Ways to increase Touch AC effectively.

[hobbitkniver]

I am a level 10 Cleric with opportunity to get pretty much any item I can afford. I had a close call and realized that my touch AC is only 11. Pretty much anything that tries a touch attack can hit me. What items should I go looking for? I'm the only character in the party that wears more than leather so the DM doesn't (yet?) understand how much more susceptible I am than my dextery loving companions. Are there any really good spells for this in particular? I probably won't use them because I try to balance my own characters power, but it's always nice to know of them.

[Emperor Tippy]

You are probably better off trying to find ways to increase miss chance. It's easier and has the added benefit of also applying to regular attacks.

[Elfstone]

Anything that improved Dex, improves AC, improves touch AC. Mithril armor can help with max dex. Haste grants a +1. Natural Armor bonuses help..

[hobbitkniver]

Anything that improved Dex, improves AC, improves touch AC. Mithril armor can help with max dex. Haste grants a +1. Natural Armor bonuses help..

Natural armor does not improve Touch AC. I could go the mithral and dex direction, but is it enough AC to be worth the cost?

[JaronK]

Do you have access to Fabricate (via domains or anything)? If so that makes mundane armor much cheaper.

Also, if you can get it as an item Wall of Blades gives you a one shot AC that I think applies to touch (not entirely sure). That might help.

JaronK

[Morbis Meh]

Well if you use a shield then the feat shield ward adds your shields AC bonus to touch AC but it requires the other feat shield specialization...

[Eldariel]

I am a level 10 Cleric with opportunity to get pretty much any item I can afford. I had a close call and realized that my touch AC is only 11. Pretty much anything that tries a touch attack can hit me. What items should I go looking for? I'm the character in the party that wears more than leather so the DM doesn't (yet?) understand how much more susceptible I am than my dextery loving companions. Are there any really good spells for this in particular? I probably won't use them because I try to balance my own characters power, but it's always nice to know of them.

Monk's Belt is a goodly chunk. You obviously want to max out on the auxillary AC sources (insight, deflection, dodge, luck, etc.) as those go to both, AC and touch AC. You could also get +1 Ghost Ward [MiC] Armor & Animated Shield which combined with Magic Vestment is a decent Touch AC boost.

Actual spells (all from Spell Compendium), well, beyond the obvious Shield of Faith, Divine Agility, while rather short duration, is +10 Dex. Spell-domain would give you access to Scintillating Scales which combined with Natural Armor bonuses (Righteous Might or Draconic Polymorph, for instance) would gain you decent chunks of Deflection bonus to AC. Holy Star on level 7 would work though that's a bit into the future. Either Holy Transformation or Visage of the Deity-line grants some but I can't for the life of me remember which. Recitation would give you some Luck bonus. Obviously Protection from Alignment from PHB for Deflection but it overlaps with Shield of Faith. There's more but I can't recall everything right now.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Since you are a cleric I am sure you have good Wis (if not then shame on you!) so a Monk's Belt will let you add wis to AC and since it works like the monk's ability it also applies to touch AC.

Bracers of Armour might also help, as they are based of on Mage Armour which includes a clause "Since mage armor is made of force, incorporeal creatures can’t bypass it the way they do normal armor." which might be interpreted for them to apply their AC bonus to Touch too and in any case IME* most of touch attacks comes from incorporeal creatures.

*I know personal experience count for nothing; but I felt it was something to mention

Edit: Swordsage'd on the Monk's Belt.

[HunterOfJello]

Combat Expertise + rays or touch spells

Monk 1

Swordsage 2

Wilder 2

Deflection bonus enhancements (can go on ring, body or shoulder slots)



Bracers of Armour might also help, as they are based of on Mage Armour which includes a clause "Since mage armor is made of force, incorporeal creatures can’t bypass it the way they do normal armor." which might be interpreted for them to apply their AC bonus to Touch too and in any case IME* most of touch attacks comes from incorporeal creatures.

Bracers of Armor provide a Armor Bonus which doesn't stack with any other type of armor bonus, including that from actual armor (PHB 315).

