PDA

View Full Version : Spinemeld Warrior Fix [PEACH]



Essence_of_War
2011-11-15, 07:47 PM
A fellow player in my weekly game was interested in the spinemeld warrior PrC which gives independent meldshaping progression. Unfortunately, said PrC is widely regarded to be a trap as one essentially trades 10 levels for a magical set of spines and rend. Even worse, it bizarrely tries to mix the rules for TWF and natural weapons in a non-intuitive way.

Taking inspiration mostly from the Warmind, which gives a limited power progression but roughly 15 levels of power points in 5 levels as well as a number of useful class features, we've come up with the following spinemeld warrior fix, that aims to give it a useful if limited number of soulmelds, and enough essentia to actually DO something other than just enhance its spines.

Any thoughts would be appreciated! We're running it by the DM in the next week or two, so we'd like a chance to edit and revise, taking into account glaring errors/problems/difficulties.

We're aiming for a tier 3ish balance point, that can be reasonably entered and utilized by just about any Skarn with a melee chassis.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Spinemeld Warrior Fix.


Prerequisites:
Race: Skarn.
Alignment: Any lawful.
BAB: +4
Feat: Improved Grapple.
Skill: Intimidate 8 ranks OR Diplomacy 8 ranks.
Skill: Knowledge (nobility and royalty) 4 ranks.

The Spinemeld Warrior


Level
BAB
Fort
Ref
Will
Melds
Ess.
Binds
Class Features


1st
+1
+2
+0
+2
1
1
0
Twin Spine Fighting I, Spine Meld


2nd
+3
+3
+0
+3
1
3
1
Chakra Bind: Crown


3rd
+3
+3
+1
+3
2
4
1
Spiney Grappler


4th
+4
+4
+1
+4
2
6
2
Chakra Bind: Hands


5th
+5
+4
+1
+4
3
7
2
Twin Spine Fighting II


6th
+6
+5
+2
+5
3
9
3
Chakra Bind: Arms


7th
+7
+5
+2
+5
4
10
3
Spine Rend


8th
+8
+6
+2
+6
4
12
5
Chakra Bind: Shoulders


9th
+9
+6
+3
+6
5
13
4
Twin Spine Fighting III


10th
+10
+7
+3
+7
5
15
5
Chakra Bind: Heart




Hit Die: d10.
Class Skills (4 + Int modifier per level): Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge(nobility and royalty), Profession, Ride, Swim.

Class Features
The following are class features of the Spinemeld Warrior prestige class.

Weapon/Armor Proficiencies: You gain no new proficiencies with weapons, armor, or shields.

Meldshaping: You have the ability to shape a number of soulmelds. At 1st level you can shape 1 soulmeld, and at each odd level after that you gain one additional soulmeld shaped. The maximum number of souldmelds that you can have shaped simultaneously equals your Constitution score minus 10. You select your soulmelds from the Soulborn class list. Your meldshaper level equals your character level, and the save DC (if applicable) is 10+ invested essentia + your Constitution modifier.

Twin Spine Fighting I (Ex): At 1st level, you can attack with spines of each of your arms. As a primary natural attack, as a full attack, you may make one attack with each of your spines at your highest base attack bonus. Each spine does 1d6+str modifier points of piercing damage.

Spine Meld (Su): At 1st level, as a swift action you may invest essentia into your spines as if they were a soulmeld. Your spines gain an enhancement bonus equal to the invested essentia. The essentia capacity is as usual for a soulmeld + 1 (see pg. 19 of MoI). You may use the Expanded Soulmeld Capacity feat with your Spine Meld as though it were a soulmeld.

Spiney Grappler (Ex): At 3rd level, when a Spinemeld Warrior is in a grapple, he can make a full attack with his spines. He does not take the usual -4 penalty to attacks made by natural weapons in a grapple.

Twin Spine Fighting II (Ex): At 5th level, as a full attack, the Spinemeld Warrior may make an additonal attack with each of his spines. These attacks come at his BAB - 5.

Spine Rend (Ex): At 7th, if a Spinemeld Warrior successfully hits an opponent with both of his spines, he deals extra damage equal to 2d6 + 1-1/2 times his Strength bonus. The extra damage is the same type as dealt by your spines. You can gain this extra damage once per round against a given opponent.

Twin Spine Fighting III (Ex): At 9th level, as a full attack, the Spinemeld Warrior may make an additonal attack with each of his spines. These attacks come at his BAB - 10.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What I was thinking:

On prereqs:
I like the fluff of the Spinemeld Warrior as presented in MoI. I lowered the BAB requirement to allow for people wanted to take a 2-level Incarnate or Totemist dip to add soulmelds and chakra binds, and still get in for their 6th level. It seems like manners, knowledge of the noble class, and demoralizing foes in the arena could be interesting niches for this class, so I included a mix of those as skill pre-reqs. I know that for most melee centric classes, knowledge (nobility and royalty) isn't a class skill, so I included it at only half ranks of Diplo or Intimidate. I included improved grapple because I really liked the imagery of Skarns using their spines in brutal wrestling/pankration/mma style matches.

I wanted the pre-reqs to be straightforwardly accessible for most/all melee based characters.

