Druid + prestige

[redhottsili]

I want to build a Druid. I am allowed to use any book. The only restriction is how much overpowered a character gets. The original thought was to build a Druid/Planar Shepard but I am not fixed in this.

I basically want to build a strong character, not necessarily ovepowered. However I haven't ever played a Druid before or even a divine spellcaster for that matter.

If you could provide some suggestions and ideally an example build for it I would be grateful.

[Killer Angel]

I basically want to build a strong character, not necessarily ovepowered.

You'll be a druid. This alone puts you in the high powered territory, even staying Core only... with Planar S. you'll decisely enter in the overpowered one: avoid it.

[redhottsili]

You'll be a druid. This alone puts you in the high powered territory, even staying Core only... with Planar S. you'll decisely enter in the overpowered one: avoid it.

Sure but as I say I haven't played a Druid before. So even as a core Druid do you have any suggestions?

[Yuki Akuma]

Any prestige class other than Planar Shepherd will make a Druid less powerful.

Planar Shepherd, meanwhile, will make the Druid even more overpowered than he already is.

Just go with Druid. Take Natural Spell and that's basically all the optimisation you'll ever need.

Druid is the one Tier 1 class that is very difficult to screw up.

[Golden Ladybug]

At level 6, take Natural Spell.

Thats pretty much all you need to do to make a Druid good, really. Its near impossible to screw up a Druid, they are incredibly intuitive.

Of course, make sure you have the stats of whatever you're wildshaping into on hand and write down your Spell's prepared somewhere. Then have fun and try not to accidently overshadow every other player.

[Feytalist]

Depends on what you want to focus, I suppose. For animal companion, you can take a few levels of Beastmaster. Hurts your spellcasting, though. For wildshape, Warshaper or Master of Many Forms or even Nature's Warrior might be good. Again, hurts your spellcasting.

For an all-round character though, there's no reason not to just stay in druid, and fill out the rest with feat selections.

[Killer Angel]

Sure but as I say I haven't played a Druid before. So even as a core Druid do you have any suggestions?

Feats: with spell focus (conj) and Augment summoning, your summoned allies will be improved greatly. Natural spells is the Key to power. And Improved Initiative, 'cause you can't go wrong going first.

Equipment: Wilding clasps (not core), 'cause having your magical gears active when wildshaping (almost always) it's great also. it could be considered overpowered by someone, though.

Must have equip (combined with the clasp): monk's belt or (if available) belt of battle.

[Gandariel]

Greenbound summoning /Ashbound summoning / Augment summoning are good feats for your summons if you intend to do that a lot.

Take Natural spell, of course.

As for animal companion, take riding wolf, then Fleshraker at level four.
take that feat (don't remember which one) which gives you a bonus to your effective druid level for your animal companion.

have a handy list of good animals to wildshape in.

take some good spells to enhance both you and your companion (Bite of the X, Venomfire)


And most importantly, max Craft(Basketweaving)

[Killer Angel]

Greenbound summoning /Ashbound summoning / Augment summoning are good feats for your summons if you intend to do that a lot.

Take Natural spell, of course.

As for animal companion, take riding wolf, then Fleshraker at level four.
take that feat (don't remember which one) which gives you a bonus to your effective druid level for your animal companion.

have a handy list of good animals to wildshape in.

take some good spells to enhance both you and your companion (Bite of the X, Venomfire)


And most importantly, max Craft(Basketweaving)

Some suggestions here are overpovered, though... :smalltongue:

[Gandariel]

Some suggestions here are overpovered, though... :smalltongue:

what?
i didn't even mentioned Underwater Basketweaving!!!

[Acanous]

Or Craft [Invisible Trap]!

Lion of Talisid is a pretty fine prestige class. You get an additional animal companion, it doesn't hurt your spellcasting, and you get some different wildshapes. Only downside is the prereq's, but it's one of very few Druid PrCs that doesn't make you suck, and it's not Planar Shepard so it sneaks under most radars.

