Best Story

[hivedragon]

Which video games that you've played had the best storylines?

[Zevox]

Persona 3 and 4, by a landslide, followed by Tales of the Abyss and Tales of Vesperia. Followed more distantly by Dragon Age 2.

I'd go into details, but I strongly suspect I'd spend way too much time doing so if I did, so for now I'll just leave it at the list.

Zevox

[Cespenar]

Planescape: Torment.

Dreamfall: The Longest Journey.

I'm not sure if Baldur's Gate 2 has a great storyline or just perfect execution.

KotOR 1, Witcher 2 and Bastion are some runner ups, among others I fail to recall.

I appreciate Bioware's recent works, but they don't (yes, I think they intentionally don't) come close to Planescape's level of storytelling.

[DemonicAngel]

Planescape: Torment.

why you ask? that means you haven't played it. go play it. now.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

In terms of storytelling, I'd say Bastion. The narration was just a perfect way of telling the story as I played through.

In terms of overall narrative and backstory, I'd probably go with Morrowind.

[Murska]

Planescape - Torment.

Then there's the 'others' - Deus Ex, Dreamfall, Baldur's Gates, a ton of Japanese games including the Personas and many Visual Novels, especially Ever17 (and Remember11... kinda). But those aren't really games.

And finally, the games where I tell my own stories: Europa Universalis 3, Rome - Total War, X-COM. They don't have a storyline per se, but every game creates a story of your own, and I've even written some of them down while playing, they're so real to me.

Probably some I fail to remember right now.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Pong. Timeless, inspiring, and heart-wrenching.








WHAT? WHY ARE YOU ALL LOOKING AT ME LIKE THAT?? :smalltongue:

[KingofMadCows]

Planescape: Torment

Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines

Legacy of Kain series

Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2

Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer

Heroes of Might and Magic 4, the Half-Dead and A Pirate's Daughter campaigns.

[Iskandar]

Planescape - Torment.

Then there's the 'others' - Deus Ex, Dreamfall, Baldur's Gates, a ton of Japanese games including the Personas and many Visual Novels, especially Ever17 (and Remember11... kinda). But those aren't really games.

And finally, the games where I tell my own stories: Europa Universalis 3, Rome - Total War, X-COM. They don't have a storyline per se, but every game creates a story of your own, and I've even written some of them down while playing, they're so real to me.

Probably some I fail to remember right now.

Ah, someone else who has played Ever17. That, so far, has got to be the most "Wait, WHAT?!" moment in a game ever. I agree,though, that visual novels barely qualify as a game in most cases.

[houlio]

+1 to Bastion, I just find it amazing that it can do so much with such little effort.

[Mx.Silver]

Some runners-up.

TBS
Heroes of Might and Magic 4 (core game, not the expansions)

RTS
Ground Control

JRPG
Shadow Hearts + Shadow Hearts 2 (note that I've yet to play any of the Persona games)

Platformer
Psychonauts

Adventure
Broken Sword (I would say it still narrowly beats-out The Longest Journey + Dreamfall)

FPS (-ish)
Deus Ex

RPG
Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines


Best Story

Planescape: Torment.


Planescape: Torment.


Planescape - Torment.


Planescape: Torment

As if there was any doubt :smalltongue:

[Landis963]

Of the [very, very few] games I've played, I'd say the best story has to be Alpha Protocol. Yes, it's kind of a dark horse game, but discounts have done wonders for its legacy. Also, you can't beat Steven Heck. You really can't. Honorable mention: Psychonauts, for its laugh-out-loud dialogue and cast of colorful characters (literally, the psychic blasting teacher is pale green and a mad scientist villain is bright blue and that's not getting into some of the mental characters) that are fully voice acted (And I do mean fully, for example: in one mind, there's a trio of bit actors. All three of them have two sets of lines, fully acted by one actor for each, and these are three bit characters who would be mute in a lesser game).

[Starwulf]

Earthbound. I love that game, and it's story is so quirky, and not just the main storyline, but all the side ones as well.

Chrono Trigger!

[late for dinner]

Mass Effect made me want more, i liked it so much

Uncharted 2, I couldnt stop playing...i beat it in one sitting

KOTOR was fantastic

COD Modern Warfare actually made me a little emotional in a certain part...no fps had ever done that to me before...but the following CODs i could care less about.

