Help me convince someone that magic is real.

[PanNarrans]

So I asked my girlfriend what to get her for Christmas. I'm not sure who suggested it first, but now we know what I have to do.

I have to convince her that magic is real.

We all know that magic isn't real, naturally - so what ridiculous stunt can I use to pull this off?

I'm sure if anyone can think of something, the Playground can.

[pendell]

So I asked my girlfriend what to get her for Christmas. I'm not sure who suggested it first, but now we know what I have to do.

I have to convince her that magic is real.

We all know that magic isn't real, naturally - so what ridiculous stunt can I use to pull this off?

I'm sure if anyone can think of something, the Playground can.



Well, I dunno about you but I communicate with people thousands of miles away instantly. Yes, that's the internet. But isn't it magic, even so?

I can fly through the air , higher than the eagles and faster than the gazelle. Yes, that's an airplane, but is it not magic even so?

I can listen to an orchestra playing a piece, even though the piece was played in the 1950s and quite a few of the original orchestral members are dead. Yes, that's a CD, but isn't it magic?

If a person chokes on a piece of toast, I know how to get them breathing again, restoring the dead to life. Yes, that's CPR, but isn't it magic even so?

Most of the things fairy tale magicians could do -- instantaneous communication, remote viewing (thank you, google earth!) , rapid travel, flying through the air -- we do already, and take it as a matter of course.

You think about it, we *live* in a magical society. But we take the magic for granted.

So how to prove magic exists? Just tell her to open her eyes :).

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Dallas-Dakota]

Costs some money, but you didn't specify.

1. Get wireless skin-coloured tiny earpiece with a wireless microfone, the set must have good range.
2. Have your girlfriend ready at the Google.
3. Tell your friend you're omniscient because of magic.
4. Whenever friend asks you something, GF googles it for you, and tada, you have your answer.
5. Keep up as long as needed till friend is convinced.

[Asta Kask]

Color-Changing Card Trick. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voAntzB7EwE)

The Power of Mirrors. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNSbcO86Zag&feature=relmfu)

Vanishing Head Illusion. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNSbcO86Zag&feature=relmfu)

[A Rainy Knight]

Do the same thing my physics professor did to me during the lecture last week and blow her mind with physics. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj9BVd6wRLk&t=35s) It's a little bit lame, sure, but it has the advantage of actually being real (although it won't work on anyone who has an understanding of angular momentum). :smalltongue:

[Mono Vertigo]

Costs some money, but you didn't specify.

1. Get wireless skin-coloured tiny earpiece with a wireless microfone, the set must have good range.
2. Have your girlfriend ready at the Google.
3. Tell your friend you're omniscient because of magic.
4. Whenever friend asks you something, GF googles it for you, and tada, you have your answer.
5. Keep up as long as needed till friend is convinced.
"What colour was my underwear yesterday?"
-> busted.

[PanNarrans]

So how to prove magic exists? Just tell her to open her eyes :).

Good idea - unfortunately this is a longstanding argument between us, so it wouldn't be tactful to hammer that point home as a Christmas present.

[Giggling Ghast]

Give her a book. Introduce her to the "magic" of reading. :smalltongue:

[Tebryn]

What's the argument exactly? You both understand magic isn't real. I may have an argument that may help but...it's so dumb that it might not.

Ask her how much knowledge she knows. Be clever and draw a circle say that's 100% of all human knowledge. Then ask her to color in how much she knows. When she's done (and it'll probably be a small %...it should be a small %) color in (with a different color) all the info she doesn't know. Then ask her if it's -possible- for magic to just be outside of the knowledge she's got. Of course the answer is yes, anything could easily be in the rest she doesn't know. Then say wouldn't it be easier to believe magic is real than deny part of human knowledge. After all, other people think magic is real. Maybe they just know that bit she doesn't.

[Asta Kask]

Double Bullet Catch. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjDcARq8ty8)

[SaintRidley]

Friendship. It's magic, man.

[PanNarrans]

The Power of Mirrors. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNSbcO86Zag&feature=relmfu)

I like the mirror trick; how do I perform it?

[Mx.Silver]

So how to prove magic exists? Just tell her to open her eyes :).


