An army Forged for War

[NineThePuma]

Ive been knocking the idea of a War Campaign around my head for a while, where the PCs are running around as special forces or the like. I got to thinking about how the mechanics of the armies would work, and came to the conclusion that unless I wanted to avoid having "tanks" and "warmachines" running around, I'd need to find monsters.

Finding themed armies was easy, even ignoring the almost prebuilt Outsiders. Orcs/Goblinoids/Ogres, the Undead, and even the Five Races Alliance are obvious and can easily fill most roles (Though the FRA has issues with "larger" units like ogres and trolls on paper, Goliaths can sub in rather well, and Dwarves (with their defensive and offensive boosts) do well too) the last set makes me frown.

Constructs. I can only think of a couple kinds of warforged, and that means that I need help. What sort of composition would a "Warforged" army have? How would they handle aerial combat? What's their response to a bunch of ogres moving up to the front?

[Zonugal]

I imagine some common Warforged tactics would be things focusing around their immunities. Poisons, fumes/smoke, endurance, ect... Their immunities bring a lot to the table.

[Morph Bark]

Constructs. I can only think of a couple kinds of warforged, and that means that I need help. What sort of composition would a "Warforged" army have? How would they handle aerial combat? What's their response to a bunch of ogres moving up to the front?

IIRC, there is a Warforged component that gives them mechanical wings. Their healers are most likely not Clerics, but Crusaders. If they have casters, they are most likely Int-based. Big armies would likely have some Warforged Titans and certainly a regiment of Warforged Chargers, but if you have trouble with Large or larger creatures in your set-up, simply leave them out as if they hadn't been created. Considering they were created for war, they might be less likely to flee unless ordered to. (Still, they would also be smart enough to withdraw if they were at a tactical disadvantage and withdrawing wouldn't make other problems arise, like the invasion and destruction of their country.)


I imagine some common Warforged tactics would be things focusing around their immunities. Poisons, fumes/smoke, endurance, ect... Their immunities bring a lot to the table.

We're not going to be re-making my band of disease-infested, poison-soaked, feces-faced Warforged, except bigger, right? Right?

[Keegan__D]

The fact that they need no sleep is a great boon. Keep them away from casters, except a few healers (Repair ______ Damage casters).
The fact that they're machines makes creating new and previously unknown creatures perfectly easy. You could suddenly decide to make a flying Warforged, or give them heavy machinery like tanks, or even guns. This is the army that can do anything it has time for, and without sleep, it has much more of it than other races.
Imagine the human race where it is now (2011). Now imagine it 1/3 of its current progress further. Sleep may not seem like a problem in short term, but it really adds up down the line.
Immunities are also great things to have. With them, they're free to use tiring abilities like rage, or dangerous things like poison. They can use AoE spells (or bio weapons) without worry for their comrades.

Flavorfully, you could make them a mercenary army like the Maugs, or a more-superior-than-thou control force like the Borg. Hive-minding actually sounds kinda neat. Definitely different from everything else in the world.

Why limit yourself to Warforged? There are dozens of other constructs out there. Heck, homebrew some.



We're not going to be re-making my band of disease-infested, poison-soaked, feces-faced Warforged, except bigger, right? Right?

This was the first thing that came to my mind when thinking on the tactics aspect.

[marcielle]

Captured Wights? They might not be able to control them but unleashing a ton of wights on the battleield will only inconvenience them while tearing apart any living opposition from the level drain. Assuming foot soldiers are lvl 1, this will just anihalate any living enemy as they either have to exhaust themselves cleaning up the bodies and burning them or face more wights later on.. Warforged would abuse the fact they don't need food/water. They can use scorched earth tactics to terrifying effect. Even if they are defeated, they cannot be chased as the armies will run out of food too fast as feeding an army with no/little means of replenishing supplies(especially water) is nigh impossible.
Water is the trick, you can go without food for a while but when you have to ration water... Cleric could create, but I doubt they have near enough unless theyare a militant ordero priests or something.

[Volthawk]

Well, Warforged feats and components can give the standard warforged quite a bit of variety, especially if you add in the various PrCs that further change it or add things.

[marcielle]

Speaking of feats. In armies where the majority of enemies are level 1-2( assuming armies are drawn from common folk), the admantine armor is crazy powerful.

[Volthawk]

Speaking of feats. In armies where the majority of enemies are level 1-2( assuming armies are drawn from common folk), the admantine armor is crazy powerful.

Yeah, considering it mimics something usually worth a bit above 15k, and with the attack and damage they'll usually face, they'll be incredibly hard to kill. I mean, even if they have +0 Dex, that's still AC 18 and most warriors will have, what, +4 attack tops (if they're a race with +4 Strength like an Orc)? And then even after that they have DR. So yeah, Admantine Warforged are far tougher than most other basic troops.


