Who did you hate in Mass Effect 2? [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Vknight

2011-11-16, 08:36 PM

My problems

Jack
Jack is self loathing angry, suicidal and not as strong as she thinks. Her rage is directed to all of Cerberus when all evidence says Illusive man tried to hunt down these guys for what they did.
She gets angry at Miranda for being apart of Cerberus and wants her dead on the premise that Miranda supports Cerberus. Not Miranda does say she finds what happens to Jack appalling but Jack still gets violent with her.
Jack also never listens or learns. She views her opinion as the sole and only correct one. Blames everyone else for here bad decisions and always assumes the worst of people.

Miranda
She was smug just a little to much. But once you do her quest and replay through it all she's just trying to hold all the pieces to her own personal puzzle. She wants people to believe she knows everything as a self confidence boost. After all she is a test tube baby and only a baby making machine for her father. And when she failed at that her father decided 'I will just start over and since I don't need this one I can kill it and the next until we get it right'

Grunt
The Stereotypical krogan. He is supposed to show us the Krogan ideal and normal mental state. This is to let us decide whether it is right to give the Krogans the genophage or try and cure it.
Personally I say I don't care. Really Krogans are violent non adaptive and war like. Their Orcs but harder to kill. So as for me take the good remove the bad

Samara
I don't like her or dislike her. Samara is a lawful stupid paladin and knows it. She lives by the code and is fully accepting of it which I can respect.
My problem is how she handles her daughter. Ardant Yakashi is a disease that from all conversations hints at being able to be cured. But Samara does not care and wants her child dead.
We have the best scientist in the universe let Mordin study your daughter!

As for the Daughter.
I want to be able to bed her without dieing! Shepard is awesome and a bad-ass and should be able to survive the process. The developers were jerks to actually kill you for interacting with her because she's the only Asari your getting close to this game(Without Shadow Brocker, and the previous game)
I want my Mordith! I want my super deadly sexy Asari and I want to be able to survive on the pure fact your character is just that awesome!

Jacob
I want to kill him. He ruins his dads dream. Why didn't he help him you know bring supplies remove the rebels. If he did that then Jacob and Shepard could have a island paradise but no no you got to do the right thing Jacob.
I want to be evil! I had no true evil option in his quest and that is my problem with it.
I want to play a character that has the ability to become worse then the Reapers I want the ability to become the scourge of humanity!

Nothing else at the moment

MCerberus

2011-11-16, 08:53 PM

Jack had issues yes, but mellows out if you avoid renegade options. I didn't much care for Jacob (redshirt), Zaed I didn't care enough to ever bring on a mission.

Grunt's big issue.
and it's a really huge problem.
Grunt isn't Wrex. Grunt sure isn't bad, but Wrex was more interesting.

ryu

2011-11-16, 09:00 PM

All of the above I more or less agree with except for one thing. Miranda competent you say? The girl who runs up and kills a crew mate of yours calling him a traitor with no evidence when you only just met her? In the real world would you just swallow that? Even if she is innocent automatically she's not exactly doing a good job of presenting herself.

My other problem with Miranda besides the rant from before was that you can't really be mean to her. Come on game! I can practically tear out everyone's heart with a spoon but I can't even spit in her general direction and she's my second most hated character. First would be illusive man and third is Jack. Better still give me the option of feeding Miranda to Mordith. I just can't be the only one who would want to do that.

Landis963

2011-11-16, 10:31 PM

Starting in Recruitment order:

Miranda: Bossy, arrogant, dares to call herself your XO (I mean really, shouldn't you have some say in that?), and holds everyone (including herself) to impossible standards because of daddy issues. Off-screen daddy issues, no less - I wouldn't mind it if there was some inkling of them before "Oh, BTWs, I stole a kid from a stable household because I didn't want my father to control her." Miranda, darling, that is not the way to make sure your baby sister is happy. Her shooting Wilson would be justified if she backed up her guess, but she never does. It doesn't help that she's frigging right. Jack is a much better character because her issues were actually foreshadowed.

Zaeed: Bloodthirsty maniac of a merc who I wouldn't trust with a gun on the same planet as me, let alone the same squad. Also a case of "loyalty mission issues out of nowhere," because you'd think a routine "kill Blue Suns, F their S" mission wouldn't really count until, OH NOES, Zaeed's forgotten his anger pills. Never downloaded him, never will, I can beat the game without him. And no, I don't care about the flamethrower.

I don't really hate anyone else, but Samara kinda weirds me out. Uniformly cold, with mild regret thrown in at times to taste. I wish I knew how she does that supernova thing she does when she meditates though, because perfect showoff/intimidation tool, right there.

Zevox

2011-11-16, 10:38 PM

Nobody. Grunt was boring, but in the same way all Krogan are. Jacob was bland. And that's about the extent of my criticism of the main cast. Jack is actually my second favorite of the new party after Mordin, and Miranda is quite good too.

The only thing I really disliked about ME2 was the switch to using an ammo system from the overheat system of 1. Other than that, straight-up improvement on all fronts, characters included (actually, characters especially).

Edit: Having been reminded of it in another thread, there's also planet scanning. That did suck. But it's the only big complaint I had with the game.

Zevox

Kaun

2011-11-16, 10:50 PM

Jack was the only one who really annoyed me. After a while i was like "Cerberus, i will do what ever you want as long as in the future when you build these illegal backwater test facilities you ensure that the children who's brains you are screwing with don't live to an age where they can complain to me about it!"

Lord Raziere

2011-11-17, 12:17 AM

Jack. When she died during the Suicide Mission, I cheered.

MCerberus

2011-11-17, 12:22 AM

doliest

2011-11-17, 12:26 AM

Jacob. Way too bland for my taste.

I liked everyone else(and could put up with Miranda) but, d*** Jacob.

Oh yeah, and I hated The Illusive Man. Blew up the base, just to spite him. Didn't help that a funny little quirk of team choice meant he came off as really bad at manipulating people.

chiasaur11

2011-11-17, 12:27 AM

The only companion I lose on either playthrough was Zaed. Oh, silly me expecting a hardened mercenary leader with decades of experience to be able to lead a fireteam.

He had the personality of a potato, but died like a boss.

Did you listen to any of his stories?

"They all died, so I made out like a bandit!"

"This one guy I used to work with, he's dead now, well, he died when on a mission with me."

"I went to a bar once. Not everyone got out alive."

"Spending time with me is a death sentence."

MCerberus

2011-11-17, 12:47 AM

They all seemed like variations on, "I'm generic action man, a mercenary with a heart of stone."

Hell, his loyalty mission ended with a slow-motion fireball.

Lord of the Helms

2011-11-17, 12:49 AM

In-character: Zaeed earned my scorn the moment he put innocents at risk for the sake of revenge. Morinth is an evil selfish bitch that I would never allow on my team, even more so because I'd have to sacrifice Samara for her, and I could NEVER play a Shepard who isn't completely dedicated and devoted to his crewmates, let alone actually betraying one of them.

Out of character, I don't hate any of my crewmates. All of them work very well in their roles. Zaeed is a bastard and supposed to be one, but he gives you some of the finest Paragon choices in the game, and his stories are morbid fun. The worst I can say is that I'm really unhappy about being unable to get close to and redeem Jack without romancing her, especially since I felt that other characters, like Thane, Samara, Mordin and Jacob offered excellent non-romance friendship paths. Oh, and not having proper on-ship dialogue for Zaeed and Kasumi was a bummer.

chiasaur11

2011-11-17, 01:13 AM

They all seemed like variations on, "I'm generic action man, a mercenary with a heart of stone."

Hell, his loyalty mission ended with a slow-motion fireball.

Which lead directly to the death of the hostages.

The whole job was, in theory, saving hostages.

Zaeed is very good at killing. He is bad at everything else.

Vknight

2011-11-17, 01:20 AM

So in general we all dislike Jack. We would prefer to go friendship with her and help that way rather then finding out about her tattoo collection.
We can find Miranda annoying just depends on are interpretation of the character. But I have a counter statement to that. Human never going to have kids and pumped with hormones.
Grunt is boring
Morinth is evil but sexy and we want a way to redeem her rather then kill her or her mother
Samara is cold unless you romance her but it does not count for the achievement of give a cut-scene but she does acknowledge a love for you and that's it. So we want her less frosty and more romance
Tali is perfect
Jacob was boring red shirt
Mordin was awesome
Garrus is sniper of awesome
Legion is a freaking Geth
Zaeed is arrogant and causes so many problems
Kasumi we got nothing so neutral

Landis963

2011-11-17, 01:27 AM

Which lead directly to the death of the hostages.

The whole job was, in theory, saving hostages.

Zaeed is very good at killing. He is bad at everything else.

It's a little worse than that, IMO. :smallmad:This thing with Vido came out of literally nowhere (Zaeed's connection to the Blue Suns was mentioned in Garrus' recruitment mission, but Vido was not), and its suddenly something big enough for Zaeed to derail the entire mission. :smallfurious:I'm sorry, but if there is something like this in your past, I should know about it BEFORE we go somewhere it could compromise the mission. As it is, Zaeed's past with Vido seems shoehorned in to provide extra conflict. And Zaeed's mission could have been so much more than it was, even without Vido - just have the mercs set the factory to blow (note: Vido does not need to be present for this to occur) and have the rest of the mission be about clearing a path behind you for the still-alive workers (who are trapped somehow). Flaming setpieces and chest-high girders and piles of rubble, gunplay around said flaming setpieces and chest-high debris, puzzles to remove flames on setpieces, etc. But of course Zaeed can't have a mission go as planned, can he? [/rant]

factotum

2011-11-17, 03:02 AM

I didn't hate anyone in that game. Hate is a really strong emotion and I find it hard to generate it for a bunch of pixels! I can only think of maybe one or two people in RL I've ever hated...

Acanous

2011-11-17, 03:25 AM

I disliked Miranda and Jack.

Egocentric B*** who tows the party line and disregards any complaint you have with her organization?
Psycho B*** who thinks it's cool to tell you all about what a bad person she used to be?

Yeah, thanks, I'm fine without having my ex girlfriends in this game...

Also:
I liked Jacob. He was a good guy. Quiet, thoughtful, and focused when he needed to be. He's got some conflicted opinions on cerburus when you meet him, and he comes across as the kind of guy who would back you up no matter who you were fighting once you earned his respect as a CO.

The problem was, apart from the first 20 minutes of gameplay, and another 10 minutes during his loyalty mission, Jacob wasn't really given a lot of things to say or do. So he fell flat for most people, and the femshep romance angle only got you "He's got a hard body".

I'd definately be cool with Jacob backing me up on the battlefield, and I'd have a good time with him and Garrus at a bar (But not Afterlife, that's asking for trouble). Out of all the new squadmates that DON'T know the reapers exist, he's the only one I can see being serious about fighting them JUST because you told him they need to be fought.

