Best 2 Druid Spells at Each Level

[isotunknown]

We've been having some debate in my group about spells and ended up arguing about the best two spells at each level. I agreed to come back with a list of druid spells. Here's my list so far. What do you think?

0. Create Water, Detect Magic
1. Entangle, Produce Flame
2. Kelpstrand, Blinding Spittle
3. Venomfire, Spiritjaws
4. Friendly Fire, Enhance Wild Shape
5. Owl's Insight, Control Winds/Animal Growth (I can't decide.)
6. Bite of the Werebear, Energy Immunity/Superior Resistance (I can't decide.)
7. Master Earth, Heal
8. Frostfell, Bombardment
9. Shapechange, Nature's Avatar

[Psyren]

Needs more Bone Talisman (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20040721a)

[Akal Saris]

Looks like a spot-on list so far! What books are Bombardment and Friendly Fire from?

Some other possible contenders:

L4
Boreal Wind (Frostburn): It's a cone of cold that deals 1d4/level and also knocks people back like a gust of wind, but it's 1 level lower than cone of cold, and it lasts for rounds/level.

L6
Entomb (Frostburn): 1 creature/level makes a fortitude save: success means that creature takes 6d6 damage, failure means they are frozen in place and immobile, and take 2d12 dmg and 1 con dmg/round, and escape after the 1st round is only possible through verbal/mental actions, a DC 20 Str check, or somebody else using fire damage. It's like mass hold monster + damage.

Mudslide (Stormwrack): A 40-ft spread gets hit by a muddy avalanche with no SR, and if they fail a Reflex save they take 8d6 and are suffocating and are trapped inside the mud. Combined with Transmute Mud to Rock, and it's either an instant death sentence or your opponents are trapped up to their knees in solid rock. And it has utility as well: you can use it to make difficult terrain that lasts for several days, if you're preparing for a battle.

[nedz]

It depends what you want to do with your Druid.
The sequence Shillaleaugh/Brambles/Entangling Staff is pretty good certainly when you are starting out.
I'm not seeing Ice Storm - largeish area, some damage and concealment for a round. Invaluable for meeting engagements especially if you are about to be ambushed. Sleet storm is its baby brother.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Forget Control Winds and Animal Growth, put Call Avalanche (Frostburn) on the 5th level list.

[legomaster00156]

Entangle is a ridiculously powerful level 1 crowd-control spell. 20' save-or-entangle for 1 minute/level? Seriously? :smallmad:

[Tenno Seremel]

0. Detect magic, Detect poison
1. Endure elements, Speak with animals
2. Fog cloud, Spider climb
3. Neutralize poison, Remove disease
4. Air Walk, Scrying
5. Awaken, Baleful polymorph
6. Greater dispel magic, Transport via plants
7. Creeping doom, Heal
8. Finger of death, Word of recall
9. Antipathy, Regenerate

For some values of "best" :}

[Godskook]

Shillelagh > Produce Flame, by an amount to high to be worth elaborating on. Not sure if it makes the top 2, but it definitely knocks Produce Flame out of the running early.

Entangle is pretty much the definitive go-to 1st level "Druids are broken" spell, so if it isn't top 2 material, I'd really, really hate to see what *IS* top 2 material.

[Feytalist]

This is a nice list for any who wish to play a Spirit Shaman. They get a criminally small "spells retrieved per day" list.

[The_Snark]

Looks like a spot-on list so far! What books are Bombardment and Friendly Fire from?

The Spell Compendium and Exemplars of Evil, respectively. Bombardment is a damaging spell that also buries anyone who fails their save; Friendly Fire is a lovely little spell that can ruin any ranged attacker's day by allowing you to redirect ranged attacks to a new target. (This includes ranged touch attacks; wizards who like to toss out Twinned Empowered Split Ray'ed Enervation spells are in for a very nasty surprise.)

More spells:

Moon Bolt is a 4th-level spell that deals a respectable amount of Strength damage (half on a save); toss on some metamagic feats and it becomes brutal, crippling enemies who rely on Strength and paralyzing the ones that don't.

Last Breath (also 4th level) is a good spell to have on hand; if you're quick, you can spare an unlucky party member the pain of level loss from Raise Dead, and it's much cheaper than True Resurrection. (Carries all the same drawbacks that Reincarnate does, though.)

