Firearms-type class?

[Yorae]

Anyone know of any good, solid and/or powerful classes that can effectively utilize firearms? My DM was thinking about having one of her settings start to develop some low level tech, including gun powder, and this interested me. Maybe something that originally uses something like crossbows that could be adapted? Maybe I could tweak the Swift Hunter build to work for this (note: I've never build/played a swift hunter, so I'm not terribly familiar with it).

I'm also kind of interested in trying to make a "gun mage" sort of character, but I'm not really sure the best way to go about it. Spellwarp Sniper sounds awesome, but you're just pointing your fingers at people, as opposed to firing at them.

Sources open are all official WotC products (to include Dragon Mags, etc.), plus pathfinder material.

[docnessuno]

May i point you toward the gunslinger (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/gunslinger)?

[Big Fau]

Pathfinder gives you the Gunslinger in Ultimate Combat.

From what I've heard, the class is around Tier 4/5, so be wary.

Edit: And ninja'ed because of the server.

[MukkTB]

Pathfinder has the Gunslinger, he go to guy for shooting firearms. Its in the ultimate combat book and available here.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/classes/gunslinger.html

I don't know how to optimize it but there is a handbook out there.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213035

I'm not sure about what wizard to suggest. The Pathfinder magus could dual wield a pistol and a wand with a 3/4 BA. Bard progression casting. Someone else can answer this question.

[Yorae]

Pathfinder gives you the Gunslinger in Ultimate Combat.

From what I've heard, the class is around Tier 4/5, so be wary.

Edit: And ninja'ed because of the server.

Yeah, I'd seen the Gunslinger before, but it looked kind of... bad.
5 level class, maybe? Just long enough to get dex to dmg?

Edit: Hmm... a thought occurred to me that one could be a ranger / gunslinger and use Hunter's Mercy to recharge your grit. Not sure if its useful or even moderately powerful, but it sounds kind of neat.

I kind of want to use a two-handed gun and optimize crits + hunter's mercy now....

[Yorae]

Actually, a Musket Master gunslinger / mystic ranger combining Hunter's Mercy (spell says attack with a bow, but its not much of a stretch to apply it to a gun) with the 7th level deed Dead Shot could pack a mighty good wallop. Say you have three attacks, you use dead shot to make one that deals 3d12, Hunter's Mercy makes it auto-crit if you hit with it, and the musket has an x4 multiplier, for the equivalent of 12d12 damage (6.5 * 12 = avg 78). That's the equivalent of about 22d6 (3.5 * 22 = 77). That.. ain't bad at all.

Any ideas on fleshing this out into an actual build?

[NNescio]

Anyone know of any good, solid and/or powerful classes that can effectively utilize firearms? My DM was thinking about having one of her settings start to develop some low level tech, including gun powder, and this interested me. Maybe something that originally uses something like crossbows that could be adapted? Maybe I could tweak the Swift Hunter build to work for this (note: I've never build/played a swift hunter, so I'm not terribly familiar with it).

I'm also kind of interested in trying to make a "gun mage" sort of character, but I'm not really sure the best way to go about it. Spellwarp Sniper sounds awesome, but you're just pointing your fingers at people, as opposed to firing at them.

Sources open are all official WotC products (to include Dragon Mags, etc.), plus pathfinder material.



Pathfinder has the Gunslinger, he go to guy for shooting firearms. Its in the ultimate combat book and available here.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/classes/gunslinger.html

I don't know how to optimize it but there is a handbook out there.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213035

I'm not sure about what wizard to suggest. The Pathfinder magus could dual wield a pistol and a wand with a 3/4 BA. Bard progression casting. Someone else can answer this question.

Spellslinger, a Wizard archetype. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/archetypes/paizo---wizard-archetypes/spellslinger) Sure, it's weaker than a normal Wizard, as the tradeoffs aren't worth it-- but hey, he's still a Wizard and will outshine the Magus and the Gunslinger.

[Yorae]

Spellslinger, a Wizard archetype. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/archetypes/paizo---wizard-archetypes/spellslinger) Sure, it's weaker than a normal Wizard, as the tradeoffs aren't worth it-- but hey, he's still a Wizard and will outshine the Magus and the Gunslinger.

Sir, you are a gentleman and a scholar. Much better than what I'd found before! =D

Perhaps I can grab something to add Hunter's Mercy to my wizard spell list.

