Pathfinder Gestalt question

[n00b killa]

Hello!

I was wondering if anyone knows of some site that has sensible rules for Pathfinder Gestalt. Specifically, what I want to know is if Arcane Archer is generally allowed. I have a friend who says it shouldn't be allowed, because of the issue with double progression classes (like arcane trickster with arcane casting and sneak attack, or mystic theurge with arcane and divine casting).

In my opinion it should be allowed, because there is no real double progression on it (I mean, full BAB can hardly be considered a progression).

Thanks in advance!

[Little Brother]

Hello!

I was wondering if anyone knows of some site that has sensible rules for Pathfinder Gestalt. Specifically, what I want to know is if Arcane Archer is generally allowed. I have a friend who says it shouldn't be allowed, because of the issue with double progression classes (like arcane trickster with arcane casting and sneak attack, or mystic theurge with arcane and divine casting).

In my opinion it should be allowed, because there is no real double progression on it (I mean, full BAB can hardly be considered a progression).

Thanks in advance!What does arcane archer doubly progress? And the Trickster thing is BS. It has its own SA progression, it doesn't "progress" it at all.

[hex0]

What does arcane archer doubly progress? And the Trickster thing is BS. It has its own SA progression, it doesn't "progress" it at all.

I agree.

Also, Dragon Disciple would be decent in Pathfinder Gestalt. (Even better than in regular 3.5 gestalt)

Paladin 5/Sorcerer 5
Dragon Disciple 1/Sorcerer 1
Dragon Disciple 3/Paladin 3
Dragon Disciple 1/Sorcerer 1
Dragon Disciple 3/Paladin 3
Dragon Disciple 1/Sorcerer 1
Dragon Disciple 1/Paladin 1
etc.

:smallbiggrin:

[Andreaz]

I really, really, REALLY advise against juggling classes at each "side" of the progression, because the sides are just a model to SEE what is being done. To the character in question it should all be the same thing. Juggling classes around opens both potential for MORE cheese and an insane amount of bookkeeping. Really, it's as if the BMX Bandit was trying to build a character.



The arcane archer doesn't advance anything doubled. It advances one caster class at a time.

So... no, there aren't any specific PF rules. Go with the d20srd stuff and, I recommend:
1) use fractional progression for everything(a cleric gives 3/4 bab per level, for example).
2) characters only get the initial +2 of a good save progression once, no matter how many classes they take with a good progression
3) Don't take theurge classes or restrict them to a single side, as it is usual without gestalt
4) Disallow builds with two T1 or T2 classes (T1: wiz, cleric, druid and any similar. T2: sorcerer, oracle and similars), which are basically the full casters.

[n00b killa]

The idea for the character in question was going Zen archer on one "side" and sorcerer on the other (until I could qualify for Arcane Archer).

I mean, Zen Archer is kinda neat, and I guess it is a synergistic combination, but it sure isn't as cheesy as some of the more powerful options (wiz/druid, I'm looking at you!).

EDIT: So, what you guys are saying is that the things that should be banned are the double progression CASTING classes?

[hex0]

EDIT: So, what you guys are saying is that the things that should be banned are the double progression CASTING classes?

Short answer: yes

Best answer: Ask your DM

[Saint GoH]

EDIT: So, what you guys are saying is that the things that should be banned are the double progression CASTING classes?

Technically the srd lists
"Prestige classes that are essentially class combinations-such as the arcane trickster, mystic theurge, and eldritch knight-should be prohibited"

So anything that progresses casting as well as having full BAB is (according to the recommended rules) a no go for gestalt. Quite silly if you ask me, and at any rate they are "suggested" rules, one which your DM would know. And if your friend that says arcane archer is bad is also your DM, you have your answer.

[hex0]

"suggested"

Yes, Gestalt is full of 'shoulds'.

[n00b killa]

I assume the GM won't have any problem with the class, it's just that one player that has a problem with it (but I guess he will be ok with it if the DM allows it).

The main thing I wanted was to know what is the general consensus regarding the pathfinder gestalt, so that I can play a more or less balanced class (for the context).

Thanks for all the answers!

[grarrrg]

The main thing I wanted was to know what is the general consensus regarding the pathfinder gestalt, so that I can play a more or less balanced class (for the context).


So... no, there aren't any specific PF rules. Go with the d20srd stuff and, I recommend:
1) use fractional progression for everything(a cleric gives 3/4 bab per level, for example).
2) characters only get the initial +2 of a good save progression once, no matter how many classes they take with a good progression
3) Don't take theurge classes or restrict them to a single side, as it is usual without gestalt
4) Disallow builds with two T1 or T2 classes (T1: wiz, cleric, druid and any similar. T2: sorcerer, oracle and similars), which are basically the full casters.

