Star Wars Revised

[person29]

I am going to be running a Star Wars RPG revised NOT Saga starting in the next couple months and I was wondering if anyone has any advice etc for GMing it.

I have run a short campaign of SW revised before and have extensive experience playing and running dnd 3.5.

Thanks!

[Mando Knight]

[Not Helpful]...Run SAGA instead?[/Not Helpful]

What, particularly, do you want help with? Plot? Balancing encounters? Not wanting to jab the Force users in the gut with a glowing plasma stick? (And if your reasoning behind not running SAGA is something other than "I don't have the material for it," I'd kinda like to hear that, too.)

[person29]

Balancing encounters and if the jedi/non-jedi divide is as large as Ive read it is.

I have the revised material but not saga

EDIT: Also any good/needed/common houserules or homebrew stuff

[The Reverend]

If I remember correctly by the rules dont force users have to burn a force point to use force powers? To gain them back Jedi have to be good and darksiders have to become ever more dark to get darkside points? I remember something like that from our games that kept the force users under control.

[Treblain]

I played a little of the first d20 SW and I remember some of the revised edition. I'm also somewhat familiar with SAGA.

I can't tell you much without specific problems, but IIRC, you need to be careful with critical hits due to the way the HP works. It gets weird when one lucky blaster shot kills one of the players... or Darth Vader. :smalleek:

[Philistine]

My experience with RCR was that the Jedi/non-Jedi divide is on par with DMM Persist Clericzilla vs Commoner. Also that ranged attacks were basically useless, so players shouldn't even bother with blasters.

Funny how RCR didn't last very long in print.

[The Reverend]

Killing Jedi isn't that hard, depending on two factors. 1. How much of the expanded universe are you allowing, one sith lord created a supernova to cover his get away. 2. How malleable is the tech? Because a blaster is a Childs toy compared to the weapons I designed and used for Jedi killin in d20

[person29]

Why are blasters/ranged attacks useless?

[Raiki]

I'm actually currently playing in a Revised game. We had to homebrew a special sniper class so that our 1 non-force user could stay relevant. Everyone else was just drawing massively far ahead of him in every way. The divide between force/non-force isn't as bad as you've heard...it's worse. It's almost like playing two separate game systems.

My advice:

If you have any non force using characters, give them the Force Sensitivity feat for free. Think of this as them having luck akin to that of Han Solo. (Who, if you read the expanded universe...was apparently just an unknowing force user anyway...) Also, at higher levels, consider giving them Heroic Surge as well. The extra actions will go a little way towards balancing out their overall not-as-good-ness.

For the love of jeebus, don't let your force users acquire ANY form of fast healing. Just don't do it.

Just generally be open-minded about homebrewing things for people who want to play non force-users. And don't be afraid of letting these homebrews hit ridiculous levels of cheesiness. Odds are your Jedi will be cutting enemies in half in one swing by about level 12.

Also, in my game we introduced a called-shot mechanic that works really well. This may be why everyone in the party (including the jedi) carry and frequently use ranged weapons. I've never seen a problem with them.

Anyway, the mechanic is as follows:

Location: Arm Penalty: -2 Effect: 50% damage, target drops anything held in that arm, -2 to attack rolls/skill checks until damage is healed, if both arms are hit, target may not use any items requiring manual manipulation

Location: Leg Penalty: -2 Effect: 50% damage, target may only move at 1/2 speed until damage is healed, if both legs are hit target falls prone

Location: Head Penalty: -5 (-10 if user is wearing helmet[Yes, this is pretty much an excuse for a GM to give an additional -5 penalty for attacking someone he doesn't want dead]) Effect: 150% damage.

Location: Unarmored Penalty: Opponent's DR Effect: Damage applies directly to targets wound points.


Aaaaand...that's all I got for now. Good luck, and I hope this helps.


Edit: Oh yeah, that 6 armed (no legged) freak in the combat jumpsuit that is my icon...totally my Star Wars character! He's a Xexto. Further advice: Any characters prone to making 2(4) weapon fighters (especially if they're jedi)...don't let them play a Xexto. They're gross.


~R~

[hamishspence]

Think of this as them having luck akin to that of Han Solo. (Who, if you read the expanded universe...was apparently just an unknowing force user anyway...)

Which source claims this? I've read a lot of EU books- none of which mention Han being a force user, even unknowing.

