One PC’s Moral Dilemma: Metagame or PvP?

[TheRinni]

So, another player has put me in a sticky situation. I don’t quite know what to do. Here’s the story:

Several sessions back, my character encountered her old fiancé. They were childhood friends, and the two remained close even after their arranged marriage was canceled. He said he needed a favor, and my character agreed to help. Halfway through the quest, he turned on the party. His unrequited love had driven him insane, and this journey was just a ruse to kill my character. His betrayal was absolutely devastating to my character, and she spent the next week in a perpetual state of drunkenness.

Our (Sorcerer/Cleric) Geomancer raised my ex-fiancé to be his undead cohort. I told him, out of game, that it’d be fine as long as my character didn’t find out. I honestly believe my character would try everything in her power to kill her undead previous-fiancé, and told him this.

A few sessions ago, the Geomancer revealed his cohort’s true identity to my ex-fiancé’s father. His father, as the new king of a land, ordered his guards to kill the abomination. The player threw an absolute fit. He said his character would fight to the death, rather than let his cohort die. “It’s unfair,” he said. The DM ended up retconning the entire event.

Lately, the Geomancer has been growing increasingly… arrogant. He keeps intentionally “slipping up,” around my character, hinting unsubtly that his cohort is actually my ex-fiancé. My character isn’t stupid. I honestly think she would have caught on to a couple of the things he said. I’ve metagame’d those realizations away; the player has made it clear he’d rather have this character die than lose his cohort, and I’d like to avoid PvP. The DM is very much against character deaths.

I’m growing annoyed. The Geomancer believes he can utterly destroy my character in PvP, and his attempts to provoke me are getting old. I’m tired of having to pretend like my character is more oblivious than she is. She’s supposed to be a clever character, and I feel like he’s undermining my playing by forcing me to metagame.

Also, I believe I would win in combat - despite him being a spellcaster, and me a two-weapon-fighter. He is incredibly un-optimized. I’m, essentially, using the Jack B. Quick style of Karmatic Strike + Double up + Improved Trip, and Knock Down thrown in to give me a trip attempt every hit. I’ve also taken the Mage Slayer feat, and am intending to take Pierce Magical Protection next level. He would still have the advantage if we were to fight at anything greater than melee range. However, my character would confront his before resorting to violence. This means they would be within talking distance if she ever decided to attack him.

So, that’s the gist of it. I’ve talked to this player, out of game, a few times and will do so again before attacking his character. He knows the consequences of what he’s doing, and how I will react to it. Should I continue to ignore his bait, acting against how my character would act for the sake of peace at the table – or should I roleplay my character through, taking refuge in the fact that I warned him?

[legomaster00156]

You warned him, and he did not heed your warnings. KILL HIM. >:D

[TroubleBrewing]

You warned him, and he did not heed your warnings. KILL HIM. >:D

Horrible advice.

Obligatory reading. (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/tll307KmEm4H9k6efFP.html) This requires an out-of-game solution. Have you tried just talking with the DM?

[Caphi]

This isn't an IC dilemma. He's trolling you. Confront him directly and straightforwardly, not about the IC drama, but about the OOC dickishness being perpetrated. If that fails, escalate it to the GM.

[0nimaru]

Why does the cohort matter to him so much? Is it just the stats/class/power of it? Could you arrange with the DM to handwave it to be the same build, but a different non-mortal shell?

If he isn't up for that as a solution, then he is just doing it to annoy you and you need to resolve it OoC. If he claims he wants to keep it for roleplaying purposes, then he is roleplaying a person who wants to force you to attack him. PvP shouldn't the resolution, but it seems he is pushing for it. The fallout of it.. depends on how mature the group is.

[PrinceOfMadness]

Actions have consequences. You warned him (OOC, to be sure) that your character would be...upset...if he was found out, and he has apparently chosen to ignore that warning. If he's role-playing how he thinks his character would act, that's fine, now role-play yours the way you think yours would act. For example, in my Deathwatch game the Black Templar Apothecary started a duel with the Space Wolf Rune-Priest because of his hatred of psykers. No bad feelings around the table, everyone understood that's how the characters would act. IF he's role-playing, he should understand. If not....

In that case, you've got a problem simmering. Judging from what you've said, this sounds like it might be the case anyway. You'll probably need to deal with this out of game. The solution might be as simple as talking to the other guy. In the worst case scenario, someone ends up leaving the game. Has this guy been a problem consistently? Is he a problem to other players? Are you enjoying the game regardless of his pestering? All of these are questions that should be answered.

[docnessuno]

Quite simple: talk with youd DM, if he's fine with justified PvP action, then go for it.
Normally i would also ask the same question to the "target", but since he seems to be "provoking" you i'd skip this step.

[The Dark Fiddler]

Quite simple: talk with youd DM, if he's fine with justified PvP action, then go for it.

I have to agree here. PvP isn't always a bad thing. Tell him outright one last time, though, that if your character realizes the cohort is the fiance, it's getting destroyed.

[Lord Vukodlak]

The cohort should have died when they met the King. If he was stupid enough to reveal the truth of his misdeeds to the victims &*)&)*&@ dad he deserves what he gets.

0nimaru describes the situation perfectly, he's keeping it around to bother you, so either confront him in game or try talk to him OOC. Though before confronting him in-game you might want to see if the others will assist you.

Also i suggest this feat, my Occult Slayer finds its very helpful on conjuction with mage slayer.(its from pathfinder but it should work fine in 3.5).

Step Up (Combat)
You can close the distance when a foe tries to move away.
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: Whenever an adjacent foe attempts to take a 5-foot step away from you, you may also make a 5-foot step as an immediate action so long as you end up adjacent to the foe that triggered this ability. If you take this step, you cannot take a 5-foot step during your next turn. If you take an action to move during your next turn, subtract 5 feet from your total movement.

No more "I take a five foot step back" safety net.

[Psyren]

Obligatory reading. (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/tll307KmEm4H9k6efFP.html)

Emphasis for resized

[TroubleBrewing]

Emphasis for resized

Thanks, I always forget to do that myself.

[The_Jackal]

Talk to the other PCs and have his character expelled from the party. Given how conniving and backstabby the Geomancer is, this should not be hard.

[illyrus]

Call the player's mother and explain that you can no longer babysit Billy anymore.

Your DM dropped the ball on this one, as a DM I would have made it worse for the PC if I watched the player pitch a 2 year old style fit then remind the player that it was just a game and he needed to calm down. With the current (in)actions the player knows he can get away with anything he wants to and feels invulnerable as the DM isn't going to touch him.

I'd talk with the DM first, explain your thoughts and issues and listen to his or her thoughts. What the two of you decide will be the next step sort of deal. If and only if you are good friends with the other player would I talk to him first in a situation like this.

[JoeYounger]

Idk, it depends on how you are as a person, and as a player in the campaign. This guy is doing this to be a ****. If you're a cool person, talk to him. Tell him he's being a **** and that you're not going to take it. He needs to quit his ****, or you're going to get him kicked out of the campaign. Not his character, him. Dnd is a game to be played and enjoyed. Don't let some douchebag cause problems for the rest of the group even if he can justify it by roleplaying.

[vitkiraven]

If it comes down to the Geomancer must die, take a page from revenge is a dish best served cold. Wait. Wait until the moment is right. Wait and let the obviously evil actions of this fiend fester, and then, when he is at his weakest, do it.
Kill him in the night, in his sleep, with a gun.
Sorry, unforgotten realms speaking, but seriously, if things can't be worked out, do his character in, but on your terms, not his. Preferably on the cusp of some major achievement for him. Let him know that in another realm, people can only take so much.
This isn't the most honorable path, but it would be damn amusing, if the night before he'd get ninth level spells, you guard the party, on your shift, and just slip, and cut off his head. Accidentally of course.

[JoeYounger]

If it comes down to the Geomancer must die, take a page from revenge is a dish best served cold. Wait. Wait until the moment is right. Wait and let the obviously evil actions of this fiend fester, and then, when he is at his weakest, do it.
Kill him in the night, in his sleep, with a gun.
Sorry, unforgotten realms speaking, but seriously, if things can't be worked out, do his character in, but on your terms, not his. Preferably on the cusp of some major achievement for him. Let him know that in another realm, people can only take so much.
This isn't the most honorable path, but it would be damn amusing, if the night before he'd get ninth level spells, you guard the party, on your shift, and just slip, and cut off his head. Accidentally of course.

Agreed, and its even sweeter when he starts to reroll and then you explain that cause he was such a **** he's not really welcome in the party anymore.

[Arcane_Snowman]

Why is violence the first course of action? I think this is one of D&D biggest problems, it advocates violence as the best in game solution. Which is completely and utterly silly. I mean, think about it, is your character someone who would kill a compatriot, just because they were doing something wrong? You don't do that in real life do you? Find out your friend is shoplifting, your response wouldn't be to beat them within an inch of their lives because you disapprove, would it?

By all means, this a gross violation of her person, but violence isn't the answer here, have your character talk it out with his, saying stuff about this could cost him their continued friendship or her good will etc., if the character still declines, take steps. Destroy the undead when he's sleeping, render it unraisable, burn the body or some-such, then call it a day.

If the player kicks up a fuss, and tries to get the DM to retcon the situation again (which he honestly shouldn't have done in the first place, there were clear consequences of the players choices and actions, and he should have stood to ransom for them. You're taunting a parent with his child's corpse for Pelor's sake) have the DM retcon it to some other undead cohort, the fact that it's your character's ex-fiance is clearly going to be disruptive to gameplay, so why not just change that and solve the whole issue?

[vitkiraven]

Why is violence the first course of action?

Because, some folks, you just can't reason with,
So you get what we have here today,
Now I don't like it any more than you do,
But that's what he wants, and so, he gets it...


But seriously, if someone was using necromantic energies to raise a friend and former romantic interest of mine, I'd probably off them irl, and be able to be let off on temporary insanity, but that's just the desecration of the dead.
Grieve for the soul, in death dishonored.

