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Jamin
2011-11-14, 04:00 PM
I have always like the idea of using riddles in games. I really like the riddles in the dark scene from the the hobbit. However I have had a hard time using them in games for the following reasons
1. I can never find them when I want them because I tend to play things fairly loose so I don't know ahead of time if the party will be going somewhere where I could use them
2. People with high int are always wanting bonus and such but I don't want to give the answer away
So I wondering in anyone knew good riddles that also had hints and such.

PrinceOfMadness
2011-11-14, 04:32 PM
Your best bet with riddles is to prepare things ahead of time. Come up with 5 - 10 possible riddles to use in your adventure. Work out a system of hints for each riddle, with DCs for Knowledge, Perception, etc checks. Feel free to withhold information if it would ruin the fun of the riddle, but if the party is stuck feel free to volunteer hints, too.

As far as running the game loosely, that's not a big issue either. Improvise. You were expecting your party to clear out a zombie lair? Well, unfortunately they decided to go beat up some bandits. Okay, now the bandits are operating out of a cave, and in the bottom of the cave system there's a hidden passage that leads to your riddle room.

Seerow
2011-11-14, 04:33 PM
Just want to throw out I absolutely hate riddles after having several bad gaming experiences involving DMs using them.

Jamin
2011-11-14, 04:48 PM
Just want to throw out I absolutely hate riddles after having several bad gaming experiences involving DMs using them.

Can you tell me what happened so I could avoid repeating those mistakes

TheCountAlucard
2011-11-14, 04:49 PM
Just want to throw out I absolutely hate riddles after having several bad gaming experiences involving DMs using them.How DMs think putting riddles in his game will resolve:

-After putting their heads together, the PCs work out the correct answer to the riddle, based off the subtle hints the riddle gave them.

How it actually works out will vary:

-The riddle is one that's been done before in some popular fiction. Thus, you can be guaranteed that at least one of the players have heard it before, and will rattle off the answer before you're even done with your narration.

-The riddle is one that's been done before, but comes from a source that the players have never encountered; alternatively, the riddle is a creation of the DM's. The players will not be in the mindset required to solve the riddle. They will get more and more exasperated as they throw guess after guess down the hole, until everyone's sick of it, and either you give them the answer yourself, or the PCs give up or attempt to stab whatever is issuing the riddle.

prufock
2011-11-14, 04:50 PM
Don't have a riddle be the only solution to a problem. If it's a clue, make sure there are other clues that could lead to the same conclusion. If it's an obstacle, make sure there are alternate ways to get around/through that obstacle.

Seerow
2011-11-14, 04:55 PM
Can you tell me what happened so I could avoid repeating those mistakes

Worst example was a campaign where the DM made a bunch of doors with riddles on them that could only be opened by solving the riddle. There were no clues anywhere as to how to solve the riddle, except the riddle itself, and no other way to proceed with the adventure at hand without solving it. So we'd hit this door then waste anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hours trying to guess the answer to the riddle.

I also had another campaign where a different DM thought it was fun to give out epic magic items that required solving riddles to unlock their powers. So after getting treasure, the next week or two was everyone sitting around asking the DM "Is the answer to the riddle this?" to be able to take advantage of their loot. It was kind of cool and flavorful, but really ****ing annoying. Better because it was something to be handled during downtime.

My suggestions:
1) If you do include riddles, make hints easily available. Try to follow the rule of 3 (that is three hints of varying degrees of obviousness). Award bonus experience if they figure it out without the hints.

2) Make the riddles entirely optional. Solving a riddle might let you bypass an encounter, take a short cut through a secret passage, or something like that, but isn't strictly necessary to get where you need to go.

Boci
2011-11-14, 04:55 PM
How do your players feel about riddles?

The Dark Fiddler
2011-11-14, 04:57 PM
How DMs think putting riddles in his game will resolve:

-After putting their heads together, the PCs work out the correct answer to the riddle, based off the subtle hints the riddle gave them.

How it actually works out will vary:

-The riddle is one that's been done before. Thus, the players have heard the riddle before, and one rattles off the answer before the DM's even done.

-The riddle is one that's been done before, but comes from a source that the players have never encountered. Alternatively, the riddle is a creation of the DM's. The players will not be in the mindset required to solve the riddle. They will get more and more exasperated as they throw guess after guess down the hole, until everyone's sick of it, and either you give them the answer yourself, or the PCs give up or attempt to stab whatever is issuing the riddle.

