View Full Version : Help my Homebrew!! ((D20))

2011-11-14, 07:16 PM
Okay. Firstly, this is my first post, and I was brought here by a friend who said that you guys might be able to help me get the last bits figured out on this. So, since I couldn't post on the new user forum (it said it was closed to me for some reason), Hi everyone!

Here we go. I am making a classless system for D20. Imagine a point-buy system that allows you to point buy EVERYTHING about your character! This would allow you to have the fighter BAB ~and~ the rogues Sneak attack class feature, for example.

**NOTE** When I created this system, I started off with 30 'character' points. I was able to make every single base class (In the D&D Players Handbook) except for Monk, with either no points left over, or only 2-3 points. Here's the Skeleton, and I'll explain what I need help with.

Stat Points (Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha)
0pts - all 8's
2pts - 20 Ability Points
4pts - 25 Ability Points
6pts - 30 Ability Points

0pts - 1 High Save
2pts - 2 High Saves
4pts - 3 High Saves

0pts - Low (As a Sorcerer)
3pts - Medium (As a rogue)
5pts - High (As a Fighter)

Hit Die
0pts - d4
2pts - d6
4pts - d8
5pts - d10
6pts - d12

Skill Points
0pts - 2+int Mod
1pts - 4+int Mod
3pts - 6+int Mod
4pts - 8+int Mod
6pts - 10+int Mod (OPTIONAL RULESET)

Weapon Proficiencies
0pts - Simple only
1pts - single Martial Weapon Proficiency
3pts - single Exotic Weapon Proficiency
4pts - All Martial Weapons

Armor Proficiencies
0pts - None
1pts - Light Armor
2pts - Light & Medium Armor
3pts - Light, Medium, & Heavy Armor
1pts - Regular Shield ~OR~ Tower Shield
2pts - Regular Shield ~&~ Tower Shield

Feats/Talents/Class Features
2 points per talent or feat, must meet Requirements.

Now, I'm sure you're all noticing that this list is missing the addition of spellcasting. Well, that's one thing I need help with. I can't figure out a decent point cost to determine spellcasting. I've decided (though if someone can come up with a compelling arguement, I can be swayed otherwise) that all spellcasting will be universal (I.E. arcane will be cast as sorcerers, and divine will be cast as clerics). It's easier this way, and avoids a lot of confusion.

The next issue I'm having with is level progression. With this system, there's no format to gaining additional abilities. How do I determine what abilities players get at higher levels? What is a fair amount of points to assign per level? How do spells progress? Do spellcasters still get points for leveling? What should the point costs be when leveling up for spellcasting or feats/abilities? I'm sure there's a few other things that I havn't even thought about yet.

I think that WotC did a great job with the D&D system of 3.5. I think it is very versatile and a wonderful system. However, I think it's only versatile at the higher levels. This system is for those who want to be able to be unique at lower levels (Instead of just saying "I'm a first level fighter," they can say they're a duelist, without using the prestige class). I'm looking to improve on this system, and make it functional, and practical, so everyone can enjoy it!

2011-11-14, 07:31 PM
The problem you're going to run in to with spellcasting is that it power varies with level. At level 1, Color Spray or Sleep or what have you are nice for one or two combats, but they're unreliable. High stats and class features (maybe also medium or high BAB) will have better staying power and also have the potential to end combat quickly. Throw in armor proficiency and you have... a fighter, actually.

Proficiencies and attribute points only need to be bought once, so for minimal effort you could give 30-4(stats)-5(proficiencies), or 21 points per extra level. If spellcasting is a flat cost per level, then future levels should look about the same as the first one did in what you spend points on.

I hate to predict gloom and doom, but this sort of project typically has balance issues. Are you using d20 because you like it, or because you have not tried alternatives? GURPS is a widely touted point buy system, and it is supposed to be flexible enough for any genre. Shadowrun can be done with point buy and it has a cyberpunk+magic sort of setting. Riddle of Steel has a priority based system, which is like a more restricted point buy. It is supposed to be good for gritty, dangerous medieval combat.

2011-11-14, 07:40 PM
*laughs* Actually, you just gave me a whole new idea. Cause everything that I put down (With the exception of the feats/talents) was supposed to be static after buying it. For example, if you bought the 8+int mod in skill points....that would be your skill points per level for the rest of the game (Unless you added another 'class'). If I made it to where they could purchase a different amount every level, that'd be fantastic, and would make it a lot easier to control.

The only question then is, how do I mitigate the extra feats and such that they would attain. Theoretically, you should end up having every single feat in the game if you were to do it that way (ESPECIALLY if someone was gearing their character to do just that, though I don't see that character having much points to spend in everything else).

I'm using the D20 system because I do like the system. I'm even fine if my homebrew ends up not working out....at least I tried. But I would like to try and find a more versatile system that allows true character ~creation~ for the D20 system. ((Imagine HERO meets D20))

2011-11-14, 08:26 PM
Restrict number of feats to 1/level (I've made builds which levelled out at more than that, but it's kinda awkward past level 15 or so). With regards to the spellcasting you could try using this as a basis but I warn you now, it might be....messy.