[Coidzor]

Agreed, and its even sweeter when he starts to reroll and then you explain that cause he was such a **** he's not really welcome in the party anymore.

No, then you just become what you ostensibly hate.

[JoeYounger]

No, then you just become what you ostensibly hate.

Nah, I have no problem kicking someone out of the campaign because they're trying to make the game less fun for someone else. No problem whatsoever.

[Arcane_Snowman]

Because, some folks, you just can't reason with,
So you get what we have here today,
Now I don't like it any more than you do,
But that's what he wants, and so, he gets it... See, this is the part I take umbrage to, why give him what he wants? He's clearly trying to goad her into fighting him for his pleasure, so why do it? Hand a note to the DM before or in the game saying that when the necromancer is sleeping you stuff the corpse into your bag of holding, don't tell the player anything but the fact that it's gone seeing as he wouldn't know anything else. Then when you get the chance you put the corpse to rest in such a fashion that he can't try again.

Don't give in to the troll, don't stoop to his level, whether you win or loose the fight, he's won anyway cause he dragged you down with him.


But seriously, if someone was using necromantic energies to raise a friend and former romantic interest of mine, I'd probably off them irl, and be able to be let off on temporary insanity, but that's just the desecration of the dead.
Grieve for the soul, in death dishonored. Yeah, but IRL that's not something we can possibly do, and neither can we contact the diseased or bring them back to life if we so truly desire. D&D is not like the real world and all of our moralities can't be drawn in direct analogue to it. If she's seen the necromancer raise the dead before and not freaked out and slain him for the abomination onto nature that he is exercising, a very reasonable IRL thing to do no matter who he'd be raising, then she's clearly okay with it on some level.

I'd liken this act more akin to blackmailing IRL, he's clearly doing something of questionable morals, but where she before would've been fine with it because it'd further her goals, now he's doing it to someone she cares about, and because of that, she wants it to cease.

[Urpriest]

Since nobody's done it yet, let's consider whether the Geomancer is doing something positive:

Maybe instead of trying to instigate PvP, he's trying to set up a plot by which your character confronts his and, via some series of mutual revelations, you decide to let him keep his cohort, gaining some measure of closure and/or character development in the process? I would still suggest discussing it beforehand, since he may have an incorrect view of your character. But provided this guy is a reasonable person, that could be all he's going for.

[Anarchy_Kanya]

You don't do that in real life do you? Find out your friend is shoplifting, your response wouldn't be to beat them within an inch of their lives because you disapprove, would it?
IRL killing or assaulting people is illegal.
In D&D it's the whole point of playing and the whole system is based on one premise - killing/beating up stuff and taking their stuff.

[vitkiraven]

He's clearly trying to goad her into fighting him for his pleasure, so why do it? ...

Yeah, but IRL that's not something we can possibly do, and neither can we contact the diseased or bring them back to life if we so truly desire... D&D is not like the real world and all of our moralities can't be drawn in direct analogue to it...
That's why I say do it while his character while he's asleep. No satisfaction of drawing into him into a battle. Just a flat, when you wake up, he doesn't. No answers as to why, just roll. You don't have to be glib about it if you don't want.
I didn't know that there had been previous undead raised, but then again, there is a psychological disconnect in the mind between someone you knew, and a random enemy that might have hurt you, or a random person no one knew. It has actually been proven in testing, people are less likely to care about people they never knew, rather than those they know.
I would have likened it to cannibalism, personally, but if the character had witnessed it before, then the point isn't as correct.

[Arcane_Snowman]

IRL killing or assaulting people is illegal.
In D&D it's the whole point of playing and the whole system is based on one premise - killing/beating up stuff and taking their stuff. The whole system is based off of that notion and actively encourages it, I agree. But it's by no means the whole point of playing. Role-playing can be done any way you want, irregardless of system, (mind role-playing as DBZ characters with Call of Cthulhu would be a bit weird, and cumbersome, but who am I to judge. Anyway), so even though dungeons and dragons's standard way of adventuring can more or less be boiled down to sociopaths happily killing everyone they encounter and robbing 'em blind, that doesn't necessarily mean that's how it's being played. People may very well instill some measure of real-life equivalence into their game.

The OP presented a conundrum, where her perceived options were meta-gaming to avoid conflict to avoid conflict, and staying in character and start conflict. I presented a rationale and potential points of view for her character that would allow her to stay in character and avoid conflict.


I didn't know that there had been previous undead raised, but then again, there is a psychological disconnect in the mind between someone you knew, and a random enemy that might have hurt you, or a random person no one knew. It has actually been proven in testing, people are less likely to care about people they never knew, rather than those they know.
I would have likened it to cannibalism, personally, but if the character had witnessed it before, then the point isn't as correct. Well, that's me making an assumption, seeing as she's made no mention of necromancy itself as something that disconcerts her character, but who the recipient of the necromancy instead.

[Coidzor]

Why is the DM putting up with this childishness and what did he say on the matter?

[TheGeckoKing]

Since you've already warned him OOC that if he reveals the corpse's identity, then your character would be pretty stabby about the whole situation, I don't see why you should humour him anymore.
Roll Sense Motive, torch the walking corpse, tear the Geomancer apart, Trap the Soul where appropriate, put gems and bodies alike in a bag of holding and toss the bag into the nearest portable hole. GG and goodbye.

[Calanon]

OP, I have to applaud your noble sacrifice of your characters beliefs to maintain the flow of the group, that being said: Kill the Geomancer, If it were me I would have slaughtered him ages ago and laughed the entire time while doing it However, I am a much lesser person than you are my friend :smalltongue:

[Metahuman1]

I'd take the time to build and join an affiliation, get a few luck Rerolls form it as a membership benefit, and the ability to get some questions answered form Divination magic once a month or something.

That way, when you finish him, guess what, if you roll a nat 1, you can reroll it a few times until you have something that hits. Just make sure you buff yourself heavily before hand so your damage is out the wazu, wouldn't want him to make a save.

It also makes sure you've got an easy RP way to know what's up with him.

And yes, the feat to do the 5-ft step and Peirce Magical Concealment are excellent, you want both of them. Maybe make one of them an affiliation benefit as well so that you can have both if a pitched fight becomes necessary.









But before you do any of that, talk to the DM, with out the player anywhere near by, in confidence, and tell him point blank that this is insane and it's got to stop, one way or another. And that while you respect he doesn't care for character death and have gone out of your way to avoid this, the other player is now dangerously close to provoking PVP, and SOMEONE'S character is gonna die if that starts. With any luck, he'll rule on the next Random Encounter that the Cohort is annihilated beyond any hope of recovery and then when you get to town another equally formidable Cohort will show up for the player to shut him up, and then at the first break there after DM will pull him aside and say. "Ok, you had your fun messing with her character, now it's time to stop it. Understood?"


Edit: Almost forgot, you should also talk to the other players and make sure there either gonna come down on your side, or stay out of it all together. Wouldn't do for the whole party to gang up on you.

[Dayzgone]

You told him out of game x times that you won’t stand for this. Confront him once more about it, and if he continues, get player and DM support. Then kill the undead, if whoever this player is really does care about the game or you character, he won’t throw a fit and you all can move on with the game.

Better yet, get another player do it for you. Let’s say that your character was in a state of denial, refusing to accept the reality in front of her. So finally one of her other more trusted comrade’s deciders that he cannot stand this injustice any longer. He had ignored it out of shear merit of the undead usefulness, but now he has gone too far, and refuses to watch his friend slowly spiral into insanity.

[The Glyphstone]

The DM is, evidently, a grade A doormat, so there likely won't be any help there. See if you can recruit the other players to your side though.

[Slipperychicken]

Turn your past metagaming to your advantage. If there's a convenient opportunity to murder him (he's weak, dangling on a ledge, etc), give your character an "A-ha!" moment, where she finally connects the dots, which she admits *should* have been so obvious from the get-go, but she lost them in the moment or whatever. She looks at the cohort, back at necro, and says "You turned [Lovers name] into that.. that THING. YOU MONSTER!". Proceed to murder in whatever way seems most brutal/appropriate.


EDIT: Prior to confrontation, get an AMF or other suitable buff (UMD/Scroll/used-up wand, possibly from a PC?), so you tear right through whatever defense he thought he had. Remember that AMFs are invisible, and that characters don't get notifications when their buffs go down. Since you'll have tripped him, he most likely won't be getting out of the Field in one piece.

[TheRinni]

I forgot to mention some relevant information that may explain why this player has been a bit… “negatively inclined” towards my character. This is a sea campaign, and I built a character with levels in Dread Pirate and Legendary Captain to fulfill the charismatic Pirate Captain roll. At the end of the first session, I killed the previous captain of an intelligent, magical ship and the title – and ownership of the ship - was magically passed down to me. You can only become the captain of this ancient vessel by killing the previous captain.

The player was annoyed that I gained this – despite me being obviously more built for it. His character resents authority, and it has been a struggle throughout the game. I have avoided commanding, and ordering, the other players by giving them high ranks on the ship and putting all decisions to a vote amongst them. Despite this, the player was still upset. He wanted to be co-captain, at the very least. I can’t help but think all this is just his way of getting back at me, though he denies that OOG.



The OP presented a conundrum, where her perceived options were meta-gaming to avoid conflict to avoid conflict, and staying in character and start conflict. I presented a rationale and potential points of view for her character that would allow her to stay in character and avoid conflict.
My character’s first instinct would be to attack the undead creation – however she would not attack the crew member without trying to reason with him first. The player would not react well to being told “get that vile abomination off my ship,” which would be my character’s initial reaction. The player would threaten to leave the party, because he resents being told to do anything, and then chaos would ensue at the table as the DM tried to cater to everyone’s demands.


Why is the DM putting up with this childishness and what did he say on the matter?
He is the DM’s best friend, and a close friend of everyone in the group. The DM knows that this player has created a dickish character, and is letting me handle the situation as I see fit.