While desperately hoping she doesn't notice you've essentially paraphrased ICP's Miracles :smalltongue:

[Asta Kask]

I like the mirror trick; how do I perform it?

I have no idea. My suggestion would be to show her the videos.

[PanNarrans]

While desperately hoping she doesn't notice you've essentially paraphrased ICP's Miracles :smalltongue:

On that note, Dawkins' new book The Magic of Reality is pretty great. But that's not what I'm after at all, here. I want to engineer some situation or perform some trick that's full of magic and whimsy, and also ABSOLUTELY CONVINCING.

Stage magic is what I'm after, I suppose, but I need something that doesn't look like it's just a clever trick, and doesn't carry all the smoke and mirrors connotations of stage magic.

Also I need to be able to set it up in a month and ten days.

[Morganatic]

Invoke the dread powers of Chaugnar Faugn to rise up and consume her soul. Then we'll see who doesn't believe in magic.

[Thufir]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjToVZTqCbw (First half is more relevant)

Also, what pendell said.

[enderlord99]

Well, I dunno about you but I communicate with people thousands of miles away instantly. Yes, that's the internet. But isn't it magic, even so?

I can fly through the air , higher than the eagles and faster than the gazelle. Yes, that's an airplane, but is it not magic even so?

I can listen to an orchestra playing a piece, even though the piece was played in the 1950s and quite a few of the original orchestral members are dead. Yes, that's a CD, but isn't it magic?

If a person chokes on a piece of toast, I know how to get them breathing again, restoring the dead to life. Yes, that's CPR, but isn't it magic even so?

Most of the things fairy tale magicians could do -- instantaneous communication, remote viewing (thank you, google earth!) , rapid travel, flying through the air -- we do already, and take it as a matter of course.

You think about it, we *live* in a magical society. But we take the magic for granted.

So how to prove magic exists? Just tell her to open her eyes :).

Respectfully,

Brian P.

I don't think Clarke's Third Law is sufficient. You worded it amazingly, though.

[Das Platyvark]

Dowse.I can do it, and can personally testify that it works, if you think it's mystic bullcrap.

[polity4life]

Exploit deductive logic and create an argument where you and all spectators are convinced that a can of soda you have in your hand should have soda when, in fact, it has beer.

My first-year logic professor did that for his end of the semester finale after the final. The performance was enjoyable.

[pendell]

Hmm ... how about some definitions? What do you mean by "magic"? And why doesn't it exist?

If by "magic" you just mean "fantastic, astounding, marvelous" .. well, the world is full of such things.

If by "magic" you mean "extraordinary feats wrought by human knowledge and experience" -- again, the world is full of such things. Four hundred years ago a cell phone might have very well got me burned at the stake, because people didn't understand how it worked, so it must therefore be wiiiiiitchcraft!!!!111!!!!. Today, we know exactly how it works, so it isn't. It's common knowledge.

If you can do something spectacular because you have knowledge other people don't have, is that magic? And if suddenly it becomes common knowledge so that any school child can see the pyramids in real time, does it stop being magic? If so, why?

If by "magic" you mean "supernatural power gained from supernatural entities" .. well, that's religion, and out of forum scope. "Supernatural" is deucedly hard to prove in any case, because if you can reproduce it reliably using natural means and principles, it's not supernatural any more. :)

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Scarlet Knight]

Is she religious? Most religions have examples of divine magic.

Does she mean illusion? Any professional magician can help.

Or just things that are in Sci Fi that science has yet to explain?


http://www.airshipentertainment.com/growfcomic.php?date=20070617

[Dr.Epic]

Science is just magic we haven't explained yet.:smallwink:

[Telonius]

I have to convince her that magic is real.


I think that might have been your cue for a passionate kiss...?

:elan:

[Tirian]

I like the mirror trick; how do I perform it?

This is just my guess:

It wasn't a mirror, it was just a hole in a board. You were looking at the speaker's left and right hands working in unison. At about :45, someone reached from under the table and pulled away the foreground banana from behind the cover of the speaker's arm.