Winged Warforged (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070618a&page=5)

Ya know, there is a whole book dedicated to warfare in dnd.
The name escapes me right now, but I remember some nice siege-gear, feats and classes in it.

Heroes of Battle.

[Escheton]

Winged Warforged (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070618a&page=5)

Ya know, there is a whole book dedicated to warfare in dnd.
The name escapes me right now, but I remember some nice siege-gear, feats and classes in it.

[marcielle]

Dont forget, downed warforged stabilise automatically, so if they win the fight they take NO CASUALTIES. In infantry battles where most won't have time to finish off downed enemies thru their DR, this might be an interesting thing to note. Also, the Warforged army in Eberon has it's base so far in the Mournlands(sorta desert) that no sizeable force can reach it.

[Morph Bark]

Dont forget, downed warforged stabilise automatically, so if they win the fight they take NO CASUALTIES.

Unless, y'know, they are dealt enough damage in a single hit or there are people going around hitting downed opponents.

[marcielle]

Unless, y'know, they are dealt enough damage in a single hit or there are people going around hitting downed opponents.

Lol swordsage'd before edit. That's still a full round action per warforged( maybe more with DR and light fortification) to coup de grace. And single hits would have to be about 22 damage. Not impossible by level 1 but probably hard on the wallet. A maximum greatsword crit would do it though. Assuming you get trhu light fort.

[Ravens_cry]

A supply train can be much smaller due to a lack of need for food and drink. Combined with a lack of a need for sleep means a warforged army can be much faster.
There is a word for this kind of war.

[Morph Bark]

A supply train can be much smaller due to a lack of need for food and drink. Combined with a lack of a need for sleep means a warforged army can be much faster.
There is a word for this kind of war.

I see what you did there. (http://www.danheller.com/Movies/Hellboy/nazi-robot-big.jpg)

[NineThePuma]

I was aware of Warforged Raptors and was discounting them for reasons outlined in their entry. Namely "They're too limited supply."

I'm also not fond of them because they don't really fit every other warforged build.

While there are flying Warforged via items, those items are expensive.

A big influence on both my encounter design and my army thinking is actually Halo. An emphasis on squad based combat means that I don't have to deal with massive battles that much (though they WILL exist). Ergo, when thinking about armies I tend to also think along the lines of "roles" and pondering them. To me, the Warforged are a squad of fairly standard Marines; Warforged Scouts are, well, snipers hanging back and tossing out some massive disruption by eliminating key players when possible. Chargers are Hunters without the ranged capacity. Titans are huge heavy melee battle platforms vaguely reminiscent to tanks. Raptors, if I were to include them in any significant role, reminds me of the Vulture Command Ships from Halo Wars.

I'm not above homebrewing, but I'm trying to fill gaps without having to brew everything from scratch. (On record, my Warforged Squads are made up of Fighters with an Artificer support. They tend toward Sword and Board or Control Builds, while the artificer is largely in charge of fixing his allies up through judicious use of repair checks.)

[Ravens_cry]

I see what you did there. (http://www.danheller.com/Movies/Hellboy/nazi-robot-big.jpg)
And warforged particularly well suited to blitzkrieg due the aforementioned advantages of mobility compared to more conventional forces. As much as siege warfare means much in a world where magic can allow both easy escape of important figures as well as the incursion of small strike forces and by passing defences,(pass-wall, various teleportation spells, disintegration), warforged are also well suited to both aspects, holding and defending.

[MesiDoomstalker]

I was aware of Warforged Raptors and was discounting them for reasons outlined in their entry. Namely "They're too limited supply."

I'm also not fond of them because they don't really fit every other warforged build.

While there are flying Warforged via items, those items are expensive.

A big influence on both my encounter design and my army thinking is actually Halo. An emphasis on squad based combat means that I don't have to deal with massive battles that much (though they WILL exist). Ergo, when thinking about armies I tend to also think along the lines of "roles" and pondering them. To me, the Warforged are a squad of fairly standard Marines; Warforged Scouts are, well, snipers hanging back and tossing out some massive disruption by eliminating key players when possible. Chargers are Hunters without the ranged capacity. Titans are huge heavy melee battle platforms vaguely reminiscent to tanks. Raptors, if I were to include them in any significant role, reminds me of the Vulture Command Ships from Halo Wars.

I'm not above homebrewing, but I'm trying to fill gaps without having to brew everything from scratch. (On record, my Warforged Squads are made up of Fighters with an Artificer support. They tend toward Sword and Board or Control Builds, while the artificer is largely in charge of fixing his allies up through judicious use of repair checks.)