The DM is, evidently, a grade A doormat, so there likely won't be any help there. See if you can recruit the other players to your side though.
- And for everyone else asking if I’ve talked to the other players at the table.
The other characters are all very loyal to me. I am their captain, and they trust me to see after their best interests. This applies to the players as well, they all trust me to do what's fair. The DM gave me this position in-game not only because I built my character for it, but also because I have the maturity to lead the party.


The more I think about it, I think I’ve come up with a good in-game solution. Assuming the Geomancer does not outright attempt to kill me after taking a swipe at his pet, I will hold a trial amongst the crewmembers. As I’ve stated, I try to put all decisions to a vote, to keep things fair and avoid lording over everyone with my higher rank. This includes voting on all punishments onboard. I still think the player will have his character leave the party once I demand a trial, but he can’t say I didn’t give him a fair chance.

[NNescio]

I forgot to mention some relevant information that may explain why this player has been a bit… “negatively inclined” towards my character. This is a sea campaign, and I built a character with levels in Dread Pirate and Legendary Captain to fulfill the charismatic Pirate Captain roll. At the end of the first session, I killed the previous captain of an intelligent, magical ship and the title – and ownership of the ship - was magically passed down to me. You can only become the captain of this ancient vessel by killing the previous captain.

The player was annoyed that I gained this – despite me being obviously more built for it. His character resents authority, and it has been a struggle throughout the game. I have avoided commanding, and ordering, the other players by giving them high ranks on the ship and putting all decisions to a vote amongst them. Despite this, the player was still upset. He wanted to be co-captain, at the very least. I can’t help but think all this is just his way of getting back at me, though he denies that OOG.

I think the Geomancer's motivation is quite clear now -- he wants to kill your PC just so he can get his grubby hands on the ship itself. Quite possibly, he wants to also provoke you into starting the fight itself to avoid "losing face".

[TheRinni]

I think the Geomancer's motivation is quite clear now -- he wants to kill your PC just so he can get his grubby hands on the ship itself. Quite possibly, he wants to also provoke you into starting the fight itself to avoid "losing face".

I really want to avoid thinking that this is his primary motivation- though it might be an underlying one. I genuinely enjoy playing with this player on occasion, though those times are becoming less and less frequent. It would greatly sadden me to find out he had such despicable motives.

He always wants to have the best character, in every aspect. But he's never stooped to PvP - well - at least not while I've been playing with him. I've heard stories of a previous game, but that was an Evil Campaign, and everyone ended up slaughtering each other at the end of it.

[vitkiraven]

Rinni, very decent of you, but it may border on foolish. Sailors are very superstitious people (I know fron experience), and having an undead monstrosity onboard will not bode well. It might not be long before the crew starts to turn. This foul necromancer raised the dead, to be his slave. A sailor can't go to fiddler's green if he is stuck in that state. By not removing the undead, you may be considered to be showing you are either a) weaker than that other character or b) in accord with him. I like the vote option, but do it sooner rather than later, and a ruling of no undead on the ship.

[Calanon]

I really want to avoid thinking that this is his primary motivation- though it might be an underlying one. I genuinely enjoy playing with this player on occasion, though those times are becoming less and less frequent. It would greatly sadden me to find out he had such despicable motives.

He always wants to have the best character, in every aspect. But he's never stooped to PvP - well - at least not while I've been playing with him. I've heard stories of a previous game, but that was an Evil Campaign, and everyone ended up slaughtering each other at the end of it.

So just follow my advice and kill the little worm :smalltongue: He's wronged you and must be punished for this action (I'm Neutral Evil not Lawful for the record xD) I'm confident the crew will understand, besides He was displaying mutinous tendencies, If you don't do something, someone else in the crew might just murder him in his sleep to restore peace to the ship :smallamused:

Sometimes its easier to just remove the parties problems before the problem grows... larger (I.e. at about level 18 the fight between you and him will be more annoying than it has to be right now)

[Coidzor]

He is the DM’s best friend, and a close friend of everyone in the group. The DM knows that this player has created a dickish character, and is letting me handle the situation as I see fit.

So... the DM is a ****. That's just great.

Welp, game over man, game over. You're right proper screwed.

What is that, Rule 3: Don't play with *****? Or was it Rule -1's first corollary?

[TheRinni]

Rinni, very decent of you, but it may border on foolish. Sailors are very superstitious people (I know fron experience), and having an undead monstrosity onboard will not bode well. It might not be long before the crew starts to turn. This foul necromancer raised the dead, to be his slave. A sailor can't go to fiddler's green if he is stuck in that state. By not removing the undead, you may be considered to be showing you are either a) weaker than that other character or b) in accord with him. I like the vote option, but do it sooner rather than later, and a ruling of no undead on the ship.

While I don't think my DM is going to enforce that - the ship is completely crewed by my loyal Followers thanks to the Extra Followers, and Improved Cohort, feats - it's definitely something I can bring up to the character. Perhaps I can tell him to keep the Undead more hidden *hint* *hint* Most of the newer followers were recruited from a very anti-undead area, and wouldn't take kindly to the idea. Only the players even know that it's undead, as it wears a cloak to protect its identity.

So... the DM is a ****. That's just great.
This isn't particularly true. The DM has already stated that he will take my side on this matter. I have talked to him, explained the situation, and he agreed to let me handle it. No retconning when it comes to PvP.

*ahem* In addition, that player may be his one of his best friends, but I am his fiance. He won't be getting any favoritism.

[Calanon]

While I don't think my DM is going to enforce that - the ship is completely crewed by my loyal Followers thanks to the Extra Followers, and Improved Cohort, feats - it's definitely something I can bring up to the character. Perhaps I can tell him to keep the Undead more hidden *hint* *hint* Most of the newer followers were recruited from a very anti-undead area, and wouldn't take kindly to the idea. Only the players even know that it's undead, as it wears a cloak to protect its identity.

Sounds like your getting the DM's green light to slaughter this foo :smallwink:

Best plan to kill a caster ever :smallamused: (and the reason why I prepare spells to kill my party if it comes to that)
VVVVVV

[Mikeavelli]

The trick here is to do it with style.

He's prodding you, trolling you even, but under the guise of "roleplaying" - So Roleplay!

You know, or at least suspect, that you cannot defeat him in a fair fight. That's fine, don't fight fair. Your character has already figured it out, hints have been dropped anger has been wrought, and the dish of revenge will be served cold.

He's a caster, he has limited spells.

He's a talker, he likes to talk, chances are he has already bragged about the many wonderful ways he can bring horrid death upon others. Chances are, you will know the exact moment when he is out of spells! When the adventuring day is over, he's spent, you're still a melee-oriented class, so all you really have to do is innocently ask the cleric for some full heal mojo.

Then... "So, I'm going to hide."

Everyone: "What? Why?"

You: "Oh... No reason, just I've figured out one thing, my Ex-fiance is an undead horror raised from beyond. Also, SNEAK ATTACK."

Him: "But that's not fair! WHAAAA"

You: "Pirate! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFVX-JKdYVo&#t=3m51s)"

Make it epic. Make it grandiose. Prepare a speech. Have FUN with it, steal the scene, and make it the most memorable event the group has ever had.

[vitkiraven]

While I don't think my DM is going to enforce that - the ship is completely crewed by my loyal Followers thanks to the Extra Followers, and Improved Cohort, feats - it's definitely something I can bring up to the character. Perhaps I can tell him to keep the Undead more hidden *hint* *hint* Most of the newer followers were recruited from a very anti-undead area, and wouldn't take kindly to the idea. Only the players even know that it's undead, as it wears a cloak to protect its identity
Loyal to you, good. They won't turn mutinous likely, but you still might end up on the down side of some leadership points, so best to take care of the situation soon. And these are sailors we are talking about? I would give it three days, as long as the thing stays only in the geomancers room before the whole ship onows about it. Not a thing happens on a ship without it being spread about the ship like wildfire. Sailors at sea = bored sailors. Eventually, something will betray it's unnatural condition, be it smell (sailors are particularly worried about rotten food), drippings from fluids (who mops the deck?), to even catching a glimpse of the crew member that never eats. Some excuses might work for a bit, but likely thing is, one will find out, or even guess, and once one does, the crew knows, often before the officers and captain know that the crew know.
Just my exp.

[Psyren]

*ahem* In addition, that player may be his one of his best friends, but I am his fiance. He won't be getting any favoritism.

This only made the alarm bells in my head louder. My strong advice is that all of you settle this OOG.

[Calanon]

This only made the alarm bells in my head louder. My strong advice is that all of you settle this OOG.

I am quite contrary to this idea, If a player wants to use RP'ing to hassle you, than I can't see why you can't do the same...

[Coidzor]

I am quite contrary to this idea, If a player wants to use RP'ing to hassle you, than I can't see why you can't do the same...

Because it's stooping to their level and letting them autocratically dictate what the game will be about.

Better to resolve the issue once and for all, and if they don't abide by the compact of what the game will be, then they can part ways before they lose friends over it.

[TheRinni]

This only made the alarm bells in my head louder. My strong advice is that all of you settle this OOG.

I've mentioned multiple times in this thread that I've spoken to all parties both in-game and out-of-game. Let me tell you the specifics of my most recent attempt.

The player has told me that, yes, he is "poking at my character." He finds it fun, and believes the following: "I'm a spellcaster - your kryptonite. You can't beat me in a fight." He finds the prospect of PvP amusing, but only if he can win. I told him much of what I've stated in this thread. At the table the other day I even said: "My character isn't stupid. She's going to catch on to your little slip ups eventually," after a particularly obvious hint.
To which he responded, "That'll be funny."
I reminded him that, "My character's first instinct will be to attack it."
He said, simply, "Then I'll just kill you."

I pretended to not even hear that last comment, and focused back on the game.

Also, as to the warning bells, our relationship honestly won't be a problem at our table. In the past eight games we've played with this group, it's never come up. If anything, we are far harder on each other than other players.

