A Bludgeoning/Slashing Weapon?

[Coidzor]

So I was thinking this over and found myself unable to envision a weapon or natural weapon that would deliver bludgeoning and slashing damage without also delivering piercing damage such as ye olde bite attack.

Anyone have any concepts of something that would achieve this?

[Ravens_cry]

A flanged mace where some of the flanges are sharpened?

[MightyPirate]

Entrenchment Shovel?

[Zaq]

Ragnarok Online has a weapon called the "swordmace," which is basically a morningstar with blades instead of spikes. I don't know if such a weapon was ever used outside of fantasy, but it works for me.

[Cespenar]

Ragnarok Online has a weapon called the "swordmace," which is basically a morningstar with blades instead of spikes. I don't know if such a weapon was ever used outside of fantasy, but it works for me.

That sounds very similar to a flanged mace with its blades sharpened, what Ravens_cry mentioned a couple posts back.

[Ravens_cry]

Indeed, if the picture (http://forums.ro-guardian.net/topic/585426/1/) (scroll down to Sword Mace) is anything to go by.
It's a bit silly though. The beauty of a blunt weapon is the force is transferred even if the object does not penetrate. But it needs to be fairly massive and hence robust to do so. A good blade on the other hand is thin. Seriously, blades are much thinner than in a lot of fiction, even battle axes, which have a much different shape than wood axes.
Looks like a light mace that gets damaged easily and is not as effective as the regular model.

[Spiryt]

Indeed, if the picture (http://forums.ro-guardian.net/topic/585426/1/) (scroll down to Sword Mace) is anything to go by.
It's a bit silly though. The beauty of a blunt weapon is the force is transferred even if the object does not penetrate. But it needs to be fairly massive and hence robust to do so. A good blade on the other hand is thin. Seriously, blades are much thinner than in a lot of fiction, even battle axes, which have a much different shape than wood axes.
Looks like a light mace that gets damaged easily and is not as effective as the regular model.

That's a lot of generalization in unnecessary bringing 'real life into it' IMO.

"Blade" doesn't really have to be thin, depending on what it's intended to do.

Similarly, majority of mace heads, for example, trough the history weren't very massive at all. (http://users.wpi.edu/~jforgeng/CollectionIQP/artifact.pl?anum=904)

A lot of flanged maces had pretty acute feathers indeed.

Anyway, in most of literature, at least here, axe is classified as "bludgeoning - slashing" weapon, because of the fact that it works due to a lot of percussion, so it's all pretty relative.

Pointy flanged mace can work pretty well for such D&D stats.

[Ravens_cry]

I back down on massive, but it is still quite robust looking, basically a minimally shaped chunk of metal at the end of stick. Besides, we don't want pointy, we want slashy. We already got pointy and smashy in D&D stats in the form of the morningstar

[Gullintanni]

I back down on massive, but it is still quite robust looking, basically a minimally shaped chunk of metal at the end of stick. Besides, we don't want pointy, we want slashy. We already got pointy and smashy in D&D stats in the form of the morningstar

I suspect that something like this might satisfy your requirements:

http://www.swordsandarmor.com/images/MACE-Flanged.jpg

IMHO, Flanged Mace, per your original suggestion, is probably about as close as you'll get. Alternately, a bladed shield could probably get the job done adequately...but then I always thought that a spiked shield should deal Bludgeoning and Piercing, so ymmv.

[Serpentine]

I believe the macuatl (http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/4428/macuahuitlpg8.jpg) officially does slashing and bludgeoning damage. Certain Maori weapons may, too - they had sorta sharpened club-things made out of stone.

[hamishspence]

Kyuss's weapon, the executioner's mace, may fit- slashing blade, and right behind it a massive spiky ball.

http://www.waynereynolds.com/Magazine%20Art/MagazineArt/DDungeon135.jpg

[Amphetryon]

It's not RAW, but I could see the argument for Razored Armor doing S/B damage, between the edges involved and the mass behind those edges.

[Gullintanni]

Kyuss's weapon, the executioner's mace, may fit- slashing blade, and right behind it a massive spiky ball.

http://www.waynereynolds.com/Magazine%20Art/MagazineArt/DDungeon135.jpg

Wouldn't the result of getting hit by the blade portion be Slashing, Bludgeoning and Piercing damage? :smalltongue:

[hamishspence]

It ought to- but as written, it's bludgeoning/slashing or bludgeoning/piercing (you can turn the weapon around and hit with the long spikes on the other side).

Basically, the short spikes don't do anything.

Still good, considering it's Martial not Exotic.

[Spiryt]

I back down on massive, but it is still quite robust looking, basically a minimally shaped chunk of metal at the end of stick. Besides, we don't want pointy, we want slashy. We already got pointy and smashy in D&D stats in the form of the morningstar

"Minimally shaped" or not is matter of 'quality' and general scrupulosity of design, not weapon type in itself.

Robust is given - mace is 'concentrated' bit of metal, from the beginning, arguably not as much as hammer though. :smallwink:

And since 'pointyness' is case of maces like that is alongside quite long feather, it definitely is slashing fro D'n'D sake.

In any case, a lot of maces flanges were getting thinner up to very thin 'end' that might have been as well made some kind of rather dull edge.

Macuahuitl is probably much better idea though.

[Jandrem]

Kyuss's weapon, the executioner's mace, may fit- slashing blade, and right behind it a massive spiky ball.

http://www.waynereynolds.com/Magazine%20Art/MagazineArt/DDungeon135.jpg

There were game rules for this weapon in the Age of Worms adventure path. I don't recall specifically, but it was maybe d10 damage? The beauty part being the weapon was Slashing, Piercing, and Bludgeoning all at once.