Is there an issue reusing Warforged for different role? In Halo, Jackals serve as snipers, and slightly more powerful cannon fodder for the Elites. Plus there small stature makes them resemble Grunts and Jackals better as well. A different build (and different markings or symbols to tell them apart) for Scouts can give you small cannon fodder that isn't quite as resilient as Adamentine Body Warforged.

[Little Brother]

Feathered Wings, mundane flight, 10K.

Your army is FAST. VERY fast. You can have them run non-stop, 90 feat/round. 10 miles/hour~. While in adamantine armor(it is considered heavy, right?) For warforged mages, there's palanquins, so they can rest on the move, if need be.

Also, Troll-blooded Warforged Juggernauts. Jus' sayin'.

[NineThePuma]

Is there an issue reusing Warforged for different role? In Halo, Jackals serve as snipers, and slightly more powerful cannon fodder for the Elites. Plus there small stature makes them resemble Grunts and Jackals better as well. A different build (and different markings or symbols to tell them apart) for Scouts can give you small cannon fodder that isn't quite as resilient as Adamentine Body Warforged. I was referencing how they're built and how they're treated in combat; not an actual attempt at making the Chargers into war poem reciting battle platforms made of worms. Cool as that'd be.


Feathered Wings, mundane flight, 10K.

Your army is FAST. VERY fast. You can have them run non-stop, 90 feat/round. 10 miles/hour~. While in adamantine armor(it is considered heavy, right?) For warforged mages, there's palanquins, so they can rest on the move, if need be.

Also, Troll-blooded Warforged Juggernauts. Jus' sayin'.10k is more than I think I'd be spending for flight. Sure, on paper it doesn't seem like much, but 100k for TEN fliers, when the other side might be able to talk a Dragon onto the field for a similar amount, and have all of the destructive output inherent in that? Speed of movement is something I was aware of, and actually calculated for a bit. Most squads aren't going to have adamantium full plate; that'll be for shock troopers and defensive 'forged. Mages will be largely ignored, or they'll come in squads of three. One resting at any given time with two on the field. Trollblooded was human only, I thought, and even if it isn't, that's more cheese than I want on my basic troops.

[Zonugal]

For cheap flight you could always do a Dragonborn Warforged? In addition to getting flight at sixth level you'd have a nice variety of troops. They could be the dragoons or shock-troopers of your infantry.

[Tvtyrant]

My suggestion is to make the main offensive troops Warblades, and the main defensive troops Crusaders. Sprinkle with Dragonborn Warforged bards and Dread Necromancers to get DFI and minionmancy onto the field.

For range I would actually suggest just having them pull siege weapons. Remember, you can put the splitting property on ballista bolts too!

[Ravens_cry]

For cheap flight you could always do a Dragonborn Warforged? In addition to getting flight at sixth level you'd have a nice variety of troops. They could be the dragoons or shock-troopers of your infantry.
It does rather limit the ideologies your army can have. Bahamut tends to look less than kindly upon certain acts.

[Zonugal]

It does rather limit the ideologies your army can have. Bahamut tends to look less than kindly upon certain acts.

True but I guess some re-flavoring may have to occur in that instance.

[NineThePuma]

For cheap flight you could always do a Dragonborn Warforged? In addition to getting flight at sixth level you'd have a nice variety of troops. They could be the dragoons or shock-troopers of your infantry. Dragonborn Aerials would be delayed until level 6. When most of my army is level 3, I have problems with this plan.

@ToB: I'm avoiding ToB and other subsystems because I don't want to track individual maneuvers readied for each member of a unit.

I do have a vague outline of units ready; the highlight (to me) are Warforged Jump Packers; they have good solid Jump Checks that allow them to circumvent barriers and stuff. Walls aren't really q defense when your construct enemies are jumping right over them, are they?

[Curious]

A Dragonborn Warforged with two flaws (shaky and murky-eyed) can get Toughness, Troll-Blooded, and Adamantine Body. Either the Mind or Wings Aspect would be good, depending on whether you want gliding or darkvision and paralysis immunity.

These guys will be the worst soldiers to face on the battlefield, anywhere. They have an AC of at least 18, DR 2, regeneration, and a host of immunities. They will never go down, and they will never stop. And if you want to be even nastier, they can go into battle with canisters of mustard gas/baskets full of diseased rats/weapons smeared in poo.

[NineThePuma]

A Dragonborn Warforged with two flaws (shaky and murky-eyed) can get Toughness, Troll-Blooded, and Adamantine Body. Either the Mind or Wings Aspect would be good, depending on whether you want gliding or darkvision and paralysis immunity.