Zorg

2011-11-17, 03:29 AM

My problems
Jacob
I want to kill him. He ruins his dads dream. Why didn't he help him you know bring supplies remove the rebels. If he did that then Jacob and Shepard could have a island paradise but no no you got to do the right thing Jacob.
I want to be evil! I had no true evil option in his quest and that is my problem with it.
I want to play a character that has the ability to become worse then the Reapers I want the ability to become the scourge of humanity!

I've got to say I'm not surprised the game doesn't allow you to support the guy keeping his female crew as drugged up sex slaves. But maybe that's just me...

I disliked Jack, if only for the fact that there was no option to call her out on her 'rargleblargle I'm so hardcore gonna call myself xJacKx now' garbage.

I probably disliked Aria the next most out of the various characters in ME2, for similar reasons.

For Miranda, see my sig.

As a side note only one of Zaeed's stories involve everyone else dying, and that was his first suicide mission. At the bar one of his friends died, and most of his other stories are about him brutally murdering people.

Avilan the Grey

2011-11-17, 03:31 AM

Was it Miranda the self aggrandizing, bossy, incompetent, Cerberus cow? Maybe Jack the uber-confrontational, vicious, Cerberus science project? Oh how about either of the two insane Asari party member options?

Who did you hate and more importantly why?

Nobody. Why would I hate anyone?

agentnone

2011-11-17, 03:52 AM

I had no problems with any of the characters you had in your group. They all acted the way they were supposed to. Though I agree with Lord of the Helms that you couldn't converse with Zaheed or Kasumi on the Normandy. And even further that you couldn't have a romance with either of them as well. But that's not here nor there.

Anyway, the person I hated the most in Mass Effect 2 had to be Liara. Don't get me wrong, I think she's the best character (ok, maybe not best, but a 3-way tie with Tali and Garrus) in the game. But when playing, I was frustrated as hell when, after 2 years of being dead and her being the one that recovered your body and handed it over to Cerberus to bring back you would think that she would be all sorts of excited to see you when you show up on Illium. Instead, she just smiles and gives you a bro-hug. And then, when you ask her to help you out to save the galaxy again, she says she'd rather mess with her grudge against the Shadow Broker. So she sits behind her desk (until the Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC) and surfs the internets. I hated that she wouldn't join you at all.

And yes, the DLC did help out a little. And that was a pretty long DLC at that. Well worth the points I spent to get it. So it did help me not hate her as much, but I was still bitter about her not wanting to aid Shepard save the galaxy again.

agentnone

2011-11-17, 04:35 AM

Oh, and Udina. I loathe Udina. Such a pompous asshat. I mean, the character is great, don't get me wrong. They made him to hate him. So yeah, I hate him too.

Acanous

2011-11-17, 05:04 AM

ugh. Udina. I hate what they DID with him in 2.

In ME1, I got the impression that Udina was:
1: Out to serve the best intrests of Humanity
2: Very good at his job
3: Kind of a ****, but mostly because Shepard was coming across as a (Loose cannon/Media Boy Scout) who had no idea about the political repricussions of his actions.

In short, Udina seemed like a damn fine politician, who would be a good choice for leading humanity through the political quagmire that was the Council.

Especially since he didn't have any direct military ties. That gives him plausable deniability for anything you pull as a SPECTRE. (As with Anderson, the council would always be wondering if you were pulling stunts to put Earth in a better military position. With Udina, they'd think you were trying to get Humanity better Political leverage, and that's kind of what they WANT)

So really, Udina seemed to me like a very Paragon choice, with Anderson being more Renegade-ee. (Personal friend. Military contacts. Not a negotiator, and doesn't want the job, but would put YOU in a better place, and it's implied it would put Earth militarilly in a better place)

In 2, Udina turns out to be a giant douche, both to you (The savior of the gorram Council, the guy who pulled the Destiny Ascension out of the fire, and did I mention the guy who GOT him this cushy job?) and to his subordinates.

While this seems very tongue in cheek true to life, with REAL politicians backstabbing their voters, I must say I am dissappoint.

Although I suppose it's one of the few times where the renegade-feeling choice gets you a better result.

Drascin

2011-11-17, 05:09 AM

agentnone

2011-11-17, 05:17 AM

*Acanous hates Udina too stuff*

I chose Anderson to be the rep for humans solely on the fact that Udina was a douche to Shepard.

The others I hate are the enitre council (except for Anderson if you chose him to be a council rep). Even after all the stuff Shepard went through in ME1, they still think he's off his rocker about the Reapers. Even though he shared every shred of evidence with the Council in the first game. And then in the second one, they just dismissed the Reaper threat saying the the Collectors are just being bullies and all that. That's ok, the Council will get the chance to look stupid come next year when ME3 comes out, and then they'll be kicking themselves in the butt for not listening to Shepard from the get go. Hopefully BioWare puts a dialog option in there for Shepard for him to flat out yell at the council: "See, I told you so. Neener-neener. Plbbbblblblbbb! Don't worry you're pretty little heads, I'll fix this mess too. Go back to playing Civilization or something. Asshats." Would be awesome to see Shepard stick his tognue out at them. Make it happen BioWare.

agentnone

2011-11-17, 05:20 AM

Personally, I never even got Zaeed in my team. I took one look at him, reloaded, and went on my merry way without him in my ship. It's enough they already forced me to have Jack, one psycho per crew is enough for me, thanks.

He's not psycho. Just misunderstood. I like having him in my group though. Not nearly as much of a badass as Garrus, but his commentary during missions and on stations is pretty good sometimes.

Cespenar

2011-11-17, 05:21 AM

Nobody. Why would I hate anyone?

Seconded. I think that several characters could have been written better, but I didn't hate any of them.

I mean, none of them is Anomen.

Comet

2011-11-17, 05:32 AM

I thought all the characters were fine. I mean, I wouldn't hang around most of them in real life or whatever, since they are admittedly broken killers and thugs, but as characters in a fictional action story I thought they worked well.

The only one I had any real problems with was Jacob, and even then only as far as playing a female Shepard goes. I mean, I can deal with him as a bland bro soldier for my male Shepard, but with FemShep I just got tired of every single dialogue choice leading to corny porn flirtation. The romance just felt badly written and forced upon the player in a way that led me to conclude that Jacob had the biotic power to spread some kind of pheromones into the air that made FemShep into a desperate mess.
Eventually I just stopped talking to him, since there were things at hand that were way more important and interesting than "getting to know my crew *wink wink nudge nudge*".

agentnone

2011-11-17, 05:45 AM

I thought all the characters were fine. I mean, I wouldn't hang around most of them in real life or whatever, since they are admittedly broken killers and thugs, but as characters in a fictional action story I thought they worked well.

Really? I'd hang out with Garrus and Tali. Garrus rocks the juke box man. Sure, he takes the law into his own hands sometimes, but at least he justifies it. He's like the Punisher. Or the Boondock Saints (though I guess that would be more like Thane with the whole prayer thing). And Tali's not broken or a thug. Just a kind hearted quarian thrown into an apocalyptic mess. Kasumi as well. I'd hang with her. She's not a killer. Just a little heartbroken at her significant other being killed. I'd definitely play Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer with them three.

Comet

2011-11-17, 05:50 AM

Avilan the Grey

2011-11-17, 05:55 AM

Really? I'd hang out with Garrus and Tali. Garrus rocks the juke box man. Sure, he takes the law into his own hands sometimes, but at least he justifies it. He's like the Punisher. Or the Boondock Saints (though I guess that would be more like Thane with the whole prayer thing). And Tali's not broken or a thug. Just a kind hearted quarian thrown into an apocalyptic mess. Kasumi as well. I'd hang with her. She's not a killer. Just a little heartbroken at her significant other being killed. I'd definitely play Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer with them three.

Kasumi is cute, sexy, fun and friendly. Definitely someone I would "hang with" IRL. Same goes for Tali.

Garrus is fun and quite pleasant. Count him in too.

Jacob... Sure, why not.
Miranda? Same there.

Grunt? Beats me; he probably won't respect me since I am not exactly a Proud Warrior Guy, but I don't see him as a bad person.

Jack? No. That said she is my favorite person in ME2 and the person I romance most often if I am a male and not faithful. She is EXTREMELY attactive even WITH the tats. Imagine how stunning she would be without them (spoiler: In ME3 she will have a mohawk). She is also very well written and has character growth.

Mordin: Definitely friend material.

Legion: Same there.

Thane: Same there, definitely.

Zaeed: Hell no.

agentnone

2011-11-17, 06:04 AM

Kasumi is cute, sexy, fun and friendly. Definitely someone I would "hang with" IRL. Same goes for Tali.

Garrus is fun and quite pleasant. Count him in too.

Jacob... Sure, why not.
Miranda? Same there.

Grunt? Beats me; he probably won't respect me since I am not exactly a Proud Warrior Guy, but I don't see him as a bad person.

Jack? No. That said she is my favorite person in ME2 and the person I romance most often if I am a male and not faithful. She is EXTREMELY attactive even WITH the tats. Imagine how stunning she would be without them (spoiler: In ME3 she will have a mohawk). She is also very well written and has character growth.

Mordin: Definitely friend material.

Legion: Same there.

Thane: Same there, definitely.

Zaeed: Hell no.

Hahaha! That's hilarious. I agree (emphasis mine).

I would probably say no to Grunt tho. I have a smart mouth most the time and he would probably turn me into a stain on the wall. I'm not much of a proud warrior spirit either. Jack I'd consider hanging with as well. She may be a bit paranoid and all that, but inside she's just a lonely individual. Most of the others would be included as well. Except for Samara. I'd be afraid to go 2 miles over the speed limit with her in the car cuz she'd turn me inside out for breaking the law.

Acanous

2011-11-17, 06:06 AM

I am not taking Jack with me to save the universe if she insists on wearing a friggin' mohawk. The tattoos and piercings were bad enough, but at least she sharpened up and started wearing SOME semblance of a uniform.

iyaerP

2011-11-17, 06:06 AM

Jack I would have shot rather than freeing form prison on account of being a crazy homicidal psychopath that I wouldn't trust with the care of a pet chicken, let alone be someone I need to depend on during the most suicidally crazy covert ops DOOM MISSION in the history of the universe.

Grunt wasn't Wrex, but can't fault him for that. Just don't love him as much.

Garrus was a boss, like always.

Tali, so cute! Even though all badass and grown up and awesome in her own right, still cute.

Miranda, while I pity her on a personal level, anybody who gets that high up in Cerberus knows what they are getting themselves into, and I have no remorse for. I would have handed her over to whatever the system's alliance version of ONI is.

Everyone else I am pretty cool with.

Wraith

2011-11-17, 06:19 AM

Jack I'd consider hanging with as well. She may be a bit paranoid and all that, but inside she's just a lonely individual.

I don't hate jack, but going by the standard of "Who would you hang out with?" I have to say that she would be at the bottom of my list - even over Zaeed.