At least, not more than all beings are (there's an implication that everyone is just a tiny bit sensitive to the force).

[Raiki]

Which source claims this? I've read a lot of EU books- none of which mention Han being a force user, even unknowing.

At least, not more than all beings are (there's an implication that everyone is just a tiny bit sensitive to the force).

The only direct source I know of is (admittedly) kind of weak. In the Star Wars CCG, his card reads "Force Attuned". For normal characters, the box for Force is blank.

The other sources I have are second and third hand. I have a few friends who have read pretty extensively in the EU and are constantly talking about how Han is a force user, even though he doesn't accept that that's where his good luck comes from.

:shrug:

~R~

[hamishspence]

In Saga he doesn't have Strong in the Force- or any way of using the force outside of that all characters get.

Padme, interestingly, does- though without the feat that opens up access to the Use The Force skill, it's not that big a benefit.

Being "lucky" might have to do with the Force being generous to him- but he's got no natural talent with it.

Wookieepedia, as far as I can tell, makes no mention of Han's Force Use. Instead:


Han was not Force-sensitive, unlike his wife, children and many of his friends. Despite his family and frequent companions including some of the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy, Han was far from helpless in comparison. His ability to think up inventive and often extremely unorthodox solutions to problems on the fly proved to be a constant source of frustration to all enemies he encountered (and often his friends). This, combined with Han's peerless skill at the hands of the Millennium Falcon as well as the legendary "Solo Luck" more than compensated for any lack of Force sensitivity.

[Mando Knight]

In Saga he doesn't have Strong in the Force- or any way of using the force outside of that all characters get.

Padme, interestingly, does- though without the feat that opens up access to the Use The Force skill, it's not that big a benefit.

Actually, Strong in the Force is useful regardless of whether you're Force Sensitive or not (since it modifies how you use your Force Points to modify d20 rolls), and I'm actually disappointed that Solo doesn't have it since it's basically the best way to handle good luck (the Luck stat in Mekton Zeta, for example, functions as a pool of bonus d6s you can add to any skill or stat check (the system uses d10s for those), that regenerates every session). Force Boon, which grants you extra Force Points and does require Force Sensitivity, is a bit stronger but is also better with Force powers.

Solo's Force Attuned ability in the CCG you're referring to is probably an application of an existing game mechanic to model his infamous Solo Luck. Han has never been listed as Force Sensitive in any C-Canon or higher sources that I know of.

[hamishspence]

Actually, Strong in the Force is useful regardless of whether you're Force Sensitive or not (since it modifies how you use your Force Points to modify d20 rolls),

True- but it's probably more useful to a Force Sensitive, who's more likely to be spending Force Points.

[LibraryOgre]

One thing I did in SW 2e R&E was that our sole non-force user had, essentially, contacts and influence. They were essentially padawans... he was a local mob boss for the Hutts.. If he needed things done, he detailed a few goons to take care of it. There were a couple Gammorrean NPCs whose job it was to be his combat characters Then the Rodian Jedi accidentally killed his way through a Sorosuub city (LONG story... the PC had horrible luck and the player had a bad temper), he was the one who arranged for them to hide.

[Mando Knight]

True- but it's probably more useful to a Force Sensitive, who's more likely to be spending Force Points.

Only because they're always thinking of it. Strong in the Force is only applicable when you're spending Force Points in the manner that everyone can, and Force Sensitives are more likely to be spending their Force Points on their powers rather than on d20 rolls. Excepting Force Mastery PrCs, Force Boon, and Force Recovery, a Force Sensitive and a non-Sensitive at the same heroic level will have the same number of Force Points (assuming that if one takes a PrC that level, the other takes one as well).

[hamishspence]

True- the difference isn't very big- and it might be a bit unusual for a Force Sensitive to spend points the conventional way, unless they use the methods of recovering them a lot.

I think Revan has Strong In The Force as well as Anakin & Padme (can't remember who else offhand).

[The Reverend]

Buddy of mines hacker was a monster. Everyone was more afraid of him than any of the sith. His computer check was soooooo high. Spaced multiple stardestroyer crews that an enemy force user might have been on while the force users were quibbling over how to attack him. If force users tried to mind trick him his cyborg brain would stop him and tell him what happened. Eventually he had a voice and text only policy for communicating with Jedi.