Basically what he said.
Link to the 3.5 Gestalt Rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm)

Fractional Bab is MANDATORY for Gestalt (and fractional Saves)
Example

NON-Fractional Bab abuse
Side A: Wizard 20
Sibe B: Start with _1_ level of Fighter, then 19 levels of Sorcerer
Side A gets +bab on even levels, Side B gets +bab on odd levels.
Congratulations! You now have double level 9 arcane casting with 20 Bab!


My vote for best PF-Gestalt char?
We shall call him "Chasad"
Side A: Oracle 6, Agent of the Grave 1, Oracle+9, Agent-Grave +4
Side B: Antipaladin 4+, Summoner (Synthesist) 11+

Start as a Chaotic Evil Human, if doing Point-Buy, put an 18 into CHA (20 after racials). Feel free to dump your Dex score to 7.
Your stat priorities are CHA/Int/Con&Str&Wis/___/___/Dex

As Oracle take the Lore (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/mysteries/paizo---oracle-mysteries/lore) Mystery, pick up the Sidestep and Mental Acuity Revelations. Sidestep replaces Dex with Cha for AC and Ref-saves. Human lets us use our Favored Class to add spells to our list.
Agent of the Grave lets you use your Cha score for HP for ALL following levels. Agent of the Grave 5 lets you add ANY necromancy spells to your Class List (# based on Int mod, hence why it's our 2nd best stat).

Antipaladin 4 gives Cha to all saves, a 2/day Smite Good (Cha-to-hit), Negative Energy Channel and Aura of Cowardice:
all enemies within 10 feet to take a –4 penalty on saving throws against fear effects. Creatures that are normally immune to fear lose that immunity while within 10 feet of an antipaladin with this ability
Summoner (Synthesist) 11 lets us wear our Eidolon. Take the Frightful Presence ability, it makes all opponents within 30 Shaken if they fail a saving throw, the DC of which is partially based on our CHA mod. Note that FRIGHTful Presence is a Fear effect (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/universal-monster-rules#TOC-Frightful-Presence-Ex-), thus benefiting from our Antipaladin Aura. I also recommend taking the Biped base for a few reasons, the primary of which is its low Dex score (we have no use for Dex). We might as well take the Undead Appearance for flavor reasons.
This is only 15 levels, feel free to take the remaining 5 in some combination of Antipaladin or Summoner (recommending Summoner)

End results
Bab 16 (17 if 8 levels of Antipaladin)
HD 4d10+16d8 (6 levels have Con/hp, 14 levels have CHA/hp) PLUS the Eidolon-form HP on top of that.
19th level Oracle casting (caster level 24 for purposes of # of undead)
CHA-to-AC (replacing Dex)
CHA-to-All Saves
CHA-to-Ref Save (replacing Dex)
And in addition you have all the benefits of the Eidolon (Str, Natural Armor, whatever Evolutions you please).
Anyone with in 30 feet must make a 18+CHA Will save or be Shaken (or worse), anyone within 10 feet must do so with a -4 to their save.
You can fight, cast, or sit back and let your Undead Minions kill everything!

[were-crocodle]

I know this tread is a little old but im reviving it anyway. My coment is, me and a few friends of mine(duh) are playing a gestalt campain, i have a
fighter7/paidin7
fighter 10/stalwart defender 10
fighter 3/pailidin 3
what would be the best feats to get (ik i get alot) to increase protection of a
duid/wizard
mistic thurge/psion
and some other psion prestige at level 9 or so(dont know his levels)
and a
gunslinger/rouge 20
and
monk/ninja 20
we started one sesion and though im a good healer now next level (8) i stop taking palidin so that will die down quicky(took it for the fatue ending tuch)
i dont have to worry bout healing because of the mistic psion, but i would like to focus on crowd control for the dpr's standing behind me (movement wont be so bad with palidin tuch of no fatuige) whats the best way to ensure no one gets past me(im locked into the levels i told u btw [i really need help with the defender part])

[jjcrpntr]

I really, really, REALLY advise against juggling classes at each "side" of the progression, because the sides are just a model to SEE what is being done. To the character in question it should all be the same thing. Juggling classes around opens both potential for MORE cheese and an insane amount of bookkeeping. Really, it's as if the BMX Bandit was trying to build a character.



The arcane archer doesn't advance anything doubled. It advances one caster class at a time.

So... no, there aren't any specific PF rules. Go with the d20srd stuff and, I recommend:
1) use fractional progression for everything(a cleric gives 3/4 bab per level, for example).
2) characters only get the initial +2 of a good save progression once, no matter how many classes they take with a good progression
3) Don't take theurge classes or restrict them to a single side, as it is usual without gestalt
4) Disallow builds with two T1 or T2 classes (T1: wiz, cleric, druid and any similar. T2: sorcerer, oracle and similars), which are basically the full casters.


Aw but my cleric wizard gestalt was so much fun