Bioshock...Setting, story, gameplay all equal fantastic

[The Underlord]

Pong. Timeless, inspiring, and heart-wrenching.








WHAT? WHY ARE YOU ALL LOOKING AT ME LIKE THAT?? :smalltongue:

[/thread] :smallwink:

[Howler Dagger]

Pong. Timeless, inspiring, and heart-wrenching.








WHAT? WHY ARE YOU ALL LOOKING AT ME LIKE THAT?? :smalltongue:

you win the thread.

[Emmerask]

Planescape: Torment.

why you ask? that means you haven't played it. go play it. now.

Indeed, the best by far I´ve seen to date!

[factotum]

+1 for Planescape: Torment here. Bastion had a unique and frankly brilliant way of *telling* its story, but I'm not sure the story itself was top-notch.

[banjo1985]

Shadowhearts was pretty special, it told it's admittedly bat-poo crazy story very well, with characters I actually gave a monkeys about. As a Brit myself, the portrayal of the English gent Roger Bacon as a moustache twiddling evil psycopath was really well done!

Tales of Vesperia had some great characters, and the middle of the story was pretty engaging. The start left something to be desired though, and the ending was a bit by-the-numbers.

Bioshock had a great story for an FPS, and worked in the atmosphere and dystopian decay of the setting really well into the game.

Grandia 1 & 2's stories were both very well told, even if when it all boiled down to it they were high fantasy cliches. They were told so well for the time that it didn't matter.

I've got a soft spot for La Pucelle Tactics, Digital Devil Saga 1 & 2, Legend of Dragoon and FFIX (end-boss not withstanding) too.

[Person_Man]

Question about Planescape: Torment, which I've oddly never played.

It's clear that the story is beloved. But how is the actual game play?

Being an older RPG game, I'm deeply afraid of the Walls of Text and their ability to paralyze me with frustration.

[Cieyrin]

've got a soft spot for La Pucelle Tactics, Digital Devil Saga 1 & 2, Legend of Dragoon and FFIX (end-boss not withstanding) too.

It took this long to get a mention? Really?!? The Legend of Dragoon is the game I come back to again and again over the years, because the story IS that good.

Battle for Wesnoth also has an excellent plotline throughout the campaigns, which has been polished over the last decade and more to be enjoyed by new gamers who discover it.

Sanitarium was a gem that GOG peddled at me this past summer and it was, indeed, amazing, despite being dated. Fighting to get it to work and figuring out some of the moon logic notwithstanding, it was a fun couple of days from start to finish.

[Cespenar]

Question about Planescape: Torment, which I've oddly never played.

It's clear that the story is beloved. But how is the actual game play?

Being an older RPG game, I'm deeply afraid of the Walls of Text and their ability to paralyze me with frustration.

If you're not fond of quality reading material, Planescape is not for you. The game has a tendency to drop a good two paragraphs full of pure description of an NPC even before you start an actual conversation with him/her/it. They never get dull, though. Never verbosity for the sake of it. Or so I felt.

Gameplay is akin to the other Infinity Engine games, (BG, IWD, etc.) but nothing to write home about. It's not its selling point anyway.

[Worguron]

I'll have to add my vote to Chrono Trigger (I also loved Chrono Cross) and Earthbound.

And now I have to say something that will get me yelled at and torn to bits, but I didn't really enjoy Planescape: Torment. It might have been a matter of being told by so many people that it was the most amazing thing ever, and nothing could live up to the hype that I had heard, but I never really got that into the story.

[Squark]

Question about Planescape: Torment, which I've oddly never played.

It's clear that the story is beloved. But how is the actual game play?

Being an older RPG game, I'm deeply afraid of the Walls of Text and their ability to paralyze me with frustration.

I've never played the game myself, but as best I can describe it, picture an Interactive Novel... done right. There is a lot of text, but you feel gripped to the dialogue within the story. The gameplay itself... Every infinity Engine game I've played is relatively well executed in that regard, so I imagine the same holds true for PST. So, yes, you are looking at walls of texts, but then, a book is nothing but a wall of text, and I imagine you read those.

I definately enjoyed Baldur's Gate II (although I really need to go back and re-experience the game now that I'm getting better at actually role-playing in an video-game RPG). In more recent times, the Mass Effect series definitely captured my attention, and what little I've played of Star Wars: The Old Republic was [redacted] and [redacted]. :smallwink:

[Brother Oni]

I'm going to buck the trend and say Vampire the Masquerade: Redemption. Bloodlines was the better game (especially after the various fan and unofficial patches), but Redemption had the better story in my opinion.

