The best way to counter a fire mage enemy.

[Morithias]

My DM is forcing me to take leadership to start a spy ring in one of his campaigns. So far the plot is that there's two clans, an ice clan and a fire clan and a rogue member of the fire clan seems to be the primary enemies for now.

The DM is a horrible munchkin and has no sense of max/mining mages or any of the gamebreaker stuff.

So what's the best counter for what is likely evokers specializing in fire magic. I know about Mantle of the Firey soul (which I plan to give my main character). But I need something that's more about killing them rather than just being able to defend.

So far we have a changling rogue (me), a wild shape ranger, and an ice mage in our party.

So what would make a good cohort to counter and kill the fire mages without becoming redundant.

[Diefje]

Barbarian with the Blazing Berserker feat (Sandstorm)? Though I guess he'd make a terrible spy, it's still fun to have a musclehead to carry your stuff and flank with you.

[Glimbur]

Clerics make decent counters to mages, they get spells like resist energy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/resistEnergy.htm), access to healing spells for post-combat, Shield Other (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shieldOther.htm), and Dispel Magic(look in to the Inquisition Domain and Divine Defiance from Fiendish Codex 2 to counterspell better). They also have party-wide buffs like Prayer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/prayer.htm), bless, and many more spells. They're a core caster, which means they get goodies in almost every splatbook. And they know every spell on their list, so even a cleric built specifically to counter fire can change rather dramatically in a day.

[Fax Celestis]

Elemental body into a fire elemental. You now have the Fire subtype and are immune to fire. Primal form does it way sooner, but it's not as good. Still, if your cohort is a druid or wizard, he can cast it.

[Gotterdammerung]

The best defensive stuff is probably too broke to use.

like antifire sphere out of sandstorm for instance.


I would make a incarnate or a totemist cohort.
Get flame cinture and bind it to your waist. (either through incarnate or through a feat.)

It becomes both defensive and offensive.

by max level you should be able to get around ER 45 fire with it for your cohort.

But more importantly, you can dump all the fire it absorbed in the round onto 1 guy as a swift action (reflex for half).

That means if your fighting like 6 fire mages. And they each hit your cohort with average damage fireballs. He takes no damage and one of them gets blasted with 210ish fire damage (reflex for half). And then proceed to take the rest of his turn and do any number of things.

This free action fire dump can be taken every round and each time dumps the total fire damage prevented by the soulmelds ER from the previous round.

So essentially it is sort of a Natsu type from Fairy Tail. A Fire Eater.

[HunterOfJello]

Monk 2/Rogue 2/Swordsage X

Give the character Evasion along with that Spell Reflection ACF, a high reflex save, and all the awesome stuff that swordsages get like ice damage attacks and fire resistance from tumble ranks.

[The_Jackal]

If you're just expecting fire-based mailmen, summoner druid. Summon a mob of flyers, next round drop communal resist energy, proceed to watch and laugh as the enemy gets pecked to death.

[Morithias]

Monk 2/Rogue 2/Swordsage X

Give the character Evasion along with that Spell Reflection ACF, a high reflex save, and all the awesome stuff that swordsages get like ice damage attacks and fire resistance from tumble ranks.

Spell Reflection ACF?

Thanks for all the answers people! These are some really good ideas!

[Chess435]

Water. The surface blocks LoE for fire spells, and they have to make a check to cast when in it. Basically do this:

1. Decanter of endless water
2. Water Breathing + Freedom of Movement
3. ????
4. Profit!

[Doc Roc]

Monk 2/Rogue 2/Swordsage X

Give the character Evasion along with that Spell Reflection ACF, a high reflex save, and all the awesome stuff that swordsages get like ice damage attacks and fire resistance from tumble ranks.

This is a trap, do not do this.

Look, you want to brutally annihilate a fire mage? You want to do it with style? Let's destroy the Elemental Plane of Fire. Kill the body and the head will die!

Alternatively, if you're interested, I can lay you out a really cool psionic sneak build.

[Zaq]

Elemental body into a fire elemental. You now have the Fire subtype and are immune to fire. Primal form does it way sooner, but it's not as good. Still, if your cohort is a druid or wizard, he can cast it.

So you're saying that you should fight fire with [Fire]?

[TroubleBrewing]

So you're saying that you should fight fire with [Fire]?

Unlike in Pokemon, [Cold] is not super effective against fire.

[Tenno Seremel]

CPsi has Energy nullification field (level 6 power) that works like anti-magic field vs powers of the chosen energy descriptor (cold, electricity, fire or sonic). You can augment it to increase area of effect.

EDIT: unfortunately ice is not super-effective vs fire in Pokemon too.

[TroubleBrewing]

EDIT: unfortunately ice is not super-effective vs fire in Pokemon too.

Welp, that's my daily Poke-FAIL then. How embarrassing.

[AmberVael]

CPsi has Energy nullification field (level 6 power) that works like anti-magic field vs powers of the chosen energy descriptor (cold, electricity, fire or sonic). You can augment it to increase area of effect.

EDIT: unfortunately ice is not super-effective vs fire in Pokemon too.