[hobbitkniver]

Do you have access to Fabricate (via domains or anything)? If so that makes mundane armor much cheaper.

Also, if you can get it as an item Wall of Blades gives you a one shot AC that I think applies to touch (not entirely sure). That might help.

JaronK

I can't really get access to that spell, but thanks for the suggestion.


Well if you use a shield then the feat shield ward adds your shields AC bonus to touch AC but it requires the other feat shield specialization...

How many feats would that be? I could get a pretty nice bonus if I invested more heavily into my shield and ignored my plate a bit.

[HunterOfJello]

How many feats would that be? I could get a pretty nice bonus if I invested more heavily into my shield and ignored my plate a bit.


Two feats. You have to have Shield Proficiency (which you already have). Then you need Shield Specialization and Shield Ward. Both of the feats are from the PHB2. Specialization increases your shield bonus by +1 with a chosen type of shield. Ward gives your shield bonus to touch AC.

They're nice feats if you have limited feat sources or are trying to scale back your character a bit.


*edit*

To clarify, the shield types you can choose from are Bucklers, Light Shields, and Heavy Shields. The specific text of Shield Ward is, "Benefit: you apply your shield bonus to your touch AC, and on checks or rolls to resist bull rush, disarm, grapple, overrun, or trip attempts against you."

[Dusk Eclipse]

Bracers of Armor provide a Armor Bonus which doesn't stack with any other type of armor bonus, including that from actual armor (PHB 315).

I meant use them to replace his current leather armour and it would stack with the Wis to AC from the Monk's Belt


I can't really get access to that spell, but thanks for the suggestion.



How many feats would that be? I could get a pretty nice bonus if I invested more heavily into my shield and ignored my plate a bit.

Two IIRC Shield Specialization and Shield Ward (both from the PH II) I also think there is one similar feat in Lord of Madness Parrying shield which does mostly the same (except you can't use it against special maneuvers like sunder or tripping) and it may or not may have a pre-req feat so you might want to check that.

[Emperor Tippy]

Grab an Eternal Wand of Greater Mage Armor at CL 12 if you don't feel 10 hours is enough for the day, it will cost you 26K for +6.

No check penalty, not noticeable (so you can keep it up in public settings easier), protects against incorporeal attackers.

Sure, it's two points less AC than Full Plate gets you; but you get full Dex. It's also significantly cheaper than Bracers of Armor +6 and doesn't take up a slot.

It's my standard armor option in mid to high level play on everything that isn't a complete tank.

[HunterOfJello]

Grab an Eternal Wand of Greater Mage Armor at CL 12 if you don't feel 10 hours is enough for the day, it will cost you 26K for +6.

No check penalty, not noticeable (so you can keep it up in public settings easier), protects against incorporeal attackers.

Sure, it's two points less AC than Full Plate gets you; but you get full Dex. It's also significantly cheaper than Bracers of Armor +6 and doesn't take up a slot.

It's my standard armor option in mid to high level play on everything that isn't a complete tank.

I hadn't heard of this before. That's a really great idea.

The only problem for a cleric is that he either needs the Magic Domain, a level in an arcane casting class, or an arcane spellcaster ally to use the wand.

[hobbitkniver]

Does the monk's belt require that I not wear armor? I've already got a pretty nice set of full plate. Also my dex is only 12 because I didn't plan on being able to benefit from a higher dex bonus. I'm also curious as to what some good items are for Tippy's original suggestion of increasing miss chance.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I hadn't heard of this before. That's a really great idea.

The only problem for a cleric is that he either needs the Magic Domain, a level in an arcane casting class, or an arcane spellcaster ally to use the wand.

If he can get a UMD check of at least 21 (easilly doable with Guidance of the Avatar) he could do it by emulating Arcane Spellcasting as per the rules for UMD.


Does the monk's belt require that I not wear armor? I've already got a pretty nice set of full plate. Also my dex is only 12 because I didn't plan on being able to benefit from a higher dex bonus.

Yes, you would need to be unarmored that is why I suggested ditching your armour in favour of Bracers of Armor (I misread your opening post and thought you were wearing leather armour, my bad).