This is all too true. Once, when my character was unconscious (and thinking, there might have been some splitting up for some reason), the DM asked the question "What happens once in a minute, twice in a moment, but never in a lifetime." My character was the one with the high-Int who could reasonably get hints, but he was unconscious so I wasn't allowed to help them out. Now, I got the answer (the letter M) relatively quickly, as did another member of the group who either wasn't there in game and also couldn't help or was just being a jerk and not helping, but the two who could/wanted to answer ended up taking about 45 minutes to solve. It was amusing at first, but eventually got devastatingly dull. Riddles don't tend to show up now...

Mnemnosyne
2011-11-14, 05:01 PM
One of the things I would suggest is to make sure the players get a limited amount of guesses. For example, three. They get it wrong three times, then something happens. A guardian awakens, a trap activates, something. Then they can defeat the guardian in combat or find some other clever solution, but the riddle doesn't become an impasse if they can't solve it.

If you want to strongly encourage them to do their best, the first time they fail such a riddle make sure it's obvious that not only do they have to fight the guardian or deal with the trap or whatever, but something valuable was also destroyed or moved elsewhere. The valuable thing should not be the primary goal of the adventure, but it should be something they would very much have liked to have. That way, next time, they know that if they fail the riddles they lose something. Otherwise it'll be like /shrug. We get xp either way, just fail and kill the guardian.

If they're prone to not answering at all until they're really, really sure and taking an excessive amount of time to come up with the answers, put them on a time limit too. If they can get it in a limited amount of time, great. If not, better luck next time. But don't let it take up hours of the session.

Emmerask
2011-11-14, 05:04 PM
I generally don´t give any hints about the riddle but I also try to avoid making the riddle solving a necessity to advance the plot.

Solving the riddle gives either loot or additional information that makes solving situation xy more easy but can also be accomplished without solving it.

So my general advice is that you should not use riddles that must be solved for the adventure and instead use riddles for bonus stuff.

Caphi
2011-11-14, 05:05 PM
the DM asked the question "What happens once in a minute, twice in a moment, but never in a lifetime." My character was the one with the high-Int who could reasonably get hints, but he was unconscious so I wasn't allowed to help them out. Now, I got the answer (the letter M)


"What happens once in a minute, twice in a moment, but never in a lifetime."

Wait a minute...

TheCountAlucard
2011-11-14, 05:11 PM
Wait a minute...Actually, I think the last one was supposed to be, "never in a thousand years." :smallconfused:

Jamin
2011-11-14, 05:15 PM
Worst example was a campaign where the DM made a bunch of doors with riddles on them that could only be opened by solving the riddle. There were no clues anywhere as to how to solve the riddle, except the riddle itself, and no other way to proceed with the adventure at hand without solving it. So we'd hit this door then waste anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hours trying to guess the answer to the riddle.

I also had another campaign where a different DM thought it was fun to give out epic magic items that required solving riddles to unlock their powers. So after getting treasure, the next week or two was everyone sitting around asking the DM "Is the answer to the riddle this?" to be able to take advantage of their loot. It was kind of cool and flavorful, but really ****ing annoying. Better because it was something to be handled during downtime.

My suggestions:
1) If you do include riddles, make hints easily available. Try to follow the rule of 3 (that is three hints of varying degrees of obviousness). Award bonus experience if they figure it out without the hints.

2) Make the riddles entirely optional. Solving a riddle might let you bypass an encounter, take a short cut through a secret passage, or something like that, but isn't strictly necessary to get where you need to go.
I generally try to make the riddle easy or avoidable. I.E. solving the riddle would let them get there faster but if they can't solve it then it is not the end of the world.
BTW I have had great success with having quizzes that ask about stuff that happened earlier in the campaign. That way they should in theory know the answer. It is a good way to try and make sure your players are playing attention to the world around them.

Ravens_cry
2011-11-14, 05:15 PM
I agree with prufock, riddles as they are generally presented are a bad thing, being too binary and breaking the Rule of Three, the 'rule' that every situation should have at least three ways past. The are either stuck twiddling your thumbs, possibly until an NPC mentions its the elvish word for friend, certainly dragging the game to a halt or you get it right away. Not all ways have to be equally optimal,sneaking past the orcs might use less resources than fighting them, but they should all be doable. I also never liked most riddles because, unless it is an explicit test, they make little sense as a security measure.