Psionic characters have a fair number of interesting options when it comes to using energy effects, and fighting energy effects.

Like a power that can be an immediate action that not only gives you resistance 30, but allows you to store damage dealt and shoot it back as rays. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/energyConversion.htm)

Pretty spiffy, huh? Combine with Energy Retort (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/energyRetort.htm) and you can throw out tons of rays at no cost whenever they target the character.

For defenses, there is the plain ol' Mind Over Energy power which grants you immunity to an energy, which is dandy.

Oh, also? Really fun one against fire mages. Fiery Discorporation. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/fieryDiscorporation.htm) "Oh no, you annihilated me in a blast of fire! Gee, what EVER will I do?" :smallbiggrin:

Psionics also works well for blasting, which should be a moderate tactic against wizards- taking damage is not one of the wizard's strongest points, after all. You can count on things like Crystal Shard and Crystal Swarm if nothing else- both are difficult to resist, with the latter of the two being a no save, no SR, area attack that does slashing damage. It's like Hail of Stone, except better, because it scales as much as you want it to.

Also, target their weak save with more potent powers. Like Decerebrate! (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/decerebrate.htm) It's a save or die, except without the Death descriptor. Betcha those wizards won't be a problem without their brain stems.

Plus, psionics are just decent caster types, and it never hurts to have more of them around. I'd say it's a good choice.

[Heliomance]

Why has no-one mentioned Energy Immunity from the SpC yet? It's a 24 hour duration spell that makes you immune to an energy type of your choice. All the defense you need right there. As for offense, fire mages don't die any less easily than anyone else.

[Bakkan]

If you can get your cohort close to the enemy, a Crusader with Thicket of Blades stance, Mage Slayer, and Pierce Magical Concealment is decent at locking down a caster.

Alternatively (or at the same time) there's a Bard PrC in Complete Adventurer called Seeker of the Song that at level 6 (ECL 16 IIRC) can force significant Concentration checks on enemy casters to cast anything. I built one for a competition here, just ask if you want the details.

[Gavinfoxx]

I loves me some Energy Immunity.

[jaybird]

Just keep an eye out for Metamagic - Searing Spell IIRC ignores fire immunity and halves fire resistance.

[gbprime]

Just keep an eye out for Metamagic - Searing Spell IIRC ignores fire immunity and halves fire resistance.

Doesn't get through Globe of Invulnerability (or the cheaper version, Glacial Globe of Invulnerability, from Frostburn).

And Searing spell is still fire damage, even if it penetrates resistance and immunity. Protection from Energy is your friend.

[Nohwl]

Look, you want to brutally annihilate a fire mage? You want to do it with style? Let's destroy the Elemental Plane of Fire. Kill the body and the head will die!

Alternatively, if you're interested, I can lay you out a really cool psionic sneak build.

i'd like to see the plane of fire destroyed.

[Torben Raibeart]

Not knowing what level you are (and therefore what level your cohort would be), it's hard to give an exact build, but the simplest for something that can fight fire-mages I can think of would be Cleric 5/Divine Oracle 2++

This would give you a cohort who would not only be able to protect himself and others with spells like mass resist energy and protection from energy, but who would also have his own form of evation which function even if he was wearing heavy armor. On top of that, he would of cause be able to heal you and your companions, and his focus and bonuses with divination-spells would be a huge asset to any spy-ring.

Divine Oracle is from Complete Divine by the way. Only downside with this would be the fact that DO gets a d6 hp instead of the clerics d8. Did I mention that he gets trapsense and the Oracle Domain as well?
[Edit]: Aaaaand only get wizardly BAB. But who cares? S/he's a clric, casting Divine Power would solve any such problem.

[Elboxo]

"...there's two clans, an ice clan and a fire clan and a rogue member of the fire clan seems to be the primary enemies for now."

Ice clan and a fire clan you say?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fICD6HTBKfM

[jaybird]

Doesn't get through Globe of Invulnerability (or the cheaper version, Glacial Globe of Invulnerability, from Frostburn).

And Searing spell is still fire damage, even if it penetrates resistance and immunity. Protection from Energy is your friend.

Protection from Energy says "temporary immunity" on the SRD. Searing Spell blasts right through.

GoI, though, would easily stop a Fireball or Scorching Ray.

[gbprime]

Protection from Energy says "temporary immunity" on the SRD. Searing Spell blasts right through.

It's poorly worded. The first sentence says "immunity", but the second sentence describes it not as immunity at all but rather as absorbing hit points of damage. That's the mechanic, the spell absorbs hit points of damage.

[jaybird]

It's poorly worded. The first sentence says "immunity", but the second sentence describes it not as immunity at all but rather as absorbing hit points of damage. That's the mechanic, the spell absorbs hit points of damage.

Fair enough. Well, that would be up to the GM I suppose - you could take it either way. At any rate, don't purely count on protective spells - hit dice are the surest protection from Fireball becoming a save-or-die targeting Ref.

[Tenno Seremel]

This will not work vs Energy nullification field AFAIK. Unless you go somewhere that lets you ignore AMF like effects.