[Coidzor]

The player has told me that, yes, he is "poking at my character." He finds it fun, and believes the following: "I'm a spellcaster - your kryptonite. You can't beat me in a fight." He finds the prospect of PvP amusing, but only if he can win. I told him much of what I've stated in this thread. At the table the other day I even said: "My character isn't stupid. She's going to catch on to your little slip ups eventually," after a particularly obvious hint.
To which he responded, "That'll be funny."
I reminded him that, "My character's first instinct will be to attack it."
He said, simply, "Then I'll kill you."

...So he's just being a **** to be a **** to you because he feels he can lord it over you. Indulging him in his bad behavior is just going to feed it and help him make himself a worse person.

However, not indulging him is apparently not an option as your group and DM are enablers. This is unfortunate, especially since the DM is ostensibly his best friend and should have a level of concern for his well-being as a person. :smallfrown:

In which case, if he refuses to play by the compact of the group and the group refuses to enforce its compact, then the only option is to either force the issue in meatspace, which would involve getting him alienated from your SO and kicked from the game or to engineer a situation, even going to kobayashi maru lengths to prevent your SO or other group members from letting anything slip to him, where he simply dies in game and throws a temper tantrum as a result.

[harkle1876]

The more I think about it, I think I’ve come up with a good in-game solution. Assuming the Geomancer does not outright attempt to kill me after taking a swipe at his pet, I will hold a trial amongst the crewmembers. As I’ve stated, I try to put all decisions to a vote, to keep things fair and avoid lording over everyone with my higher rank. This includes voting on all punishments onboard. I still think the player will have his character leave the party once I demand a trial, but he can’t say I didn’t give him a fair chance. I like the idea of role playing your character and not resorting to a pvp conflict. If you decide to do this, hopefully it is ended without too much bloodshed. Personally, I feel that you would just be stooping to his level if you decided to fight him. Good luck resolving that conflict. :smallfrown:

[Psyren]

I've mentioned multiple times in this thread that I've spoken to all parties both in-game and out-of-game.

I didn't say "speak." I said "settle." Meaning, you and the DM lay down the law. If he's the only one interested in this kind of fight, simply say "no you don't" in response to his "I attack," and proceed as though nothing happened. He'll get the hint eventually, and either choose to mature or leave. (Win/win.)


*snip*

Also this ^

[Calanon]

Because it's stooping to their level and letting them autocratically dictate what the game will be about.

Better to resolve the issue once and for all, and if they don't abide by the compact of what the game will be, then they can part ways before they lose friends over it.

Neat, so they got their way for about 5 seconds... than you killed them and they lost whatever power they had before they became a problem :smallconfused: I've never gotten the whole "Don't stoop to their level" crap... that just seems wasteful of both time and resources, If the player wants to start something with a character in game than he better be prepared for the consequences (I.e. a painful death) :smallannoyed: If I lose, than cool the conflict resolved itself and the player had his way that time.

If the Player wants to keep this conflict in game than awesome we can RP it and delay our eventual battle until we are both prepared (form an in-party Rivalry) but if he/she is just blatantly bullying my character than I as a player sure as hell ain't gonna let him have his cake and eat it. :smallamused:

[TheRinni]

I didn't say "speak." I said "settle." Meaning, you and the DM lay down the law.

Ah. I see the difference.

Sadly, that isn't going to happen. The DM has stated that he will allow me to solve the issue any way I see fit, but he will get involved as little as possible. He doesn't even like talking about it OOG. His policy is to let the players work things out on their own, and not take sides.


If he's the only one interested in this kind of fight, simply say "no you don't" in response to his "I attack," and proceed as though nothing happened.
As a group, we are also very much against anyone telling us what our characters do and do not do. That is for us to decide, and no one else. That would go over very, very poorly.

[Psyren]

If I lose, than cool the conflict resolved itself and the player had his way that time.

Yay! So every time I want to attack your PC because "it's what my character would do" then you're totally on board, right?

It's great that we can derail this and future campaigns whenever we have a disagreement IC. No, really :smallsigh:


@Rinni: Very well, good luck.

[TheRinni]

Yay! So every time I want to attack your PC because "it's what my character would do" then you're totally on board, right?

It's great that we can derail this and future campaigns whenever we have a disagreement IC. No, really :smallsigh:


@Rinni: Very well, good luck.

The more I consider it, the more I'm starting to believe that the best way to handle this situation is IC, where the conflicts are occurring in the first place, without combat. My solution of a trial would be an appropriate example of this, and I am currently searching for more.

[Calanon]

Yay! So every time I want to attack your PC because "it's what my character would do" then you're totally on board, right?

It's great that we can derail this and future campaigns whenever we have a disagreement IC. No, really :smallsigh:

Trust me, I've heard stupider reasons for PCs wanting to fight each other "Alex at the last slice of cheese cake, Ima kill him in game"

Please don't even try to use the whole "It's what my character would do" defense because it really falls apart in a situation like this. "He's plotting to kill me, and logically I would seek to defend myself by taking the initiative and killing him before he kills me"

And for the record, If I'm playing a Necropolitian Ur-Priest who is Chaotic evil, and I know full well that your playing a Paladin than it can probably be safe to assume that as a player I have my own agenda that the DM should be able to pick up on so yes in this case since I'm provoking the Paladin player by my existence he has every right to attack me because it is what his character would do (and I'd feel offended if you didn't!) :smalltongue:

[Coidzor]

Neat, so they got their way for about 5 seconds... than you killed them and they lost whatever power they had before they became a problem :smallconfused: I've never gotten the whole "Don't stoop to their level" crap... that just seems wasteful of both time and resources, If the player wants to start something with a character in game than he better be prepared for the consequences (I.e. a painful death) :smallannoyed: If I lose, than cool the conflict resolved itself and the player had his way that time.

If you lose, then he goes on a roll and tries to gank every single one of your new characters for loot, more like, and the game dissolves into pointless sound and fury. At least, that's the standard outcome when someone decides to bring in PvP trolling, as it almost invariably leads to griefing. If you win, then, well, griefing and back to the same old tricks, possibly after a time delay, so you have to go through it all over again with new characters.

Stooping to their level is more wasteful in time and resources. You have to plan out ganking their character, go through the tedium and the dice rolls and the whining and temper tantruming that's bound to eat up at least a quarter of an hour to half an hour and will usually just exacerbate things or you can have a 5 to 10 minute conversation like reasonable facsimiles of mature human beings about the nature of the game and the game everyone set out to play and why it's gone off course and what can be done to set it back on course.

And if they have to be ejected from the game, much easier to do it outside of a session where you're setting out to have some fun, as kicking someone from the game is generally a buzzkill for a fair chunk of time unless everyone in the group was in on it, in which case, well... That's just unpleasant.


If the Player wants to keep this conflict in game than awesome we can RP it and delay our eventual battle until we are both prepared (form an in-party Rivalry) but if he/she is just blatantly bullying my character than I as a player sure as hell ain't gonna let him have his cake and eat it. :smallamused:

By going "haha, I am trolling you" to her face, this person has clearly taken it outside of the game already by making it about power and amusement at her personal expense. Which is just the wrong way to go about thinking about a cooperative game, as if the only way to have fun at it is to take away the fun of others like fun is some kind of finite resource that you're competing for, then, well that's just doing it wrong.


My solution of a trial would be an appropriate example of this, and I am currently searching for more.

If you can pull that off, more power to you. It'll certainly be interesting, I imagine.

[Psyren]

Please don't even try to use the whole "It's what my character would do" defense because it really falls apart in a situation like this.

That... was sarcasm...

I do not advocate that defense. The Giant's article (helpfully linked earlier in the thread) even spends several paragraphs dismantling it.

[Elfinor]

I've never actually seen such a situation myself, but here is my 2cp.

Firstly (as mentioned several times above), just bring the situation up again OOC and mention it to your DM etc. Your DM sounds a little weak and you've already mentioned it to the other player so I doubt that will bear much fruit. It's still worth a shot, however.

I've just read through SilverclawShift's Celebrated Campaign Archives (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116836) and it has an interesting example of interparty conflict - I'm basing my suggestion on that. I am aware there are different circumstances etc. but I still think the example holds some merit.

Assuming you're running a 'save the cheerleader, save the world' overarching campaign atm, this character is probably one of the only characters who is willing and able to help do so. Your character probably still has other loved ones in the world/city/country and so would still want to keep the Geomancer around for this campaign arc to ensure that the 'threat' is defeated.

I would suggest dropping subtle counter-hints that your character knows exactly what's going on and acting in subtle/petty (but small) ways (IC) to undermine him e.g. Finishing off the monster you're currently fighting rather than rushing off to help him in a fight. You still want him to live, but make sure he knows that your character hates him. Try to keep the hate IC too:smalltongue:

At the end of the campaign, once the BBEG is defeated and your loved ones are safe, is when all ham hell should break loose. He's now number one on your hit list. You can have a lot of fun writing the pre-smackdown speech. Here are some cliched lines that (depending on how over the top you want to go) you may or may not want to use:

"I've always suspected, but I've never known for sure. Now I WANT THE TRUTH!"
"YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!"
"What I want to know is... why?"
"YOU BASTARD!"
"HOW COULD YOU?!"
And my all time favorite:
"RAAAAARGH!!!!"
If you can fit them in somewhere: "IT'S OVER 9,000!"
"I am your father."
"He was my precioussssss."
When you sense you're getting close to the campaign's closure, your DM should be informed (privately) about your intentions for the 'epilogue'. If you die, your character becomes a martyr for true love. If you win... well, you win:smallconfused:? You can figure out what you want your character wants to do afterwards better than I can:smalltongue: This approach allows you to roleplay the IC hate but still keep a smooth campaign running - the 'enemy mine' approach.

I do apologise if you read this and aren't on a 'save the city/nation/world' type campaign arc, it's probably not much use in another type of campaign. Unless the BBEG is holding some of your character's loved ones hostage anyway.

Whatever you choose, good luck!

[W3bDragon]

There seems to be a consensus here to the fact that something must be done, but disagreement on how to go about it.