Lapak
2011-11-14, 05:32 PM
Another thing to keep in mind if you use riddles: if, due to poor riddle design, the players are able to come up with an answer that elegantly solves the riddle but isn't the answer you had in mind - pretend that it was. Hooray, you figured it out, well done, etc. If your riddle was put together in a way that allows this to happen, just run with it.

Say your riddle is

In absolute darkness, I hide life's source /
you must learn my secrets to set your best course

and you're thinking the answer is The Ocean [the depths, origin of single-celled life, tides and currents) but your players come up with The Night Sky [darkness, the sun, astrology/astronomy) or vice versa.

Thomo
2011-11-14, 05:38 PM
I prefer to use riddles in game as a way of foreshadowing what might be ahead, or give some clue to something that might help them in a following encounter.

An example:

I make you weak at the worst of times.
I keep you safe, I keep you fine.
I make your hands sweat,
And your heart grow cold,
I visit the weak,
But seldom the bold.

The answer is Fear. If they get it right, they go through to the next encounter that uses creatures/traps that cause fear. Because they succesfully got the answer, they get a bonus to their saves vs fear effects.

If the get it wrong 3 times, then a fear trap triggers that causes them to flee etc.

That or give them riddle-puzzles that also have a visual clue either in the room or the previous room.

For example, there could be a large pile of items in the middle of a room surrounded by several alcoves.

In the pile are your normal loot - gold coins, jewels, weapons, armour, but also more mundane items - a fiddle, a horn, several goblets etc. Make sure you describe everything though, and not just the answers.

Each alcove has a riddle on it (nothing too hard, mind you) and the corresponding answer is an item in the pile. Once they get them all set in place, something opens etc.

But yes, as others have mentioned don't use riddles as the only way ahead, use them on side passages/quests/adventures.

TheThan
2011-11-14, 06:59 PM
How DMs think putting riddles in his game will resolve:

-After putting their heads together, the PCs work out the correct answer to the riddle, based off the subtle hints the riddle gave them.

How it actually works out will vary:

-The riddle is one that's been done before in some popular fiction. Thus, you can be guaranteed that at least one of the players have heard it before, and will rattle off the answer before you're even done with your narration.

-The riddle is one that's been done before, but comes from a source that the players have never encountered; alternatively, the riddle is a creation of the DM's. The players will not be in the mindset required to solve the riddle. They will get more and more exasperated as they throw guess after guess down the hole, until everyone's sick of it, and either you give them the answer yourself, or the PCs give up or attempt to stab whatever is issuing the riddle.

there is no real way to solve problem one. but problem two has an easy answer. Allow your riddles to have multiple "right" answers. so if the PCs don't get onto the Dm's train of thought, another answer will get them by the hurdle and not stall out the adventure.

jackattack
2011-11-14, 07:35 PM
Another option is to allow any answer to get the players through the situation, but the correct answer gives them a bonus or eliminates a penalty.

For example, if answering a riddle opens a door, then any answer will open the door. A correct answer might disarm a trap just beyond the door, or make the door open silently.

There is a clear reward for answering correctly, but the riddle doesn't become a choke-point.

Emmerask
2011-11-14, 07:40 PM
Another option is to allow any answer to get the players through the situation, but the correct answer gives them a bonus or eliminates a penalty.

For example, if answering a riddle opens a door, then any answer will open the door. A correct answer might disarm a trap just beyond the door, or make the door open silently.

There is a clear reward for answering correctly, but the riddle doesn't become a choke-point.

Any answer might be a bit too much in my opinion, but a sufficiently intelligent and halfway correct answer... yep I would and have allowed it as a dm.

eulmanis12
2011-11-14, 07:45 PM
can't offer suggestions on how to use them properly that have not already been said but I can give you some examples of the ones I've used.
(Note, my group includes a bunch of very close friends who have known eachother for most of our lives (we all grew up within walking/biking distance of eachother's homes) and thus can easily think like eachother, this does make riddles that we come up with a little more fun/solvable)

Easy riddle. Delivered steriotypicaly by a Sphinx. What runs constantly but never goes anywhere?
Answer: A river