FFX is another I like.

The original FF Tactics - first time I've ever played a game with that complex and political a plot.

[Liffguard]

Another vote here for Planescape: Torment. It's a genuinely haunting story that sticks with you.

As for gameplay, it's simplistic but competent, and it's hardly the draw anyway.

[houlio]

+1 for Planescape: Torment here. Bastion had a unique and frankly brilliant way of *telling* its story, but I'm not sure the story itself was top-notch.

I would probably agree with you, I just haven't had the time to play Planescape: Torment for more than like an hour at a time due to external factors. Then I take a break for a week and have to start over when I forget what was going on. Maybe the next time I get a long break from school I'll plow through it.

On the other hand, the nature of Bastion's story fits my schedule ideally, and I really think that the highly episodic nature of the story worked really well for the entire theme of the game. The story is told in fragmented bits in each different locale, and each locale is just a fragment of Caelondia's history before the Calamity. That's the kind of thematic consistency I like to see in a game.

[Forbiddenwar]

Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty
JK
Minecraft
Still just kidding.

Seriously. Legacy of Kain series. Hands down.
Although Minecraft is a serious contender

[Spiryt]

What can change nature of a man?

Planescape Torment, for sure.

[KingofMadCows]

Well I, for one, plan on discovering the secrets of the multiverse by rubbing cottage cheese on my belly and eating vast quantities of fresh-water fish. Mmm... cheese.

[king.com]

Baldur's Gate 2 personally, Planescape Torment was good and had some interesting ideas but for me there was nothing to directly address my interests, such that something like Deus Ex does. Unfortunately the DE story isnt the best so i go with BG2.

[Avilan the Grey]

Planescape: Torment

Baldur's Gate II

Baldur's Gate I

The Mass Effect series is shaping up to be one, if one counts all three parts as a single story (as you should).

[Murska]

I actually thought about including Mass Effect... I like the story okay, the aesthetics are nice and the ambience is great. However, there's just a bunch of annoyances that, for now, keep it from making the very top tier. The foremost among these being the last choice of the second game, which was frankly ridiculous and stupid.

[Avilan the Grey]

I actually thought about including Mass Effect... I like the story okay, the aesthetics are nice and the ambience is great. However, there's just a bunch of annoyances that, for now, keep it from making the very top tier. The foremost among these being the last choice of the second game, which was frankly ridiculous and stupid.

I know. Some people didn't blow the base up. That IS ridiculous and stupid. :smallwink::smallbiggrin:

[Murska]

I know. Some people didn't blow the base up. That IS ridiculous and stupid. :smallwink::smallbiggrin:

Heh.

But yeah, neither of the options make any sense, and especially glaring are the reactions of your crew and everyone else if you save the base. The choice at the end of ME1 wasn't really bad, but the results in ME2 were - however, ME2 is just horrible regardless of the results.

Personally, I just imagine that I saved the base and then, after the game ended, my Shep gave it to the Alliance not only to spite TIM, but also to give humanity the best possible chance of surviving against the Reapers.

[Acanous]

Alone in the Dark: Sanity's Requiem
Planescape: Torment
Skies of Arcadia, which was awesome like Grandia without being quite so cliche' :p

Mass Effect's story is also pretty good, if you ignore the grindy bits.

Honestly I don't get the hype from Persona. It and .Hack are both games that got a lot of hype that, possibly BECAUSE of the hype, underwhelmed me.

[Asthix]

No love for text based? Adventure! Zork, etc.

Ooh, X-Com got a mention. That game really let you make up your own story vividly.

Also, Fall From Heaven II ( For Civ 4) has more of a massive mythology than storyline, but still.

Finally, my favorite storyline is Final Fantasy II (or IV if you go by Japanese count).

[Cespenar]

No love for text based? Adventure! Zork, etc.


Oh, text based! Thanks for the reminder. Then I have to add Worlds Apart (http://ironphoenix.org/tril/worlds/), for being the best written Interactive Fiction that I've played.

[Zen Master]

Oh ... the Thief series has extremely good story as well. Even Thief 3 is more than decently adequate, despite not being quite as awesome as the other two.

Btw, after the Steam sale on Vampire: Bloodlines, the various forums are surprisingly lively with questions and so on. I wonder if that might inspire someone, somewhere, to do a sequel.