Your options are:

* Settle this OOG with the DM: Tried and failed. The DM won't stop your character trying to settle this IG, but won't get involved, even if he has good reason to do so (the whole retconning thing with the king.) This also rules out any ideas of throwing the player out of the campaign.

* Settle this OOC with the player: Tried and failed. The player feels invulnerable against your character and as such is doing whatever he wants, feeling you can't do anything about it. The prospect of a fight breaking out, and him winning, getting him the ship, is icing on the cake.


* Settle this IC with a one on one fight: If this happens, no matter how badly he goaded you, you'll still be the aggressor. Even if you decide to just attack the undead, he'll still attack you. I'm sure he knows that a fight is a distinct possibility and is prepared for it. This can only end badly. Either you win, in which case he'll throw a monumental fit and ruin the game, or you lose, in which case you lose all the work you've put into your character, and he gets his way.

* Settle this IC with an event: The idea of a trial of sorts is a good one. You could also steer the party back towards that king and complain to him about what this guy is doing, forcing the events that got retconned all over. However, I cannot see him reacting any differently to this than to a one on one fight. Worse, he'll feel singled out and put on by the whole party. That'll definitely cause hard feelings, probably more so than having just lost his character to a one on one fight.

* Settle this in the open OOC with the whole party: At the beginning of the session, before you get started, you mention the following to everyone, including the problem player. "Hey guys, I'm having a hard time deciding what to do about this whole fiance raising thing. Am I being too sensitive? Or is Bob just being a ****?" People chime in, hopefully, with: "Actually yeah, that's a completely ****ish move on the part of Bob, if I were in your shoes, I'd have attacked him a long time ago." You respond with: "Yes, but I don't want to ruin everyone's fun by turning the campaign into a pvp fight that completely derails the plot. But even if I get my character to get over the whole fiance thing, Bob will find a new way to keep poking at my character, won't you Bob?" Maybe then he'll realize that he's really ruining YOUR fun in the campaign and, if he's a decent guy, will stop.

* Settle this between yourself and your character: Your character decides that perhaps the ex fiance being raised as undead isn't so bad. After all, he did try to kill you, for someone who supposedly loved you, he has a funny way of showing it. Your character could be very hurt and have a brewing hatred of the ex fiance for so completely betraying her love and trust and doesn't mind seeing him suffer. Sometimes hatred born of love betrayed can be a powerful thing. An interesting idea would be to draw the player aside and instead of telling him that you'll attack him. You tell him that you'll confront him IG and he needs to convince your character of the above idea. This can turn into a very powerful and memorable scene in the campaign and add more depth to all characters involved. It repaints your character as someone in denial over the betrayal, and the sorcerer a friend forcing you to face facts.

Obviously, any peaceful solution requires the other player to be a decent guy, who, at some point will relent from poking at your character if he finds a way out of it that doesn't undermine him too much.

Good luck with whatever you choose, for the record, I'd go with number 5.

[ILM]

You know, I hate to be the one to say this but at the end of the day you're all people playing together presumably because you have fun and you enjoy each other's company. You're the DM's fiancée, that other guy is his best friend, someday there'll be a wedding and he'll be the best man and seriously, who gives two craps about a D&D game at that point?

Clearly Geomancer-guy is deliberately being an ass. I can think of no good IC reason why his guy would be particularly attached to this one cohort. Even if it had some kind of spiffy build he really wants, the DM could just arrange for another to come by – but no, he wants that one. There’s no going around it.

Sometimes, people have IC arguments but it's all fun and games OOC. Their characters duke it out, one dies, and the players are cool with that (see, as mentioned above, SilverClawShift's archives). Mostly though, I feel that's not the case. People have IC arguments, one kills the other, and one guy refuses to play with the other ever again and the campaign implodes.

You, of all people, don't want this to spill out of the game and into your lives. It's not my place to speculate but I'm guessing things may not be all that great between you and the player IRL, game or not. If that's the case, you may want to reconsider your partaking in the game in the first place, especially considering the turn it’s taking.

Your options are limited. The DM doesn't want to take the lead, the player doesn't want to stand down, and it looks like whoever dies if/when you assault him IC is going to be mighty unhappy about it. Your trial idea doesn't change anything about that. You’re just forcing the other players to pick a side, and if he loses the trial it'll be as bad as if you kicked his ass (and I don't suppose you’ll be very happy with the situation if the other players side with him instead). Whatever you do IC, someone's going to be pissed off. Of course if I'm wrong about this, feel free to slit his character's throat and laugh it off over drinks.

If I'm being overly pessimistic on the existing relationship between you and him, you may want to speak to him one last time, clearly explaining that all in-game considerations aside, you don't like that situation. He's goading your PC into either being a doormat (which makes no sense in terms of character development, but more importantly sucks in terms of having fun) or being "that girl" who flipped out and started PvPing when everyone was having so much fun. He's putting you between a rock and a hard place, and it sucks because that’s not the game you want to play. If he still doesn't want to back down, I suggest you leave the game - or if you can take it, kill off your character in a blaze of glory and make another one (though you don’t know that he won’t try to mess with that one too). You might want to spell this out to your DM as well.

If you do leave, try to be as gracious as possible about it; calmly explain you’re not enjoying it as much as you did and that you wish them the best or whatever. Yes, it's kind of hypocritical, but in a few months' time this guy's going to have to toast you. Who cares about D&D?

As a finishing note: I made a number of assumptions here and I hope I'm not out of line. I apologize in advance if I am.

[illyrus]

I don't see how if this player is the type to pitch a fit of his undead cohort being killed he wouldn't be the type to pitch a fit over any IC action like a trial.

Personally I would settle it out of game. I'll pretend I wouldn't do that for the case of this example. An additional option I see:

How is he controlling the cohort? Is it something that can be reversed or removed or trumped?

So could you hire an NPC spellcaster to take over control of the cohort and force it to attack its master? The player might change his tune when suddenly faced with his cohort trying to kill him. The whole party could even join in and destroy the cohort to prevent it from killing the PC if you all so chose. If his cohort happens to win make sure its quickly killed as revenge for killing your comrade (and to prevent him from playing said cohort as his new PC).

[Merellis]

I can see why you're having issues with this.

The trial may be the best way to get what you want without resorting to PVP, or you could do it in a sneaky way.

Get some chains, get some manacles and an anchor. Head out to sea and wait for him to fall asleep, then get someone to use silence in the area with the undead monster.

Then tie up the undead abomination and toss it off the side in the middle of the ocean and be prepared to bluff forever.

But seriously, I like the trial idea.

Or hire a cleric known to react to undead with healing spells, turnings, and other such options for the funny factor.

Edit: I also find the issue was the fact he brought the fiance back in the first place and revealed it to the father, who is also king. That really should have ended this right then and there.

[Rubik]

I agree with ILM. The other player sounds like he's doing this to hurt you OOC, and that he's trying to force a 'your fiance or your best friend' situation with the DM, no less.

This kind of jealousy is a very bad thing, and it's going to be a serious issue.

Tell the group as a whole that recent events in the game are starting to cause you grief IRL, and that you don't want this to happen, so you're going to stop playing for awhile. Take a break. And talk to your S.O. and tell him that you don't want to feel like you're breaking up his friendship with his friend over his friend's jealousy of you ('cuz, seriously, that's what it sounds like to me).

If the other player acts like an ass because of it, hey, you're doing your best, and he's the one with the problem. Nothing you can do about it.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

[Galanar]

So OOC is obviously not going to work.


Save money and ask your DM what would you need to ressurect your fiancee, after some big fight ressurect him with as many witneses as possible, thank the geomancer for keeping the body until now. /trollface

[Merellis]

So OOC is obviously not going to work.


Save money and ask your DM what would you need to ressurect your fiancee, after some big fight ressurect him with as many witneses as possible, thank the geomancer for keeping the body until now. /trollface
If there wasn't reasons as to why she wants to destroy the ex-fiance then I could see this being hilarious.

Raise the traitor to spite a potential one. :smallamused:

[Coidzor]

If there wasn't reasons as to why she wants to destroy the ex-fiance then I could see this being hilarious.

Raise the traitor to spite a potential one. :smallamused:

Potential? :smalltongue: Dude's basically announced a formal declaration of war.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Destroy the undead and throw the corpse overboard when the other guy is asleep. If he attacks you when he finds out, no mercy.

[Elboxo]

So far most people seem to be along the side of you taking action to settle this in PvP or OoC, I'm all for the PvP, but go with style and guile ;)

Talk to the DM some other time, arrange for your character to start stealing items from the Geomancer in his sleep, just like a cloak or something, and then give it to an assassin's guild, or a wizard, scry and die ahoy!

Of course with the assassin approach, if he is attacked in his sleep and dies instantly, YAY, but I doubt the DM would be this cruel to him, on the contrary; the party being attacked by assassins, targeting the Geomancer and you turning a blind eye ( Put a knife in him at some point, no pun intended ) and let the assassins do the rest. Or if your party is mostly evil/greedy, pay the rest of your party to do nothing when the assassins attack

Edit:
Destroy the undead and throw the corpse overboard when the other guy is asleep. If he attacks you when he finds out, no mercy.

Is a good idea, you could involve the assassins in here.... " Oh no, he saw me killing his cohort, he must be SO angry, I sure hope you don't COME OVER HERE and ATTACK me." *Cue assassins after he attacks you*

[Venger]

Why is violence the first course of action?

because grievous bodily harm/death is a slap on the wrist in D&D, their laws of causality are different than the real world. here, if you seriously hurt or kill someone,you can't change your mind later (http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/entries/icons/original/000/001/593/peopledie.jpg?1261770757) by giving them magical healing juice or sprinkling magic powder on their body. this is not true in D&D where you can res them, or someone else can do it.

[FearlessGnome]

Sneaky kill. In a fair fight he may or may not kill you first/flee, but if you attack when he's completely out of useful spells or set up some other unfair situation, he should go down easily enough. Remember, he's expecting your character to be strictly inferior to his.