These guys will be the worst soldiers to face on the battlefield, anywhere. They have an AC of at least 18, DR 2, regeneration, and a host of immunities. They will never go down, and they will never stop. And if you want to be even nastier, they can go into battle with canisters of mustard gas/baskets full of diseased rats/weapons smeared in poo.

No dragonborn. No flaws on basic troops. They use a 20 point buy. And them using chemical warfare automatically turns them into *******s, and I'm not fond of *******s.

[Tvtyrant]

So you have some Incarnate Warforged to use their flying boots to go over things. That deals with low level troops needing flight, and you can even paint wings on their backs to show that they are special troops.

[Madcrafter]

A warforged army would be greatly superior to any other one of equal level and composition on the field, as pointed out above. You may not really have to buff them up much at all if you exploit these advantages to their full benefit (after all, dragons need to sleep too).

And if they have artificers, well, then I hope the other armies have some too or else they are really in trouble (unless the warforged are unusually poor, which, again given the advantages of their race, they shouldn't be).

As for some suggestions, if they have the means, getting your 'forged army some clockwork mender swarms would be something to look into, as pretty much any intelligent construct want to keep some of those things handy. That frees up your casters to do other, better things, like battlefield control. Depending on how evil they are, liberal use of poison and disease could make an appearance. Because they can move quickly, using lots of strikes on enemy supply lines and command structure would also be likely. Just some ideas.

As asked above, are the armies mainly composed of lv 1 commoner mooks, or something a little stronger? EDIT: Answered I see. That is what I get for taking so long to type.

[NineThePuma]

Ooh, incarnate! Thanks Tvtyrant!

Their artificers tend to do less crafting and more buffing. Keep in mind that there's a Hard Cap on levels for most basic troops.

The warforged army consists of Jumpjetters (Probably using a specialist class on the offensive; they're purely or mostly mundane with an offensive bent), Warriors (Actually Fighters; use Sword and Board with Shield Walls, and come in squads.), Snipers (Warforged Scouts that utilize long range attacks to harass and devastate infantry), Chargers (Warforged Chargers that are built to go "SHOCK TROOPER, BLARG!" and deal as much damage as possible, since they're *******s) Scouts (Warforged Scouts that are small, stealthy, and have a focus on perception. In RTS terms, they would have really good vision, even compared to other 'scout' units, but are really slow), Trippers (Warforged Chargers built around battle field control, probably with Fighter goodies), Artificers (Warforged Artificers that buff allied units and heal, but are largely combat incapable), Ballistiers (Seige weapons intended to be used to shoot things out of the sky, but thatd be uncreative) and finally Titans (straight out Warforged Titans).

[docnessuno]

An example of a warforged elite army could be:

Soldier:
Warforged, Fighter 1 Crusader 1
Feats:
Adamantine body, EWP (light repeating xbow)
Maneuvers:
Crusader's strike
Vanguard strike
Charging minotaur
Leading the charge
Leading the attack
Stances:
Martial spirit
Equipment:
Large steel shield, One handed weapon of choice, light repeating xbow

Sergeant
Any appropriate race, Artificer 5

That kind of unit would be almost unstoppable by any similar-CR opposing unit. AC 20, Dr and self heal infantry, with respectable long-range capability, no need to sleep or eat and not affected by fatigue.

[Madcrafter]

Why would the scouts be slow? They should be the fastest of the lot, since information is power on the battlefield.

And I don't see why you decided to make the artificers combat incapable. Let them do their thing, and they would be the best troops of the entire army. But if you don't want to have the 'forged army dominate even more then they already I guess that is ok.

Did you say no non-warfoged constructs as well? Because augmenting the troops with some mindless golems would be something I could see happening as well.

[NineThePuma]

I actually tend to make Repeaters martial, so that's a wasted feat.

Edit for ninjas; I try to stick within the Warforged that exist, rather than adding mindless constructs, but I'll be the first to admit that some holes need filling. I actually considered a Warforged Harpy creature as fliers for a bit.

[Dr.Epic]

I got to thinking about how the mechanics of the armies would work, and came to the conclusion that unless I wanted to avoid having "tanks" and "warmachines" running around, I'd need to find monsters.

They're called constructs. Monsters you need to feed, tame, and most like import. Just a suggestion.

[NineThePuma]

Monsters as a broad catchall for "nonhumanoid"


Scouts are slow because, again, in RTS terms there's instant communication. Even if it's a Warforged "hero unit" that's part of the high command with telepathy, the slower speed isn't that big a deal to me. Especially since I'd imagine they're a Psiforged Psion.