[Mewtarthio]

Alone in the Dark: Sanity's Requiem

Is that a game? I've heard of Alone in the Dark, and I've heard of Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem. Did you mean one of those?

[Starwulf]

Hmm, I just thought of another game, one that is practically an interactive story ^^. Penumbra!

[Hyudra]

The original FF Tactics - first time I've ever played a game with that complex and political a plot.

I'm a huge fan of FFT on a lot of levels, and the story is just one part of it. I don't know why you said 'original' though, unless you're implying the playstation version of the game was better than the PSP one (I've never played the PSP version, so can't say)... there were never any sequels. They didn't happen.

It's arguably cheating to say it has one of the best stories, though. You're taking a pre-existing event (The War of the Roses) and compounding all that drama and chaos by adding a subplot where it's actually a cult of demon worshipers that are manipulating events behind the scenes.

The problem with the story of FFT is that most players never even grasp it all. Many details and story elements are hidden in Alazam's journal entries, propositions and bar rumors that I'd say 90% of players never even read.

[Giggling Ghast]

Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball. Very engrossing plot. :smalltongue:

[Eloel]

I'm not sure how Braid was not mentioned, but, yeah, Braid.

[Mx.Silver]

Also, Fall From Heaven II ( For Civ 4) has more of a massive mythology than storyline, but still.

Yeah, that's not really a story. 4x games typically don't bother with one as it's rather hard to implement. The possible exception to this being Alpha Centauri, which does have something of a plot to it.

[Brother Oni]

I'm a huge fan of FFT on a lot of levels, and the story is just one part of it. I don't know why you said 'original' though, unless you're implying the playstation version of the game was better than the PSP one (I've never played the PSP version, so can't say)... there were never any sequels. They didn't happen.


The PSP story has been streamlined and made significantly less complex.

It does have a better translation, but the simplification is still noticeable.



It's arguably cheating to say it has one of the best stories, though. You're taking a pre-existing event (The War of the Roses) and compounding all that drama and chaos by adding a subplot where it's actually a cult of demon worshipers that are manipulating events behind the scenes.

I'd say that setting is heavily part of a story, since that sets the tone of the story. I agree that the main thrust of Ramza's story is the demon worshipping cult, but since Delita becomes king of one of the major warring factions, it intersects quite heavily with Ramza's.

Again, I'd argue that piggybacking off the back of a pre-exisiting event makes for a thinner story, since the intersection of your own plot fitting around the known plot is the measure how good your story is.

A lot of historical fiction relies on this; for example, Pompeii by Robert Harris is a fascinating look at the lives of ordinary citizens in the days immediately preceding the eruption.
You know what's going to happen, but you don't know any of the details - wikipedia reports that ~16,000 people died, but that's just a statistic. Every one of those people had a story, had lives, family, friends, jobs, all coming together to make a living city.

So I view the FFT story much like this - a small but personal story framed by massive world affecting events. The fact that defeating the demon cult had an equally important effect on the world, but was lost in the chaos is just sad and is what makes people take up the study of history.



The problem with the story of FFT is that most players never even grasp it all. Many details and story elements are hidden in Alazam's journal entries, propositions and bar rumors that I'd say 90% of players never even read.

I agree in that it's not obvious, but like many things, you are rewarded for paying attention and thinking about things.
I suppose it's like everyday life in that respect - if you do nothing but focus on what immediately affects you and your life, you miss the wider scope of what's happening in the world.


Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball. Very engrossing plot. :smalltongue:

I agree - the various... plots just bounce along happily, don't they? :smalltongue:

[Nargan]

My list:

Bastion

Final Fantasy 9

Legend of Dragoon

Warcraft series excluding WoW

Penny arcade episodes 1+2

[Cieyrin]

Penny arcade episodes 1+2

Oh yeah, I forgot about those. Good stuff, Fruit ****ers and all! :smallbiggrin:

[Acanous]

Is that a game? I've heard of Alone in the Dark, and I've heard of Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem. Did you mean one of those?

I actually meant both. I had typed in Alone in the Dark, then wrote some stuff, finished it with Eternal Darkness, changed my mind about the middle stuff, deleted, and then upon previewing, missed that I had merged the two games.

Whoops.

[deuxhero]

Anything with Chris Avellone on the writing.

[warty goblin]

Anything with Chris Avellone on the writing.