Sleet Storm has been mentioned but bears mentioning again, because it's often overlooked. Blocks sight and impedes movement, which means it's good against both ranged and melee enemies at a distance.

Updraft is nice for a level 1 spell; anything resembling flight is tough to come by, and this lets gives you an upward-and-sideways boost as a swift action. Handy.

I'm also fond of Spike Growth and Spike Stones, but the fact that they only work in specific environments makes them a bit less useful.

[LordBlades]

I'd also rate Snake's Swiftness higher than Produce Flame tbh. Moreso if you have a dedicated melee in your party (like a charger).

[docnessuno]

1 Vigor, lesser / Faerie fire
2 Blinding spittle / Restoration, lesser (Honorable mention: Snake swiftness, mass)
3 Resist energy, mass / Girallon's blessing
4 Summon nature's ally / Moon bolt (Honorable mention: Freedom of movement and Arc of lightning)
5 Rejuvination coccoon / Summon nature's ally (Honorable mention: Rejuvination coccoon and Rejuvination coccoon, then Rejuvination coccoon)
6 Dispel magic, greater / Tortoise shell (Honorable mention: Energy immunity)
7 Brilliant blade / Word of balance
8 Reverse Gravity / Summon nature's ally
9 Shapechange / Nature's Avatar

[Cieyrin]

There's a distinct lack of Master Air in here. We should probably change that. :smallwink:

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Come to think of it, Snowsight (1st) and Obscuring Snow (2nd) from Frostburn should definitely be on your list. Make the rest of your party each chip in 2k gp for a 1st level Pearl of Power and to go in thirds for Lesser Rods of Extend so you can put Snowsight on everyone, and you and any Cleric or Wizard in the party can have Snowsight cast during an adventure and it puts nearly everything you encounter at a severe disadvantage.

[NeoSeraphi]

Isn't summon elemental monolith a druid spell? Or is a monolith just worse than an animal who's been supercharged by nature's avatar?

[Draz74]

More nominations:

Panacea (SpC)

Heart of Earth/Heart of Air/Heart of Fire/Heart of Water (CM)

Mass Snake's Swiftness (SpC)

Not sure any of these should make the Top 2's list, but they're all quite good.

[Gnaeus]

This is a nice list for any who wish to play a Spirit Shaman. They get a criminally small "spells retrieved per day" list.

Except that the good spells for a druid often suck for a spirit shaman. Venomfire and Enhance Wildshape clearly, but even the awesome Bite of the WereX line often isn't worth it for a SS. And the Heart of X line just mentioned by Draz also can't typically make the cut when you have to spend a whole spell retrieved on it.

[isotunknown]

Sorry for being so late to respond here. I'm glad to see such a wealth of opinion out there.

Here are some of my thoughts.

@Psyren: I love Bone Talisman. It's a great spell. Would you say it was better than Blind Spittle? I think Kelpstrand is the bomb for virtually anything you face that doesn't have Freedom of Movement. 2nd level has a lot of good spells: it's tough.

@Akal_Saris: The_Snark gave the right cites for those spells. Friendly Fire is always useful. There might be better spells than Bombardment, but I've found it useful.

@nedz: I agree about the club-line as good for starting out. But I don't think it lasts. It's why I thought Flame Strike was good, as an alternative. But I can see that others are poo-pooing that choice.

@Biffoniacus_Furiou: Can you spell out for me why Call Avalanche is superior to Control Winds? I'm not saying that you're wrong; I'm saying I want to understand why you're right. Also, is the Snowsight track really that good?

@legomaster00156: You're certainly right about Entangle. That's why it's on the list. Very powerful.

@Tenno Seremel: Nothing wrong with that list. As you suggest, it's really the type of druid you like to play. I like many of the spells you list. Thanks for sharing that.

@ Godskook: So, over time, do you really think Shillelagh is better? Another spell I considered was Impeding Stones, which is like entangle but for worked stone and streets, etc. from Cityscape. Perhaps it's better than both Shillelagh and Produce Flame. I'm not sure what should go in the second slot at first level.

@The_Snark: Excellent suggestions. Do you prefer Moon Bolt over Langour. If so, why? I admit that I'd trade out Enhance Wild Shape because the Exalted Wild Shape feat is another way to get much of what I like out of that spell. Fourth level has SO many good spells as others have mentioned as well.