Zaeed, at least, is sociable. Sure he's a professional murderer and very single-minded about it, but he spends the time talking to Shepherd about his exploits and even cracking a few jokes along the way. He's like that black-sheep Uncle in the family that your parents don't like very much, but when he visits for Christmas he's always happy to catch up with his favourite nephew and tell them about what he got up to 'during the war'. :smalltongue:

Jack, on the other hand, is just obnoxious. Like a stereotype of of all the bad things about angsty teenagers - okay, she had a crappy upbringing, and it made her take some bad decisions in adult life.... But for God's sake, stop telling me about how 'hard core' and 'crazy' you are, and it sounds like you're trying to hard to impress me with what are actually some very tedious, possibly exaggarated stories!

Everyone else, though.... Jacob was a little dull, but I don't hold that against him. His role in the story is to be the 'normal' human among the hired killers, alien engineers and cybernetic war heroes. He just does his job and goes home alive, if he's really lucky.

I also like both of Samara and Morinth, oddly enough. To me, they are both an example of what Shepherd could one day become, if he strays too far down either morality path - the selish, predatory sociopath or the heroic yet isolated paragon, and ultimately serve to suggest that Shepherd should probably try to avoid going too far down either road, lest he lose his humanity altogether. :smallsmile:

iyaerP

2011-11-17, 06:31 AM

Samara also gets bonus points for being a SPACE-PALADIN. Not just being good, but standing for JUSTICE and doing it well. A charachter like her or Captain America only works if they are self sacraficing, noble, pure and committed without the slightest trace of self awareness, self mockery, irony or sarcasm. And Samara can pull it off, which is why I like her.

Avilan the Grey

2011-11-17, 06:40 AM

Samara also gets bonus points for being a SPACE-PALADIN. Not just being good, but standing for JUSTICE and doing it well.

I disagree; I would never be able to be friends with her because she is Lawful Stupid. As in enough Lawful Stupid to kill innocent people to protect the innocent.

She is friendly enough, but someone who is unable to see ANY grayscale... should be locked up for life for the safety of others.

agentnone

2011-11-17, 06:45 AM

I disagree; I would never be able to be friends with her because she is Lawful Stupid. As in enough Lawful Stupid to kill innocent people to protect the innocent.

She is friendly enough, but someone who is unable to see ANY grayscale... should be locked up for life for the safety of others.

I second this. Plus, Captain America at least had a sense of humor. She does not. She works well for the role she was made for, but I wouldn't hang with her. No way. I'd be afraid to even use cheat codes in video games around her.

iyaerP

2011-11-17, 06:59 AM

I'm not saying I would like her in person or hang out with her.

I am saying that she is a well written charachter.

Avilan the Grey

2011-11-17, 07:00 AM

I'm not saying I would like her in person or hang out with her.

I am saying that she is a well written charachter.

Like Jack :smallsmile:

I second this. Plus, Captain America at least had a sense of humor. She does not. She works well for the role she was made for, but I wouldn't hang with her. No way. I'd be afraid to even use cheat codes in video games around her.

Heh. Imagine her seeing you play a member of the Dark Brotherhood in Skyrim :smalltongue:

iyaerP

2011-11-17, 07:04 AM

Yeah, but the difference being Samara I would just watch my tongue and step carefully around.

Jack I would drop a predator drone strike on from half a planet away.

agentnone

2011-11-17, 07:18 AM

Heh. Imagine her seeing you play a member of the Dark Brotherhood in Skyrim :smalltongue:

I'd try like hell to explain to her that it's just harmless fun and that's it's better to wage needless violence on virtual characters rather than doing it for real. Doubt it would matter though. Lawful Stupid has tunnel vision about that sort of thing. Evil is evil, whether it's in a video game or not. Yeah, I'd be dead.

Acanous

2011-11-17, 08:23 AM

"It's a simulated physical security program. I'm using it to determine how bad guys are able to bypass standard protocols so that I can tighten security measures and create better deterrants."

bluff +20.

The Succubus

2011-11-17, 08:33 AM

I was so glad when the Shadowbroker DLC came out and my FemShep was able to continue her romance with Liara. None of the other crew even remotely appealled. :smallredface:

Starsign

2011-11-17, 09:03 AM

Well to answer the question of the first post, I always have at least one gripe with usually every character in a video game; usually minor unless it's someone I really hate :smalltongue: But I'll keep it short for most of the ones I'll mention here (which aren't many).

Miranda:
Aside from being the obvious token fanservice, I wasn't too fond of her smug attitude either early on. She does however open up nicely after her loyalty mission and she's a favorite of mine (aka, always used on missions for being excellent in combat).

Jacob:
My main issue with Jacob is his discrimination to assassins (he mentions this after recruiting Thane), which very much seems out of nowhere, especially with ones such as Jack and Grunt. However I did enjoy his character (he needs more development though) and for how I played on Insanity, he was a valuable necessity for many areas of the game and pretty much one of the three characters I bothered using a lot on Insanity (alongside Miranda and see below)

Grunt:
Biggest issue is simple and not Grunt's fault at all, he kinda feels like a watered down Wrex with the lack of biotics and in part due to the updated class system. I think being voiced by Steve Blum was another "issue". Steve Blum is a really awesome guy, but whenever I hear him I keep thinking about Cowboy Bebop, and I hate that show for it's bad finale! (among other problems I won't state here) Grunt was however my third character I used most of the time on Insanity (replaced Jacob as soon as Miranda got Slam, biotic combos ftw! :smalltongue:)

Samara:
Here's the one I wanted to talk about. I have loads of issues with Samara and Morinth that make me hate them both. Firstly Samara feels rather... Difficult due to the nature of the Asari Justicars, she is a very, very lawful person and really doesn't show a lot, if any, emotion. She doesn't feel as dynamic as a number of other squad members. And I don't find her useful in combat either. Her assault rifle is awesome, but her power selection is a bit mediocre for the higher difficulties, and she doesn't really get the job done as well as other AR users like Thane and Zaeed.

Morinth is even worse. First of all, WHY can you recruit her? It is firmly and obviously a dumb idea, even for a Renegade Shepard to recruit someone like her, which it would be more in-character for Shepard to just shoot her instead. Secondly she has a god complex, which I despise in entertainment and here it doesn't really feel that fleshed out enough. And thirdly she is hands-down the worst squad member in the game, having no defense-destroying assisting moves that everyone else gets at least one (barring Legion, but he has Combat Drone which helps fiddle with enemy AI of almost any kind).

Whew, okay that's about all I'd want to say at this time.

Dienekes

2011-11-17, 09:27 AM

I'll give it a go.
Garrus: Who wouldn't like space Batman? Yeah cool guy, takes calibrations a bit seriously though.

Grunt: Meh. As has been said before, he isn't Wrex and that's a problem. Also considering he greets people by charging them into walls I would most definitely not wish to have him as a friend. I don't carry guns on me often enough for that. Overall, while some of his dialogue is funny, that's about the only redeeming feature for him.

Jacob: Dude's a bit dull in the game. But I get the feeling that most of that is professionalism. When he finally does come out of his shell he seems like a nice enough bloke, talking to Shep about getting drinks and whatnot. Admittedly this is only 2 lines of dialogue, personally I wish they showed more of him besides "professional" more often. As such I think he had one of the weakest writings in the game.

Jack: Yes she's had a terrible life, and for that I pity her. However she was the one who committed murder countless times. Call me an unforgiving sort but you have to pay for that. Also I lack Shepard's ability to get people to like/respect me. So no, I don't think she's be good in any way to hang out with. She'd probably knock me down with her biotics and steal my wallet.

Legion: We could play video games together, and it would be awesome.

Miranda: She comes off as stuck up when you meet her and must slowly peel away her hard exterior to get at the decent side of the character. In a game that works rather well to change your opinions on a character. In real life I would never have gotten to that point, hell one conversation with her would rub me the wrong way and that would be it.

Mordin: I am taking this man to karaoke.

Morinth: Some people call Jack spiteful, childish, an example of angsty teenagerdom. When really I think it best is applied to Morinth. I loath this character. She had the option of living a life where she would harm no one and instead decided to go out on a murderous rampage, all the time acting like one of the most eye rollingly annoying people I have ever met. Bullet. Head. Now.

Samara: Decently well written, I respect her dedication immensely, but hate the way it manifests. Maybe on a pure Asari world her code could actually work, as I'm assuming the cops would not arrest her on such a world. But in a larger galaxy she is a rather outdated concept that will cause problems. Overall I enjoyed her writing so that's all I can really say on the character.

Tali: I'm weird. I tend to be completely apathetic toward things most people find "cute" or "adorable." This holds true to Tali. She's nice enough, I think I'd enjoy talking to her, but that's about it. Also her mission and story is interesting without being something to overly angst over which I respect as a good character arc.

Thane: I think his philosophy is incredibly stupid and is a way to rationalize terrible acts just so he doesn't feel rightfully guilty over his actions. That said it is an interesting view and overall I think the character is well done.

ShinyRocks

2011-11-17, 09:38 AM

I really hope that we get to see Tali's face in ME3, and it turns out that she's a hideous mess of fangs and horns and scales.

I don't really hate any of them. Jacob's the closest but even that's more apathy. He's no good to me in combat and of very little interest outside of it.

The greatest character in the entire franchise is, of course, Doctor Chakwas.

Tengu_temp

2011-11-17, 10:05 AM

I really hope that we get to see Tali's face in ME3, and it turns out that she's a hideous mess of fangs and horns and scales.

Here's my bet. (http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/41751-talis-face)

Forbiddenwar

2011-11-17, 12:01 PM

Who I hated in MA2?

I absolutely detested the Writers.
Yep, I think that covers it.

I played 15 hours of the game, I finally completed my first mission (recruit these three people for your team) and got my second mission (recruit these seven people for your team).
I just couldn't play after that. Collecting 30 characters like dolls, for a four person team is just not my game. It killed ChronoCross for me. Shame that's all Mass Effect 2 appeared to be.

/vent.

GungHo

2011-11-17, 12:14 PM

Jacob is a dork because all Bioware's "dudes made to appeal to women" are dorks. The only one who hasn't been was Alistair. Other than that... /em making the gag me with my finger gesture

Jack is decent once you got to know her, but on the surface, she's laughable the same way some little mall rat with infected safety pin piercings trying to harass her customers at the Marble Slab is laughable. Tell me more about your darkness, Azraelle Abyss, Princess of Sorrows. And, no, I don't want sprinkles.

Yora

2011-11-17, 12:35 PM

Miranda is a character i always loved to hate. From the very beginning, I knew that she was the person who was holding my leash in one hand, and in the other hand the gun to remove me once Cerberus is done with me.

Zaeed I never recruited. I spoke to him once, and then restarted the level to never talk to him again. I don't want him on my ship.