I'm not sure I would go that far. I mean I played all of Alpha Protocol, and enjoyed the hell out of it. However given that even after finishing it I'm still not sure exactly what the plot was, I'm not sure I'd put it on a pedestal of narrative.

[deuxhero]

AP went through many rewrites. It started as a Mitsoda work.
What was hard to follow?

[Arbitrarity]

What can change the nature of a man?
MoTB was also quite good. I feel like DA and ME could match up in some of their later installments, especially considering how they just finished setting up big setting conflicts.
Also, since I'm playing BG2 right now, it's really interesting to see how Bioware's style has evolved from BG-BG2-NWN-DA, and the effects of more prevalent voice acting.
Also, DA being labelled "dark" fantasy makes sense compared to NWN and BG, just based on setting. Faerun is pretty silly like that.

[Cogwheel]

Anything with Chris Avellone on the writing.

Sadly, no. Chris Avellone considers Planescape to be far from his best work (basically, he thinks he tried too hard, was too verbose/story-heavy and generally scared people off). One example of his supposed better writing is Icewind Dale, which is just sad.

Oh well.

[Cespenar]

Sadly, no. Chris Avellone considers Planescape to be far from his best work (basically, he thinks he tried too hard, was too verbose/story-heavy and generally scared people off). One example of his supposed better writing is Icewind Dale, which is just sad.

Oh well.

What is this madness?

[Landis963]

I'm not sure I would go that far. I mean I played all of Alpha Protocol, and enjoyed the hell out of it. However given that even after finishing it I'm still not sure exactly what the plot was, I'm not sure I'd put it on a pedestal of narrative.

In a nutshell: EvilCorp funds terrorists as part of insidious, convoluted plot to spark cold war, terrorist leader tells you about this & three other plots to further said goal, you try to foil each, endgame sends you back to the base of the shadowy organization that trained you to expose it/EvilCorp/both. And all the while, several factions/movers&shakers try to have their way with you, most of them may not survive the experience depending on your choice. That's basically the broad strokes, as broad strokes as possible since I'm not entirely familiar with the spoiler function, and much of the spoilers aren't entirely necessary for the full plot anyway. I'd agree that AP's story isn't pedestal-worthy, but dialogue? Character interaction? That's up there, and a big part of how fun it is.

[Cogwheel]

What is this madness?

Chris Avellone is a strange, strange person.

He seems to think that Planescape is simultaneously good, and a mistake he doesn't intend to repeat.

[Spiryt]

Anything with Chris Avellone on the writing.

So, like total mess that was KoToR 2?

It seems that Planescape was pretty much one of a kind stuff, or perhaps key is in 'details' and other designers that made it just magic.

[KingofMadCows]

KotoR 2 was a great game. It was much better written than KotoR 1 despite its unfinished state. Characters were much more fleshed out and there were real dilemmas and consequences involved in your choices.

In KotoR 1, once you found out that you're Revan, you either just become Revan again if you're dark side or completely reject Revan if you're light side. You're never actually faced with the things you did as Revan. In KotoR 2, you're challenged with your decision at Malacor V. You see the consequences of your actions and you must justify what you did or repent. Although you can also be evasive and refuse to express any feelings but there are consequences for that too.

Similarly, Telos is destroyed in KotoR 1 only for shock value and you pretty much just forget about it 5 minutes later. KotoR 2 actually deals with the aftermath of the destruction. You get to see what people really think about Jedi's role in the Mandalorian War and the war with the Sith, and how they often blame the Jedis for the destruction wrought upon the galaxy.

[deuxhero]

Indeed, that's my problem with anyone calling KotOR 1's twist good. The "twist" changes absolutely nothing about the plot's direction.

[Landis963]

Indeed, that's my problem with anyone calling KotOR 1's twist good. The "twist" changes absolutely nothing about the plot's direction.

Maybe not, but it completely changes everything that came before it, and thus reserves most of its impact for a new game plus, where you get to pick up on all the foreshadowing. Is this good twist design? Maybe, maybe not, but it's not exactly conventional. I do agree that it's just another layer on the same plotline.

[KingofMadCows]

Maybe not, but it completely changes everything that came before it, and thus reserves most of its impact for a new game plus, where you get to pick up on all the foreshadowing. Is this good twist design? Maybe, maybe not, but it's not exactly conventional. I do agree that it's just another layer on the same plotline.