[Don Julio Anejo]

"What colour was my underwear yesterday?"
-> busted.
As a good boyfriend, he should already know that! :smallamused:

[AtlanteanTroll]

But isn't it magic, even so?


Nope. Magic is, by definition, supernatural.

[RandomNPC]

I think that might have been your cue for a passionate kiss...?

:elan:

Don't forget to sweep her off her feet first, it's more fun that way. Plus it gives you a good angle you don't normally get.

[mikeejimbo]

So how to prove magic exists? Just tell her to open her eyes :).

I tried to recommend this post.

Alas I cannot.

[Starscream]

First we need to come up with a working definition of magic; unless we know what it is we cannot determine its existence. So let's take a broad approach and say that magic is anything supernatural, i.e. something that is not part of the natural world but can exert power over it.

Only one thing I know of truly meets this criteria; thought. Ideas, if you prefer.

An idea has no physical existence. It cannot be measured, observed, or interacted with in any way. Now, you might say that an idea is not a thing in and of itself; it's the result of brain chemistry and neurons firing. But that's something different. That is how your brain processes an idea, not the idea itself.

For information to travel, it must have some medium. Something physical must be taking place. I can send a radio signal from the remote by my hand to the television across the room, which will cause it to turn on. This process is a simple physical one which is easy to understand, even if we can't observe any information traveling between the two objects with our own eyes. Just because the interaction between the devices cannot be seen, that doesn't make it any less a physical interaction than if I walked across the room and hit a button.

And yet, if I type "purple elephant", I can be certain that the idea of a purple elephant miraculously appeared in your brains as you read the words.

Here's a better example. Let's say I type the following words:

They're creepy and they're kooky,
Mysterious and spooky,
They're all together ooky...

I am positive that most of you reading this had their brains immediately finish with "...The Addams Family!". So what, you might say. Information was still conveyed, as text over the internet. It's still information, just in a different form. No different than turning on the TV with a radio signal.

Yes it is, and here's why.

When I click the button on my remote, I am sending a very specific piece of information to an object specifically designed to receive it, interpret it, and react to it in a thoroughly predictable way. If I click the button for "channel two", then "channel two" is encoded within the radio waves received by the television. Nothing resembling thought occurs. The remote turned "channel two" into a radio wave, the television picked up that wave, and responded.

In my Addams Family example, something far more complex occurred; I made you think of the Addams Family without even mentioning the Addams Family. Sure, I typed the words later on, but you probably had the entire song in your head before you finished reading the first line.

A thought appeared in my head. In response, my brain sent impulses to my nervous system, causing my hands to move in a specific way across a keyboard. The keyboard sent this information to my computer, which changed it into numbers, sent it through the air to my router, which sent it to a server, which probably sent it through more servers, which sent it to your computer, where the information was interpreted as light by your eyes, which sent it to your brain.

The end result is that the words "The Addams Family" appeared in your head. And not only that, you almost certainly heard the tune in there as well, the rhythm and the familiar sounds of the singers. Some of you may even see images of the show's intro in your minds, and I certainly didn't somehow encode those images in my post. Heck, a couple of you probably had to fight the sudden urge to snap your fingers. And I did that from miles away by sending information which does not even include the information I just put in your head. How did I do that?!

There's a lot of talk on the internet about Memes. When we use the word, we are usually talking about a funny picture, video, quote, or some other form of media. The actual definition of the term is "an idea, behavior or style that spreads from person to person within a culture". These are ideas that just seem to catch on and spread like wildfire, and no one knows why. Sometimes they are funny or clever, but that doesn't explain why our brains seem to latch onto them. Memes have always existed, but nowhere in history have more people been able to share their thoughts faster or with more people than since the dawning of the internet, so memes abound here. Some thoughts just seem downright contagious.

To quote Doctor Who: "What if we had ideas that could think for themselves? What if one day our dreams no longer needed us?". I hold that the "idea" is something that exists beyond the physical world, but nonetheless has a measurable impact on it. An idea can change the world, start a war, lead to a a great invention, etc. But by itself it is beyond nature. Therefore it is supernatural, and therefore "magical".