Out of curiosity, though, what was his in game reasoning for getting that particular cohort in the first place?

[Gotterdammerung]

So, another player has put me in a sticky situation. I don’t quite know what to do. Here’s the story:

Several sessions back, my character encountered her old fiancé. They were childhood friends, and the two remained close even after their arranged marriage was canceled. He said he needed a favor, and my character agreed to help. Halfway through the quest, he turned on the party. His unrequited love had driven him insane, and this journey was just a ruse to kill my character. His betrayal was absolutely devastating to my character, and she spent the next week in a perpetual state of drunkenness.

Our (Sorcerer/Cleric) Geomancer raised my ex-fiancé to be his undead cohort. I told him, out of game, that it’d be fine as long as my character didn’t find out. I honestly believe my character would try everything in her power to kill her undead previous-fiancé, and told him this.

A few sessions ago, the Geomancer revealed his cohort’s true identity to my ex-fiancé’s father. His father, as the new king of a land, ordered his guards to kill the abomination. The player threw an absolute fit. He said his character would fight to the death, rather than let his cohort die. “It’s unfair,” he said. The DM ended up retconning the entire event.

Lately, the Geomancer has been growing increasingly… arrogant. He keeps intentionally “slipping up,” around my character, hinting unsubtly that his cohort is actually my ex-fiancé. My character isn’t stupid. I honestly think she would have caught on to a couple of the things he said. I’ve metagame’d those realizations away; the player has made it clear he’d rather have this character die than lose his cohort, and I’d like to avoid PvP. The DM is very much against character deaths.

I’m growing annoyed. The Geomancer believes he can utterly destroy my character in PvP, and his attempts to provoke me are getting old. I’m tired of having to pretend like my character is more oblivious than she is. She’s supposed to be a clever character, and I feel like he’s undermining my playing by forcing me to metagame.

Also, I believe I would win in combat - despite him being a spellcaster, and me a two-weapon-fighter. He is incredibly un-optimized. I’m, essentially, using the Jack B. Quick style of Karmatic Strike + Double up + Improved Trip, and Knock Down thrown in to give me a trip attempt every hit. I’ve also taken the Mage Slayer feat, and am intending to take Pierce Magical Protection next level. He would still have the advantage if we were to fight at anything greater than melee range. However, my character would confront his before resorting to violence. This means they would be within talking distance if she ever decided to attack him.

So, that’s the gist of it. I’ve talked to this player, out of game, a few times and will do so again before attacking his character. He knows the consequences of what he’s doing, and how I will react to it. Should I continue to ignore his bait, acting against how my character would act for the sake of peace at the table – or should I roleplay my character through, taking refuge in the fact that I warned him?



Next time it is your turn to watch camp, coup de grace him. Find and kill your fiancee again. Pay to have the geomancer raised as an undead and take him as your undead cohort. As they say,

turnabout is fair play.

[Rubik]

If you WANT to actually kill him IC, engineer some way of allowing him to die in a fight. Do something sneaky like hiding, tossing a bag of marbles in his space, and allow the monsters to do the dirty work rather than protecting him. If the player whines, say that if he's going to purposefully screw you over he can expect zero help from this point on.

If you don't leave the game, tell him this from the get-go anyway, and step out of the way any time anything wants to gnaw on his head.

For bonus points, talk the other characters into doing the same.

[The Reverend]

sovreign glue

its amazing what its capable of.

in a sweet, now he cant speak

on a door knob or his horse reigns now his spells he cannot rain

sneak up at night and pour it on him and set him alight.

[Venger]

Next time it is your turn to watch camp, coup de grace him. Find and kill your fiancee again. Pay to have the geomancer raised as an undead and take him as your undead cohort. As they say,

turnabout is fair play.

^this is pure gold

[killem2]

I don't really have any input as I have never dm'd yet, but this is awful. There should be no reason for anyone taking this game that seriously. :smallfurious:

[Galanar]

sovreign glue

its amazing what its capable of.

in a sweet, now he cant speak

on a door knob or his horse reigns now his spells he cannot rain

sneak up at night and pour it on him and set him alight.

This plus the human centipede with your undead exfiancee XD

[Howler Dagger]

Next time it is your turn to watch camp, coup de grace him. Find and kill your fiancee again. Pay to have the geomancer raised as an undead and take him as your undead cohort. As they say,

turnabout is fair play.

this, or you find the geomancer's love interest and make THEM your undead cohort.

[Venger]

turnabout is fair play.

+


human centipede

=

mfw (http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5181/5569352542_8d9e80a2ca.jpg)

[Kalirren]

Is the undead cohort intelligent or not?

If it's mindless you could at some point sneak in a command to cause it to blow its cover inopportunely, which will certainly make the crew call for it, and maybe its master as well, to be thrown overboard. You could set it up that he effectively has to deal with the entire party at once right off the bat, not just you.

If it's intelligent, it presumably still has its old motivations. Including its conflicted love for your character. Which you could exploit, especially if your DM is cooperating. ("No one deserves to be treated like this, stuck by magical bonds. I can't believe I've put you through this, I can't believe he brought you back to suffer being on my ship. I'll make it up to you. Kill him. Kill your master. Kill him, and we'll get you resurrected proper and you can stay on this ship with me for as long as you like. We'll start again.")

I think your character could earn a real Crowning Moment of Awesome if she convinced the cohort to off the unsuspecting master. But both of these ideas are predicated on your character's IC decision, once she finds out, to really go for the kill, quietly and completely.

[kudosmog]

Main problem is this has been let go for far too long.

he claims he's roleplaying and doing this to your character but it sounds like he's doing it to the player. Probably because as you said he always wants to have the best character, yet you're the leader of the party. Maybe it's something else I dunno. It doesn't seem like IG Roleplay though.

It's hard to find a solution to this that plays out IG. No matter what happens...if it works out in your favor, he's going to throw a fit. You're not going to get around it.

Now, decide how big of a fit you want him to have about it.
There are varying degrees.
1) Find out and confront him IG about him raising your fiancee. I mean really...how COULD he!? You're the captain of the ship, and this guy has just crossed you. Hold a trial, see what happens. If they vote the cohort gets destroyed, he will leave the party at the very least, and hate you OOG for turning everyone against him. Oh well.
2) kill his cohort. He will go right to you IG and demand to know what happened because he will know OOG. He will metagame and throw a fit.
3) kill him silently. He will throw a fit OOG, make another character and come after you again because he seems like a tool.
4) come to terms with the fact he raised your ex, and accept it IG. This would throw him for a loop. Hell, thank him for it. Ask him to make your ex do silly things like the 'i'm a little teapot' dance for your amusement.

Actually, any of these except number 4 will cause him to pretty much just pester you with whatever character he creates and/or hate you OOG.

The key thing to remember here is, if it ends up working out against him, he's going to throw a fit.

You've created a situation where you knew something OOG before your character knew it IG, and it became complicated over time. Now you aren't sure when your character would "figure it out", or even ask him IG about it. You've allowed him to get away with admitting something completely STUPID to the King, and having it taken back because he wouldn't have gotten his way. He made a fuss, issue was fixed in his favor. Therefore, if something doesn't go his way, he will make a fuss until he gets his way.

[Rubik]

Why not just ignore the fact that he has it altogether? Metagame for it. Go out of your way to figure out who it is he's got under there and change your backstory. Just say, "Nah, that's not him. My fiance was a gnome with elephantiasis."

If he tries to kill you or cast a spell at you in-game, completely ignore the fact that he did anything. Him: "Haha! I just fireballed you for 190 damage! You're dead!" You: "I take a bite of my breakfast and smile back at him. 'That's nice. So, what's on the agenda for today?'"

[DrDeth]

If you lose, then he goes on a roll and tries to gank every single one of your new characters for loot, more like, and the game dissolves into pointless sound and fury. At least, that's the standard outcome when someone decides to bring in PvP trolling, as it almost invariably leads to griefing. If you win, then, well, griefing and back to the same old tricks, possibly after a time delay, so you have to go through it all over again with new characters.

Stooping to their level is more wasteful in time and resources. You have to plan out ganking their character, go through the tedium and the dice rolls and the whining and temper tantruming that's bound to eat up at least a quarter of an hour to half an hour and will usually just exacerbate things or you can have a 5 to 10 minute conversation like reasonable facsimiles of mature human beings about the nature of the game and the game everyone set out to play and why it's gone off course and what can be done to set it back on course.

And if they have to be ejected from the game, much easier to do it outside of a session where you're setting out to have some fun, as kicking someone from the game is generally a buzzkill for a fair chunk of time unless everyone in the group was in on it, in which case, well... That's just unpleasant.



By going "haha, I am trolling you" to her face, this person has clearly taken it outside of the game already by making it about power and amusement at her personal expense. Which is just the wrong way to go about thinking about a cooperative game, as if the only way to have fun at it is to take away the fun of others like fun is some kind of finite resource that you're competing for, then, well that's just doing it wrong.



.

Right. Look, I have been playing and DMing this game for about 40 years. There is no IIC solution to a OOC problem. If you do fight him PvP, he wins, no matter the outcome.

You have three choices:

1. Lay down the line to the DM and this player at a open table session. “Anymore of this and I walk.”

2. Just walk

3. Ignore him, pretend at all times as if there is no such minion.

Let me repeat one more time: There is no IIC solution to a OOC problem

[DrDeth]

Why not just ignore the fact that he has it altogether? Metagame for it. Go out of your way to figure out who it is he's got under there and change your backstory. Just say, "Nah, that's not him. My fiance was a gnome with elephantiasis."

If he tries to kill you or cast a spell at you in-game, completely ignore the fact that he did anything. Him: "Haha! I just fireballed you for 190 damage! You're dead!" You: "I take a bite of my breakfast and smile back at him. 'That's nice. So, what's on the agenda for today?'"

Both of these might work.

[Hiro Protagonest]

*snip*


*snip*

It's already been asserted this problem is IC, not OOC, and that the DM will let him play his character no matter how much of a massive jerk he is, except maybe if he puts "E" in the alignment bar.

