Encounter Challenge Rating

[Squidmaster]

As a relatively inexperienced DM about to start running a new game, I was wondering if all you more seasoned Dungeon Masters could give me a little help. I was wondering if there was a good rule of thumb for making encounters challenging for players. (For example: "For a challenging Dungeon boss fight, make the encounter's CR equal to the parties level plus 3", or something of that type.) I understand that a CR roughly equal to the parties level is good for random encounters or non important fights, but I was wondering how to make fights difficult for my players, but not overpowering. I have DM'd a game in the past, but I was always having trouble with the encounters I threw at the players being to easy. If there is no such simple way to make encounters challenging, does anyone have any tips on how you make sure encounters are an appropriate difficulty?

Also, links to any other discussion you've seen on this topic, or other websites would be most appreciated. I tried to find any thread related to this subject, and I didn't think I saw any, but I may have missed one.

Thank you.

[JaronK]

An important point is that the entire CR system has a lot of trouble... some things are the same CR yet wildly different in power (see a single sword and board Fighter 10 vs a Dread Necromancer 10 with a horde of 10 Headed Zombie Hydras... both of these are CR 10), and some things are clearly marked wrong (Adamantine Horrors from MMII and That Damn Crab are insanely powerful for their CR). Plus, since the PC classes aren't balanced, an encounter that would be easy for one group may be nearly impossible for another.

So... it's more of an art than a science.

JaronK

[Aegis013]

Consider how your players play in combat. Look at the monsters abilities and health. How do you think they would fare? If you think they could probably beat it but it would be hard, that's probably what would happen.

CR+3 or +4 if you want a really nasty encounter is a pretty decent rule of thumb. However, you should consider the individual monster. I've thrown CR+5's at groups and they trounced them with little-to-no effort, and thrown CR+2's at groups where they struggled and struggled and barely won. So really, use your best judgement.

[0nimaru]

Most of my DM experience is 1-10, so apply this as you will.

Do everything in your power to enforce 4 encounters per day. If your party is burning all of it's high level slots and X/days on encounter 1 it will be very easy regardless of CR. If the party has no threats, they can then do 1-2 encounters per day and rest, and every encounter will look like a joke. If the party gets into this routine you need to break them out of it as quickly as you can. Enforce time limits, pester them while they dry to sleep, shoot transdimensional spells into their rope tricks. Whatever you need to do, you need to avoid encouraging 15 minute adventure day play style.

In this way, when the party only takes a handful of hits on the first encounter and feel full of themselves, you can smile and think of the three encounters they've yet to fight. If the party doesn't feel like they're limping by the end of the day and and drank down 30% of their CLW wand charges, the day hasn't been long enough.


I play too many RPGs and MMOs, so my bosses reflect that. My early attempts at putting One Big Baddy vs the party either resulted in the boss losing initiative and being insta-gibbed, or he threw out a breath cone that killed all non-meaty PCs. It was awful, and I'd never want to DM like that again.

Solution? Cheat! My "Big Bad Bosses" that are designed to be fought at full hp usually have Fiat powers of one sort or another. I don't mean you should just make up things on the fly, or make his saves read "Yes", but feel free to give them some abilities without having to fully justify where in his build he got them. Give bosses two initiative counts per round, free quickened "triggered" actions, extra forms that he changes to when he dies, etc. You have to beat the Action Advantage without playing rocket tag, and it takes imagination to do it.

Oh, and some Distraction Minions help to, but that's a really big subject.