Medium riddle. Delivered by runes on cave wall above 3 doors, one leading directly to the treasure room, one to a room full of ogers, and the last to a 10 foot drop into the local sewers. We were in a nation that was similar to ancient India.
The way to enlightenment.
Answer: The middle door
Reason: In both Buddhisim and Hinduisim the way to enlightenment is called the Middle path. (yes I know real world trivia in D&D, but they probably would never get it if I searched a source book for a D&D equivalent)


Hardest riddle, Evil General who likes to torment players with subtle clues as to his next move, calls the PC's "a bunch of combat virgins"
Context: the information was useful but non critical, the players knew it meant something as the last line that the Evil General says in a conversation ALWAYS means something.
Answer: this is a riddle inside a riddle inside a riddle
Virgins refers to the poem To the Virgins the first line of which is "Gather ye Rosebuds while ye may" Rosebuds in turn refered to the movie Citizen Kane in which the main character had a sled named Rosebud. Sleds are used in winter and thus gathering sleds suggests a winter activity, this cryptic clue thus meant that there was going to be a winter offensive by the bad guys.
Time it took to solve: These guys are good a riddles, (they get lots of practice) the cracked this one in the time I took me to go get the chips and dip from the kitchen. (I gave the riddle to them as something to think about while we set up)

all of these were used successfully in campaign. The second and third I made up on my own, the first I stole from ... somewhere I can't remember.

TheCountAlucard
2011-11-14, 08:38 PM
there is no real way to solve problem one. but problem one has an easy answer.I'm going to just assume you meant "problem two," that second time. :smalltongue:

Traab
2011-11-14, 09:06 PM
Leave clues in the room to solve the riddle. For example, you have a riddle whose answer is time. A search of the room reveals subtle carvings that include things like clocks, or calenders of ancient design, whatever. The higher the roll, the better the clue they find. A really crappy roll might only get them, "There appear to be numbers carved into the walls." A better roll might be, "Your character spots what looks like an ancient calendar." And a really good roll would be. "You notice there are several mosaics on the floor, and tapestries on the wall, all of them involve things like clocks, calenders for various races, and images showing people growing from childhood to old age."

All that is in addition to the actual riddle itself. So they get the rule of three involved, The first way is to figure out the riddle yourself. The second path is getting the clue and guessing the answer. With my suggestion of better and better clues depending on the skill check, there isnt an all or nothing result, just more and more obvious clues. Then for the third, I like the idea of a guardian fight after a few failed guesses that lets the party move on. Make it a tough fight, with no loot, just a way past the locked door or whatever.

Beleriphon
2011-11-14, 09:29 PM
I'm going to chime in and say don't make the riddle the only answer. Take a page from most CRPGs that include riddles. The riddle, usually pretty easy, lets you bypass a fight, usually and easy but annoying fight. So if the riddle is on a door and you get it wrong, a low level monster springs to life and attacks.

I think one of the better examples is from Dragon Age: Origins when you get riddled by some spirits to open the door at the end of a room. Should fail the riddle you get to fight the spirit, getting the answer right gives more XP than the fight does incidentally.

TheThan
2011-11-14, 10:21 PM
I'm going to just assume you meant "problem two," that second time. :smalltongue:

yeah typo, I'll fix it.

Anxe
2011-11-14, 10:28 PM
Treasure Trove (http://www.thievesguild.cc/riddles/) of riddles. I'm sure you can come up with a few hints for those.

Jay R
2011-11-14, 10:45 PM
Use riddles of the sort that these players are good at. If they are good with words, use wordplay riddles.

But if they don't enjoy solving problems - for instance, if they would rather roll an INT check -- then don't give them riddles, for the same reason that you wouldn't play D&D with them if they don't enjoy it.

The Dark Fiddler
2011-11-15, 04:13 PM
Wait a minute...


Actually, I think the last one was supposed to be, "never in a thousand years." :smallconfused:

Indeed it was. That's what happens when I decide not to cover my ass by stating that I'm paraphrasing the DM :smallredface:

Ravens_cry
2011-11-15, 04:30 PM
Use riddles of the sort that these players are good at. If they are good with words, use wordplay riddles.