Artificers got Nerfed because a well done artificer is horribly powerful, with tons and tons of flexibility and they'd quite frankly unbalance the whole idea eventually.

[Madcrafter]

I meant adding in some clay or iron golems as heavy, tanklike troops, not making new warforged varieties. (For truly fearsome foes, having the warforged harvest the corpses of their foes for flesh golems would make them a dreadful enemy to face, though that might be a little to high level perhaps)

EDIT: If the artificers are relegated to buffing, you might be better off with wizards, and leave the artificers at home to support the troops in the magic item factories and creation forges. The wizards can use all the items, as artificers, and have more spells of their own if they lose their things (and can cast most things much faster).

[AslanCross]

I'm basing these on the historical accounts in The Forge of War.

By and large, warforged were used as infantry due to their ability to mount tireless assaults day and night. They didn't really have mounts (besides, mounts would tire while they wouldn't). In fact, in the last days of the Last War, the dwindling number of soldiers Cyre had was masked by the repeated skirmishes launched by the warforged.

The basic infantry unit consisted of a human fighter as a sergeant, a magewright as a repair specialist, and eight warforged soldiers.

A shock trooper squad for breaking formations would consist instead of a senior sergeant, a senior magewright, eight warforged, and a warforged titan. (Don't forget about these guys; they're a good alternative to true golems, which might be way too strong or expensive)

Cyre also used a heavy cavalry unit composed of a human commander with a pair of Warforged Chargers (see MM3).

During the Last War, Cyre (which made the most extensive use of warforged in battle) fought against Aundairian and Thrane air cavalry (dragonhawks and wyverns, respectively), and so their artificers developed the Warforged Raptor (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070618a&page=5). Its good speed and mobility allowed it to go toe-to-toe with the air cavalry, but its primary use was sustained air bombardments against fortifications. The latest models have practically infinite supplies of ammo, with massive loads of rocks similar to those that Bags of Boulders produce (that is, pebble-sized until thrown).

Lone raptors would be used for patrols, while flights of up to six were used for anti-fortress assaults. Once in a while, a warforged titan is paired with a raptor.

[NineThePuma]

Why add golems when there's already a ready made Warforged Variant for that? :smallconfused:

Simply put: because I don't want to have to model entire economies. Leaving the Artificers at home to pump out magic items means they're not working on getting experience to help in the creation forges.

[AslanCross]

EDIT: didn't realize you already had nixed Raptors.

Anyway, there's still the Large-sized Chargers and the Huge-sized Titans.

[Madcrafter]

Eh, I didn't mean you had to model economies, I was suggesting using wizards instead, since they are a little better at the buffing in the battlefield situation and can react faster to changing situations. They can use the majority of important items the artificers would, and have more of their own magic to fall back on. Or something more esoteric but less versatile, like dragonfire shaman.

Have you considered warlocks for the scouts or snipers? They could work very well for those roles.

[Dusk Eclipse]

IIRC, there is a Warforged component that gives them mechanical wings. Their healers are most likely not Clerics, but Crusaders. If they have casters, they are most likely Int-based. Big armies would likely have some Warforged Titans and certainly a regiment of Warforged Chargers, but if you have trouble with Large or larger creatures in your set-up, simply leave them out as if they hadn't been created. Considering they were created for war, they might be less likely to flee unless ordered to. (Still, they would also be smart enough to withdraw if they were at a tactical disadvantage and withdrawing wouldn't make other problems arise, like the invasion and destruction of their country.)



We're not going to be re-making my band of disease-infested, poison-soaked, feces-faced Warforged, except bigger, right? Right?

That component you are thinking is artefact level (and IIRC a later book 5 nations made Canon that Lord of Blades has it)

and
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/Dusk_eclipse/Warforgedmotivator.jpg

[Morph Bark]

That component you are thinking is artefact level (and IIRC a later book 5 nations made Canon that Lord of Blades has it)

Drat.

That limits the cheap options to Dragonborn.

Does anyone have a link to the thread where we all talked about our lovely gutterslime-fisted band of PC warforged? That might help the OP some, and if not it'll at least provide laughs. :smalltongue:

[Dr.Epic]

http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/Dusk_eclipse/Warforgedmotivator.jpg

Hobos?:smallconfused:

[Morph Bark]

Hobos?:smallconfused:

If I'm correct, the quote is from an earlier thread where some people, me included, discussed how to take best advantage of warforged immunities for a PC character.

Hence the hobo bit.