[RndmNumGen]

If you're interested, you can also look at entering the Arcane Trickster PRC. Sneak Attack works wonderfully with guns(since they hit Touch AC, but sources of extra damage for them are rare). If you advance your Wizard casting from Spellslinger, you can end up firing Sneak Attack Eneverations from your gun(or something similar), getting your gun's enhancement bonus to the save DC.

If you take that route, I would recommend Vivisectionist(an Alchemist archetype) over Rogue, since you can make alchemical ammo and your extracts can help make up for your barred schools.

[Yorae]

If you're interested, you can also look at entering the Arcane Trickster PRC. Sneak Attack works wonderfully with guns(since they hit Touch AC, but sources of extra damage for them are rare). If you advance your Wizard casting from Spellslinger, you can end up firing Sneak Attack Eneverations from your gun(or something similar), getting your gun's enhancement bonus to the save DC.

If you take that route, I would recommend Vivisectionist(an Alchemist archetype) over Rogue, since you can make alchemical ammo and your extracts can help make up for your barred schools.

That sounds really cool... but I found a problem. Spellslinger loses cantrips, so he can't cast Mage Hand, which is a prereq for Arcane Trickster.

EDIT: Solutions for this... could pick up magical training... or I could take Rogue 3 for SA and take Minor Magic as my Rogue Trick. Alternatively, he could take the Grit Rogue Trick to pick up a point of grit, a single deed, and then an additional grit feat. That ain't bad, assuming the he qualifies for it by virtue of spellslinger.

[kardar233]

If you're okay with some odd sources, the Iron Kingdoms campaign setting has a pretty good Gun Mage class here (http://files.meetup.com/47309/IK%20Gun%20Mage%20(as%20per%20character%20book).pd f).

[Yorae]

If you're okay with some odd sources, the Iron Kingdoms campaign setting has a pretty good Gun Mage class here (http://files.meetup.com/47309/IK%20Gun%20Mage%20(as%20per%20character%20book).pd f).

That isn't either official WotC or PF, right?

Edit: What the heck was I thinking with taking Rogue 3? Spellslinger 4 / Rogue 1 / Spellwarp Sniper 5 / Arcane Trickster 9 Is much less harsh on progression.

Double Edit: Actually, would that qualify? Sudden Raystrike isn't technically SA or Skirmish...

[kardar233]

Nah, I failed to read your specifications.

[Yorae]

Oh, how about a Spellslinger 4 / Rogue 1 / some combination of Unseen Seer, Spellwarp Sniper, and Arcane Trickster?

Had nearly forgotten this qualifies for Unseen Seer =D
Means I can grab that ranger spell that increases Sneak attack by 1/3rd of your CL. (Edit: Hunter's Eye)

Edit: Split Ray should be amazing for Spellwarp Sniper.

Double Edit: Also, what schools can/should I ban? 4 schools is an awful lot to restrict oneself.... Spellwarp Sniper removes reflex saves from damage spells, so it's probably a bad idea to ban the main source of those: Evocation. Also can't ban divination, die to unseen seer. Shouldn't ban illusion because greater invis enables SA, which is great. So, that leaves Enchantment, Necromancy, Abjuration, Conjuration, and Transmutation.

Multi Edit: So, Enchantment and Necromancy are out.
The other two choices are hard. =\
Conjuration and Transmutation are both very versatile and abjuration is... well, dispel magic.

Ultra Edit: Now, I wonder if I can persist Hunter's Eye and other goodies .... Dip into Incantatrix 3, perhaps? That means I lose a school as well... youch.

M-m-m-monster edit: I suppose I COULD pick divination and abjuration as an opposed and just deal with using extra spell slots - I can still cast those spells, since PF doesn't prohibit them. A good question would be whether, using Incantatrix on top of the PF Wizard, I can outright ban one of my opposed schools for Focused Studies and save a bit with the overlap?

Say, from Spellslinger:
Opposed: Enchantment, Necromancy, Divination, Abjuration
From Incantatrix:
Prohibited: Necromancy

Superlative Edit: Hah! Got it! Unseen Seer can use Advanced Learning to pick up Divine Insight, which can power Metamagic Effect to persist Hunter's Eye, which we also get via Advanced Learning! Spellcraft DC should be (18 + (3 x (2 + 6))) = 42. So, -10 for taking our time on the spellcraft check brings that to a 32 that we have to get out of ranks + insight. The earliest we can get two advanced learnings is about level 13 for Unseen Seer 5 and Incantatrix 3, which gives us a -14 from divine insight, dropping the number of required ranks to 18, minus another two for the synergy bonus from knowledge (Arcana), make it 16... which, coincidentally, is the maximum number of ranks we can have in spellcraft at that level. Hoorah.