[DrDeth]

Not true- see this:”
The player was annoyed that I gained this – despite me being obviously more built for it. His character resents authority, and it has been a struggle throughout the game. I have avoided commanding, and ordering, the other players by giving them high ranks on the ship and putting all decisions to a vote amongst them. Despite this, the player was still upset. He wanted to be co-captain, at the very least. I can’t help but think all this is just his way of getting back at me, though he denies that OOG.”

Yes, she has asserted that she thinks OOC solutions won’t work. But you can’t solve a OOC problem with a IIC solution.

[Merellis]

@OP: Has there been any other changes since you posted this?

Also I think that you have done what you can. The player isn't going to stop, the DM isn't going to change things for you, and has in fact said that you can do what you want.

Given the fact the undead was your fiance once upon a time only to turn traitor, be killed, then raised. Also noting the fact the player raised it for a cohort on purpose just to mess with you, lets even toss in that he threw a fit when the horrible abominations father decided that he didn't want his son's body twisted into un-death.

Take it down.

Talk to the king, take a job to destroy the abomination, hire assassins, hire a cleric or two and take it down.

Bring it to a vote if you want, but this thing is both being used to harass and provoke you, and is also something that your character shouldn't have to stand for.

[noparlpf]

I think you should talk to the DM first, then get the other guy together with the DM and talk it over.
My suggestion is not to kill him, but to try to get the DM to re-retcon things so the king did actually destroy the cohort. This guy is causing all kinds of people to act out of character--you've had to pretend not to notice what he's doing, and the DM had to retcon rather than have his king NPC act out of character.
If the guy throws a tantrum, tough. You have to grow up eventually, so you may as well do it playing a game rather than out in the real world. Imagine throwing a fit when your boss tells you somebody else got the promotion you wanted.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I think you should talk to the DM first, then get the other guy together with the DM and talk it over.
My suggestion is not to kill him, but to try to get the DM to re-retcon things so the king did actually destroy the cohort. This guy is causing all kinds of people to act out of character--you've had to pretend not to notice what he's doing, and the DM had to retcon rather than have his king NPC act out of character.
If the guy throws a tantrum, tough. You have to grow up eventually, so you may as well do it playing a game rather than out in the real world. Imagine throwing a fit when your boss tells you somebody else got the promotion you wanted.

Did you read the thread? It's only three pages. The DM is a very "hands off" sort who's fine with jerk characters as long as it's "in character" and sounds like a very passive type who's not good at confrontation and would prefer to not have his friendship with the guy playing the other character tested.

[noparlpf]

Did you read the thread? It's only three pages. The DM is a very "hands off" sort who's fine with jerk characters as long as it's "in character" and sounds like a very passive type who's not good at confrontation and would prefer to not have his friendship with the guy playing the other character tested.

I did read most of it. But has the OP actually tried talking about it with both of them together OOC?
If you don't want to do something like that, I'd suggest just heading to the nearest temple of Pelor, making friends with a high-level Cleric, and then bringing your new friend to meet the rest of the party.

[Almaseti]

Getting a Cleric cohort to turn/destroy the undead one would be a pretty fitting way to even things up. It's sort of hilarious how this guy is so butthurt over not being the leader when he is so obviously immature and not suited to lead. I wonder if the rest of the group would be willing to follow him if he was the captain. I would guess not, if he's this much of a jerk. His character may or may not be able to take out yours one-on-one, but if the rest of the party takes your side, he is screwed.

This really is the sort of problem a DM should deal with. It sounds to me like this jerk is getting a bit of a power-trip from antagonizing you when the DM won't help you (even though he really, really shouldn't have allowed the retcon. I mean really! It kinda breaks verisimilitude if the jerkass behaviors never get a realistic response. I'd see if I could get the other players and DM to just agree not to bail him out the next time he pulls something like that.)

[Acanous]

I've gone through something rather similar, actually.
We had a party where I was playing a Bard, and had inherited leadership VIA being the best person for the job when the prior leader died. (No, I didn't kill him, my char was very upset about the whole thing.)
Another PC very much wanted to be the leader, and had decided the best way of doing that would be to build a very PVP-Capable character, and bullying or diplomancing the party into doing what he wanted, depending.
He built a Binder with an awakened half-troll wolverine cohort. Called it "Slaughterbeast" and made it a Paladin of Slaughter/Blackguard/Assassin.

Now, around this time my character was a Bard/Legendary Leader with an Artificer cohort. I'd used the majority of my time and resources on procuring and outfitting an army, building equiptment for my companions, and buffing or debuffing in combat.

The other PC was right, he very much could destroy my char in 1v1 PVP.

So I had an IG argument with him, rode off to rendezvous with the army and some other PCs (We were doing a big epic war open world kinda game, with city building and such.) and left my Cohort there, still working on equiptment in her lab, while his char was going to handle a dungeon with a few other PC's. It was a great setup where his PC would have plausable deniability and a decent alibi.

Now, we had THREE GM's during this and TWELVE players, so it was frankly easy to talk to a GM unnoticed, three sessions beforehand detailing the defenses the artificer had built into her workshop, the plan my bard and his cohort had concocted in private, and the Artificer's standard equiptment.

The fight went down something like this: Slaughterbeast sneaks into the lab. Artificer's mindsight picks him up, but she acts like nothing's amiss, activating some things, tinkering with others while he approaches, until he's about 10 feet away. Then she springs the surprise round, flies 50' into the air, retrieves some enchanted arrows and a bow she had *Stashed on the Ceiling*, had her six Humunculi begin activating Cloudkill traps, with one of them activating a targetted dispel magic. Then, once initiative hit, she started pegging him with +1 Flaming Brilliant Energy arrows, while he could do nothing but suck and die.

He wasn't actually all that upset, until he came back to the city to find out my character had brought the army BACK, captured his city, and took him to trial for breaking his own laws. (He had made "Being Evil alligned" a capitol crime.)

All in all, I think a multi-faceted approach is the best idea.

Your character KNOWS his cohort is your undead ex. Create a situation where he won't be able to bring his cohort- say, into a church or another necromancer's stronghold. Then have your crew quietly dispose of his cohort.
When you get back from your adventure, and he's all low on spells with his guard down, then hit him in the back of the head with a sap/With a scroll of Overwhelm(Depending on your level) and have him wake up tied and observed, at sea and in a trial.

Casting provokes an attack of opportunity. You can't 5 foot step while tied and hobbled. You are denied your dex to AC while tied and hobbled. Any time he starts casting, a decent rogue's sneak attack should discourage him. Unless he's prepared his spells Stilled, Silent, and of the "Escape from a ship at sea while tied up" variety, he'll have no recourse but to RP through the scene.
Given your description of his personality, I doubt that he'll have prepared panic button spells like that.

In this way, you'll deny him the combat he seems to be pushing for, show him that his behavior will not be tolerated, allow him some ability to account for his actions in character, and, weather or not he is capable of doing so to your satisfaction, you will bring these shennanigans to a close. Either by pardoning him once he's learned to respect your character, or by hanging him from the mizzenmast, then feeding him to the sharks. (Walking the plank is a bad idea, he'd just cast fly and then rain down fireballs.)

In short, the best way of doing this is by rolling as few dice as possible, and ensuring that at all times, you hold the advantages of terrain, surprise, and numbers.

[Hawkings]

Sigh! This is why one of my only DM houserules is your PC must be able to work with other PCs.

Haven't had a chance to read all the replies do to time restraints so don't know if someone suggested this but if he said he's going to kill you if you attack his character, you're not going to get the chance at a trial, he's just going to instant nuke you and it'll be a full fight.

Do the trial without combat, you said your characters clever, when she catches on she'll catch all the previous hints and realize it's a trap.

Aside from that hit him when he's weak, you're a freaking pirate, a F***ing PIRATE! Why should you ever, ever fight fair? Even an honorable pirate is still a sneaky scoundrel. Plus your characters a woman right? that's like a racial bonus for being sneaky, hell has no fury and all that, let your character patiently plan your situation, you're a captain of a ship I'd imagine your character less reckless than to jump blindly into a situation you know is a trap.

Why does everyone suggest killing him in his sleep? that's stupid, don't be fair but don't expect an instant win with sleep, maybe his undead body guard pet is watching him and will warn him of danger and what not, he's probably expecting this so don't expect it to win.

Pull an Artemis Entreri and replace his magical items with common forgeries with magical aura's on them to look like they're real, that way when he goes into combat he's weak and can't pull any combo or abilities off, his AC is lower cause he lost his deflection items and what not, and if your character can't do that much or get someone to do it for her, what good is being a friggin' captain with a crew.

After weakening him with fake items, wait until he's exhausted from battling whatever, maybe secretly hire mercenaries to attack him, then when they're dealt with and he's exhausted, his magic items aren't helping him, and you have a scroll/whatever of AMF beat him up into submission, have a monk grapple him so he can't use spells with somatic component, shackle him, gag him so he can't use verbal either, don't forget to use poisons. use anything and everything cause you're a pirate, you know he wronged you, you know he's trying to torture you with it, make sure the player and the character know that the one to F*** with is not you, and the consequences of such actions are dire, being a nice person won't help you.

Like the idea of resurrecting the fiance, after the trial resurrect your dead fiance in front of the geomancer and then kill the geomancer, my favorite would be to paralyze him with poisons, tying him up with ropes and a heavy stone, then tossing him into the ocean, preferably with something that'd allow him to not need to breath, or breath underwater, so the water pressure will crush him and undersea creatures will eat him.


If none of that helps try another approach, since your DM isn't willing to step into this it's all up to you, if that's the case wait for the geomancer to be weak to "catch on" to what's going on, that way when you finally take action he already burnt all his nuking spells and is helpless to your unlimited stabbieness. Who cares if that's meta gaming? he's heavily meta gaming for the lulz (and your DM is metagaming to be a wussy) so he deserves it.