Edit: For miss chances a Cloak of lesser displacement in core is the usual go to, there are also more items in the MiC and one that really shines is the Smoking Propierty from Lords of Darkness (3.0 though) which gives you constant 50% chance IIRC it works best if you have +1 Smoking armour spikes.

[shadow_archmagi]

If you're already wearing full plate, you might want to look into the Heavy Armor Deflection feat that lets you add your armor bonus to Touch AC.

[Dusk Eclipse]

If you're already wearing full plate, you might want to look into the Heavy Armor Deflection feat that lets you add your armor bonus to Touch AC.

You need a psionic focus for that feat to work and it is the end of a 3 feat chain IIRC.

[Emperor Tippy]

I hadn't heard of this before. That's a really great idea.

The only problem for a cleric is that he either needs the Magic Domain, a level in an arcane casting class, or an arcane spellcaster ally to use the wand.

Eternal Wand, anyone can use them.


Does the monk's belt require that I not wear armor? I've already got a pretty nice set of full plate. Also my dex is only 12 because I didn't plan on being able to benefit from a higher dex bonus. I'm also curious as to what some good items are for Tippy's original suggestion of increasing miss chance.

Yeah, monks belt is Unarmored only.

As for miss chance, a minor cloak of displacement is your best choice. 20% miss chance (meaning one in 5 attacks against you will fail). Immunity to Sneak Attack (can't SA someone with concealment). Costs 24K. One of the must have purchases.

Most of the other ways to get miss chance are from spells.

The spell Displacement gives 50% miss chance (and you can stack it with the cloak), for 70%. But it's rounds/level and not on the Cleric spell list (unless it's hiding out in one of the innumerable domain lists, in which case DMM persist it).

Grab Greater Blink (celerity domain) and DMM persist it (rounds/level spell) for another 50%.

Get all 3 and you are at 95% miss chance. :D

[hobbitkniver]

Eternal Wand, anyone can use them.



Yeah, monks belt is Unarmored only.

As for miss chance, a minor cloak of displacement is your best choice. 20% miss chance (meaning one in 5 attacks against you will fail). Immunity to Sneak Attack (can't SA someone with concealment). Costs 24K. One of the must have purchases.

Most of the other ways to get miss chance are from spells.

The spell Displacement gives 50% miss chance (and you can stack it with the cloak), for 70%. But it's rounds/level and not on the Cleric spell list (unless it's hiding out in one of the innumerable domain lists, in which case DMM persist it).

Grab Greater Blink (celerity domain) and DMM persist it (rounds/level spell) for another 50%.

Get all 3 and you are at 95% miss chance. :D

For purposes of not seeming like a jerk, I'll probably just go with the cloak. I'll probably be able to pick one up next time we're at a town unless the DM railroads us away from Civilization.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Eternal wands can only be used by anyone capable of casting arcane spells MiC page 159

[Emperor Tippy]

Eternal wands can only be used by anyone capable of casting arcane spells MiC page 159

Hmm, they have that in there? While still priced as command word activated 2/day wondrous items? Odd, never noticed that. I've always seen them played as usable by anyone.

Learn something new every day I suppose.

[Zagaroth]

Deflection, dexterity, Dodge, Competence, Insight, Divine/profane, luck

Really, anything except armor, natural armor, or shield will give you boosts to your touch AC. ANd your normal AC as well.

So the Ioun stone, place a ring of deflection, plus a luck stone, plus a few other miscellaneous +1 AC items can really add up.

Note: The force effect of mage armor/bracers only applies to incorpreal attacks, not touch attacks.

[shadow_archmagi]

You need a psionic focus for that feat to work and it is the end of a 3 feat chain IIRC.

If he's wearing Full Plate, I'm assuming he already has Heavy Armor Proficiency, which means he only needs Heavy Armor Optimization (and then the Heavy Armor Deflection feat itself.)

If he dips psychic warrior he gets the ability to become psionically focused, and a bonus feat. Then at level 12 he can grab Deflection.