But if they don't enjoy solving problems - for instance, if they would rather roll an INT check -- then don't give them riddles, for the same reason that you wouldn't play D&D with them if they don't enjoy it.That in a lot of ways, is another problem with a riddles. They are a test of player knowledge and skill and not the characters. Say you have a player who is very good at riddles in and of themselves and enjoys solving them.
But right now they are playing Morg the Mangler, who is third person stupid. The average brick has more between its ears.
Does it make sense the Mangler be the one who answers the riddle?
Word play riddles are a bit immersion breaking in anything but a modern game.
"Wait, you're telling me a pun about the letters of the alphabet and units of time translates as well into Elvish as it does English?"

Boci
2011-11-16, 12:16 AM
That in a lot of ways, is another problem with a riddles. They are a test of player knowledge and skill and not the characters. Say you have a player who is very good at riddles in and of themselves and enjoys solving them.
But right now they are playing Morg the Mangler, who is third person stupid. The average brick has more between its ears.
Does it make sense the Mangler be the one who answers the riddle?
Word play riddles are a bit immersion breaking in anything but a modern game.
"Wait, you're telling me a pun about the letters of the alphabet and units of time translates as well into Elvish as it does English?"

I really feel too much emphasis gets put on this point. Mainly because this is an issue regardless of whether or not riddles are used. What about when the barbarian comes up with a stunningly strategic plan of attack and the wizard just suggests they charge and the rogue forgets to look for traps?

Yes riddles can be problomatic and need to be handled carefully. But I also feel that many posters on this forum go out of their way to find problems with them.

TheCountAlucard
2011-11-16, 12:24 AM
I really feel too much emphasis gets put on this point. Mainly because this is an issue regardless of whether or not riddles are used. What about when the barbarian comes up with a stunningly strategic plan of attack and the wizard just suggests they charge and the rogue forgets to look for traps?

Yes riddles can be problomatic and need to be handled carefully. But I also feel that many posters on this forum go out of their way to find problems with them.I'd agree with you if instances of riddles didn't turn out like previously mentioned, each and every time they came up. :smallsigh:

Ravens_cry
2011-11-16, 12:38 AM
I really feel too much emphasis gets put on this point. Mainly because this is an issue regardless of whether or not riddles are used. What about when the barbarian comes up with a stunningly strategic plan of attack and the wizard just suggests they charge and the rogue forgets to look for traps?

Yes riddles can be problomatic and need to be handled carefully. But I also feel that many posters on this forum go out of their way to find problems with them.
A good role player can sublimate whatever skills they may personally posses to better fit the role they created for themselves. Its more familiarly known as "not metagaming." Sure, it's hard to role play someone with preternatural, if not supernatural, mental attributes authentically, but one can try ones best and a clueless rogue can learn to do better.
But a riddle basically asks the players to metagame.
It's even worse if it contains real world references, like the riddle mentioned that includes references to an Orson Welles film.
Even if it was a much simpler, any player could be forgiven for asking "Now how the <expletive redacted/> was my character supposed to know that?!"

Templarkommando
2011-11-16, 03:38 AM
Some of this is gonna be a rehash of what's already been said, some of it's not:

1. How riddles work in your campaign world depends entirely on how your players feel about riddles.

2. If you do decide to go with riddles, consider very carefully before making a riddle dependent on the main plot.

3. Tailor your riddles to how intelligent your PCs are. If you're playing with a party consisting of an engineer, a pre-law student, pre-med, mathematics, and an college English professor, you might want to ramp up the difficulty of your riddles. If you're dealing with 5 fourteen year-olds on the other hand, you're dealing with a horse of a different color.

4. I remember back to Baldur's Gate 2. You wind up in a dungeon (I think it's Spellhold) and there are several random items lying around the dungeon in crates and whatever. Long story short the things that are lying around the dungeon get placed on the riddle pedestal to solve the riddle. Be careful about this though or you'll get the answer "we'll just cycle all of the answer tokens onto the pedestal. You could try making a certain percentage of their wealth disappear if they just start throwing guesses around... damage is another option.

5. If I were to make a riddle that was related to the plot it would be done like this: The Riddle Chest holds the correspondence of a person that the party is helping. If they answer the riddle correctly they discover that she's actually planning to have the party ambushed so they can take the party's equipment/get vengeace for some wrong etc. If they don't correctly answer the chest, then the trap gets sprung on them. Something like that...