[Garwain]

For bludgeoning, you transfer the energy by hitting it orthogonal (perpendicular), while for slashing there is a large energy investment in the lateral movement as well. Seems impractical to me.

[hamishspence]

There were game rules for this weapon in the Age of Worms adventure path. I don't recall specifically, but it was maybe d10 damage? The beauty part being the weapon was Slashing, Piercing, and Bludgeoning all at once.

The Small one was- the Medium was 2d6. It was x3 Crit.

As mentioned, you couldn't do both slashing and piercing at the same time- it was one or the other with an attack.


For bludgeoning, you transfer the energy by hitting it orthogonal (perpendicular), while for slashing there is a large energy investment in the lateral movement as well. Seems impractical to me.

It's two-handed- I got the impression that just slamming the blade full force into the target would leave a huge gash- without actually having to use a "drawing stroke" like with a katana.

[Psyren]

Dwarven Maulaxe (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/maulaxe-dwarven)
Rope Gauntlet (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/rope-gauntlet)

Both are exotic, though the DM counts as martial for dwarves.


EDIT: Isn't Kusarigama B/S too?

[hamishspence]

Pathfinder version is two-handed, bludgeoning or slashing.

3.5 DMG version is one handed, light, just slashing.

[Psyren]

Pathfinder version is two-handed, bludgeoning or slashing.

3.5 DMG version is one handed, light, just slashing.

I see, thank you.

Even though the OP didn't specify which system, porting PF weapons to 3.5 should be easy.

[hamishspence]

The one in the 3.0 book Oriental Adventures was similar to the Pathfinder one.

The 3.5 ed DMG one is rather atypical in that respect.

[Coidzor]

It ought to- but as written, it's bludgeoning/slashing or bludgeoning/piercing (you can turn the weapon around and hit with the long spikes on the other side).

Oh? It is? I thought it was either Slashing/Piercing or Bludgeoning/Piercing. x.x

Silly me.

Any system is alright with me, really, mostly just making sure there was some conceptual basis for such a thing.

Mostly because I was wanting to have a creature with a sort of biotech, organic-derived chain-/buzz- saw embedded in a heavy, smashing limb, but couldn't quite figure out if that should actually be all three, or if the way such a saw would operate would be more of a s/p than a b/s.... (Sort of a Bonesaw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=691qO96VRVw), you could say. :smallwink:)

Good point about the axes though, I'll have to keep that in mind as a possible buff for them....

[Aidan305]

How about a nice, simple Kusarigama? Damage output isn't huge but (according to its stats in Pathfinder) it's got the traits: double, monk, reach, trip, and grapple

[Coidzor]

How about a nice, simple Kusarigama? Damage output isn't huge but (according to its stats in Pathfinder) it's got the traits: double, monk, reach, trip, and grapple

Well, thanks, but I'm not looking for something for one of my characters to use.

[Keld Denar]

Kyuss's weapon, the executioner's mace, may fit- slashing blade, and right behind it a massive spiky ball.

I built a gish to use one. Its the only weapon that can benefit from both Greater Mighty Wallop AND Whirling Blade. Wicked sick!

[Dusk Eclipse]

I built a gish to use one. Its the only weapon that can benefit from both Greater Mighty Wallop AND Whirling Blade. Wicked sick!

...that is so wonderfully sick.... I MUST DO IT TOO!!!!

[Venger]

the kusari-gama is a kama with a chain and a ball on the end of it

http://www.monstercommute.com/wp-content/uploads/kusarigama.jpg

IRL this deals slashing with the blade part and bludgeoning with the weighted part (which is used like that chain thing gogo uses in her fight with uma thurman in kill bill)

oriental adventures treats it as a double weapon that deals 1d6 (slashing) with the blade end and 1d4 (bludgeon) with the weight end or as a reach weapon that threatens out to 10 feet (but also 5 feet, like a spiked chain) you get +2 to disarm, and it's finessable like the spiked chain. if you use it like a spiked chain you can't TWF with it

it's essentially a spiked chain that you can deal slash (close) or bludgeon(close or range) with, which is pretty cool

the DMG reprints it but without the neat TWF option which is kind of silly and makes it slashing only.

this might be worth the EWP, honestly. even if it's 10 ft instead of 15, TWFing with it is pretty cool, and can be used on SA/AoO/Opportunists or dread pirate wintimidators or what have you

[Coidzor]

I built a gish to use one. Its the only weapon that can benefit from both Greater Mighty Wallop AND Whirling Blade. Wicked sick!

ooo. Kinky. :smallbiggrin:

[hamishspence]

the DMG reprints it but without the neat TWF option which is kind of silly and makes it slashing only.

It has the trait of being a light weapon rather than a two-handed weapon though.

I think of the DMG version as "Kratos (God of War) weapon"- slashing sword-ish blade, on the end of a chain, that you can have two of.

[Venger]

It has the trait of being a light weapon rather than a two-handed weapon though.

I think of the DMG version as "Kratos (God of War) weapon"- slashing sword-ish blade, on the end of a chain, that you can have two of.

sure, they made kusarigamas that were just 2 kamas with a chain between them (like fighter's "swordchucks" from 8bit theatre) so that's viable

[Draz74]

Frankly, it would probably be more realistic for axes in general to be bludgeoning/slashing rather than just slashing. They put a lot more momentum behind their blows than swords do (all else being equal).