Don't allow more than 1 Spellcasting Ability per level (much like the feats). Suggest you start with an 'Aptitude' ability, describing either arcane or divine for cantrips/orisons (half known, 2/day) and deciding which mental stat you cast with (suggest leaving this open and up to player interpretation, makes for more interesting rp without too much mechanical shenanigans). Level 1 spells should require you have bought Aptitude 2 times, then level 2 should require you have bought Level 1 twice, etc. You gain 2 spells/day and 1 spell known of the spell level you bought access to with each purchase. Your caster level is equal to the number of spellcasting abilities you have.

A seperate ability to buy could be additional spells known, and this would be easiest to cost as 1 point/level of the spell you wish to learn I imagine.
Maybe not...seeing issues there. Easier to allow studying to add spells I think.

Not too messy I guess, but the point cost itself is a little tricky imo. Use as you will or throw to the wind!

2011-11-14, 08:35 PM
Welcome to the Playground!

The most important thing, balance-wise, will be to assign the right cost for +1 spell known and +1 spell per day. WoTC's great error was the assumption that one fighter bonus feat was worth about 3-4 additional spells known and 3-4 additional spells per day. One feat is actually worth much, much less than that.

2011-11-14, 08:40 PM
might try adding a second section to the point buy section. one is for static base abilities, the other for abilities that develop over time.

2011-11-14, 08:53 PM
I love this idea and think it really could work. Maybe take a look at Shadowrun's system for Races/Templates; or you could have it be that the race/template cost is x for a race with 1 LA/1 HD above 1 (i.e. 1x for a 2 HD race, 3x for a 3HD race with a +1 template, etc.). I really think that this system your making is a great idea. :smallamused:

2011-11-15, 02:58 PM
I have made a few attempts at this (solo each time) and failed miserably.

I tried a pseudo template system (something similar to shadowrun 2nd edition) where you picked one option from each list: race, hd, bab, saves, skills per level, etc. You start out as a sorcerer with no abilities, no class skills, and a bad will save. You are more or less doing the same now.

The point system I used was known as feats. And it is on purpose, everything
is worth a feat, or more. Everyone starts out with X feats (I don't recall how much) that they get to spend on all the basics, and I priced every special ability from a class, using the actual feats as a measuring stick).

Then everyone gains several feats each level. You can choose, depending on how many feats you wish to grant each level, whether hd, bab, etc fluctuate each level, or its a one time decision thing. You may choose not to force each level to include the actual purchase of HD, or Saves, whatever.

This is potentially a lot more fluid, you could conceivably be a one HD, 3 bad saves, that casts 3rd level spells. Meanwhile the rest of your allies are more balanced as 3HD, two good saves, that can cast 2nd level spells.

You have to define what is permissible. You could have a 5th level party with a caster with 6 hit points and 6th level spells.

I also made a full translation of shadowrun into the d20 system (successfully, but untested). I remember I found a 3rd party book that was for designing in the d20 system, and broke everything down, which is very handy for what you want to do. I don't remember where I bought the pdf, and i don't have a clue where I placed it, but now I really want to start looking, as I am getting more into homebrewing again.

check out this pdf I found while googleing for the other one:


It at least has a list that you can check off.

2011-11-16, 03:19 AM
It would probably be better to have the points buy specific things, and not rates of advancement per HD. You would get a certain amount of points each time you leveled (an increasing number probably) and could use it to buy features for that level. For example, a (super simplified) system might look something like this.

Points received each level= 6+(new level)

Automatic benefits of a level: 2+int skills, 1/2 BaB, 1/3 Saves (both fractionally calculated), d4+con hp, standard 1,3,6,9... feat progression, standard +1 ability score per 4 levels

Extra benefits of a level:
4 extra Skill ranks: 1 point (max twice per level)
+1/4 extra BaB: 1 point (max twice per level)
+1/6 extra Save: 1 point (max once per save per level)
+Arcane Spellcasting level: 5+(new level of casting) points (max once per level)
+Divine Spellcasting level: 3+(new level of casting) points (max once per level)
Bonus Feat: 3 points
Sneak Attack +1d6: 3 points (max once per two levels)
and so on...

The nice part about this is that abilities which scale can become relatively more expensive, and classes which get by with nonscaling abilities can at least buy more of them per level as they level up.

2011-11-16, 09:14 AM

This is my solution for a custom class system, although it's not quite finished yet. In particular I'm revamping feats by improving choices for non-casters and dividing them into feats and "talents" (a lesser form of feat, mostly the feats that no one would ever take because there are much better choices). I'm also heavily nerfing spellcasting by taking out most of the broken spells and limiting casters to a maximum of 3 spell schools (and giving divination some combat spells so it's actually a choice).

When you mention "talents," what are you referring to? Did you do a similar division of feats or is there some official D&D mechanic called talents that I am unaware of?

2011-11-19, 11:44 AM
These are all really good idea's, and I'll be testing them out as I can.

@Anachronity - By "talents" i'm refering to the D20 Modern system. Most of the talents in that system mimic feats and class abilities. The system I'm trying to create should be able to be incorporated into any d20 system.