[Elric VIII]

If you're a Shifter, Moonspeaker is also really good. You lose a few levels of wildshape and your AC stops, but your summons get better and you have a greater focus on metamagic and crafting.

[hex0]

Some suggestions here are overpovered, though... :smalltongue:

Dip for Monk 2 if you are worried about being overpowered. You'll get better saves, evasion, and 3 bonus feats too. WIS bonus to AC while wildshaped though.

You could also do Druid 5/UA variant Conjurer 3/Arcane Hierophant 10. AH continues your wildshape and combines your familiar and animal companion, so there is that. Less powerful, but more options. And you summons are even better.

What is the rest of the party?

[Randomguy]

Druids have 3 strong class features (they have others as well, but these are the best three): Medium base attack bonus, spellcasting and wildshape. For a prestige class to be worth taking, it has to progress all three of these things, unless you want to give yourself a slight nerf by specializing in either wildshape or spellcasting. That leaves just about only planar shepard, and that's way too overpowered for anything.


That said, there are some good druid classes which mostly involve mixing druid with another class you can be the party sneak if you want by picking up a level in rogue, taking two weapon fighting and weapon focus (dagger) and then going straight into daggerspell shaper as soon as you can.

Also, if you take an alternate class feature to get rid of wildshape and replace it with something else (which is normally not worth it since that's a power nerf, but it reduces teh amount of bookeeping you need to do), you can take the stormlord PrC for complete divine. It's not that powerful, but if you don't have wildshape you're not loosing much, and it's pretty awesome, though not particularly practical.

[Rubik]

Druids have 3 strong class features (they have others as well, but these are the best three): animal companion, spellcasting and wildshape. For a prestige class to be worth taking, it has to progress all three of these things, unless you want to give yourself a slight nerf by specializing in either wildshape or spellcasting. That leaves just about only planar shepard, and that's way too overpowered for anything.
Fixed that for you.

[sonofzeal]

Thats pretty much all you need to do to make a Druid good, really. Its near impossible to screw up a Druid, they are incredibly intuitive.
False.

The intuition, and common board wisdom, seems to be to turn into a bear and bite something's face off. While that can work, to be a credible melee combatant with a life expectancy measured in more than rounds, you need some method of gaining items in Wildshape.

- Animal forms tend to have abysmal AC for their level. Equal CR challenges can usually demolish you on a full attack
- Few if any animal forms have innate ranged ability, nearly all require you to be stationary in melee making full attacks to do much damage.
- Druids tends to have decent but not spectacular HP... especially if you take the "intuitive" route of Elf or Wood Elf, as I've seen more than a few newbies do.

Druids using Wildshape for combat actually suffer from many of the same problems as Monks - same BAB, same HD, similar or sometimes even inferior AC, have to be adjacent and full-attacking for offensive credibility. Yet Monks are famously terrible but this is supposed to be an easy win-button on Druids? Huh?!?

Druids CAN be brokenly powerful, and they can still do so in several ways. Relying on spells is easy (but requires at least a little system mastery in picking appropriate spells and using them creatively). And Wildshape can be turned into an engine of destruction, specifically by bypassing the "all your gear disappears" caveat.

Note that gear disappearing includes not only all defensive items, but also Pearls of Power, Periapts of Wisdom (goodbye bonus spellslots!), Amulets of Health (goodbye bonus HP!), and any of the host of utility items a character can expect to pick up in their career.



There are two methods of overcoming the no-items caveat. The cheesy way is simply to take it off, Wildshape, and then have someone drape them over you... but I doubt most DMs would take kindly to that. And then there's Wildling Clasps, if you have access to MIC. These make Wildshape far more effective as a combat form.

There's other ways too - appropriate use of buffs like Barkskin can help a lot, and dipping Monk or Swordsage can do wonders as well. Starting as Barbarian gets you a bit of extra hp, Rage for more Con, and Fast Movement. There's other ways as well.

But I hate it when people say that it's "trivial" or "intuitive" to rock out in Wildshape. It's only easy when you already know how.