[TheStillWind]

Consider the feat animal devotion from complete champion. It gives flight for 1 minute per day. 1 minute is probably just useful enough for the low level troops to gain an advantage. You can run actions to fly quite far in 1 minute.

Another interesting option to increase the power of low level grunts would be water devotion. From the same book. Summon a small water elemental for 1 minute/day. use them as flank buddies, buffer the front line. The share your immunities as well.

[NineThePuma]

Elementals got absorbed into the forces of the Five Races Alliance, a hodgepodge of Elves, Dwarves, Humans, Goliaths, and Raptoran. They use elementals to fill holes that would otherwise be unfilled. (In theory, the five races can handle most spots, but I came to the conclusion that having summoned Air Elementals as air units would be easier on the Raptoran aspects, and water elementals are actually pretty well bonded to the Elves, stemming back to some ancient pact between the Elven Kingdoms and the Plane of Water.)

I've got vague builds for an Undead Army as well, but they're less defined because I'm not familiar with every single undead ever.

The Horde (name stolen shamelessly from Blizzard) is a mixture of goblinoids, ogres, and orcs. Some lesser Giants are part of it, but they're not common. They were actually the easiest to get filled out.

[NineThePuma]

Hate to double post, but I realized I'm a dumbass.

Instead of some custom Warforged for the Primary Air Unit, I'll give my airforged 2 levels in Magitech Templar and give them the Propolsion upgrade. As an alternative, I might make the Propulsion Upgrade a feat and give them Fighter levels.

Warforged Raptors ended up making it back into my good graces, but I don't treat them as normal warforged; they're just too different. Instead, they're going to be used as "Building Killer" units, making them one of two siege weapons the Warforged Army has, if Juggernauts aren't running around.

The entire army is shaping up to be less high speed mobility and more lumbering fortress, but that's fine by me. The Jump Packers break that mold pretty well, and the added benefit of being semi flying to bypass defenses makes them really good at harassment.

I'm pleased to say that, barring a need for specific Warforged Hero units, the army has been made.

[Madcrafter]

Hopefully fast scouts made it in as well. Lumbering fortress the army may be, but warforged especially would recognize the need for quick, up to date information.

[Ravens_cry]

The biggest hindrance to warfare with medieval tech is communication.
Strictly speaking, it's difficult, even with D&D spells. Of course, I always fluffed it that the spells PC generally get are spells that are useful to PC, things that help small squads kill things in similar amounts at once, so it is perfectly reasonable to research up some low level long range communication spells, but some DM may shy from this.
Dancing Lights can be of use, as shown in the comic this forum shares a website with, but what you really want is a form of magical walkie talkie that is low level enough that every squad can have at least one. Message just isn't long enough range.
Communication is especially important in the kind of blitzkrieg warfare I am imagining with warforged. It doesn't matter if you can be extremely mobile if you have no idea where to go or what to do when you get there.

[Madcrafter]

There are many ways to achieve long distance communication for the scouts, many of them useful in different situations. A pair of permanently active crowns of mindlink would be only 6000 gold. If you don't need 2 way communication, scrolls or wands of whispering wind would work. Homebrew could also for an appropriate magic item or spell, as you pointed out. I think there are enough ways though that you could get a message though that high mobility would still be useful.

[Ravens_cry]

6000 GP each may not be much for a mid to high level hero, but it is a lot to spend on an army, even just for just the scouts. For a fully integrated army, you want as much communication much as possible, adding to the expense. Whispering wind is better, but low caster levels limit its range and you ideally want two way communications. Which, if using the same spell, doubles the already expensive cost to set up.
Edit: Homebrew Spell Idea: Distant Resonance. You take two identical fine or smaller objects. If one moves, the other moves. No line of sight, some absurd range.
Not really a combat spell, though I am sure you could think of something and not really a utility spell either as far as mechanical effects are concerned. First or even zero level should do it.
But guess what? Make the objects two cups and you got a string phone without the string.

[NineThePuma]

To add onto the cost, I'm assuming that there's something like 15k going into the base warforged before you get into the armor added on.

One of the things that "scouts shouldn't be slow!" kinda gets nulled by is that my scouts are probably going to have a TON of LoS. They're also stealthy. They're also UNTIRING. Scouts have a slow foot speed, especially compared to, say, the Undead's Skeleton Wolf, or the horse riding human scout. They make up for it in their ability to move longer. Where the Human has to rest for his horse, and the undead (probably) can't adapt to changing field conditions, the Warforged Scout is both untiring and sapient.

[Ravens_cry]

Assuming yes, but what is that assumption based on?
Is there any information in the source books on the cost of making a warforged?

[NineThePuma]

The assumption was based on "what felt right to me" for a cost per warforged.