@ LordBlades: That's a solid suggestion. I like the idea of the boost it gives. It's even better as Mass, but I didn't think it was better than it's counterparts at that level. I think it is definitely better than Flame Strike.

@ docnessuno: a great list. I think I'd leave off the SNA spells as any spell you select can be substituted for one of them, but I take your point.

@ NeoSeraphi: That's a good question. If the Monolith is that much better, you may be right about dropping Nature's Avatar.

@ Draz74: I agree that those are great spells.

[Gnaeus]

@The_Snark: Excellent suggestions. Do you prefer Moon Bolt over Langour. If so, why? I admit that I'd trade out Enhance Wild Shape because the Exalted Wild Shape feat is another way to get much of what I like out of that spell. Fourth level has SO many good spells as others have mentioned as well. .

I totally do.

1. Long range versus short range. For a level 10 caster, thats the difference between engaging at 50 feet and 800 feet.

2. It auto-hits. No ray deflection. No high touch AC.

3. It couples well with metamagic. A sudden maximize or a rod of maximize, for example, makes it "take 20 strength damage, save for half". Big monsters are massively nerfed, casters can be dropped.

4. It can hit multiple adjacent targets. Like a rider on a flying mount. You fail your save, you suck. Your mount fails his save, you fall.

My Spirit Shaman packs Moon Bolt for most days, Languor if I know I will be in a tight dungeon, and that is even after my DM nerfed moon bolt.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

@Biffoniacus_Furiou: Can you spell out for me why Call Avalanche is superior to Control Winds? I'm not saying that you're wrong; I'm saying I want to understand why you're right. Also, is the Snowsight track really that good?

Call Avalanche is great, it covers a really big area, sinks ships (with 500 pounds of snow per 5-ft. square), knocks flying creatures out of the sky, and though it's not stated it should deal structural damage to any buildings you drop it on. The buried-in-snow condition it inflicts is an extremely effective crowd control at any level for all but the strongest opponents, or those who can teleport or burrow. There are plenty of creative things you can do with a huge volume of snow, as well.

Obscuring Snow is a 30-ft. radius no-save-you're-blind that lasts an hour per level and follows you around. It's on the default Sorcerer/Wizard, Cleric, and Druid spell lists, so multiple characters can have it active to cover an entire encounter. Wind and fire can disperse it, but unless there's a large enough wind/fire effect to get rid of its entire area, the spell's effect will persist and thus refill any holes by the following round. Opponents can't see anything that's not adjacent to them, so it cancels reach, ranged attacks, targeted spells, charging, and even knowledge of where a given opponent is standing or even how many opponents are present. It's an unfair tactical advantage for the PCs against nearly every opponent they'll ever encounter. That Snowsight will so easily grant the entire party immunity to its effect is just as important as Obscuring Snow itself.

[Draz74]

I think Kelpstrand is the bomb for virtually anything you face that doesn't have Freedom of Movement.

Yes! I don't know why the Druid Handbook merely gives this spell a passing mention. It's incredible.

[Lateral]

I don't really think that Heal warrants a mention as it is on the Druid list. As a 6th level spell on the Cleric list, sure, it's pretty damn good, but there are better 7th level Druid spells.

[isotunknown]

I don't really think that Heal warrants a mention as it is on the Druid list. As a 6th level spell on the Cleric list, sure, it's pretty damn good, but there are better 7th level Druid spells.

What would you recommend?

[Midnight_v]

Murderous Mist (Spell) - It blinds on a failed Reflex save and does minimal damage; it effects a 30ft. radius area and moves away from the caster. Some nice battlefield control possibilities. (Thanks, Omen of Peace)

This spell blinding on a failed reflex save is awesome. It really lets you have your pick of dismantling, reflex being the save that it is rarest to find a save or suck(die), so it's certainly nice to have in your aresenal.

[Lateral]

What would you recommend?

Not sure; I haven't taken a critical look at the Druid spell list. Elemental Fury, from the SpC, is pretty cool, though- it's long-range and has a pretty good radius, so it's pretty good long-range battlefield control.

[Draz74]

I don't really think that Heal warrants a mention as it is on the Druid list. As a 5th level spell on the Cleric Adept/Archivist list, sure, it's pretty damn good, but there are better 7th level Druid spells.