Jacob is boring. He is a good kid, but completely irellevant.

Jack is suprisingly okay, but if I had have a choice, I would have refused to taker her with me.

I never wanted the Krogan, but I always end up with the pod in storage.

Samara is completely unlikeable and a psycho. If the game wouldn't force me too, I wouldn't have her on the ship.

Oh yeah, Garrus and Tali are awesome, I agree. Garrus is a bit intimidating and Tali has some emotional issues that could really drag a party down, but they're definitely among the most likeable of the bunch. Along with Mordin.
Those two have been my favorite team since I played ME for the first time. And given how popular they are, I'm sure I still can have them in ME3.

When I make an exception, I usually take Mordin along. :smallbiggrin:

tensai_oni

2011-11-17, 12:36 PM

I just couldn't play after that. Collecting 30 characters like dolls, for a four person team is just not my game. It killed ChronoCross for me. Shame that's all Mass Effect 2 appeared to be.

/vent.

I'm sorry, what? Mass Effect 2 doesn't have 30 party members. It has 13 - 2 of whom are DLC, and also 2 are mutually exclusive to each other. So in a normal gameplay you get 10. That's not too bad.

Yora

2011-11-17, 12:45 PM

Also, many of the recruitment missions are really cool. Mordin, Garrus, Thane, and Tali are all some of my favorite levels.

Cespenar

2011-11-17, 12:49 PM

Yeah, Garrus' re-recruitment in ME2 was one of the strong points of the game.

Destro_Yersul

2011-11-17, 01:39 PM

Here's my bet. (http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/41751-talis-face)

I liked this one. (http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/41815-talis-face) Laughed for five minutes straight first time I saw it.

I liked most of the ME2 characters. Jacob and Miranda weren't particularly interesting to me, which seems to be the trend with ME. The standard human squadmates usually kinda suck. Jack was complex, at least, once you got past the wall she had around her.

Zaeed I found really interesting. Not the sort of person I'd hang out with, and he's got this massive chip on his shoulder, but he was fun to talk to. I got the feeling that he ended up really respecting Shepard, even if he didn't agree with Shepard's decisions sometimes.

Garrus is my favourite. He's basically awesome. Legion comes in at a close second.

Yora

2011-11-17, 02:10 PM

Ashley and... and... Damn. That other human party member whose name I can't even remember. They were both very boring.

But when I had the choice which one to kill, I knew instantly that it would be the other guy.

It's not so bad with the aliens. They are not jsut "Generic Krogan", "Generic Salarin", or "Generic Quarian". They all have an interesting individuality and stand out from the crowd of their species. But the humans just don't. They are "human soldier woman", "human man", and "human black man".

stainboy

2011-11-17, 02:26 PM

I didn't like how Jack was supposed to be a biotic prodigy but she wasn't actually good at anything. Her primary weapon is a shotgun, which for squadmate mortality ranks slightly above a vest full of dynamite. Unlike Grunt she doesn't have a defense power or special melee AI to get away with fighting up close, never mind that during cutscenes she can punch through a heavy mech. One of her powers is wasted on Shockwave so she has two redundant CCs and no way to crack defenses. Jacob, Samara, and Liara all feel like stronger biotics than Jack.

Vknight

2011-11-17, 02:47 PM

I've got to say I'm not surprised the game doesn't allow you to support the guy keeping his female crew as drugged up sex slaves. But maybe that's just me...

Yeah I can see why but I'd love the option to just be that spiteful. Its the matter of leaving a man in a place were he has everything but a person to talk to I wanted to leave him a broken shell as the people died or revolted against him until the sole humanoid upon the planets surface was himself.
That or turn the place into a island resort were you leave people in the jungle with no food for 2weeks the go get them.

I'm a bad person... But evil just has such a potent taste and in a video game I want the ability to be as cruel as possible or loving as possible.
I can never let anyone die in the suicide mission even though I have my problems with them. I try and do side quests and upgrade the gear of my companions then Shepard. Heck I'll spend 3hours trying to kill the Brotherhood of Steel without getting Veronica to abandon me.
I guess it just depends on the options available etc

Joran

2011-11-17, 03:24 PM

I was so glad when the Shadowbroker DLC came out and my FemShep was able to continue her romance with Liara. None of the other crew even remotely appealled. :smallredface:

I agree, as a Fem!Shep, I was disappointed in the quality of the romanceable characters. I'm glad I romanced Liara in Mass Effect 1 because that made Lair of the Shadow Broker resonate that much more.

Jacob is a dork because all Bioware's "dudes made to appeal to women" are dorks. The only one who hasn't been was Alistair. Other than that... /em making the gag me with my finger gesture

Alistar is a dork too.

I hear him I keep thinking about Cowboy Bebop, and I hate that show for it's bad finale! (among other problems I won't state here)

WOAH, someone disliked the end of Cowboy Bebop? Defend yourself heathen!

Marnath

2011-11-17, 03:41 PM

Squark

2011-11-17, 03:51 PM

My problem with Jacob isn't that he's boring, because I like that at least one person on board the Normandy wasn't a total nutjob. No, my problem with him is how he treated Tali and Thane.

Like when he got all up in Thane's business and let him know he hates assassins- ok 1) you're a damn terrorist, right? STFU and 2) This is my ship, my debriefing and who told you you could be in here, Jacob?

With Tali it was better right up to the end. They were both sort of rude to each other but that happens when your people have had conflict. The part that bothered me was that whole "Make sure to introduce yourself to E.D.I." thing. WTF, Jacob? Time to send you to sensitivity training. I was personally expecting to give her time to settle in before dropping that on her especially given her views on A.I. and the fact that they just killed all her friends.

1) Jacob doesn't see himself as a terrorist. He's working for an organization that has a terrorist component, but he never worked with that element (Reviving Shepherd isn't illegal, which is pretty much all he's done while working for Cerberus directly). I thought that it was perfectly in character for a career soldier who left the military due to frustration with the politics of the job to dislike an assassin (often a tool of said politicians). And yes, he's in your debriefing. He is, for lack of a better term, third in the chain of command on the Normandy, and he doesn't rub most people (in-universe) the wrong way the way Ms. Perfectionist does.
2) He says that without a trace of malice, which to me indicates he just stuck his foot in his mouth (and then proceeded to swallow it). People make mistakes, and, frankly, I don't know of a way to break the news about EDI to Tali that isn't tactless.

Starsign

2011-11-17, 04:00 PM

1) Jacob doesn't see himself as a terrorist. He's working for an organization that has a terrorist component, but he never worked with that element (Reviving Shepherd isn't illegal, which is pretty much all he's done while working for Cerberus directly). I thought that it was perfectly in character for a career soldier who left the military due to frustration with the politics of the job to dislike an assassin (often a tool of said politicians). And yes, he's in your debriefing. He is, for lack of a better term, third in the chain of command on the Normandy, and he doesn't rub most people (in-universe) the wrong way the way Ms. Perfectionist does.
2) He says that without a trace of malice, which to me indicates he just stuck his foot in his mouth (and then proceeded to swallow it). People make mistakes, and, frankly, I don't know of a way to break the news about EDI to Tali that isn't tactless.
I perfectly agree on the latter about Tali (really, how else do you put it to her about EDI?), but the part about Thane still bothers me slightly. It still seems a bit weird for him to comment flat out to Thane yet not comment about Jack or Grunt; though then again, that would likely be because those two are more... Aggressive, to say the least, than Thane. So it might not seem as weird, but I still find it a bit out of place. :smallconfused:

Psyren

2011-11-17, 05:27 PM

I couldn't stand both Jacob and Jack, because they assume FemShep is putting the moves on them just for trying to be friendly, and the only way to not come off that way is just not to talk to them. If it was every possible love interest then I would chalk it up to a game flaw, but those two are just unlikeable as written if you're not attracted to them.

Garrus' endless calibrations aside - Tali, Thane and Miranda all are fine with just being friends with Shep and having non-romantic things to say. I was particularly impressed with Miranda's conversation options, because I could win her trust and really feel like she was my second-in-command without dragging her to the mat or shooting her down in any way.

As for Jacob's strangely hostile attitude towards Thane, it's actually a relic - back in development, they had a "rivalry crisis" for every pair of squadmates, like the ones they had for Miranda v. Jack and Tali v. Legion. They were supposed to have one for Mordin v. Grunt and Jacob v. Thane, but they (rightfully) decided it didn't make sense for every pair to have a deal-breaking grudge like that. But they didn't remove all traces of it; there is even hidden audio left over on the disc for the Grunt v. Mordin encounter.

Yora

2011-11-17, 05:47 PM

Marnath

2011-11-17, 05:58 PM

I like Thane a lot. When you talk to him, it all doesn't seem forced and at least with FemShep the voice acting supports that very well.

In ME, I have no idea where Liara got the impression that she was my girlfriend. Where did that come from and why was there no way to back out?

There was.:smallconfused:
First, she mentions her interest in you and that she wasn't sure if it'd be appropriate to mention it since she thought maybe you and Ashley/Kaiden already had a thing going. Next she asks if there's anything between the two of you, or if she imagined that too. You can tell her you just want to be friends. she actually takes it pretty well, blaming it on her inexperience with humans. I don't remember, she might even apologize for making the assumption.

Squark

2011-11-17, 06:06 PM

I couldn't stand both Jacob and Jack, because they assume FemShep is putting the moves on them just for trying to be friendly, and the only way to not come off that way is just not to talk to them. If it was every possible love interest then I would chalk it up to a game flaw, but those two are just unlikeable as written if you're not attracted to them.

Garrus' endless calibrations aside - Tali, Thane and Miranda all are fine with just being friends with Shep and having non-romantic things to say. I was particularly impressed with Miranda's conversation options, because I could win her trust and really feel like she was my second-in-command without dragging her to the mat or shooting her down in any way.

Hmm... I never had that problem with Jacob, and Jack... To be honest, I think that make sense; Jack has only had someone take interest in her as a person once before; Since she's not quite sure what to make of Shepherd's interest in her, she wonders if he's trying to get into her pants (which, from her perspective, is the only basis she has for a man showing that much interest in her. She's just not used to someone who like Shepherd, who talks to every single member of the crew).

Psyren

2011-11-17, 06:12 PM

Hmm... I never had that problem with Jacob, and Jack... To be honest, I think that make sense; Jack has only had someone take interest in her as a person once before; Since she's not quite sure what to make of Shepherd's interest in her, she wonders if he's trying to get into her pants (which, from her perspective, is the only basis she has for a man showing that much interest in her. She's just not used to someone who like Shepherd, who talks to every single member of the crew).

I specifically said FemShep:

1) Go to see her too often, and Jack tells you she's not into "girl's club." From that moment all conversation is impossible.

2) Jacob acts completely oily around her. And to top it off, after his loyalty, he offhandedly mentions that Miranda needs a better man than he is. But you! You're just right, he has a shot with you.