[John Campbell]

Bracers of Armour might also help, as they are based of on Mage Armour which includes a clause "Since mage armor is made of force, incorporeal creatures can’t bypass it the way they do normal armor." which might be interpreted for them to apply their AC bonus to Touch too and in any case IME* most of touch attacks comes from incorporeal creatures.
"Touch attacks" and "incorporeal touch attacks" are not the same thing. Mage armor provides an armor bonus that isn't bypassed by incorporeal touch attacks, but, as an armor bonus, it doesn't help against regular touch attacks.

IME most touch attacks come from casters who have decided that they're not even going to let you have a save against whatever they're about to screw you with.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Hmm, they have that in there? While still priced as command word activated 2/day wondrous items? Odd, never noticed that. I've always seen them played as usable by anyone.

Learn something new every day I suppose.

To be honest I've never put much attention on the pricing guidelines so I don't know and I don't have an ECS handy to check if anything is changed in the Mic Version.


If he's wearing Full Plate, I'm assuming he already has Heavy Armor Proficiency, which means he only needs Heavy Armor Optimization (and then the Heavy Armor Deflection feat itself.)

If he dips psychic warrior he gets the ability to become psionically focused, and a bonus feat. Then at level 12 he can grab Deflection.

I was just pointing out some of the drawbacks of that method to get it; but yeah you are right and Psychic warrior is a great dip in any case...


"Touch attacks" and "incorporeal touch attacks" are not the same thing. Mage armor provides an armor bonus that isn't bypassed by incorporeal touch attacks, but, as an armor bonus, it doesn't help against regular touch attacks.

IME most touch attacks come from casters who have decided that they're not even going to let you have a save against whatever they're about to screw you with.

I know the difference hence the migh, as the OP didn't said the source of touch attacks I just mention one option of many.

[Gavinfoxx]

I prefer high natural AC + Scintillating Scales to improve touch AC...

[Eldariel]

Ring of Blinking is my preferred source of item-based Miss Chance. While you do get 20% miss chance yourself, getting 50% miss chance and the ability to walk through walls at the cost of some move speed is pretty good. Standard miss chance-based bonuses and a very solid defense against anyone who doesn't see Ethereal. Also attack as invisible, which gives you back some percentages on anything dealing with an attack roll.

There's also the Displacement Armor property in Magic Item Compendium which is a great option. 1/day for 5 rounds at a +1 enhancement cost on an armor; activates as a swift action. 50% obviously. So something like 4000 (+1 Displacement Plate). Could use Shield with the same enhancement or something for a second use.


But my personal preferred option is:
- Greater Luminous Armor [BoED] + Lesser Restoration
- Monk's Belt
- Shield (the spell)

For superb defenses without Dex caps or any crap like that. Greater Luminous Armor is Exalted so you gotta be Good but Lesser Restoration covers the sacrifice component (some Wis damage IIRC) and then you get full Monk's Belt-based Wisdom to AC alongside the -4 To Hit penalty for nearby seeing enemies (since you shine like the sun) and +8 Armor bonus too. Oh, and +4 Shield bonus (can get it through e.g. Anyspell).

No stupid enhancements to pay for and a reliable longterm low maintenance AC plan (grows naturally since you want superhigh Wisdom anyways), Touch AC scaling real nicely (can get more with Deflection and Dex too).

[Darrin]

Hmm, they have that in there? While still priced as command word activated 2/day wondrous items? Odd, never noticed that. I've always seen them played as usable by anyone.


It's still a touch spell, so as long as there's an arcane caster in the party, hand it to him to cast in the morning and hand it back to you.

[Emperor Tippy]

It's still a touch spell, so as long as there's an arcane caster in the party, hand it to him to cast in the morning and hand it back to you.

True enough. I've just always played with eternal wands being command word items, guess it was a house rule that we never knew about. *shrug*

[Gavinfoxx]

Re: Eternal wands

Yea, and it's not just casting the spells in question, its ANYONE who can cast arcane spells... weird...

Still! I list several alternatives to that in the tippyverse thread, look for my numbered list.