Fixed that for you. :smallsmile:

[DeAnno]

The sheer obnoxiousness of Flashflood (8th; Sandstorm) should probably merit it consideration, as it can be useful both on the tactical and strategic level.

[The_Snark]

@The_Snark: Excellent suggestions. Do you prefer Moon Bolt over Langour. If so, why? I admit that I'd trade out Enhance Wild Shape because the Exalted Wild Shape feat is another way to get much of what I like out of that spell. Fourth level has SO many good spells as others have mentioned as well.

I think so, yes. Languor is a nice spell, but Moon Bolt is capable of hitting multiple targets, does more on a failed save, and can reduce enemies to 0 Strength. (Languor's slowing effect is nice but better left to sorcerers and wizards, who can do it to lots of people at once with Slow or take away the saving throw with Ray of Dizziness.)

Flashflood falls in the same category as Earthquake, I think—lots of potential uses, but not great in every situation. (Though Earthquake is actually really good for action denial, if your party can fly and your enemies can't.)

I don't think Summon Elemental Monolith is a great spell; elemental monoliths are powerful, yes, but the spell requires you to maintain concentration. If you have some way to keep the spell going without taking up your actions (like being a spirit shaman or taking the Extraordinary Concentration feat) it's better. (You can always use Nature's Avatar and Nature's favor to buff your animal companion rather than your summoned creatures.)

Moving on to spells that don't quite make a top-2 list but are nonetheless worthwhile...

I've always liked Phantom Stag. It's sort of a druid version of Phantom Steed, but it's tougher, faster and includes some high-level perks (like at-will Etherealness!). A handy travel spell.

Aura of Vitality bears mentioning because it's the only way I know of to get morale bonuses to Strength, Dexterity and Constitution. If you're trying to stack all the buffs you can on your allies, it's a good one, though its short duration and high level keep it from being a no-brainer.

Listening Lorecall is a good way to get blindsense/blindsight without much effort, though I wouldn't place it above Kelpstrand or Blinding Spittle because those two are both awesome.

[Godskook]

@ Godskook: So, over time, do you really think Shillelagh is better? Another spell I considered was Impeding Stones, which is like entangle but for worked stone and streets, etc. from Cityscape. Perhaps it's better than both Shillelagh and Produce Flame. I'm not sure what should go in the second slot at first level.

There's two ways I can take "over time". Do you mean over various levels, or do you mean over the course of a day?

In the former case, Shillelagh's strength is only for the first few levels, before you can readily afford magic gear, and possibly for as long as a +1 weapon is the best you're going to do anyway.

In the latter, the spell last longer, has no 'charges', and deals more dice of damage per attack(If your DM allows a greatclub to be a valid target, 3d8+1 is going to be hard to beat).

[isotunknown]

Call Avalanche is great, it covers a really big area, sinks ships (with 500 pounds of snow per 5-ft. square), knocks flying creatures out of the sky, and though it's not stated it should deal structural damage to any buildings you drop it on. The buried-in-snow condition it inflicts is an extremely effective crowd control at any level for all but the strongest opponents, or those who can teleport or burrow. There are plenty of creative things you can do with a huge volume of snow, as well.


This looks great to me. I am just wondering if it's better than Control Winds? Control winds can wreck cities, destroy armies, operate underground--I believe--thwart armadas, etc. They are both really powerful. Which is better? Or am I splitting hairs?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

This looks great to me. I am just wondering if it's better than Control Winds? Control winds can wreck cities, destroy armies, operate underground--I believe--thwart armadas, etc. They are both really powerful. Which is better? Or am I splitting hairs?

There will be situations in which one is better than the other.

All the things you've listed except working underground--wreck cities, destroy armies, and thwart armadas, can be accomplished by Call Avalanche, and at ten times the range at that. With Control Winds the range is equal to the area, so you're right at the edge of the effect (or inside it) whenever you cast it. Since it's wind, that wind needs to come from somewhere and go somewhere, so if you're in a cave you'll be swept away as well. Granted you could cast Stormrage first, but that doesn't help the rest of your party. For use against cities, armies, and armadas, you have to get right next to where you're casting Control Winds, but with Call Avalanche you can be +400 ft. further away from the target location.