There was.:smallconfused:
First, she mentions her interest in you and that she wasn't sure if it'd be appropriate to mention it since she thought maybe you and Ashley/Kaiden already had a thing going. Next she asks if there's anything between the two of you, or if she imagined that too. You can tell her you just want to be friends. she actually takes it pretty well, blaming it on her inexperience with humans. I don't remember, she might even apologize for making the assumption.

She basically becomes mortified, though she hides it well. She obviously doesn't have a whole lot to say to you after that though.

Squark

2011-11-17, 06:31 PM

I specifically said FemShep:

1) Go to see her too often, and Jack tells you she's not into "girl's club." From that moment all conversation is impossible.

2) Jacob acts completely oily around her. And to top it off, after his loyalty, he offhandedly mentions that Miranda needs a better man than he is. But you! You're just right, he has a shot with you.

To be honest, their dialogue didn't seem that different from Manshep to femshep. I could have sworn Jacob makes the same comment about Miranda needing a better man than he is to Manshep as well. And frankly, the fact that Shepherd is a woman doesn't change the fact that Jack has no other reference for why femshep would be coming down to talk to her so often.

Psyren

2011-11-17, 06:37 PM

To be honest, their dialogue didn't seem that different from Manshep to femshep. I could have sworn Jacob makes the same comment about Miranda needing a better man than he is to Manshep as well.

Exactly. It's lazy writing. You say that to your boy to let him know "you're the better man, maybe you'll succeed where I failed." You don't say that to the girl you're settling for because the girl you really wanted was too much of a tamale for you.

And frankly, the fact that Shepherd is a woman doesn't change the fact that Jack has no other reference for why femshep would be coming down to talk to her so often.

Don't have a problem with that. What I do have a problem with is being given no option to say "it's not like that, I just want to be friends". Also, being told to f*** off or that I'm p****ing around in my own ship for being nice is a great way to get intimate with the airlock, superbiotic or no superbiotic.

Squark

2011-11-17, 07:28 PM

Exactly. It's lazy writing. You say that to your boy to let him know "you're the better man, maybe you'll succeed where I failed." You don't say that to the girl you're settling for because the girl you really wanted was too much of a tamale for you.

Don't have a problem with that. What I do have a problem with is being given no option to say "it's not like that, I just want to be friends". Also, being told to f*** off or that I'm p****ing around in my own ship for being nice is a great way to get intimate with the airlock, superbiotic or no superbiotic.

More like lazy voice acting, but I'll concede the point. And, to be fair, Jack shoots Femshep down before femshep has a chance to say such a thing, and then Jack indicates that she doesn't want to talk anymore.

iyaerP

2011-11-17, 07:44 PM

To be fair, I had MORDIN ask if the reason I came to talk with him so much was because I was trying to romance him. First, it made me laugh a great deal. Secondly, I was like: "After you did that song, I was eager to discover what other conversational gems Bioware had writen."

Third was that he is right near the upgrades station. So talking to him randomly is easier than trekking through 3 levels of the ship to go chat up grunt or something.

chiasaur11

2011-11-17, 08:19 PM

Avilan the Grey

2011-11-17, 11:23 PM

That's only if you aren't doing the nasty with anyone else.

Otherwise, he gives specific tips. Which makes sense, since Mordin's writer did most of the romances in the game.

So don't... ingest. :smalltongue:

About Jack and fem!Shep... what? I have never felt any sexual tension between the two. Besides, Jack tells you very early that she doesn't play for that team anyway.

agentnone

2011-11-18, 12:36 AM

So after reading all this, would it be safe to assume that Garrus and Tali are not, nor will they ever be, in the category of hate-able characters? I for one think so.

It also seems people don't really like Jacob too much. lol Which makes sense. All the human squadmates were sort of cookie cutter generic. Though Miranda did at least have layers....like an onion.

My question is tho, am I the only one that hates Liara in ME2? I won't go into re-explanation as it's here in this thread somewhere. If that's the case, I'm not sure if I should feel like I'm clever or just an idiot.

MCerberus

2011-11-18, 12:40 AM

It also seems people don't really like Jacob too much. lol Which makes sense. All the human squadmates were sort of cookie cutter generic. Though Miranda did at least have layers....like an ogre, tee hee references.

My question is tho, am I the only one that hates Liara in ME2? I won't go into re-explanation as it's here in this thread somewhere. If that's the case, I'm not sure if I should feel like I'm clever or just an idiot.

guess I'll spoiler:
Liara isn't Liara, just an NPC we're told goes by the name of a ME1 squad member and you've apparently met.

Seriously, what's up with her?

iyaerP

2011-11-18, 12:41 AM

I dislike that she takes DLC to get, as I never grabbed said DLC, but I didn't hate her, no.

Why does she do something monumentally stupid?

Psyren

2011-11-18, 12:57 AM

So after reading all this, would it be safe to assume that Garrus and Tali are not, nor will they ever be, in the category of hate-able characters? I for one think so.

Nobody hates Tali, but plenty of people hate her fans.

I've yet to meet someone that hates Garrus. When the worst criticism a character has is "I wish he'd talk more," I guess that's a good sign.

chiasaur11

2011-11-18, 01:12 AM

Nobody hates Tali, but plenty of people hate her fans.

I've yet to meet someone that hates Garrus. When the worst criticism a character has is "I wish he'd talk more," I guess that's a good sign.

I have.

But the fellow was also a Cerberus supporter, and he liked Kaiden. Not to be trusted.

MCerberus

2011-11-18, 01:14 AM

Nobody hates Tali, but plenty of people hate her fans.

I've yet to meet someone that hates Garrus. When the worst criticism a character has is "I wish he'd talk more," I guess that's a good sign.

It's impossible to hate Tali.
http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/photos/images/original/000/158/786/taliepie.png?1318992465
couldn't resist >.>

Avilan the Grey

2011-11-18, 01:15 AM

I dislike that she takes DLC to get, as I never grabbed said DLC, but I didn't hate her, no.

Why does she do something monumentally stupid?

First of all.. why on earth wouldn't you get that DLC? Seriously? It's dirt cheap and great.

Second... she doesn't do any stupid things in ME2.

My question is tho, am I the only one that hates Liara in ME2? I won't go into re-explanation as it's here in this thread somewhere. If that's the case, I'm not sure if I should feel like I'm clever or just an idiot.

guess I'll spoiler:
Liara isn't Liara, just an NPC we're told goes by the name of a ME1 squad member and you've apparently met.

Seriously, what's up with her?

I guess you are not the only one, seeing this response to your question but... why? Not only is her reasons to do what she is doing sound and well written, her personality has not changed much since ME1, and what has can be chalked down to loosing one of her absolutely closest friends or her lover.

In fact I am not entirely sure what MCerberus is talking about in the response.

Landis963

2011-11-18, 01:17 AM

So after reading all this, would it be safe to assume that Garrus and Tali are not, nor will they ever be, in the category of hate-able characters? I for one think so.

Yes.

It also seems people don't really like Jacob too much. lol Which makes sense. All the human squadmates were sort of cookie cutter generic. Though Miranda did at least have layers....like an onion.

I liked Jacob, but only because he was Kaidan-level sympathetic without being Kaidan-level boring. However, he was too static a character for his own good. The difference between Miranda and an onion is that her layers don't make you cry when they're peeled away.

My question is tho, am I the only one that hates Liara in ME2? I won't go into re-explanation as it's here in this thread somewhere. If that's the case, I'm not sure if I should feel like I'm clever or just an idiot.

Probably not, I remember being annoyed with her lack of content and cold demeanor, but never to the point of hating her, for example, but she gets much better after (and because of) the LotSB DLC.

Avilan the Grey

2011-11-18, 01:19 AM

Psyren

2011-11-18, 01:50 AM

Lack of content I give you, but cold demeanor? Did you talk to her?

She is a tad brusque when she doesn't want to come with you on Ilium. Perfectly understandable given her friend's status, but also a bit rough on Shep (for whom almost no time has passed since the Normandy 1 went kaput.)

I agree that she didn't do anything stupid, at least nothing that I saw.

Landis963

2011-11-18, 02:02 AM

Lack of content I give you, but cold demeanor? Did you talk to her?

Yes. All the convos before Shadow Broker (Her character reached its zenith at the end of that DLC, for reasons that probably should be obvious to all who know them and spoilers for everyone else). The events of Redemption left her very angry with the Shadow Broker, and her resultant fixation on him left others out in the cold, not to mention the fact that Illium's glass and steel towers, while breathtaking as a tourist spot, don't leave much room for idealism once you leave the brightly lit areas. She does explain why she's like that, though, with a well-reasoned rationale that legitimizes it. Doesn't make it less annoying that she has to brush you off like she does, but does go a long way towards making it tragic instead of, say, rage-inducing.

agentnone

2011-11-18, 02:15 AM

It's impossible to hate Tali.
http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/photos/images/original/000/158/786/taliepie.png?1318992465
couldn't resist >.>

Yeah....that Shepard on there looks like he has "Free Candy!!" painted by hand in red paint on the side of his ship. No wonder children can't be found in the first two games. And the one you see in the ME3 trailer crawls away from Shepard in the vent.

agentnone

2011-11-18, 02:20 AM

Probably not, I remember being annoyed with her lack of content and cold demeanor, but never to the point of hating her, for example, but she gets much better after (and because of) the LotSB DLC.

I didn't so much as hate the character, as much as I hated how she wasn't available to join you (until the DLC, and even then for only the DLC) and the way they made her a cold-hearted b****. I liked her when she was the nerdy, naïve and socially awkward Liara. Don't get me wrong, she's a varifiable badass in the DLC, but her personality changed to the point that I want ME1 Liara back. lol

Landis963

2011-11-18, 04:47 AM

I didn't so much as hate the character, as much as I hated how she wasn't available to join you (until the DLC, and even then for only the DLC) and the way they made her a cold-hearted b****. I liked her when she was the nerdy, naïve and socially awkward Liara. Don't get me wrong, she's a varifiable badass in the DLC, but her personality changed to the point that I want ME1 Liara back. lol

I think the problem is that she was a complete character in ME1: adorkable, smart, likable. Then Shep died, and it destroyed her. She's still putting back the pieces when you meet her on Illium, and some of it needed to be put back wrong in order to cope with her new environment: Liara's cute and all in ME1, but her ME1 self wouldn't last a day in Illium. In short, she was incomplete in ME2 where she wasn't in ME1, and the sudden change grated on most, as it was probably meant to. LotSB was all about putting the pieces of herself right and incorporating the things she's learned since then back into a cohesive whole. This involves both badassery and being able to use both her past and her present to good use, and in this way she comes into her own.

Does that make any sense?

EDIT: Oh yeah, and the fact that she doesn't join you is still annoying. Forgot I didn't actually answer your question there.