Lvl45DM!
2011-11-16, 03:52 AM
You say you like riddles in the dark bit in the hobbit. Well make your riddles like that. Not the mines of moria.
If the party fails they are attacked or miss out on something good.
Never have 'door riddles' or if you do, at least make them able to have their lock picked or broken down. I don't care how good dwarves are at stonework its just a stone bloody door they should be able to break it eventually.
That said i love riddles in games! As long as they are campaign oriented, so no pop-culture references, but its always a good change of pace from combat and its sometimes hard to include roleplay or puzzle solving in dungeons without relying only on the thief character

Ravens_cry
2011-11-16, 03:55 AM
There is always the Barbarian Lockpick™ for the more troublesome doors.The Barbarian Trapfinder™ is also of use.

Jay R
2011-11-17, 12:46 AM
I really feel too much emphasis gets put on this point. Mainly because this is an issue regardless of whether or not riddles are used. What about when the barbarian comes up with a stunningly strategic plan of attack and the wizard just suggests they charge and the rogue forgets to look for traps?

Yes riddles can be problomatic and need to be handled carefully. But I also feel that many posters on this forum go out of their way to find problems with them.

In my first game (OD&D - 1975), the issue came up in the fact that Eric was always going to do something stupid, no matter how high his character's INT was, because he was not tactically minded. Meanwhile, Richard was going to do something reasonable, no matter how low his character's INT was, because he was careful and methodical.

There are only two possible self-consistent solutions.
A. At every decision, don't give the players the choices. Hand them a die, and if they roll well enough for their INT, then their character does the right thing.
B. Redefine "INT" to mean magical intuition and ability to recall info about the world", and let the player's cleverness and decisions determine what the player does.

Advocates of each side will vehemently state that the other approach isn't "really" role-playing, with equally valid arguments. The discussion has been going on for at least 36 years, and I see no sign of it slowing down.

GungHo
2011-11-17, 02:52 PM
there is no real way to solve problem one. but problem two has an easy answer. Allow your riddles to have multiple "right" answers. so if the PCs don't get onto the Dm's train of thought, another answer will get them by the hurdle and not stall out the adventure.
Yeah, this. Nothing derails an adventure or pisses people off more than an unnecessarily vague riddle. Especially from a smug-ass GM who refuses to budge. There are easier ways to start a brawl, but none more certain. You might as well have them put together a swing set or put up wallpaper while you're at it.

And, if it really takes too long and words start getting heated, let 'em roll for it after a certain amount of time. Sure, it's not as clever or as personally rewarding, but the characters don't need to suffer just because their players are thick-skulled.

TheCountAlucard
2011-11-17, 03:10 PM
There are easier ways to start a brawl, but none more certain."Hey! Aren't you Richard Simmons?"

"Hey! Aren't you Richard Simmons' best friend, Richard Simmons?"

:smalltongue:

Boci
2011-11-17, 06:59 PM
There are only two possible self-consistent solutions.
A. At every decision, don't give the players the choices. Hand them a die, and if they roll well enough for their INT, then their character does the right thing.
B. Redefine "INT" to mean magical intuition and ability to recall info about the world", and let the player's cleverness and decisions determine what the player does.

Option three: Do nothing and just accept that it is inevitable that sometimes player will make their character act in a way outside the normal scope of their intelligence scores.

Rorrik
2011-11-19, 03:48 PM
I'm a big fan of riddles, personally, but it may just be because I like solving them. I would recommend using riddles that have answers in the context of the civilization and world where they find them. For example, if historically the nearby town was destroyed by a rampaging demon and they find an entrance to what they suspect is the study of an ancient mage. Above it could be a riddle like.

Far and long, the power sought,
Deep and dark, the deed wrought,
From distant realm called his name,
And thus awoke eternal shame.
Death and Fire beyond the gate,
Power, driven by eternal hate...

The answer isn't clear itself, and maybe there's no reason for them to have to be in the study, but if they've asked around and learned the local lore, they may suspect the study is the study of the mage who released the demon and find the answer. It also provides an easy way to give hints: "you remember the villagers telling you about a town destroyed nearby by a demon a century ago." and the like. It explains itself as a lock on the mage's shameful past and why the magically equipped study was left by him.

I guess all in all I'm most fond of contextual riddles that can help further the quest by understanding the world the characters live in, but other riddles can be a diversion too.