[Godskook]

With Control Winds the range is equal to the area, so you're right at the edge of the effect (or inside it) whenever you cast it. Since it's wind, that wind needs to come from somewhere and go somewhere, so if you're in a cave you'll be swept away as well. Granted you could cast Stormrage first, but that doesn't help the rest of your party.

Um, it says:


you may choose to limit the area to any cylindrical area less than your full limit.

So, given the party is normally together, I think it'll be easy enough to avoid casting it on them by default or accident(Circumstance might still force your hand though, given the strict cylindrical limit).

[isotunknown]

I'm now starting to think Red Tide over Bombardment.

[docnessuno]

Expanding on my list, i really think the best druid spells overall are:

Potential game-breaker (outside high-op games):
SNA, shapechange, Moonbolt, Tortoise shell, Brilliant blade, Word of balance.

Non game-breaker:
Vigor lesser, Rejuvination coccoon, Resist energy mass, Dispel magic greater Restoration lesser.

[ShriekingDrake]

Expanding on my list, i really think the best druid spells overall are:

Potential game-breaker (outside high-op games):
SNA, shapechange, Moonbolt, Tortoise shell, Brilliant blade, Word of balance.

Non game-breaker:
Vigor lesser, Rejuvination coccoon, Resist energy mass, Dispel magic greater Restoration lesser.

Tortoise Shell, really???

[Human Paragon 3]

I actually used Phantom Stag in Test of Spite and cleaned house with it. It is a great, great spell. Druid has Ride as a class kill. Take advantage of it!

[docnessuno]

Tortoise Shell, really???
Err, after re-reading that i'll switch it to the "good but not crazy" spell
Seems i used it wrong all along (probably got it from an old/outdated source) and used it as giving improved cover (+8 to AC stacking with almost everything, +4 to reflex saves, improved evasion), this was the basis for some rather insane ACs at mid level (and without even optimizing for that)

[ShriekingDrake]

Err, after re-reading that i'll switch it to the "good but not crazy" spell
Seems i used it wrong all along (probably got it from an old/outdated source) and used it as giving improved cover (+8 to AC stacking with almost everything, +4 to reflex saves, improved evasion), this was the basis for some rather insane ACs at mid level (and without even optimizing for that)

That explains it. I thought I must have been missing something. Thanks for setting the record straight.

[Campbellk8105]

Use in this order-
Level 8: Flashflood + Frostfell :D
Level 5: Call Avalanche
Level 3: Control Temperature

Sure it's 1 round casting time each but, I believe it would be well worth it.


Is it a bit chilly or is it just me?

[isotunknown]

Use in this order-
Level 8: Flashflood + Frostfell :D
Level 5: Call Avalanche
Level 3: Control Temperature

Sure it's 1 round casting time each but, I believe it would be well worth it.


Is it a bit chilly or is it just me?

That's a whole lot of cold. Do you think it's worth prioritizing all four of those spells to do it? I'm just not sure that Frostfell needs all that back up. I think I can see Call Avalanche replacing Control Winds, though it's still not clear to me that I would do that. Frostfell is clearly a bomb at 8th level, at least in my book

[Campbellk8105]

That's a whole lot of cold. Do you think it's worth prioritizing all four of those spells to do it? I'm just not sure that Frostfell needs all that back up. I think I can see Call Avalanche replacing Control Winds, though it's still not clear to me that I would do that. Frostfell is clearly a bomb at 8th level, at least in my book


The only reason I said Frostfell is simply that all the water from flashflood, (100,000 cubic feet), is all frozen now, along with anyone and anything in it. Not only are you frozen is that much water, but Avalanche buries you in snow automatically since your held in place. That's 500lbs of snow per 5ft square. Control temperature lowers the temperature another 3-4 steps depending on you level, Frostfell lowered it 3 steps. Everything in that area is now frozen in ice, buried in snow, it's a blizzard going on top of them, and the temperature is Unearthly Cold at less than -50 Fahrenheit. If someone did not get buried and their Ally comes to dig them out, use Control Temperature again to raise the temperature this time, and unfreeze all the ice and snow for an even bigger flashflood.

[elvengunner69]

Magic Stone is fun for lvl 1!

[isotunknown]

Magic Stone is fun for lvl 1!

Not a bad spell. But probably not one of the top two, at least for me.