...Wow, freaking wall of text. This is why I avoid the internet after midnight, my brain is not operating on all six cylinders, and I ramble on and on. I'll probably look at this tomorrow and think I'm an idiot. But that's kind of my point; somehow a thought lodged in my brain and I decided to spend 20 minutes typing it up, in the hopes of getting it out before it seems stupid. Still, it fits my definition of "magic", maybe you'll get lucky and it will fit your friend's.

[thubby]

pour CO2 to put out a candle. you have to dress it up, obviously, but most people dont get whats really happening.
similarly, you can pour butane, but thats a nightmare to do safely. and i do not recomend it

there are more ways to breath and/or hold fire than is the least bit necessary.

[The Succubus]

I think that might have been your cue for a passionate kiss...?

:elan:

Followed by the old "Disappearing Clothes" trick? :smallwink:

The thing about magic, it's not what you do, it's what other people think. The best sort of magic is taking something mundane and doing something unusual with it.

For example, there's a field nearby covered in snow. The trees are all dead, the ground cold and lifeless. And yet, with a couple of spoken words and gestures, beneath the snow you find a flower in full bloom.

Granted, its a flower you planted there yesterday night, memorised the spot and thought of a way for a good dramatic reveal. But it's still magic, nonetheless.

[Eldan]

If by "magic" you mean "supernatural power gained from supernatural entities" .. well, that's religion, and out of forum scope. "Supernatural" is deucedly hard to prove in any case, because if you can reproduce it reliably using natural means and principles, it's not supernatural any more. :)

Respectfully,

Brian P.

I think we had a similar discussion once on this forum, about the definition of magic. What it came down to in the end was something like "things that create or affect things that are not part of nature", which nature defined as "everything that exists".

So magic, really, precludes itself from existing by it's very definition.

[pendell]

Nope. Magic is, by definition, supernatural.

Not in this dictionary (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/magic).

That's also true of D&D magic or fantasy magic in general. Magic in D&D is usually science , in that it can be studied and reproduced and operates according to scientific principles.

In the real world .. I did a readup on Egyptian magic. While there is stuff like the book of the dead, there's also stuff like batteries (http://www.world-mysteries.com/sar_lights_fd1.htm).

Back in those days, you see, there was no clear-and-hard line drawn between "science" and "magic" or "religion". There was only "this is the way the world works." Pythagoras, whom we know as the inventor of the Pythagorean theorem, was also the founder of a magical tradition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagoreanism), one in which magic was accomplished by means of numbers, music, and symbols.

And, you think about it, they're not wrong. Just try to navigate a ship or calculate a satellite launch with faulty numbers. Doesn't work.

So even in the real world, "magic" often translates to "I know how to do something you don't know how to do." You've heard of stick to snake (http://books.google.com/books?id=kGgoAAAAYAAJ&pg=PP73&lpg=PP73&dq=stick+to+snake+naja+haje&source=bl&ots=A6v-euOek5&sig=VriYGA5Gob73YKWGorOKsTFaYEg&hl=en&ei=IRDFTrG2Bsj8ggeGrpH9Dg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CEkQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=stick%20to%20snake%20naja%20haje&f=false)? Take an Egyptian Cobra, grab it by the back of the neck, it's paralyzed. There's your stick.

Heard of talking statues (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automaton#Ancient_automata)? It's amazing what you can do with a speaking tube. According to this book (http://www.amazon.com/Grand-Strategy-Byzantine-Empire/dp/0674035194), the Byzantine emperor had a throne that was lifted by concealed pulleys, so it looked like the throne was levitating, complete with roaring mechanical lions. It wouldn't fool us. We know how it's done. But it impressed the **** out of barbarian chieftains, who thought they were dealing with someone little short of a god.


Whether there really is such a thing as supernatural power to make miracles happen is beyond forum scope. But "magic" being "science that you don't understand" is a concept that has been around a long time, and is in fact the first definition in some dictionaries.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Eldan]

Even the word "magic" comes from Greek "Magos", from a similar Persian word, which meant either an ancient tribe, or a Zoroastrian priest.

[shadow_archmagi]

General Shadow here with his one step one star solutions

1. Become a wizard

Done!

[Sipex]

I'm surprised nobody has quoted this yet but.

"Magic is Science unexplained."