How does it change everything that came before and how does it change new game plus? It's not like you can just yell to everyone, "hey, I'm Darth Revan!" in a new game. Heck, even after you recover your memories, it barely gets mentioned. No one in the Sith Academy believes you and your companions don't really give a big reaction.

And it's very conventional twist design except for the fact that it add no significant changes to the story. Being Revan doesn't really help you to defeat Malak if you're playing light side and it doesn't really help you to take over the Sith if you're playing dark side.

[deuxhero]

I was more on "You are still finding the star maps and still killing Malek just like you were without it". When the story does not change at all if the twist is removed (beyond the twist itself), it's a terrible twist.

[Aricandor]

Planescape. Easily. :)

[Landis963]

How does it change everything that came before and how does it change new game plus?

Mostly in the "Oh hey, Carth was right about most of his paranoia" sense. It's a different feel, mostly, and doesn't really change most of the mechanics. Which is kind of a shame, now that I think about it.

[Mx.Silver]

I was more on "You are still finding the star maps and still killing Malek just like you were without it". When the story does not change at all if the twist is removed (beyond the twist itself), it's a terrible twist.

Pretty much this. It's really just a surprise reveal, in much the same respect as the protagonist's ancestry in Baldur's Gate. Now if we talking about Jade Empire (which is arguably the best plot Bioware have written) that'd be a different matter entirely...

[Cespenar]

Pretty much this. It's really just a surprise reveal, in much the same respect as the protagonist's ancestry in Baldur's Gate. Now if we talking about Jade Empire (which is arguably the best plot Bioware have written) that'd be a different matter entirely...

Heh.

"You know, there's something iffy with your stance, but I can't put my finger on it."

[Dublock]

Ok, I do love (most) of what people have said and I do want to toss out another game that I think deserves mention, it might be slightly traditional, but I loved it.

Tales of Symphonia for the Game Cube is one of my all time favorite games mostly because of the story and how they set up the setting overall, the magic, the spirits, how they all interact, how the people look at the spirits, and how the worlds interact.

I love how they went into the character's backgrounds, gave them personalities, hear (sometimes random) conversations, I love the way they added a whole new layer to the game towards the end of disc 1, and how they told the story of Lloyd and Colette growing up.

Some of the "twists" don't shock most people Kratos and Lloyd, but the story doesn't really build it up for the player, only the character.

[Lamar]

Yeah every game depends upon the story if it is good then it will be revealed successfully story consists on many things that like characters,backgrounds and the animation of it.

[Cieyrin]

Another good series that lives by its story: Geneforge Saga.

Each of the factions you interact with are neither truly good or truly evil, they all believe they're doing the right thing for their people and, in later games, the world at large. What you do influences how others perceive you and the direction the plot goes, with the ultimate confrontation capable of going multiple directions, whether you join the big bad or kill him and decide whether you'll take control of the McGuffin or destroy it.

It does it in a pretty sandbox way, too. Great series. :smallcool:

[KingofMadCows]

Pretty much this. It's really just a surprise reveal, in much the same respect as the protagonist's ancestry in Baldur's Gate. Now if we talking about Jade Empire (which is arguably the best plot Bioware have written) that'd be a different matter entirely...

But the reveal for the Bhaalspawn has an impact. It meant that Sarevok may not be the only person after you. It sets up a lot of future conflicts. It also sets up an important choice about whether you want to embrace Bhaal's legacy.


Another good series that lives by its story: Geneforge Saga.

Each of the factions you interact with are neither truly good or truly evil, they all believe they're doing the right thing for their people and, in later games, the world at large. What you do influences how others perceive you and the direction the plot goes, with the ultimate confrontation capable of going multiple directions, whether you join the big bad or kill him and decide whether you'll take control of the McGuffin or destroy it.

It does it in a pretty sandbox way, too. Great series. :smallcool:

Geneforge 1 and 2 had obviously evil villains. There's Goettsch in Geneforge 1 and Barzahl in Geneforge 2. The player can also become the big bad by killing everyone and abusing canisters.

[Mx.Silver]

But the reveal for the Bhaalspawn has an impact. It meant that Sarevok may not be the only person after you. It sets up a lot of future conflicts. It also sets up an important choice about whether you want to embrace Bhaal's legacy.