If this somehow explodes in your face who cares make your own game as DM because your party members apparently already trust you and the DM has proven himself inept as a arbiter, which is literally the DM's freaking job.

[Ducklord]

What does the rest of the party think about what he's doing? This doesn't need to be a one on one scenario, it concerns the others too. In my opinion this incident could develop into some really fun gaming!

Confront him in character and in front of the rest of the party. If he admits his cohort is really your ex fiance go FULL DRAMA :smallsmile:
Ask him how he could have done something like this, tell him it's unforgivable and to destroy that monstrosity and leave for good. He'll probably say no, you draw your weapons, have a big fight etc. But if he is smart enough and if the party is on your side he'll probably see that he has no chance to win and will flee. Let him escape, but destroy the undead. At this point the DM should let him reroll a new character. Congratulations, you just made yourself a great and interesting NEMESIS!

You should probably clear this up with the DM(and maybe with the other player also) in advance, but if this happened in my group no one would be offended or angry. It's a good idea to stay away from PvP most of the time, but every once in a while it's just worth it.

[Gnome Alone]

You should probably clear this up with the DM(and maybe with the other player also) in advance, but if this happened in my group no one would be offended or angry. It's a good idea to stay away from PvP most of the time, but every once in a while it's just worth it.

Seriously. This whole scenario actually sounds pretty fun to me. Although it sounds like the sorcerer player is a big baby, kinda, so maybe he'd throw a fit, but that's HIS problem. I don't see any reason she should just bend over backwards for this guy like some people are suggesting. "Just pretend you don't mind!" and cater to Comrade Petulant and his Whining-to-Retcon spell-like ability.

Someone linked that article of the Giant's, the second part of which advises making a character that plays well with others. Which is great, but it shouldn't be quite THIS much at the expense of one's own character/suspension of belief. And the first part of the same article is about sometimes you oughtta throw caution to the damn wind, and this sure seems like one of those times to me.

Which is not to say I think the other school of thought, Killhimwhileheisasleepsism, is the way to go. That's a bit over the top. Personally I'd go with just having the character figure out the undead cohort thing, freak out and kill it and roll with it from there.

[Nagukuk]

I am sorry if someone has already said this, but, YOU! do not have to kill him at all.

First off, I assume your character has some questionable morals(or at least flexible), if you are willing to travel with an undead creature, or someone who creates them regularly.

I repeat YOU do not have to kill him.

I understand the tightrope you walk.

Consider this ... having the undead dusted by a Turning Lord - Cleric of Pelor. Removes the thorn and allows the player to keep living.

(Work with your DM outside of game time to alleviate any chance of Metagame issues)

EXA: Hire the Turning Lord = make a donation to the church for the "services". etc etc

They rid the world of an abomination, and earn the church some funds. Your ExHubby or whatever gets to rest in peace(the most important partviewed by your character). The player continues to be able to play, you are able to continue to play etc.(the real most important part)

The player ultimately is unhappy to loose his cohort, but them are the breaks, he may even be able to get a replacement. One that is not an ex lover of yours.

Problem solved.

[Coidzor]

Seriously. This whole scenario actually sounds pretty fun to me.

A fellow player announcing they had enough of a problem with you to start trolling you in game and you know that they'll pitch a hissy fit if they don't get their way as they bait you ever closer to PVPing in contravention to the usual table dynamic your group has but they're all too apathetic to care one way or the other about his caterwauling sounds fun to you? :smallconfused:

[TroubleBrewing]

It's a real-life example of "to each his own," I guess... :smallconfused:

[Gnome Alone]

A fellow player announcing they had enough of a problem with you to start trolling you in game and you know that they'll pitch a hissy fit if they don't get their way as they bait you ever closer to PVPing in contravention to the usual table dynamic your group has but they're all too apathetic to care one way or the other about his caterwauling sounds fun to you? :smallconfused:

Well, when you put it that way... Ok, so maybe not the WHOLE thing - the hissy fit pitchery does not sound fun, what I meant is that the idea of a morally dubious sorceror comrade secretly animating one's fiance's corpse to make it do his bidding, and the potential for conflict thereby created, seems like an engaging plot hook.

[Coidzor]

Well, when you put it that way... Ok, so maybe not the WHOLE thing - the hissy fit pitchery does not sound fun, what I meant is that the idea of a morally dubious sorceror comrade secretly animating one's fiance's corpse to make it do his bidding, and the potential for conflict thereby created, seems like an engaging plot hook.

Ah, well, that's a relief then. Had me scared for a moment there. That part I'd agree with you on, does seem rather interesting to explore divorced of the metagame.

[Tanuki Tales]

The trick here is to do it with style.

He's prodding you, trolling you even, but under the guise of "roleplaying" - So Roleplay!

You know, or at least suspect, that you cannot defeat him in a fair fight. That's fine, don't fight fair. Your character has already figured it out, hints have been dropped anger has been wrought, and the dish of revenge will be served cold.

He's a caster, he has limited spells.

He's a talker, he likes to talk, chances are he has already bragged about the many wonderful ways he can bring horrid death upon others. Chances are, you will know the exact moment when he is out of spells! When the adventuring day is over, he's spent, you're still a melee-oriented class, so all you really have to do is innocently ask the cleric for some full heal mojo.

Then... "So, I'm going to hide."

Everyone: "What? Why?"

You: "Oh... No reason, just I've figured out one thing, my Ex-fiance is an undead horror raised from beyond. Also, SNEAK ATTACK."

Him: "But that's not fair! WHAAAA"

You: "Pirate! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFVX-JKdYVo&#t=3m51s)"

Make it epic. Make it grandiose. Prepare a speech. Have FUN with it, steal the scene, and make it the most memorable event the group has ever had.

If it absolutely comes down to having to be settled In Game, where every other option has been exhausted, where all kinds of OOC/OOG negotiations have plucked naught a fruit of success and this is your last and final resort for trying to resolve the matter....

I have to go with this.

But that's just my 2 coppers and again, I only endorse it as an action of final resort.



Edit: Wow. My refresh button epically failed on this thread and did not show me two pages had gone by when I was last reading this thread. :smallsigh:

[Palthera]

Um... I have one alternative but I don't think anyone would like it.

Have your character come to terms with the fact that her insane fiancee tried to kill her, realise that means he gets whatever is coming to him and have her not care at all that he's been raised as an undead.

After all that baiting I think there could be a certain amount of satisfaction derived from your character just saying to the geomancer "oh for goodness sake knock it off! I've known for months who the undead is and frankly, I just don't care, the bastard tried to kill me. So would you be so good as to stop dropping unsubtle hints?"

But that's just me. Nothing worse to a baiter than a person who refuses to be baited...

[Rubik]

Um... I have one alternative but I don't think anyone would like it.

Have your character come to terms with the fact that her insane fiancee tried to kill her, realise that means he gets whatever is coming to him and have her not care at all that he's been raised as an undead.

After all that baiting I think there could be a certain amount of satisfaction derived from your character just saying to the geomancer "oh for goodness sake knock it off! I've known for months who the undead is and frankly, I just don't care, the bastard tried to kill me. So would you be so good as to stop dropping unsubtle hints?"

But that's just me. Nothing worse to a baiter than a person who refuses to be baited...Haha. I like it. So very evil, and yet so very good.

[Tanuki Tales]

Haha. I like it. So very evil, and yet so very good.

No, what would be so very evil would be to find out who the Geomancer loved more than anyone else and bring them back to life as an undead puppet and lord it over the Geomancer unsubtly.

Even Sabertooth loved and cared for his mother unconditionally and that guy could easily be the poster child for Complete Monster.

[Rubik]

No, what would be so very evil would be to find out who the Geomancer loved more than anyone else and bring them back to life as an undead puppet and lord it over the Geomancer unsubtly.

Even Sabertooth loved and cared for his mother unconditionally and that guy could easily be the poster child for Complete Monster.I meant Evil on the player's part.

[Tanuki Tales]

I meant Evil on the player's part.

Well, completely robbing the Troll Player of any joy in his trolling by completely shooting down being affected by the trolling isn't so much as being "so very evil" as serving him a hot plate of delicious irony.

[Greyfeld85]

Several months ago, I was playing in a PbP game where one of the characters was especially aggrivating. He withheld information that our party needed, constantly tried hogging the spotlight, and regularly changed his character's personality as a form of metagaming.

My character, on more than one occasion, threatened to kill his character for withholding important information from the group (in the tribe where my character grew up, withholding information put the whole tribe in danger, and thus was grounds for death). Out of character, I and the other players told him on multiple occasions that what he was doing was uncool, and was ruining group dynamics.

At one point, the DM created an entirely new story arc just for this character so that he wouldn't ruin the game for everybody else.

Down the road, he eventually met up with us again on a new character (something happened to his last one and he got himself killed), and continued to pull the same garbage. Ultimately, we got into a battle with a handful of NPCs, and during the fight my ranger had his spider animal companion wrap this chick up in its webbing so i could drag her out of town and drag some information from her outside of earshot of the city guard.

On the premise that he knew the chick, the player had his character follow mine out of town. When the girl takes control of my character through some sort of psionic power, I told the guy, "Look, I need help, but DON'T KILL HER." And what does he do? He ****ing kills her!!

Immediately after killing her, he passes out due to the wand he was using. At that point, I'd had enough of his crap, so my ranger took out his hunting knife and slit the character's throat while he was passed out on the ground.

He was angry that I'd killed his character, and I was like, "Well then, you shouldn't have god damned killed her, like I told you not to." Not one person had a problem OOC with my approach to the situation.

[DrDeth]

When you have a jerk PC, all the other PC’s have to do is say “OK, you’re not part of our group anymore, you are no longer going to travel with us”. Then as Players, inform the DM and the player that this is a both IC and OOC decision. No need to kill his PC, just leave him by the roadside. If he insists on playing, just say “OK, our PC’s wait in the inn until he agrees to leave”. Now, if the Player is a jerk, just tell the player and the DM that, and ask to player to modify his behavior.

Killing a jerk PC just makes things worse- his next PC will just kill yours.