[The Succubus]

Oooo, I actually know some magic!

I just need a pencil and some disturbing face make up. >8D

[Asta Kask]

Even the word "magic" comes from Greek "Magos", from a similar Persian word, which meant either an ancient tribe, or a Zoroastrian priest.

And the wisdom they knew was typically astrology which they inherited from the Babylonians.

[PanNarrans]

...hurm. Does she know the pouring CO2 trick, I wonder? I've got a sneaking suspicion that she might.

BUT I'm doing it anyway! I think that's my problem solved, everyone. Failing that, I'll do a levitating coin trick; failing that, I'll move into semantic solutions.

[RandomNPC]

Ok, this entirely depends at where you are in your relationship, but I thought it up at work and couldn't stop from laughing out loud, think Dr.Horrible laugh, in a factory. It was fun.

Anyway, get yourself a nice looking diamond ring, polish it up nice and shiny like, and put it in a top notch ring box. On Christmas, after all the other presents are opened, when she thinks you forgot to prove magic to be real, this is what you do.

Get down on one knee, look her in the eye, open the box, presenting the ring, and ask, "Do you believe in magic?"

If she says no, you know not to ask any more serious questions for a while, and if she says yes, you've got a story for the children.

[Lord Raziere]

Magic can be anything you want to be, if your are creative enough.

[vampire2948]

...hurm. Does she know the pouring CO2 trick, I wonder? I've got a sneaking suspicion that she might.

BUT I'm doing it anyway! I think that's my problem solved, everyone. Failing that, I'll do a levitating coin trick; failing that, I'll move into semantic solutions.

Apologies in advance if I'm there to explain it away with science!



[Note : Know them irl. Hence the possibility of being there.]

[Further note : She probably already believes in magic slightly.]

[AtlanteanTroll]

Not in this dictionary (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/magic).
Actually, it's the second definition in that dictionary, and in many others it's the first (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/magic).

[Gitman00]

Simply quote Clarke's Third Law: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Then point out why Daniel Craig has relatively few gadgets compared to earlier James Bond incarnations. To quote TV Tropes:


Imagine if Sean Connery's Bond was given a radio telephone that could download navigational data from a network of military satellites in geosynchronous orbit over the Earth? Nevermind his portable wireless computer terminal that can connect to MI6's computer database from evidently anywhere, even a fishing boat in the middle of the water, and which can fit in a suitcase easily?

We don't need over-the-top Bond gadgets because most of the stuff they do is actually plausible with today's technology. Now that's magic.

[Karoht]

So I asked my girlfriend what to get her for Christmas. I'm not sure who suggested it first, but now we know what I have to do.

I have to convince her that magic is real.

We all know that magic isn't real, naturally - so what ridiculous stunt can I use to pull this off?

I'm sure if anyone can think of something, the Playground can.
Any sufficiently advanced science is indistinguishable from magic. And vice versa.

As for 'proving' it's existance...

There's the old empty box --> Ring in the box trick. Ring = christmas present.
Then you just ask 'is this magical enough for you?'
Candles and nice music help.

Corny, but there it is.

[Scarlet Knight]

Watching solid snow appear from thin air or fireflies dancing in on a summer's night always strengthened my belief in magic. Being able to explain it doesn't diminish the magic.

[TheThan]

this thread is in need of a theme song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o89iKsKw19M).

[Illieas]

here is one to work with. Only problem getting Sulfur hexafloride.
you need tinfoil and fish tank.
fill the tank with the sulfur hexafloride.
use the tin foil and make a small boat out of it.

place boat in the fish tank and Tada you have a floating tin boat on air. MAGIC!

Chemistry time. bathroom cocktail. ammonia + Phenolphthalein. fill the bowl with some liquid ammonium place the phenoplthalein in the flushing component. flush and now you have pink water. the classic clear liquid + clear liquid = colored liquid. MAGIC!

[Anarion]

Might I recommend the levitating frog (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1vyB-O5i6E)?

It's fully explained if you know how magnetic fields work, but the point where science can actually pick up a frog and spin it in the air using massive tesla coils is the point where we can throw up our hands and just say the world is crazy.