As I recall, the ACTUAL cost of a warforged is never stated; the creation of more warforged being illegal and that being a can of worms WOTC avoided.

[Ravens_cry]

Too bad and a bit odd considering there is rules and prices for making other constructs as well as spells for making said constructs sentient.
But while I imagine it being expensive, it can't have been too expensive or you wouldn't have armies of the creatures.

[NineThePuma]

Another thing I considered for scouts was using the telepathic homunculi; the messenger ones. But there was an ENTIRE warforged variant devoted to being a scout, so I was like "wait what" when they seemed to be somewhat blatantly useless.

[Parra]

I do have a vague outline of units ready; the highlight (to me) are Warforged Jump Packers; they have good solid Jump Checks that allow them to circumvent barriers and stuff. Walls aren't really q defense when your construct enemies are jumping right over them, are they?

War Forged Dungeoncrashers would be more in keeping with the army theme I think. They dont go around, they dont go over, they go straight through.

[NineThePuma]

The Jumpjetters are intended to fill the same role my (4e inspired) Eladrin Rangers do for the FRA. They needed to be mobile. I have other ways of decimating fortifications (my primary "armor" unit is the Warforged Charger, which comes in pairs and enjoys breaking through fortifications the old fashion way. The other option is to send in Warforged Raptors to bomb the crap out of the fortification I'm targeting.) and the Jumpjetters are intended to be bypassing them instead.

[Parra]

Jumpetters, while awesome, dont quite fit with the image of a 'Relentless, unstoppable, untiring, unyielding foe' that a Warforged army should (in my opinion) have.
I would see them like more army ants than robots with different attachements (though that might be what your going for)

[NineThePuma]

:smallconfused: Think 'Relentless, unstoppable, untiring, unyielding foe with Jet Packs' instead?

[Parra]

:smallconfused: Think 'Relentless, unstoppable, untiring, unyielding foe with Jet Packs' instead?

Which would make them 'Relentless, unstoppable, untiring, unyielding foe' that bypasses things it doesnt want to deal with :smalltongue:

Of course if your going for the army of super robots with a Specialist Unit suited to any task (which is another way to take it) then it fits perfectly.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Which would make them 'Relentless, unstoppable, untiring, unyielding foe' that bypasses things it doesnt want to deal with :smalltongue:

Of course if your going for the army of super robots with a Specialist Unit suited to any task (which is another way to take it) then it fits perfectly.

Except that wihtout having many PC levels, a standard Warforged can't just 'walk' through bariers. Chargers and Titans can. But wait!!! Thats specialization! Specialization is not a bad thing, espcially when the thing that is specialized is an enemy. Interesting encounters is putting enemies in situation where they can use their specialization to their advantage and force PCs to adapt to the situation. Either they must retreat, overwhelm them with pure force (not always possible), or adapt and take away the advantage specialization grants. Then when the PCs encounter these same specialized troops later they know how to defeat them.

Its like a video game. Every time a new type of enemy shows up, you get a little tutorial or an NPC spouts out how to defeat it. Or you have to figure it out on your own. It might of been considered a mini-boss or something similar. But after that first encounter when its challenging because its new, the enemy becomes easy as you know how to defeat them. The OP is basing his war-style fights after Halo afterall.

[Parra]

2 levels of Dungeoncrasher Figher plus 1 Barbarian with Destructive Rage (plus a cheap magic item or 2 to buff the checks) means they are going through everything but the thickest walls with ease.
The break DC of Masonry is 30-45 and these guys can easily hit 30+ on a poor roll.
And Adamantite Door is DC 20, it would be like walking through paper to them

[NineThePuma]

Heck a big part of what I want is to have the possibility for the players to come across a conflict that they're not directly involved in, between two opposing forces, and see the comparison. Sure, seeing a Charger take on a pissed off Ogre is probably not the kind of fight the players will want to jump head first into. But watching a squad of hobgoblins get jumped by a pair of Warforged Trippers (Warforged Chargers set up for tripping) will make the party react with "well, I don't want to get too close to these."

That and I have a LOT more experience playing video games than I do designing encounters. By setting up an army with specializations I can think of them as "Units" and then try to build encounters in Units. Using, for example, Halo's method of dropping large groups but splitting them geographically over an area to split the encounter into two more manageable ones you prevent the player(s) being overwhelmed.

My single largest disagreement with GITP as a community (and more broadly the D&D 3.5 community at large) is that it places more emphasis on the players than the DM. this is not a bad thing, but it assumes that options available for Players are alwas available for the DM. This is, very consistently, not true. Especially for melee. An area control chain tripped on a player is good battlefield control. An area control chain tripper on an encounter shuts down the party melee and makes them feel useless. That is, by definition, bad encounter design. Therefore, rather than draw inspiration from PLAYER optimization, I draw inspiration from video games. As MesiDoomstalker said, D&D is like a video game.