My elite trooper had no issue offing Jedi: repulsor lifted gatling blaster, thermal detenator morter,mass launch rockets, thermite sprayer, poison and stun sprayers on my droid fleet. Just have to overwhelm their defenses and present multiple targets while their loved ones dangle over acid baths. also droids with gravity traps to make even moving difficult. phrik energy shields on the inside of your gloves to grab lightsabers and break the damn things. Monowire filled projectiles. And every projectile is distance and velocity sensitive. Stopping those rounds dont do any good if it makes them detonate. Disintegrators if you can swing it, my dm didn't even allow them because he didn't want disintegrators the size of bazookas turning up.

[Philistine]

And all that just to deal with a single level 3 character...


@OP: Much the same reason why archery is so bad in core D&D 3.x. Blasters plink away for piddly damage, with few to no ways to get more, while high-STR melee mops the floor with everything.

[LemuneSD]

my dm didn't even allow them because he didn't want disintegrators the size of bazookas turning up.

lol @ not allowing those, but allowing the rest of the Acme Factory catalog.

[lightningcat]

I'll give my standard advise for running any Star Wars game: stay away from the movie timelines. Players are going to want to mess with those events, so save yourself the trouble and stay away.
My perfered time period to run in is about 12 years after the New Hope. This is shortly after the X-Wing series in the EU. But I've played in other time periods, most notably during the Clone Wars (this was before Revenge of the Sith came out).

Here is another couple of bits of hard earned advice: NO EWOK JEDI, for the love of all that is good and holy. And watch out when letting players improve their starships, you might get a space transport that can eat Star Destroyers for breakfast.

[LibraryOgre]

Here is another couple of bits of hard earned advice: NO EWOK JEDI, for the love of all that is good and holy. And watch out when letting players improve their starships, you might get a space transport that can eat Star Destroyers for breakfast.

Ewok Jedi are hilarious.

[LemuneSD]

Here is another couple of bits of hard earned advice: NO EWOK JEDI, for the love of all that is good and holy.

lol yeah, my group agrees. We subtly discourage any player from choosing Ewoks and Jawas.

[Treblain]

Oh, and don't let your players try to hijack capital ships. They will probably succeed. :smallsigh:

[hamishspence]

Ewok Jedi are hilarious.

What about Ewok Sith- maybe in the Legacy era?

"Yub yub! Bwahaha!"

[person29]

Was there an official Jedi Sentinel class? Or if not an official one then a commonly used homebrew one?

[LemuneSD]

Was there an official Jedi Sentinel class? Or if not an official one then a commonly used homebrew one?

The Jedi Sentinel setup is featured in SW: Saga Edition core book.

Also imo if you MUST have a pint-sized villain, then "Ootini" > "Yub Yub" :smallbiggrin:

[Jarveiyan]

By the way Raiki the Heroes Guide pg.68 has a nice "sniper" prestigeclass called Sharpshooter(should fit your needs for any sniper action, you could meet the prereqs with 2 feats and 4 soldier levels).

[person29]

Alright so we are going to be playing during the New Republic but before new jedi order...I'm thinking shortly after the New Republic retakes coruscant after isards defeat.

Is there anything published for d20 or saga (we are playing d20) from this era that I can use for ideas/influence when planning things?

If anyone has played/ran in this time frame before what were some things that happened in your game?

Thanks

[Friv]

What about Ewok Sith- maybe in the Legacy era?

"Yub yub! Bwahaha!"

An ewok sith would be downright terrifying, as long as you were cautious about the reveal. I mean, it's a tiny, sneaky, cannabalistic murder machine from a species that are natural mechanics. What could go wrong?

(What are the Revised stats on Ewoks, anyway? I only know the Saga ones, and they were enough for me to design a whole murderous organization of secret ewoks.)

[person29]

-2 str +2 dex
small
alertness
primitive

[Raiki]

By the way Raiki the Heroes Guide pg.68 has a nice "sniper" prestigeclass called Sharpshooter(should fit your needs for any sniper action, you could meet the prereqs with 2 feats and 4 soldier levels).

We looked at it, and were thoroughly unimpressed. Because of some of the other (unmentioned) tweaks we added to the game (such as the inclusion of energy shields-much like those in KotOR), the normal mundane classes just weren't cutting the mustard. Thanks for the comment, though.