Acanous

2011-11-18, 05:02 AM

Y'know, on further retrospection, I've realised I like Jacob because he reminds me of one of my RP buddies XD

"Oh, so you're saying we need to chase down a multidimensional alien that's working for demons through a church who'se guardian angel hates you?

...Welp, I'm suited up. Let's go."

SlyGuyMcFly

2011-11-18, 05:14 AM

I guess one person's character development is another person's character derailment. I liked what they did with the four non-human ME squaddies in terms of character development (but I never played ME2 sans-LotSB).

As for the more controversial new squaddies, I did somewhat dislikde Miranda at first, but she kinda grew on me over time. I still think she's a bit of a whiny [redacted] but she's no Kaidan. She's no where near as good as Ash though.
Jacob I like. Dude's a bro. He's just too ordinary compared to the other characters to stand out in any way. Like someone upthread mentioned, he's Kaidan, only done right.
Jack... eh. Sometimes I wanted to slap her a tell her to get over it already. Other times I'd find myself thinking her prickly nature is understandable. She's... hard to be around, but overall I can't say I disliked her all that much.

In all honesty the only thing that I really hated about ME2 was the events leading up to the Collectors' attack the Normandy. That was just... ugh.

Landis963

2011-11-18, 05:34 AM

In all honesty the only thing that I really hated about ME2 was the events leading up to the Collectors' attack the Normandy. That was just... ugh.

I KNOW. :smallfurious: This made me rage SO MUCH. There is no reason, none, to take everyone with you to some farflung mission where only two squaddies will be used anyway. There is no reason, none, not to relocate to some place where people will notice the giant beehive starship. There is no reason, none, that if you are already in such a star system, that people will not notice and at least try and investigate, especially if they have proximity sensors or something alerting them to any incoming vessels. There is no reason, none, that all the crew members had to die - Why didn't they barricade themselves in, for example, the comm room or the main battery, or the engineering bay, or, hell, Shepard's apartment? If those rooms are unaffected by the vacuum of space, then they should have been fine after EDI did the rapid evac jump thing.

agentnone

2011-11-18, 06:32 AM

I KNOW. :smallfurious: This made me rage SO MUCH. There is no reason, none, to take everyone with you to some farflung mission where only two squaddies will be used anyway. There is no reason, none, not to relocate to some place where people will notice the giant beehive starship. There is no reason, none, that if you are already in such a star system, that people will not notice and at least try and investigate, especially if they have proximity sensors or something alerting them to any incoming vessels. There is no reason, none, that all the crew members had to die - Why didn't they barricade themselves in, for example, the comm room or the main battery, or the engineering bay, or, hell, Shepard's apartment? If those rooms are unaffected by the vacuum of space, then they should have been fine after EDI did the rapid evac jump thing.

Yeah, but you got to hobble around as Joker...and hear him and EDI banter back and forth a little. I didn't really like the idea of everyone leaving the Normandy to allow it to happen, but I had a blast going through it. I was just mad that Chakwas got nabbed. She rocks. That tough old bird will definitely make it through ME3.

SlyGuyMcFly

2011-11-18, 07:09 AM

Yeah, but you got to hobble around as Joker...and hear him and EDI banter back and forth a little. I didn't really like the idea of everyone leaving the Normandy to allow it to happen, but I had a blast going through it. I was just mad that Chakwas got nabbed. She rocks. That tough old bird will definitely make it through ME3.

Absolutely. The actual attack was awesome to play through and the fact that they nabbed Chakwas made it really personal (I did not care for anyone else :smalltongue:). In that sense it was a good call on the writer's part. It's the idiocy they came up with to justify the attack that was exceedingly poorly thought out.

Avilan the Grey

2011-11-18, 07:37 AM

Absolutely. The actual attack was awesome to play through and the fact that they nabbed Chakwas made it really personal (I did not care for anyone else :smalltongue:). In that sense it was a good call on the writer's part. It's the idiocy they came up with to justify the attack that was exceedingly poorly thought out.

Hey, nobody touches Kelly and lives. Except me, of course. And Liara (I am sure Kelly wouldn't mind...). Ahem...

LordShotGun

2011-11-18, 07:43 AM

Why do we need a separate thread for this?

ryu

2011-11-18, 09:05 AM

Came up as the offshoot of a thread derailment. Probably won't last long either.

Psyren

2011-11-18, 09:34 AM

There is no reason, none, that all the crew members had to die

Um, they don't die - unless Shep runs around with his/her thumb up his/her *** instead of going to save them. :smallconfused: Even if you don't go right away, you can still save half of them unless you're really taking your sweet time.

Even the one guy that gets sent flying by a Scion ("Don't worry Joker, I'll protect you!") can survive - Chakwas mentions his pride being the most damaged part of him.

GungHo

2011-11-18, 11:13 AM

Alistar is a dork too.
Perhaps, but he was also self-aware of his dorkiness. Unlike, say Carth.

2) Jacob acts completely oily around her. And to top it off, after his loyalty, he offhandedly mentions that Miranda needs a better man than he is. But you! You're just right, he has a shot with you.
If I were a chick, that'd win my heart.

About Jack and fem!Shep... what? I have never felt any sexual tension between the two. Besides, Jack tells you very early that she doesn't play for that team anyway.
What? She makes very specific reference to having both boyfriends and girlfriends in her past. Granted, I never tried to pursue her as either male or female (though she only accused me of trying to get into her pants as male), so it could be "I was crazy in college", but the wording above is a surprise.

Squark

2011-11-18, 11:18 AM

What? She makes very specific reference to having both boyfriends and girlfriends in her past. Granted, I never tried to pursue her as either male or female (though she only accused me of trying to get into her pants as male), so it could be "I was crazy in college", but the wording above is a surprise.

There's only one mention, and that was a somewhat abusive relationship with a guy and his girlfriend.

Psyren

2011-11-18, 11:46 AM

If I were a chick, that'd win my heart.

Knowing that you are quite literally Plan B? How romantic.

chiasaur11

2011-11-18, 02:06 PM

Hey, nobody touches Kelly and lives. Except me, of course. And Liara (I am sure Kelly wouldn't mind...). Ahem...

And Thane. And half the random crewmen on the ship. Most of the Citadel.

Urz.

I mainly wanted to save Ken and Gabby. Good folks. Bad at Skyllian 5. Fun banter.

Also, I really didn't like ME1 Liara. Transparent nerdbait. Boring to boot. ME2 Liara was a bit of a random turnaround, I'll admit, but Shadow Broker? She was finally a good character! It was amazing.

Avilan the Grey

2011-11-18, 02:06 PM

What? She makes very specific reference to having both boyfriends and girlfriends in her past. Granted, I never tried to pursue her as either male or female (though she only accused me of trying to get into her pants as male), so it could be "I was crazy in college", but the wording above is a surprise.

No, she says she was together with two other criminals who took advantage of her, and she snapped and killed them both. If you talk to her ANY more at all, you quickly find out that she "doesn't play for that team".

Zevox

2011-11-18, 02:53 PM

No, she says she was together with two other criminals who took advantage of her, and she snapped and killed them both. If you talk to her ANY more at all, you quickly find out that she "doesn't play for that team".
I'm beginning to think people are interpreting what she says differently in that regard - I recall trying to speak with her further as FemShep resulting in a dismissal, but I don't recall her implying anything about her sexual orientation in that dismissal. Lemme see if I can find a video of it on youtube...

Hm, no luck - at least not without going through full Let's Plays to find it. Guess I'll get my own game out, I'm pretty sure one of my FemShep saves has a pre-suicide-mission save I could load...

Hm, all she says is "Shepard, we talked enough. You're just pissing around. No hard feelings, but I don't wanna play." Doesn't seem like anything but a "I'm done chit-chatting" to me.

Zevox

Querzis

2011-11-19, 08:21 AM

...well really, the only character I hated in ME2 was Udina. I also kinda hated Kaidan in the first one. If you're only talking about only your teamates, then it would be Jack I dislike the most but still not hate.

Anyway, I feel like I have to take the defense of some characters here: Jacob. Jacob is not boring. But Jacob is a perfectly normal human being in a crew of some of the weirdest people in the galaxy. So of course he come off as kinda tame compared to the others but he crack up jokes, hes professional and hes nice really. Kaidan now that guy was boring despite being much less normal then Jacob.

Samara. I hate her code sometimes but I dont hate her. She has taken those vows because she felt like she really had to take responsability for her daughter. But she actually seems to realize that those vows are stupid and outdated sometimes. In other words, in this case, I hate the law but not the policewoman.

Grunt. People seems to forget something pretty damn important about Grunt. The first time you meet him, hes litterally 1 second old! Hes not just a child, hes a newborn, the fact that he can talk and had knowledge implanted in him by Okeer doesnt change that. The knowledge he had was to make him «the perfect Krogan» so of course at first hes as stereotypical as it can get but he can actually become something more then that if Shepard hang around with him a lot. Start thinking of it as a Father/son relationship between him and Shepard because for all intent and purpose, thats what it is! If you did things right with him, Grunt is always trying to earn the respect and acknowledgement of Shepard like a young kid with his dad while Shepard make him discover the world and teach him the difference between right and wrong.

Miranda. She might be cold but Miranda is actually pretty damn selfless when you get down to it. Pretty much everything she does is for other people and, if you take the time to talk to her, you'd realize the she actually has a very low opinion of herself. She put herself and everyone else to impossibly high standard, shes bitchy not because she think shes better then you, she put herself to the same standard as you. And, since she was genetically created, she think that every achievement she ever accomplish are not really her own but her father, she actually envy you. Shes also far from a stupid Cerberus dog, did anyone even see this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yxiY1vXlEQ. She really thought the Illusive Man was doing what was best for humanity. When it became obvious he was doing this for himself, she left his side in a second.

Liara. Liara in ME1 wasnt just a shy nerd, she was an hermit. Even if you dont romance her, Shepard become the most important person in her life, especially with her mother going crazy and dying earlier. So yes, in ME2 she is broken and had to become much tougher to defend herself and get back at the Shadow Broker. I wont get into spoilers here but Lair of the Shadow broker is my favorite DLC ever and I'm really glad my Shep was able to continue his romance with Liara.

Zaeed. I really get the impression that some people never went to talk to him in the normandy. Zaeed is actually very sociable and funny when outside combat. Now yes, in a fight, he become a total bastard but I still find him a very enjoyable total bastard for the most part. Also, one thing I found interesting is that some medical student in ME forum say that the bullet that didnt kill him most likely still destroyed the part of the brain that allow people to feel empathy (and if that was actually intended by the writers, then it explain a lot). So really he could be worse. Also, the guy is actually the most romantic mercenary ever. Seriously, Zaeed + Jessie forever: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9-dLzzQuVM&feature=BFa&list=FLYRqLy0dzIm-IXW7G2-q7pw&lf=mh_lolz

I wont defend Jack cause as I said, even if I dont hate her, cant say I like her much. All the others are awesome so I dont have to defend them. One last thing that annoy me though... WHY CANT YOU ROMANCE KASUMI? Sorry, Tali fan, but for me Kasumi is the cutest, shes also so funny, smart and sly. She better be a romance option in ME3, seriously.