EDIT: At that point, with three levels, those are probably elite troops rather than the basic guys. Those are then specialist troops and not the common thing.

[MesiDoomstalker]

As MesiDoomstalker said, D&D is like a video game.

Yay I'm right! Can I sig this?


EDIT: At that point, with three levels, those are probably elite troops rather than the basic guys. Those are then specialist troops and not the common thing.

I'm assuming that this campaign will last several levels. At somepoint, even with situations that favor a units specialization, PCs will have enough brute force to bear that they can ham-fistedly defeat elite troops. So either the elite troops they encounter will scale upwards in levels or more specialized units that require higher level for it to be effective must be made.

[NineThePuma]

Generally speaking, I'm assuming an E6 type situation: if you break level 6 (Not counting LA) you are beyond extraordinary. At the point where the players are capable of mowing through most foes, the solution becomes two fold. First: Presumbaly the PCs don't have "kill everything on the battlefield" as an objective. Therefore, giving them a specific task to perform in a specific way will make them spend less time mowing down kooks. Second: The PCs aren't the only group of "special forces" moving around, and as they become famous, their counterparts for the other side are going to start targeting them.

And to use another RTS example: Tech Levels also play a part. Different things are going to become standard. Sure, right now a Warforged Squad has a group of fighters, but maybe late on the squad'll have another fighter, and a Bard or Warblade "Commander" unit to help them tactically. They might exchange their "acid flasks" for tanglfoot bags and poisoned smoke sticks

EDIT: Go ahead and sig the quote.

Another thought I had was that a scenario I wanted to throw out is one where an ENEMY spec ops group that is obviously under leveled shows up and gets their asses handed to them. And play it for drama, where the PCs are played off as "the bad guys" and give them something to think "Well, ****." about just to show that War Is Not Fun. Having the party encounter the remains of an allied group, torn to pieces by something is a chance to have the party get information on a new enemy, and also give a feeling that they might be over matched.

The party aren't the commanders of the army any more than the master chief was. The party is, potentially, an inspiration to their side and a spear head for key offensives. But they're never going to be the ones who make every single call about an entire battle; that way lies madness.

[Stone Heart]

I am so glad that you brought this topic up, it rekindled my love of warforged and I was just starting dnd at the time when I last used them, so I did not know much but I have been able to find so much info. Thanks.

[NineThePuma]

Glad to be of service. =3

Got any wisdom to add?

[Madcrafter]

I am a bit intrigued by the fluff you are using for your warforged army. Do they have their own nation, or are they more eberronian in style, as "recently sentient" beings and mercenaries?

[NineThePuma]

Xen'drik-ish warforged who all got knocked into negatives and stabilized unconcious. Depending on what my group decides they want to play as, the Warforged's ruins got attacked, or the warforged randomly popped out of the wood work and started slaughtering stuff.

It actually ties into an ancient empire that they're the remnants of. The various modern races were slave races and rose up in rebellion. The Warforged were all "stasis'd" by this rebellion and don't realize it ended, or DO and are fighting to retrieve ancient artifacts that shouldn't be in modern hands, depending on if you're playing as the Warforged or not.

[Elboxo]

Oh man I can just imagine a tactical team of warforged Thug-Fighters with the sneak attack ACF, along with warlocks with a tonne of wands of nauseating cloud just breaking in through ceilings and bombing the room with a nauseating cloud then killing everyone.

That would be totally badass

[Stone Heart]

Well for components, I always found the prices to be really high, and the fact that the wings were artifact level was kinda obnoxious, so I would consider reworking them (Such as allow lower levels of the wings for cheaper, but with far worse maneuverability and fly speed since level 1's with 120 ft perfect flight would be ridiculous)

Also is there some warlock invocation that gives flight early on? I seem to recall a friend using that for flight, but I can't remember what level.

Also I would definitely take advantage of the not getting tired thing with barbarians.

[NineThePuma]

Warlock level 6.

Right now I'm spending a feat on fly 30' (clumsy) for my fliers.

[Madcrafter]

Eh, 30ft clumsy should be enough for most situations. Unless they are getting into a lot of aerial combat.

Warforged barbarians would be fearsome indeed, especially with some rage boosting feats or items. Gives a Uruk-hai berserker feel to them, although Nine already has shock troop units.

[NineThePuma]

It's also worth noting that I need to keep some stuff for the Orc/Goblin horde too.