Savage Species and Prestige Classes

[A Ladder]

In Savage Species there are some monster classes that grant inherent spellcasting, like the Ghaele (pg 171) and the Trumpet Archon (pg 200). If someone entered a prestige class that advanced divine spellcasting (such as a church inquisitor) would that advance the spellcasting of those monster classes?

Text for clarification:
From Savage Species pg 172 relating to spellcasting"Spells: A ghaele casts spells as a cleric of its class level (maximum caster level 14th) and may also prepare spells from the Air, Animal, Chaos, Good, and Plant domains as if they were on the cleric spell list."
From Complete Divine relating to advancing spellcasting: "Spells per Day/Spells Known: A church inquisitor continues advancing in divine spellcasting ability as well as learning the skills of inquisition. Thus, when a new church inquisitor level is gained, the character gains new divine
spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in whatever divine spellcasting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (improved chance of controlling or rebuking undead, more frequent remove disease, and so on). This means that he adds the level of church inquisitor to the level of another divine spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day accordingly."

[gbprime]

I know in the case of the Rakshasa, it specifies that class levels of sorcerer stack with it's racial sorcerer ability. I don't know if this is a specific case or a general rule that covers all monsters, but it would certainly make sense to apply it to anything that gets casting by racial HD.

[A Ladder]

cool. Now I got a big question: Trumpet Archons cast spells as a Cleric +2, relative to its hitdice.

Spells: Starting at 2nd level, a trumpet archon can cast
spells as a cleric of its Hit Dice from class levels +2. It can
prepare spells from the Air, Destruction, Good, Law, and
War domains as if they were on the cleric spell list, but its
does not have access to any domains or domain spell slots.

So at level 3 a Trumpet Archon is a 5th level cleric for spell casting (access to 3rd level spells). Am I reading that correctly?

At this point a Trumpet Archon could prestige into a Church Inquisitor and keep its HD = to its level (AKA keep as a Cleric +2). Correct?

[Curmudgeon]

Now you've only got the individual DM issue with any pre-3.5 supplement. From DMG page 4:
This is an upgrade of the d20 System, not a new edition of the game. This revision is compatible with all existing products, and those products can be used with the revision with only minor adjustments. :smallamused:

[gbprime]

cool. Now I got a big question: Trumpet Archons cast spells as a Cleric +2, relative to its hitdice.

So at level 3 a Trumpet Archon is a 5th level cleric for spell casting (access to 3rd level spells). Am I reading that correctly?

Correct, and at 20th level, the Trumpet Archon has 12 hit dice and is therefore a 14th level cleric.



At this point a Trumpet Archon could prestige into a Church Inquisitor and keep its HD = to its level (AKA keep as a Cleric +2). Correct?

nope. You cannot multiclass or take a prestige class until you finish the monster template. Second paragraph, page 152.

So if you want to be a Trumpet Archon, you ride it all the way to level 20.

The only progressions in that book that have innate spellcasting that get out before level 20 are Lillend and Rakshasa.

[A Ladder]

nope. You cannot multiclass or take a prestige class until you finish the monster template. Second paragraph, page 152.

So if you want to be a Trumpet Archon, you ride it all the way to level 20.


A monster character may not multiclass until it completes
the full progression in its monster class. This rule
keeps characters from gaining the benefits of a monster’s
type and then quickly switching to a standard class. *emphasis added*

I only see the prohibiting against multiclassing, not prestige classing. Is prestige classing a type of multiclassing then?

[MesiDoomstalker]

A monster character may not multiclass until it completes
the full progression in its monster class. This rule
keeps characters from gaining the benefits of a monster’s
type and then quickly switching to a standard class. *emphasis added*

I only see the prohibiting against multiclassing, not prestige classing. Is prestige classing a type of multiclassing then?

Since it ignores the "mutliclass penalty" rule that everybody ignores anyways, I'd be inclined to say Prestige Class is not the same as multiclassing.

[gbprime]

From the SRD and DMG...


Prestige classes offer a new form of multiclassing.

Prestige classes are a kind of multiclassing, just one that does not apply an XP penalty.

[A Ladder]

drat. I was hoping to play a SS monster and then prestige out before the HD penalty got too annoying. (not that I ever planned to be a +2 cleric in a real game...that would be gross)

[gbprime]

Any outsider build in SS has power early and mid game, then pays for it later in the game with a lack of hit dice and skill points.

That said, Trumpet Archon and Astral Deva are strong enough to stand on their own, just not as specialists. And a Rakshasa who takes caster levels from 15-20 or a Succubus who mixes Marshall and Battledancer from 14-20 can be downright LETHAL. And a Hamtula who passes himself off as some kind of troll does pretty darn well with Warblade from 15-20.

[hex0]

Could you buy off the LA as you went along with the progression?

[MesiDoomstalker]

Could you buy off the LA as you went along with the progression?

No. You can only buy off LA that you have at the first HD.

[Psyren]

drat. I was hoping to play a SS monster and then prestige out before the HD penalty got too annoying. (not that I ever planned to be a +2 cleric in a real game...that would be gross)

The LA is the bigger problem. Sure you're a 14th-level cleric with 12 HD... but your ECL is 20. That's a big problem because any 20th-level challenge is going to utterly mop the floor with you.

(For instance, a single Blasphemy will auto-paralyze+daze you and you'll take a 2d6 Str penalty, no save. A paltry +2 to caster level first will kill you outright.)

[hex0]

No. You can only buy off LA that you have at the first HD.

Well, you would have to wait until you got 18 class levels to do it for a Trumpet Archon. So, yeah ECL 30. :smallfrown:

Rakshasa or Drider are better choices for this...but also epic before buying off LA