Yora

2011-11-19, 08:55 AM

Samara is interesting, because as many Asari point out, she is acting in a very honorable and admirable way by Asari standards. But when Justiciars have to deal with aliens, it almost always ends in a massive disaster. There has been some thought put into that characters.

Unfortunately, she come off as completely full of herself and the character model just screams "I am so much better than all you vermin", which makes it really hard to relate to her. If it were just her actions and code that are difficult to deal with for the player, it wouldn't be that bad and could be quite interesting. But she seems so incredibly spoiled and patronizing at any moment, which I just can't stand.

SlyGuyMcFly

2011-11-19, 09:59 AM

Unfortunately, she come off as completely full of herself and the character model just screams "I am so much better than all you vermin", which makes it really hard to relate to her.

I thought it screamed "eyes down there", more than anything else... Which I found rather offputting. Somehow moreso than Jack's, uh, outfit.

Landis963

2011-11-19, 10:06 AM

I thought it screamed "eyes down there", more than anything else... Which I found rather offputting. Somehow moreso than Jack's, uh, outfit.

Jack's "outfit" was justified, if a little OTT, by her background and her views toward control, others, and sexuality. Samara's... isn't. Keep the red color scheme if you must, even the Gold headdress thing, but absolute cleavage screams "monastic order" not.

Avilan the Grey

2011-11-19, 10:28 AM

Jack's "outfit" was justified, if a little OTT, by her background and her views toward control, others, and sexuality. Samara's... isn't. Keep the red color scheme if you must, even the Gold headdress thing, but absolute cleavage screams "monastic order" not.

Samara's outfit IS justified since she isn't bound by human morals and aesthetics. To complain that an asari is too scantly clad is... so very 21st century human of you.

Landis963

2011-11-19, 10:40 AM

Samara's outfit IS justified since she isn't bound by human morals and aesthetics. To complain that an asari is too scantly clad is... so very 21st century human of you.

Which begs the question of why asari morals see fit to have these consistently scanty outfits for almost every occasion (see also: the multiple-bare section dresses, the ubiquitous bare midriff, the stripper outfit). Also, no fair pulling the "they're aliens, it doesn't have to make sense!" argument. Every tradition, every custom, every stereotype, of every culture has to come from something that would occur to that culture at its inception. For stereotypes, it comes from an exaggeration of some other culture, for traditions and customs it comes from some belief they had about their gods, which in turn was driven in some way by their evolution.

EDIT: Nice avvy, BTW. Is that your Skyrim character?

Avilan the Grey

2011-11-19, 10:52 AM

Which begs the question of why asari morals see fit to have these consistently scanty outfits for almost every occasion (see also: the multiple-bare section dresses, the ubiquitous bare midriff, the stripper outfit). Also, no fair pulling the "they're aliens, it doesn't have to make sense!" argument. Every tradition, every custom, every stereotype, of every culture has to come from something that would occur to that culture at its inception. For stereotypes, it comes from an exaggeration of some other culture, for traditions and customs it comes from some belief they had about their gods, which in turn was driven in some way by their evolution.

EDIT: Nice avvy, BTW. Is that your Skyrim character?

Well knowing that in the middle ages, in Europe, at least one nation had it as high fashion among noble women to if not go topless, at least bare their breasts completely in public. I THINK it was Crete, but I am not sure...

Anyway, yes it is. When I get an awesomer picture of her I will put that there instead.

Querzis

2011-11-19, 11:01 AM

Which begs the question of why asari morals see fit to have these consistently scanty outfits for almost every occasion (see also: the multiple-bare section dresses, the ubiquitous bare midriff, the stripper outfit). Also, no fair pulling the "they're aliens, it doesn't have to make sense!" argument. Every tradition, every custom, every stereotype, of every culture has to come from something that would occur to that culture at its inception. For stereotypes, it comes from an exaggeration of some other culture, for traditions and customs it comes from some belief they had about their gods, which in turn was driven in some way by their evolution.

Its the other way around, you gotta ask yourself why it became our moral to not wear revealing clothes especially since, for a very long time in our history and even now in many culture, this wasnt the case. Please remember that some aliens in Mass Effect are essentially naked. Hell, Asari could very well be nudist in their own world when they are only amongst themselves and only wears clothes cause other aliens dont see it as socially acceptable.

Avilan the Grey

2011-11-19, 11:36 AM

Please remember that some aliens in Mass Effect are essentially naked.

Case in point: Elcor only wears hats and trousers, or less.

Dienekes

2011-11-19, 11:41 AM

Honestly I'm more curious why the wandering paladin warrior lady leaves a huge open patch in her armor right where her heart and lungs would be. That's always bothered me much more than the fact that she's flaunting her bosom in an obviously pandering way.

Avilan the Grey

2011-11-19, 11:44 AM

Dienekes

2011-11-19, 11:49 AM

Because she is not wearing heavy armor?

Who said it was heavy? Dev's claim everyone (except Jack) wears armor in the game. Even Miranda's suit is supposed to flexi-light armor thing. And so that leaves us that Samara has decided to leave her upper torso exposed in battle. Kinda a dumb decision.

factotum

2011-11-19, 12:18 PM

Honestly I'm more curious why the wandering paladin warrior lady leaves a huge open patch in her armor right where her heart and lungs would be.

How do you know that's where Asari keep their heart and lungs? To borrow a phrase from Lennier on Babylon 5, "We may look like you, but we are not you." They're an entirely alien species who breed via some sort of psychic communication between the mother and father, I doubt their internal organs are laid out exactly the same way a human's are!

Dienekes

2011-11-19, 12:48 PM

How do you know that's where Asari keep their heart and lungs? To borrow a phrase from Lennier on Babylon 5, "We may look like you, but we are not you." They're an entirely alien species who breed via some sort of psychic communication between the mother and father, I doubt their internal organs are laid out exactly the same way a human's are!

Well, even assuming that the heart and lungs are not there, that brings up the question of why they developed that stature, what exactly are her ribs protecting? And if she doesn't have ribs how do they maintain that figure? Also unless her stomach and lungs are in the back of head that is going to be where the air and food flow will be, making that section still vitally important to her survival. Now we could go a step further and say what if she does not need to eat or breathe? And there I would likely throw something at you.

Landis963

2011-11-19, 01:04 PM

How do you know that's where Asari keep their heart and lungs? To borrow a phrase from Lennier on Babylon 5, "We may look like you, but we are not you." They're an entirely alien species who breed via some sort of psychic communication between the mother and father, I doubt their internal organs are laid out exactly the same way a human's are!

The chest is too convenient a place for any bipedal organism to not contain vital organs of some kind, all of which affect a body negatively if punctured by, say, a small pellet launched at relativistic speeds. Even leaving aside the heart and lungs, or indeed, most analogous human ventrally located things, the organs asari have in place of breasts are there (also conveniently exposed by the disputed chest patch), and certainly the rib cage or some analogue thereof. Besides, where else would asari keep their hearts and lungs? Their skull cavity? It would explain their approach to galactic politics. :smalltongue:

Marnath

2011-11-19, 02:20 PM

Which begs the question of why asari morals see fit to have these consistently scanty outfits for almost every occasion (see also: the multiple-bare section dresses, the ubiquitous bare midriff, the stripper outfit). Also, no fair pulling the "they're aliens, it doesn't have to make sense!" argument. Every tradition, every custom, every stereotype, of every culture has to come from something that would occur to that culture at its inception. For stereotypes, it comes from an exaggeration of some other culture, for traditions and customs it comes from some belief they had about their gods, which in turn was driven in some way by their evolution.

EDIT: Nice avvy, BTW. Is that your Skyrim character?

Maybe the planet they originated on is warmer than Earth? Or it could be because they're mono-gendered. Seriously, think about it- how much of our own fashion came about as a direct result of male vs. female courtship? It seems to me like there would be less of a focus on that if a given fashion is what all/most of the people you met would be wearing.

Zorg

2011-11-19, 04:16 PM

Well knowing that in the middle ages, in Europe, at least one nation had it as high fashion among noble women to if not go topless, at least bare their breasts completely in public. I THINK it was Crete, but I am not sure...

The Creteians, or the Minoan as they are called for the time period, who you refer to lived around 1700BC, so not middle ages by a long shot.

Avilan the Grey

2011-11-19, 04:34 PM

The Creteians, or the Minoan as they are called for the time period, who you refer to lived around 1700BC, so not middle ages by a long shot.

I am not talking about the Minoans. I am talking about early 12th century. I don't remember the island in question, but it was in the Mediterranean and I know because our most famous (to be) saint, Birgitta Birgersdotter, stopped there on the way to her pilgrimage to the holy land to preach about morals and the disaster of lack thereof. Shortly after the island was invaded and occupied.

Trying to google it but I can't find a reference: I have it in book form somewhere but that is hard to link to...

Landis963

2011-11-19, 05:31 PM

Um, they don't die - unless Shep runs around with his/her thumb up his/her *** instead of going to save them. :smallconfused: Even if you don't go right away, you can still save half of them unless you're really taking your sweet time.

Even the one guy that gets sent flying by a Scion ("Don't worry Joker, I'll protect you!") can survive - Chakwas mentions his pride being the most damaged part of him.

Sorry, misspoke there, it's just that not all of them needed to be taken by the collectors for the reasons I cited. Also, EDI clearly has the ability to lock down areas of the ship before she's unshackled, note "The AI core/Life Support deck/Main Battery is classified, Shepard." The section is tense and exciting, yes, but when you think about it it seems a little pointless.

factotum

2011-11-19, 06:27 PM

The chest is too convenient a place for any bipedal organism to not contain vital organs of some kind, all of which affect a body negatively if punctured by, say, a small pellet launched at relativistic speeds.

Relativistic speeds? I don't think she'd need to worry overmuch over holes in her clothing if something hit her at relativistic velocities, she'd be little more than superheated vapour no matter what she was wearing!

Landis963

2011-11-19, 07:09 PM

Relativistic speeds? I don't think she'd need to worry overmuch over holes in her clothing if something hit her at relativistic velocities, she'd be little more than superheated vapour no matter what she was wearing!

Well, at the normal muzzle speed for a Mass Effect gun, say a pistol. That's what I meant, and it's been a while since I actually checked the Mass Effect wiki to brush up on stuff like that. It's not FTL, because then your guns would give off a blue glow every time you tried to take a potshot at someone. However, it's pretty darn close, because if you get too far away from lightspeed, you start to get slight delays like a modern-day gun. If Miranda's outfit can protect against it, form-fitting or no, I have no problem with Samara's outfit doing the same - but that doesn't explain why Samara has the giant hole in the middle of her chest.