Not saying it doesn't have an impact, just that it doesn't actually alter the plot of BG1. Before you found out your goal was to stop the Iron Throne and defeat Sarevok and after you found out your goal was still stop the Iron Throne and defeat Sarevok. You could have skipped the revelation entirely and the rest of the story would have played-out pretty the same, with maybe a couple of dialogue changes. It has a big impact on the sequel's plot, but it's a starting premise of that story.

[Avilan the Grey]

Not saying it doesn't have an impact, just that it doesn't actually alter the plot of BG1. Before you found out your goal was to stop the Iron Throne and defeat Sarevok and after you found out your goal was still stop the Iron Throne and defeat Sarevok

Wait, are we still talking about writing or are we talking about plot. If we are talking about plot, I agree with you. However it is VERY good writing.

[KingofMadCows]

Not saying it doesn't have an impact, just that it doesn't actually alter the plot of BG1. Before you found out your goal was to stop the Iron Throne and defeat Sarevok and after you found out your goal was still stop the Iron Throne and defeat Sarevok. You could have skipped the revelation entirely and the rest of the story would have played-out pretty the same, with maybe a couple of dialogue changes. It has a big impact on the sequel's plot, but it's a starting premise of that story.

But they already planned to continue the Bhaalspawn's story. There was no plan to continue Revan's story. In fact, if Obsidian hadn't come up with the idea of Revan trying to preserve the Republic to fight a bigger threat, Revan would have just been another stereotypical Sith Lord bent on galactic conquest.

[Mx.Silver]

Wait, are we still talking about writing or are we talking about plot. If we are talking about plot, I agree with you. However it is VERY good writing.

Discussing plot. I'm not trying to suggest that they were badly written.



But they already planned to continue the Bhaalspawn's story. There was no plan to continue Revan's story.

Not really relevant. That a sequel builds on an element of the original's self-contained plot (which BG1 had) doesn't increase the bearing of that element on said original's plot.

[The Succubus]

Although the story of Bastion is pretty straightforward, I do love its unique use of narration. <3

With regards to Legacy of Kain, Blood Omen and Soul Reaver had rock solid plots and remain two of my most beloved games. With SR 2, however, it went into cuckoolocoland, bouncing and giggling all the way and while it came vaguely back on track in Defiance and BO 2, the series still screams for a definitive ending.

Finally, Shadowhearts 1 & 2 - to the people that mentioned this game, I love you and want to have your demonspawn. The characters of Yuri and Roger Bacon were particularly well done and Alice was a pretty convincing love interest, even more so after the delicious plot twist at the end (unless you did the hidden stuff :smallwink:).

[Brother Oni]

Finally, Shadowhearts 1 & 2 - to the people that mentioned this game, I love you and want to have your demonspawn. The characters of Yuri and Roger Bacon were particularly well done and Alice was a pretty convincing love interest, even more so after the delicious plot twist at the end (unless you did the hidden stuff :smallwink:).

However the hidden stuff isn't canon, meaning that the standard ending is the default scenario for SH2, which leads to an absolutely heartbreaking scene in the middle and quite a bittersweet ending overall for Yuri and Karin.

In comparison SH3 didn't interest me anywhere near as much - the game was good, but the story didn't grip me and I lost interest somewhere near the salt temple.

[Mx.Silver]

In comparison SH3 didn't interest me anywhere near as much - the game was good, but the story didn't grip me and I lost interest somewhere near the salt temple.

Yeah, From The New World was a pretty big disappointment. Fairly notable shift in tone, generally less interesting characters, fanservice cranked-up to a downright silly degree and it had very little to do with any of the previous games. It also puzzled me why there was no mention whatsoever of Haley or Koudelka - given that both of them were living in the US after the events of the first game.
What got me in the end though was the amount of hoops you had to jump though to unlock Mao's higher level abilities, to the point were it basically stopped being worth using her. Hilda wasn't much better in this regard, given the high MP cost of her Blood Drain ability coupled with the fact that it didn't actually do anything to anyone it hit.

[The Succubus]

However the hidden stuff isn't canon, meaning that the standard ending is the default scenario for SH2, which leads to an absolutely heartbreaking scene in the middle and quite a bittersweet ending overall for Yuri and Karin.

I think the bit that really made the story for me was:

The scene where Alice meets the Masks for the second time and has to make good on her end of the bargain. The fight with her all alone in pitch darkness against 7-Eyes chilled me to the bone and tingled my inner bard.