Of course, that's an awful lot of investment for a spell that's already a swift action. We'd have to give up all our spellwarping fun and slow down our SA progression a little bit. Meh, maybe we shouldn't try to shoehorn in incantatrix after all.

[Novawurmson]

Spellslinger 20.

Seriously, bouncing around through prestige classes is not that necessary in Pathfinder.

[Yorae]

Spellslinger 20.

Seriously, bouncing around through prestige classes is not that necessary in Pathfinder.

Sure, you could do that, and it would probably play just fine, but what fun is that to build? CharOp is fun.
Necessary and desirable are very different things.

[RndmNumGen]

That sounds really cool... but I found a problem. Spellslinger loses cantrips, so he can't cast Mage Hand, which is a prereq for Arcane Trickster.

EDIT: Solutions for this... could pick up magical training... or I could take Rogue 3 for SA and take Minor Magic as my Rogue Trick. Alternatively, he could take the Grit Rogue Trick to pick up a point of grit, a single deed, and then an additional grit feat. That ain't bad, assuming the he qualifies for it by virtue of spellslinger.

Spellslinger loses the Cantrips ability, yes, so they don't learn all of them automatically and they don't get any 0th-level spell slots. That doesn't prevent them from learning Mage Hand and preparing it in a 1-st level spell slot though, which is all you need to do to qualify for the class.


Spellslinger 20.

Seriously, bouncing around through prestige classes is not that necessary in Pathfinder.

No, it's not necessary, especially with classes that get a lot of cool features like Barbarian, Rogue or Sorcerer, since these guys are constantly getting new things and upgrading their old ones as they increase their class level.

Gunslingers get most of their goodies within the first 5 levels though, and Spellslingers get everything(both bonuses and penalties) at 1st level. With every level past those being really boring, there is no reason not to go into a PRC, or even another base class.

[Big Fau]

Seriously, bouncing around through prestige classes is not that necessary in Pathfinder.

It isn't necessary in regular 3.5 either. But if you want to make an optimized character, you usually do have to (even in PF).

They did try to discourage dipping/PrCing, but the abilities they put in to replace those options didn't quite make up for it.

[Prime32]

Things to note:

There are rules on treating firearms as martial or simple weapons and reducing their cost (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/firearms), which make a lot more sense than the default. (early guns were valuable IRL because while they were less effective than a longbow they didn't require years of training) The simple weapon option also lets a gunslinger get Dex to damage from lv1.

It's not easy to find on the PFSRD, but alchemical cartridges let you reload faster (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/ammunition/alchemical-cartridges).

[Torben Raibeart]

You want something that are good with firearms you say? might I suggest Blackpowder Avenger from the Ravenloft-setting? (Ravenloft: Heroes of Light) Specialises in firearms, get bonusfeats related to this, a powdermonkey (apprentist) to help him reload, get a signature weapon he can sacrifice wisdom to in order of improving the weapon, and the ability to overload a weapon with gunpowder for ekstra damage.

[Venger]

Anyone know of any good, solid and/or powerful classes that can effectively utilize firearms? My DM was thinking about having one of her settings start to develop some low level tech, including gun powder, and this interested me. Maybe something that originally uses something like crossbows that could be adapted? Maybe I could tweak the Swift Hunter build to work for this (note: I've never build/played a swift hunter, so I'm not terribly familiar with it).

I'm also kind of interested in trying to make a "gun mage" sort of character, but I'm not really sure the best way to go about it. Spellwarp Sniper sounds awesome, but you're just pointing your fingers at people, as opposed to firing at them.

Sources open are all official WotC products (to include Dragon Mags, etc.), plus pathfinder material.

May I introduce you to the techsmith from p208 of faiths and pantheons?

full casting, free "EWP(firearms)" at first lvl, improved critical with EVERY WEAPON EVAR, ignore golem's DR, eventually kill golems if you get a crit on them (easier with imp crit everything), bonuses to craft checks, some new domains (probably best to enter it as a cleric) and a free cute, chubby robot friend at 1st lvl.