Of course, now it occurs to me that everyone who doesn't have a full set of armor (Samara, Jack, Miranda, even Thane) has biotics or is shield-paranoid Tali, and thus access to biotic barriers (or is sheild-paranoid Tali). This would work for Jacob as well, although his outfit gives the appearance of basic protective ability.

factotum

2011-11-20, 03:34 AM

Well, at the normal muzzle speed for a Mass Effect gun, say a pistol.

Which is not relativistic. That would mean the bullet is travelling at a significant proportion of the speed of light, and not only would that impart so much energy to the target that it would leave them as vapour*, the recoil would be impossible to handle. The famous scene in ME2 where a gunnery sergeant is talking about Isaac Newton being the deadliest son-of-a-bitch in space is referring to a ship's cannon, not a hand weapon!

* Just to give an example, if you had a bullet weighing only 10 grammes, and you fired it at 1% of the speed of light, the kinetic energy of said bullet would be 4.5 *trillion* joules, which is a little over a kiloton TNT equivalent. The bomb they dropped on Hiroshima was less than 20 kilotons! In addition, conservation of momentum tells us that a 100kg person firing a bullet of that mass at that speed would have to be propelled backwards at 3000 m/s, or 6710 mph. So, the target gets around a twentieth of a city-busting nuke hitting it while the person firing is flying backwards at around Mach 10, assuming there's anything left of them...

chiasaur11

2011-11-20, 04:38 AM

Yora

2011-11-20, 09:06 AM

Which is actually a bad idea. The plasma trails make it very easy to locate the shooter.

Querzis

2011-11-20, 11:08 AM

Which is actually a bad idea. The plasma trails make it very easy to locate the shooter.

...And? Except for assassination, I dont see how this is a problem (and Thane doesnt use guns when we see him assassinating people).

Landis963

2011-11-20, 11:15 AM

Which is not relativistic. That would mean the bullet is travelling at a significant proportion of the speed of light, and not only would that impart so much energy to the target that it would leave them as vapour*, the recoil would be impossible to handle. The famous scene in ME2 where a gunnery sergeant is talking about Isaac Newton being the deadliest son-of-a-bitch in space is referring to a ship's cannon, not a hand weapon!

* Just to give an example, if you had a bullet weighing only 10 grammes, and you fired it at 1% of the speed of light, the kinetic energy of said bullet would be 4.5 *trillion* joules, which is a little over a kiloton TNT equivalent. The bomb they dropped on Hiroshima was less than 20 kilotons! In addition, conservation of momentum tells us that a 100kg person firing a bullet of that mass at that speed would have to be propelled backwards at 3000 m/s, or 6710 mph. So, the target gets around a twentieth of a city-busting nuke hitting it while the person firing is flying backwards at around Mach 10, assuming there's anything left of them...

Yeah, my mistake. Naturally the codex doesn't say anything about the actual muzzle speed a conventional handheld mass accelerator would attain in this universe, although it does mention the problem you do, that "if accelerated to a high enough velocity, a paint chip can impact with the force of a nuclear weapon." However, they also mention the recoil problem, as you do, as it is "the prime limiting factor on slug velocity."

Aux-Ash

2011-11-20, 11:30 AM

Which is not relativistic. That would mean the bullet is travelling at a significant proportion of the speed of light, and not only would that impart so much energy to the target that it would leave them as vapour*, the recoil would be impossible to handle. The famous scene in ME2 where a gunnery sergeant is talking about Isaac Newton being the deadliest son-of-a-bitch in space is referring to a ship's cannon, not a hand weapon!

* Just to give an example, if you had a bullet weighing only 10 grammes, and you fired it at 1% of the speed of light, the kinetic energy of said bullet would be 4.5 *trillion* joules, which is a little over a kiloton TNT equivalent. The bomb they dropped on Hiroshima was less than 20 kilotons! In addition, conservation of momentum tells us that a 100kg person firing a bullet of that mass at that speed would have to be propelled backwards at 3000 m/s, or 6710 mph. So, the target gets around a twentieth of a city-busting nuke hitting it while the person firing is flying backwards at around Mach 10, assuming there's anything left of them...

No, the target won't be hit by a twentieth of a nuke. Because mechanical work and thermodynamical work are not the same and cannot instantly covert to one another.
What the target will be hit by is a projectile moving real fast, plowing it's way through the body real quick (and as you pointed out, the energy is enormous. Much greater than the body is ever capable of stopping) and then proceeding to move through any other objects along the path until it hits something dense enough to finally make it stop. They'll have a neat and very hot hole straight through them. But the projectile has much too much energy to ever be able to transfer even a tiny fraction of it to us.

On the other hand... the shooter (besides suffering the recoil you mentioned) will have to consider what else on this side of the planet he/she will hit and/or if she's putting anything in low orbit at risk.

Liffguard

2011-11-20, 02:15 PM

No, the target won't be hit by a twentieth of a nuke. Because mechanical work and thermodynamical work are not the same and cannot instantly covert to one another.
What the target will be hit by is a projectile moving real fast, plowing it's way through the body real quick (and as you pointed out, the energy is enormous. Much greater than the body is ever capable of stopping) and then proceeding to move through any other objects along the path until it hits something dense enough to finally make it stop. They'll have a neat and very hot hole straight through them. But the projectile has much too much energy to ever be able to transfer even a tiny fraction of it to us.

On the other hand... the shooter (besides suffering the recoil you mentioned) will have to consider what else on this side of the planet he/she will hit and/or if she's putting anything in low orbit at risk.

It's a bit of both. Clearly, the round wouldn't impart all of its energy into the target. On the other hand, it's stated in the codex that rounds are shaped to deform on impact so as to maximise the amount of energy imparted. So no vaporisation but you are looking at some pretty horrific internal injuries beyond just a straight, hot hole.

factotum

2011-11-20, 04:21 PM

So no vaporisation but you are looking at some pretty horrific internal injuries beyond just a straight, hot hole.

It's largely a moot point. Whether the energy is all transferred to the target or not, the target is still dead, whether they're wearing thin cloth robes or 12-inch battleship armour. :smallwink:

chiasaur11

2011-11-20, 04:23 PM

It's largely a moot point. Whether the energy is all transferred to the target or not, the target is still dead, whether they're wearing thin cloth robes or 12-inch battleship armour. :smallwink:

Mass Effect fields.

Landis963

2011-11-20, 06:35 PM

It's funny how this thread was entirely derailed by a misremembered background detail.

ryu

2011-11-20, 07:23 PM

Landis963

2011-11-20, 07:30 PM

Better question though why do we care if it gets derailed? I literally made the thing so as not to clutter a different thread so much. If everyone has finished using this as a hatred vent for all the least popular mass effect character *shakes fist menacingly at Miranda* I'm glad that they can still amuse themselves with it.

Because then it could just as easily be merged with the main thread (where is that thread, anyway? it's not been on the main page for a while). Also, I'd rather not have my main contribution to board dynamics be "he accidentally derailed a thread!"

Acanous

2011-11-20, 10:06 PM

Three points:

First, Asari are monogendered. This means that there would be no discrepancy in gender rights, at all, throughout their evolution. Secondly: Due to their biology, Asari can mate with any sentient being. This means that ALL asari consider anyone a potential mate, probably subconsiously, before any other considerations are made (Which is actually the case in humans, I wish I could find the test data that proved this.). Third, as posted before, Asari are Biotics. All of them. The weapons they go up against, they block with Biotic barriers, first and foremost. This means that they have maximum maneuverability without sacrificing protection *Anywhere*. They could go into battle naked, but then where would they keep all those guns?

So, given that Asari who are extroverted enough to go out into the galaxy and mingle with other races have the above considerations in background, is it any surprise they dress to impress?

Yora

2011-11-21, 08:42 AM

...And? Except for assassination, I dont see how this is a problem (and Thane doesnt use guns when we see him assassinating people).

Since Mass Effect is a Corridor-Shoter, it really doesn't matter at all for gameplay. But in actual warfare, not giving away your position instantly, is very important. It's like painting a bullseye on your helmet.

GungHo

2011-11-21, 10:10 AM

Samara's outfit IS justified since she isn't bound by human morals and aesthetics. To complain that an asari is too scantly clad is... so very 21st century human of you.
It just pure coincidence that those aesthetics line up with that of a 21st century 13 year-old human boy who just found spankmeteacher.com on his daddy's computer.

Dienekes

2011-11-21, 10:39 AM

Third, as posted before, Asari are Biotics. All of them. The weapons they go up against, they block with Biotic barriers, first and foremost. This means that they have maximum maneuverability without sacrificing protection *Anywhere*. They could go into battle naked, but then where would they keep all those guns?

Well firstly Samara doesn't even have the Barrier ability, but hey we can put that under gameplay/story segregation. Next this is countered by every single asari that you meet prepared for combat in the game as they all wear some form of armor. And then, Samara is wearing armor. That red form fitting suit she is wearing is armor, so it seems pretty obvious she sees the use of wearing the stuff, but she still doesn't protect her chest cavity and the likely important stuff therein.

Name_Here

2011-11-21, 02:01 PM

Samara
I don't like her or dislike her. Samara is a lawful stupid paladin and knows it. She lives by the code and is fully accepting of it which I can respect.
My problem is how she handles her daughter. Ardant Yakashi is a disease that from all conversations hints at being able to be cured. But Samara does not care and wants her child dead.
We have the best scientist in the universe let Mordin study your daughter!

As for the Daughter.
I want to be able to bed her without dieing! Shepard is awesome and a bad-ass and should be able to survive the process. The developers were jerks to actually kill you for interacting with her because she's the only Asari your getting close to this game(Without Shadow Brocker, and the previous game)
I want my Mordith! I want my super deadly sexy Asari and I want to be able to survive on the pure fact your character is just that awesome!

Jacob
I want to kill him. He ruins his dads dream. Why didn't he help him you know bring supplies remove the rebels. If he did that then Jacob and Shepard could have a island paradise but no no you got to do the right thing Jacob.
I want to be evil! I had no true evil option in his quest and that is my problem with it.
I want to play a character that has the ability to become worse then the Reapers I want the ability to become the scourge of humanity!

Nothing else at the moment

Not sure if serious but will proceed as though you are.

Samara
Where is it even hinted at that there is a cure for Ardak Yakashi? The only "cure" that the Asari have had for thousands of years is a peaceful seclusion. And even if there was an actual cure Morinth is a killer down to the bone. She has no remorse over her killings and would probably continue even if she could breed as normal.

Jacob
I actually love the fact that you can't make Shepard a raving psychopath. Because that would make no sense for a highly decorated military man to get through training have a successful career, be selected by a comitee that would go over every concivable aspect of Shepard's life and still get his jollies pulling legs off babies. Shepard at his worst being kind of a jerk is really the only believable option for the creators.

Besides, it's Shepard he doesn't need brain dead slaves.