Anima Mage & Bind Vestige

[Tibbaerrohwen]

I've been tooling around the boards looking for an answer to my question, but have not really found one. I was working on a Psychic Warrior, he would go into the psionic Anima MAge by using the Bind vestige/Improved Bind vestige feat. I now have three issues:

1) When I gain a level of Anima Mage, I loose the the Bind Vestige Feat and instead gain the ability of a first level Binder for binding vestiges. According to CArc and CW, I would loose access to the PrC. Though I figure these clauses in Complete Arcane and Complete Warrior only apply to those books, I'm not certain. Do they apply to all books?

2) Alternatively, does my EBL simply continue to increase via Anima Mage, without imparting Soul Binding as a Binder has, limiting me to one power per Vestige but alowing me to keep my binding feats?

3) If this is the case, am I still limited to only 3rd level Vestiges and the powers on Table 1-9?

Thanks.

[TroubleBrewing]

Curmudgeon will eventually show up here, but if you want a more immediate answer, try the "Simple D&D Q&A" thread that's stickied to the top of the 3.5 forum.

My opinion with regards to question 1 is that it depends on the DM. I personally only believe that the clause applies to CW and CArc PrC's, but there is another DM in the group that applies it to all classes. This is sort of a huge debate, with both sides basically having equal ground to stand on.

[Dragonsoul]

1) The general theory is that you still get access to the Prc, because of other problems it causes(Schroedinger's Dragon Disciple and ur priest most notably).

2)Ask Your Dm, it could either way

3) See No.2

[Mnemnosyne]

Most of that is iffy and 'ask your DM' territory, really.

One interpretation is that you lose Bind Vestige, but gain soul binding ability through anima mage, so the class qualifies you for itself. Some will interpret this as losing the class abilities, but that interpretation makes no sense because there are classes like Ur-Priest that require you to 'have no ability to cast divine spells' and yet grant that ability. Therefore, that clause in Complete Arcane and Complete Warrior cannot apply universally, because some classes would invalidate themselves. It must apply only to the classes in those particular books (and to be honest I am of the opinion it shouldn't apply at all, but that is the rule as written in those books).

However, the part about gaining soul binding ability is iffier to me. You gain "Soul Binding +1" and the text indicates that it advances the soul binding ability you previously had. The bind vestige feat has no advancement, therefore Soul Binding +1 does absolutely nothing for it. If I was the DM I would rule that while you can qualify to enter anima mage with the feats, this does not enable you to bind any additional vestiges nor does it enable you to access more than one power from the vestige you bind, and you are still restricted to the powers on the table. It will increase your EBL for the purposes of DC, but nothing else, because that's the only thing that the feat text seems to suggest can potentially be improved.

That is at least, my interpretation of the RAW as far as I have looked into it (which admittedly I haven't done a really thorough study, but I've read the relevant text somewhat).

To be honest I would suggest going ahead and dipping Binder 1 and taking the Improved Binding feat. It'll only cost 1 level, it's unquestionably legal, and there's no confusion as to how it advances.

Edit: Psyren's right, I didn't read that first sentence correctly. It does say as if you had gained a level in the binder class, so if you have no levels in binder, level 1 of anima mage gives you soul binding as if you had gained level 1 binder. So yes, basically, if you qualify that way, you use 2 feats that become inactive as soon as you take Anima Mage.

[Psyren]

By RAW, Anima Mage self-qualifies, and you become a binder even with no binder levels. This is because of the peculiar wording Anima Mage uses:


At each level, your soul binding improves as if you had also gained a level in the binder class. Your anima mage and binder levels stack for the purpose of determining your bonus on binding checks, the effectiveness of your vestige-granted abilities, your ability to bind higher-level vestiges, and the number of vestiges you can bind.

Since you have no binder levels, you therefore stack your X anima mage levels on top of your zero binder levels and bind accordingly. Furthermore, your anima mage levels explicitly count as binder levels for the very thing(s) that would qualify you for anima mage. The CWar and CArc rules thus don't come into play in this case even if they are enforced.

You would count as a binder of equal level to your anima mage level. The wording is such that you could even take Binder levels after Anima Mage, and you would still get to stack them together.



As far as whether the CWar/CArc rules count in other instances or not, Grey is correct that you should ask your DM. Personally, I see nothing about them that restricts them just to those two books, and the absence of a rule anywhere else makes me inclined to use them for all PrCs, even if they do cause hiccups with Dragon Disciple and Ur-Priest.

[Tibbaerrohwen]

I think, for less headaches, I'll just redraft the build. It's no fun if I'm causing my DM a ton of problems.

Thanks for the advice.