DM thought it was fun to give out epic magic items that required solving riddles to unlock their powers.
I like this idea in particular. They don't need the item and they can think about it at their leisure. I might put a limit on the guesses on person can make before the item rejects them forever (or some other period).

dangermunk
2011-11-22, 11:10 PM
One thing that is incredibly cliched but would probably work is to have some (ancient?) guardians ask a riddle. If the party gets it in three tries, they gain access to the treasure the guardians have (within their bodies?). If they do not get the answer, they must fight the guardians, and may damage the treasure in the process. Here we have three (at least) ways to get through
1. Sneak past
2. Battle them
3. Answer the riddle

Try this one I made
It can be taken, caught, or lost
But can't be given, found, or tossed
It can be even, forced, or deep
It stops in eternal sleep
It can be sudden, cold, or loud
In crystal it forms a cloud

Feel free to present it one line at a time, use the first two/four lines only, or separate the couplets

( by the way, the answer is breath)

Con_Brio1993
2011-11-22, 11:57 PM
In my experience the problem with this is the problem with general 1 answer solutions in RPGs. Your players won't be able to read your mind. What you think is obvious and conventional is exactly what they wont do.

They'll give alternate answers that (might) make sense, and it will be annoying if you reject their alternate answers.

Ravens_cry
2011-11-23, 05:19 AM
Try this one I made
It can be taken, caught, or lost
But can't be given, found, or tossed
It can be even, forced, or deep
It stops in eternal sleep
It can be sudden, cold, or loud
In crystal it forms a cloud
( by the way, the answer is breath)
I am inordinately pleased I got that.:smallbiggrin:

Dimonite
2011-11-24, 11:32 PM
First, let me say that I am gifted with brilliant players and a vast repository of riddles to choose from.
That being said, this is how I handle riddles: for every riddle, my players could either try to solve it themselves or make an INT check. If they used the INT check, however, they didn't get XP for solving the riddle. This way, they can take the riddles at any pace they like, and there is a definite reward for figuring it out themselves. I am pleased to say that they solved five riddles in under half an hour.

Victoria
2011-11-25, 12:45 AM
Worst example was a campaign where the DM made a bunch of doors with riddles on them that could only be opened by solving the riddle. There were no clues anywhere as to how to solve the riddle, except the riddle itself, and no other way to proceed with the adventure at hand without solving it. So we'd hit this door then waste anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hours trying to guess the answer to the riddle.

I also had another campaign where a different DM thought it was fun to give out epic magic items that required solving riddles to unlock their powers. So after getting treasure, the next week or two was everyone sitting around asking the DM "Is the answer to the riddle this?" to be able to take advantage of their loot. It was kind of cool and flavorful, but really ****ing annoying. Better because it was something to be handled during downtime.

My suggestions:
1) If you do include riddles, make hints easily available. Try to follow the rule of 3 (that is three hints of varying degrees of obviousness). Award bonus experience if they figure it out without the hints.

2) Make the riddles entirely optional. Solving a riddle might let you bypass an encounter, take a short cut through a secret passage, or something like that, but isn't strictly necessary to get where you need to go.

#2 is my preferred option actually, after having run the classic White Plume Mountain adventure in a campaign once, where a gynosphinx guarded an intersection, allowing adventurers to pass safely if they answered a riddle associated with each hallway, but it was a CR 8 monster guarding passageways in an adventure for 7th-level characters. They could have easily just attacked and most likely won instead, if they preferred that approach.

I don't often use riddles, but that particular one, which I ran so long ago, hinted to me a DMing philosophy which I've stuck with ever since then: any given encounter should have at least two (preferably more, but in the riddle case specifically, often only two) methods of "defeating".

Hence why I tend to populate dungeons now with only "mildly" hostile monsters. Any given fully hostile monster, by nature (unless you specifically set it up otherwise) can be "defeated" by either killing in direct combat or sneaking past. However, since they're only mildly hostile, the way I roleplay them at least, the common third option is to negotiate their way past them instead.

Of course, I tend to DM for players who are almost always extremely good-aligned and often exalted, so for them, combat is often a last resort after other options are exhausted.

Sudain
2011-11-27, 04:35 AM
Riddles are awesome in DnD games. If you are going to use a real world riddle just tell them that. It does break immerision but it's a nice break; so use it as such. One thing I strongly suggest is to make sure all riddles are 100% optional, unless they are very easy to bypass.