He thought by destroying my stuff he was proving that encounters were hard (but if I had no minions, no one ever died). Then every time we started to build a fortress (it was a location based game where we were in the same areas a lot) a mysterious invasion would instantly destroy it.

Much of the Rules Compendium. I'm sorry, but it was REALLY poorly written sometimes, and it should have been a free Errata anyway.

Players who refuse to make characters appropriate to the campaign. I told one group this was going to be a low magic heroic fantasy game, so they should make relatively realistic non magic fighty types. Result? One of them decided she only wanted to play a dinosaur.

The fact that there's no duration listed on the Dread Necromancer's fear aura (you have to extrapolate it from the Lich entry).

Poorly thought out "balancing" house rules that end up nerfing weak classes and strengthening strong ones ("We nerfed Monks because they have so many abilities, and buffed Sorcerers because they have none!").

Players who think "roleplaying" means "playing an insane idiot who has no concept of the danger he's in."

Players who think Evil means yelling Muhahaha and destroying everything around them, even stuff that's valuable to them. Backstabbing your party in the middle of a fight against random enemies isn't evil, it's just stupid.

Railroading.

Really interesting games that end after two sessions and then I have to take over as DM instead of playing (ugh).

The overall dependence on loot instead of the power of the individual characters.

JaronK