I've seen too many people fail horribly at it to believe otherwise.

[hex0]

Check Swift and Deadly Hunter Druid from UA (it is on the SRD).

Maybe work that into a Fochlucan Lyrist build (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872158/Tools_for_Fochlucan_Lyrist_Builds)

[Gavinfoxx]

Okay, here's the basics of Druid:

1.) Your primary stat is Wis, your secondary stat is Con. Never take any race that lowers Con.
2.) Wildshape into big battle creatures, ideally BEFORE the fight starts -- in fact, by level 8, you never have to be OUT of Wild Shape. Always upgrade your combat forms to the biggest and best thing you can. Generally this will be an animal.
3.) Make sure to get Natural Spell at level 6
4.) Always upgrade your animal companion to the next big awesome mean creature that you can.
5.) Make sure you have a way to communicate while in Wild Shape. This is how you manage to stay in wild shape. The core item that can do this is Medallion of Thought Projection, though MIC has Pearls of Spech.
6.) Your best spells are long duration buff spells, summoning spells, and battlefield control spells, with the ability to do a few blasts if the situation absolutely calls for it. Try not to spend more than the first, MAYBE the second round of combat on spellcasting if you are a melee monster. First round should be a battlefield control spell or a summon. Make sure you have buffs up BEFORE combat starts -- with long duration ones, this should be easy.
7.) Seek ways to use your items while in wildshape -- either taking them off and putting them on after you shape, wilding clasps, or whatever.
8.) Never trade away your spellcasting, animal companion, or wild shape -- if you take a prestige class, make sure it fully advances all three (only one prestige class generally does this).

[redhottsili]

Thanks for all the replies so far. As for the Planar Shepard I already described key features to the DM. He didn't seem to mind, although he wasn't keen on Fernia's or Dal Quor's properties. I imagine that I would be allowed to pick either one but I would get some nerfs to the degree the DM sees fit.

However as I pointed out my main concern is not to have the most powerful character, rather than be above average and not fall behind battle or story-wise.

I am not so keen in multiclassing, so I guess I'll check out the suggestions about a Druid only or some prestige classes that have been mentioned.

[NOhara24]

However as I pointed out my main concern is not to have the most powerful character, rather than be above average and not fall behind battle or story-wise.



Then DON'T take Planar Shepard. Seriously. It's hard NOT to play an overpowered Druid with even minimal optimization. As people before me have said, this is your build:

Druid 20:

Feats:
Basket weaving(1, pre-req for third level feat)

Underwater Basket weaving (3)

Natural Spell (6)

Natural Basket weaving (9, need both natural spell and Underwater Basket weaving for this.)

Focused Basket weaving (12, gives bonus to concentration check if weaving a basket in the middle of a fight.)

Extraplanar Basket weaving (15, otherwise your baskets wouldn't survive a planar shift, should you happen upon one.)

Master Basket weaver (18, your baskets provide a +1 basket bonus when fighting baskets.)

Of course, you could just play the Unearthed Arcana variant Druid, or just not take Natural Spell and Planar Shepard at all. That would solve your problem.

[Yuki Akuma]

Thanks for all the replies so far. As for the Planar Shepard I already described key features to the DM. He didn't seem to mind, although he wasn't keen on Fernia's or Dal Quor's properties. I imagine that I would be allowed to pick either one but I would get some nerfs to the degree the DM sees fit.

However as I pointed out my main concern is not to have the most powerful character, rather than be above average and not fall behind battle or story-wise.

I am not so keen in multiclassing, so I guess I'll check out the suggestions about a Druid only or some prestige classes that have been mentioned.

If you're not worried about being the best, then don't take Planar Shepherd. Druid is already overpowered, and Planar Shepherd makes it more powerful.

[marcielle]

If you see someone wielding a metal helmet, BACK THE HECK AWAY.

[imneuromancer]

Master Basket weaver (18, your baskets provide a +1 basket bonus when fighting baskets.)


To optimize this I would suggest taking a level of Ranger so that he can get favoured enemy: baskets