And on the note of tiny heroes and hackers. One of the characters in our game is a Kushiban (tiny-sized Cabbit) Consular. She has only drawn her lightsaber two or three times. The majority of the time she's using her truly ridiculous Computer Use score to hack enemy droids, control her own droids, hack the piloting and weaponry systems of enemy ships, et cetera. She's actually shockingly effective.


~R~

[Amel]

I actually run the Star Wars Revised game that Raiki is playing in.

Yes, we've done a lot of modding and adding things in. Partly because of the era we play in, partly because I wanted to flesh out what I thought was a rather limited item list (yes, I've combed through all the extra books) in such a prolific futuristic setting, partly because I played through the KotOR games and loved all the items and mods, and partly because I wanted to try making non-force users less weak compared to force users.

On that last note, I would like to say that, if you pay close attention to the subtleties of the movies and books, you may notice that there is SUPPOSED to be a big gap between them. Force users are the super beings of the universe. They influence the minds of entire armies and armadas. They chew planets and break stars. They have influenced the ebb and flow of Republic space for eons. It's what they do.

That said, even at the high level (between 12 and 16), I've had a player create an old school Mandalorian Crusader that kicks all kinds of butt. With a truly creative player at the helm of this well equipped character, I'd be afraid of what it could do.

As for small characters, I have seen some truly frightening examples. Eeesh. From Raiki's Xexto of whirling death and dismemberment and property damage, to the Kushiban hacker who reprogrammed every droid in a factory like a zombie plague, forget it.

As a GM running a current game in your proposed system, person29, I'll say this, while I love our game, the system needs help. There are a lot of gaps, especially for a system that says "revised". But I'm going to try to answer your questions, and give the most helpful advice I can.

The first thing you should probably do to balance encounters is to go through the back of the book, looking at the example beasts, droids, and various npc examples. Then, go make your own npc based on those examples. Because, if I've learned anything, it's that, while there's nothing wrong with what's in the book, you have too many planets, people, droids, and beasts, and who knows what else out there to be limited by what you find in the books.
I regularly make my own npcs using the classes, just as if I was making a character. Even if it's just a bunch of thugs. Stat up one, and modify it for race if necessary for each different thug, and tweek them a bit for flavor. You may want to use a laptop or notebook comp. and keep them all on notepad files.
All of this is a lot of work, yes. But it lets you tailor things just as you want them. And my players certainly seem to appreciate the effort and personal touch, instead of just fighting the same old model of battle droid with a few upgrades.

Ranged attacks are not useless, even without our home-brewed called shot system. You just need to get into the extra weapons and such that are in the extra books. If you don't have them, I can give you some write-ups of the weapons we've been using. I personally recommend the Thunderer, Deathhammer, and the underslung rotary carbine. Add some nice weapon mods ala KotOR, and you've got some choice blaster weaponry.
Also, missiles, rockets, and grenades can potentially make things fun. And don't overlook the usefulness of droids and vehicles as mobile weapons platforms.

As for the Sentinel, we had to make our own home-brew class. It wasn't hard. Sort of a step between the Guardian and Consular. Though ours, like the rest of our game, may be a bit over-powered for what you have in mind. I can show it to you, if you like.

To the era you're planning to play in, I know very little. We play in the era of the KotOR events. Don't be afraid to look at the the non rpg books published about the universe. I've found all sorts of helpful info just by going to the book store and looking through the media books at the book store. Give the comic collections a look too, if your book store has them. The omnibus's are great for getting a feel for a certain era. And Wookieepedia is always a great source of info, for just about any question you have about the SW universe.

I hope this wasn't TOO long winded. person29, I can message you some of my work on opponents and allies, if you like.

[Seatbelt]

If you read the fiction there is a pretty big gap in how powerful Jedi are from book to book, with one author making them gods and one author toning it down a lot.


However you write them is fine. But Jedi superbeings in fiction is great. In gaming, with non super beings, is not so great.

[GeekGirl]

My group has played a lot of D20 revised. we usually ignore the increased light saber damage as Jedi progress. They are strong already, pair that with the only weapon that gets better as you level and your asking of unbalanced characters.

I can honestly say I do enjoy the system, I've never played saga so I can't really compare.

[Alejandro]

Upfront disclaimer: I know this is not, technically, helpful.

Consider Saga Edition, at least trying it. I GM a Saga game, and have none of these issues with trying to make non Force using characters relevant, blasters not being worth it, etc. The blaster-wielding Gunslinger PC is every bit as lethal as the Jedi, just in different ways and applications.