how much is full BAB worth to a rogue? [PF]

[supermonkeyjoe]

So I was looking at the swashbuckler archetype for the rogue and thinking of making it more like the 3.5 swashbuckler, the main change being upping it to full BAB but what should be lost in return?

Would dropping it to 6+int skill points and changing the sneak attack to sudden strike be enough? or would it be better to drop sneak attack entirely and change it to +int to damage?

For context it's going to be a rogue heavy campaign with proposed characters being a rogue(acrobat archetype)/thief acrobat, a beguiler and a rogue(swashbucklerarchetype)/duelist.

[Togath]

rokugan ninja has bab +1/lvl and 6 skill points, it's a lower tier then rogue, I would say it's fine just to add +1/lvl bab to the rogue without removing anything(and yes I realise that your talking about pf, but rokugan ninja is so much weaker then a pf rogue it wouldn't make much of a difference to give the rogue full bab)

[sonofzeal]

Thug (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighterVariantThug) should give you a benchmark. I'd usually consider Thug underpowered, but it comes up with surprising regularity in serious builds.

[Gavinfoxx]

What, Sneak Attack Thug is great! Really, it's a fine class...

[DeMouse]

I think the best way to go about it would be to give them a flat +1 damage (That can multiply on a crit, doesn't require flanking ETC) at each of the levels a rogue would gain sneak attack and change them to full BAB.

Then remove all the sneak attack rogue talents but add a talent that allows them to use INT in place of STR to determine damage when wielding a single light or 1-handed pircing weapon while their other hand is free. Not sure if it would be a standard or advanced talent. Maybe make a standard that lets them add Half Int and an advanced that lets them add full with the first one as a prerequisite. Maybe even make these talents replace the first standard and advanced talent choices respectively.

I would let the flat damage apply to anything and use the INT to Damage as a minor incentive to use a single 1-handed weapon. I would also add an advanced talent which dupiclates rapid shot for melee weapons if you are using a single 1-handed weapon (See: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/dawnflower-dervish for a reference on this one) I would leave this talent as optional though.

Also a standard talent to add some of his INT to Defense in addition to DEX would be a good idea. Not sure how much though. Probably up to Class Level/4.

I would also come up with an appropriate alternative to Master Strike as a capstone ability since he won't be sneak attacking anymore.

Edit: Added some changes.

[Ravens_cry]

I was in a campaign where a two weapon ranger got 4d6 sneak attack from a wish at level 11. It seriously upped their damage potential.
Of course, it was Pathfinder where so many more things can be snucked by default. But even in 3.5, with the right kind of opponent, two flanking sneak attackers with full BAB flanking could be rightfully called Team Blender at less than Ubercharger optimization levels.

[Viktyr Gehrig]

I would consider a Rogue archetype with full BAB, 6 skill points, Canny Defense and Precise/Insightful Strike-- at the expense of, say, Trapfinding/Trap Sense, Sneak Attack, and any Talents pertaining to them-- to be entirely fair. But I may be biased in this regard since the addition of Bardic Lore to that archetype would make it perfect in relation to the character build I am currently obsessed with.

[lunar2]

give the rogue full BAB and call it a day. I'm not too familiar with PF, but I know the rogue is technically a martial combat class, so it needs to be able to hit occasionally.

In 3.5, i always give the rogues full BAB and a D8 HD, otherwise they're nearly useless in a fight.

[supermonkeyjoe]

lunar2's post just reminded me that if I'm going to do it pathfinder style correctly then the full BAB also comes with a d8 HD.

Raven's_Cry, the reason I thought about dropping sneak attack down to sudden strike was so the swashbuckler couldn't get the sneak attack from flanking and set up a blender scenario with another character. Basically being limited to one weapon and less ways of sneak attacking on a full attack (at early levels at least) should limit the damage output to reasonable levels.