On the Meldshaping Progression:
I gave the Spinemeld Warrior the equivalent of about 10 levels of Incarnate soulmelds and about 15 levels of Incarnate essentia. I gave him enough chakra binds to eventually bind all 5 of his soulmelds. The number of binds is admittedly high, but given the limited number of chakras and the limited number of soulmelds I think it's appropriate. I thought the Heart Chakra was a nice capstone ability for the class. Although I think there is an argument that the maybe the waist or throat chakras are more useful.

The progression is 1 soulmeld and 1 essentia every other level, and at levels where no soulmeld is gained, an extra pt of essentia is added. I thought this gave a nice incentive to stay with the class without creating any glaringly obvious dead level/jump out points in the meldshaping progression.

On the Twin Spine Fighting Class Feature:
Here what I'm trying to do is make the "fighting with both spines" fluff idea work within the game's crunch of how natural weapons vs. TWF with manufactured weapons typically works. This is handled horribly by the actual PrC, and I think that I've changed it to at least be consistent. I wanted each spine to be a primary natural weapon to get full str. to damage. I'm not sure if I should include a clause as to whether or not the extra attacks with versions II/III should stack with the Rapid Strike line. My feeling is that the marginal power from taking Rapid Strike probably isn't too much to worry about if someone wants to burn their feats.

On Spine Meld:
I wanted to allow the Spinemeld Warrior the option of either using the standard Necklace of Natural Attacks or enhancing his spines through raw essentia. Having options in either case is nice. I thought the opportunity to get epic enhancement on his spines pre-epic might be reasonably appealing also. Given that I allowed Expanded Soulmeld Capacity to work with the spines, it's possible that I should just have the essentia capacity be as given on MoI 19.

On Spiney Grappler:
As I mentioned, I liked the idea of the Skarn being able to use their spines to great advantage in grapples. I think this works the way I've intended it, which is basically to make them very scary grapplers.

On Spine Rend:
TWF really need additional sources of damage to stay relevant at higher levels. I liked the rend ability from the original PrC, I decided to keep it along for the ride.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you made it this far, thanks for reading :smallsmile:

Realms of Chaos
2011-11-15, 09:37 PM
Pretty nice take on a pretty bad class. As written, though, spinemeld doesn't actually seem to do anything if you invest essentia into it. Was it supposed to grant a bonus to attack and damage rolls?

Essence_of_War
2011-11-15, 09:59 PM
Yikes. :smallredface:

I totally meant for it to give an enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls. Will fix accordingly.

Person_Man
2013-03-22, 09:53 AM
My thoughts:

The number of soulmelds, essentia, and chakra binds has gone from way too low to way too high. I would take a look at the Totemist or my own heavily play tested War Soul (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156441) (Soulborn fix). For a full BAB class with lots of other class features, I would suggest something in the ballpark of 3 soulmelds, 2 chakra binds, and 5-7ish points of essentia.
I would not open the Crown, Hands, or Feet chakra slots as a class abilities. They are already opened by Incarnate 2-3 or Totemist 5. So anyone who goes Incarnate 3/Anything 2/Spinemeld Warrior X or Totemist 5/Spinemeld Warrior X would be wasting those class abilities. Instead, open up some combination of Arms, Brow, Shoulders, Waist, Throat, or Heart. (Though not more then 2-4 of them, because there would be no reason to play an Incarnate or Totemist).
Ironsoul Forgemaster is a good guide for a balanced Incarum prestige class. It opens up Arms, Shoulders, Waist, and Heart (but not Crown, Hands, Feet, Brow, Throat, or Soul) while providing 9/10 soulmeld/essentia progression and three other useful class abilities (and it's only 7/10 BAB).
Instead of grafting on some confusing rules for Spine Melds, you might want to say something to the effect "Spinemeld Warriors have learned to use their spines in in combination with their unarmed strike. Their unarmed strike now deals an extra 1d6 base damage, may be used as either piercing or bludgeoning weapons, and both your Unarmed Strike and your spines counts as both a manufactured weapons and a natural weapons for the purpose of any soulmeld, feat, spell, or other ability which improves either. (Although bonuses of the same type do not stack)" Just require Improved Unarmed Strike as a pre-req and hand out Bonus Feats from a limited list (Two Weapon Fighting, Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Natural Attack, etc) and you're done. You don't even need to create the whole "you can invest essentia into your Spinemelds" thing, because you already have access to Mauling Gauntlets and potentially all of the Totemist and Monkish things which improve natural weapons.

Cidolfas
2013-03-22, 10:50 AM
I want to suggest making it shorter. I personally think 10 levels is a very heavy amount of investment into a single prestige class, especially when a significant number of campaigns operate in lower levels (or at least probably would, except that having PrC's and the like that are ten levels long requires them to be very high level to actually be able to access them to the fullest).

You could probably crunch this into five levels, which would allow a player to be done with the class by level 9 and then be able to continue progressing in their base class or another PrC. It seems easy enough to make Twin Spine Fighting a single ability that works off of the user's BAB, then have Rend at level 2 or 3, etc. In fact, if the Chakra binds would really be removed you could bring the PrC all the way down to three levels, allowing you to get all the binds from the base class and not worry about huge investment in the prestige class.