Opinions on 9th level spells

[iElf]

ok...the following situation:

as a level 12 sublime chord I've found a PrC the magical trickster that grants me the use of any meta magic on a spell without raising the spells level once a day. the class however skips over one spell casting level, leaving me with only one 9th level spell


the question is this, take this PrC and loose the spell or leave it , and not gain the bonus

the other question is which 9th level spells to take, especially if I only have one

thank you in advance!

[Emperor Tippy]

Shapechange. If you can only grab one 9th level then thats what you want. It can sub for a hell of a lot of other spells.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Metamagic Trick (Ex): Beginning at 3rd level, you
understand how to apply the principle of tricks to your
spellcasting. Once per day you can apply the effect of
any one metamagic feat you know to a spell as you cast it
without altering the spell's effective level. The spell slot
adjustment of the metamagic feat can't exceed four.

You can't use it with Persistent Spell, so no it is definitely not worth it. Take a look at the Incantatrix in PGtF if you want metamagic tricks.

Check out Runestaffs in MIC p223-224 for expanding your list of what spells you can cast.

[tyckspoon]

Skip Magical Trickster and pick up the Metamagic Song feat instead (Races of Stone), pay for your metamagic with your Bardic Music uses.

That said, Tippy's right. Shapechange is the most versatile/lowest cost 9th level solution. Gate would be the second best option; it allows more raw power, but you have to be sure whatever you're applying to is worth the XP charge.


It's a harder question if you want something that isn't absurdly broken, tho.

[ericgrau]

The thing with shapechange is that unless you crack open the right books to munchkin it out, you'll get maybe CR 10-15 monsters. So you can do almost anything, but not very well (again, assuming no munchkining). With 8 levels of spells below 9th, you can already do almost anything. You might as well get something specialized and rely on your 8th and below spells to round you out. I'm a fan of crowd control so I'd say mass hold monster or weird (even for mass the save-or-stun, assuming the 2nd save passes), b/c a few things are bound to fail their save, but then again those are less helpful against individual foes.

Also good: prismatic sphere, teleportation circle, foresight (unless you have a mean DM who says "ok all you get is a +2"), power word kill, dominate monster, weird, wail of the banshee, time stop. You'll note the lack of anything with an xp cost, since I want something you can use repeatedly without fear. True teleportation circle has a cost, but by the time you get the spell you can afford to pay it every single time you need it without hesitation.

[iElf]

The other thing is that My DM has banned divine metamagic, and i'm not sure he'll allow

ok, I just got the skype message back from my DM that the feat is allowed.

problem is the only metamagic I know is heighten spell(I thought it would be a good idea at the time) and I only have two feats left. any cheap way to get any more?

also, I'm playing in the first part of a Legacy campaign. this is going to be one of the BBEGs in the second part, and I need some more spells to make him a more effective leader . any suggestions would be great!

[navar100]

You can't use it with Persistent Spell, so no it is definitely not worth it. Take a look at the Incantatrix in PGtF if you want metamagic tricks.

Check out Runestaffs in MIC p223-224 for expanding your list of what spells you can cast.

Persistent Spell is not the be all end all you must have and if you don't you suck donkey meta-magic feat.

Quicken Spell is the popular choice, allowing for a wide variety of spell-combo tactics. If you like ray spells, Split Ray is nice. Sculpt Spell is good for versatility of placement if bad guys are not conveniently in lightning bolt or fireball formation as well as so you don't hit your party members as necessary.

[tyckspoon]

Persistent Spell is not the be all end all you must have and if you don't you suck donkey meta-magic feat.


No, but if you're devoting 3 class levels and giving up a level of spell progression for it, such as by taking Magical Trickster, you want to make sure you get your benefit for it. For a 1/day limited ability, that pretty much means Persistent Spell; almost anything else you'd be better off with more spells known/spells per day from taking a full progression class instead.