Risen - is it supposed to be this hard?

[Morty]

I bought Risen recently. So far, it's been pretty fun - what Gothic III and Arcania should have been. However, now that I'm looking for the crystal discs for Inquisitor Mendoza, I ran into a problem. The problem being, the way to two of the crystals I know of - I already got the one Don Estaban had, and now I'm looking for Cyrus and the Eastern Temple - is blocked by a pack of ghouls. And even one of them is a very tough opponent. Which is kind of ridiculous and makes it kinda hard to continue. The lack of level scaling is refreshing, but seriously. Even the first two Gothic games had the courtesy not to send you into certain places before you're strong enough to survive there, so if you got squished by a Troll or hacket to pieces by Orcs you only had yourself to blame.
Am I doing something wrong? Is it supposed to be that way?

[Cespenar]

Yes, Risen is hard. I'm playing it right now, and several times I've stopped myself from punching the screen at the last second. The main issue is that every enemy has the same combat AI and same reaction time. That means even a ghoul or lowly wasp can dodge your blows like he's Neo.

I could go on ranting, but to be helping a little, I can suggest the following:

First, your question. No, you're probably not doing something wrong.

Then, some battle tips. It's all about numbers. If you can, never fight against more than one serious enemy. Divide and conquer. If there are two ghouls 10ft. from each other, if you attack them from range, they'll both come. If you carefully enter the range of either of them while staying away from the other, you can pull only one of them, fall back, and fight one on one.

Another tip. Use NPCs. Seriously. If there's any NPC close by, pull the critters to them and let them join the fight. Then circle around and backstab the suckers. If they turn on you, jump back and let them focus on the NPC. If you can, acquire Summon Skeleton scrolls. I can't tell you enough of the value of an ally in battle.

Also, kite. I don't like doing this in a RPG, but the game forces you to take every advantage whatsoever. Get any ranged weapon, and do what the Mongols did, except without the horse.

You probably know this and some of my other suggestions, but to be on the safe side: Shields are good. Two handed weapons can't block some of the monster attacks (or so I've been experiencing), but shields can block damn near anything.

And on a closing note, ghouls are quick. Don't spend too much time blocking, or they'll do that frost magic thingy. Try to go on the offensive just after they finish that 3-attack routine.

P.S. Get better armor whenever you can. You'll always get hurt, even if you max your weapon skill, so a good armor can do wonders.

[Morty]

Yeah, I hear you. Everything you said matches my experience perfectly.
I ended up taking a wholly different route - I turned into a Nautilus and snuck past the ghouls. Which was the right thing to do as I can't even beat a lone ghoul that's separated from the rest. They're just crazy. Lots of hitpoints, they hit like trucks and their speed and reach means it's nigh-impossible to block and dodge. I guess I'll just go on and leave the ghouls alone.
On another note, the Magic Bullet seems kinda useless. Someone got the bright idea to give it an extremely wide crosshair, meaning that it's very easy to miss with 50% of your shots, wasting time and mana. It would've been useful to know that before I decided to invest experience into it...
Oh, and I'm playing as a Mage, so I use magic and staves.

[Cespenar]

Oh, magic and staves. Hmm. Not having shields is tough, but as a mage you can pull clever stuff like that nautilus stealth, which is cool.

With magic bullet, it's a bit tricky to hit opponents, but it's great if you can force them to come at you in a direct line. My experience with it is limited though, as I'm a warrior.

Also, try to finish everything in Harbor Town before continuing with that quest, if you haven't. Not that the main quest will block you or anything, but Harbor Town is a XP mine. If you can follow its quests to the end, you'll probably get a good armor of the faction you're on too.

[GungHo]

Yes, it's supposed to be this hard. Apparently the developers like hard.

[Morty]

Yeah, I've realized the potential of the Summon Skeleton spell. I'll definetly make sure to have a bunch of scrolls until I can use the rune. It'll be easy, since I already found the rune on some powerful skeleton.
And I suppose I will go back to the Harbour town and do all the fetch quests... not sure how it'll get me better armor, though.
Also, I decided to lower the difficulty to Easy. Normally I'd be reluctant to do so, but not in this game.

[Cespenar]

Not sure how the mage faction does it, but as you get "promoted" in your faction, you unlock several armor types. I went with the Don and it was like that, at least.

I think if you'd "get" Harbor Town for the Order, you'd probably get a promotion or two.

[Morty]

There's only one mage robe beyond the one you get at the start. It looks like it's indeed given at the promotion. Not sure when that happens, though. I chased off all Don's men from the town already. I haven't found the golden bowls though, since the quest seems to have bugged out and the three brothers vanished. :smallannoyed:

[Cespenar]

Hmm. Then I'm not so sure. Do all quests that have to do with the Order, I suppose? Ones in the Monastery as well Harbor Town.

[Maxios]

Not sure how the mage faction does it, but as you get "promoted" in your faction, you unlock several armor types. I went with the Don and it was like that, at least.

I think if you'd "get" Harbor Town for the Order, you'd probably get a promotion or two.

I never played Risen; but if the Mage's Guild is actually a Mage Mafia, I might have to check it out sometime :smalltongue:.

[Cespenar]

I never played Risen; but if the Mage's Guild is actually a Mage Mafia, I might have to check it out sometime :smalltongue:.

The Don is the leader of the other faction, not the one we've been talking about. :smallbiggrin:

[Emmerask]

I don´t know if that has been fixed, but don´t try to be a smart ass (as I tried to) and do half the faction quests for one party to gain more xp because at one point you have done all the quests but need one more to actually finish the main quest where you proof your loyalty to one side or the other... which you can´t do anymore at that point

was pretty much game over for me after that :smallwink:

[ryzouken]

Endboss is rage inducing in its BS. Mostly due to the game's pisspoor controls.

My hatred for Risen... it's immense.

[Cespenar]

Endboss is rage inducing in its BS. Mostly due to the game's pisspoor controls.

My hatred for Risen... it's immense.

I'm nearing the endgame... I think. And you made me worry. I have instances of leaving a game on the final boss.

Hmm.

[factotum]

Endboss is rage inducing in its BS. Mostly due to the game's pisspoor controls.

My hatred for Risen... it's immense.

While I would agree that the end boss is a really, really poor fight:


Yes, let's throw away everything you've done to specialise your character up till now and force you to fight it with a bloody great axe!


I don't think hating the entire game just for that is really fair. If you *got* to the final boss fight you must surely have been entertained for, like, 98% of the time you played the game, and I'd call that a pretty good hit ratio!

[Morty]

Hmm. Then I'm not so sure. Do all quests that have to do with the Order, I suppose? Ones in the Monastery as well Harbor Town.

A quick check revealed that you get promoted to Master Mage and recieve the new robe in Chapter 4, so it has nothing to do with the quests in Harbor Town.

[Cespenar]

A quick check revealed that you get promoted to Master Mage and recieve the new robe in Chapter 4, so it has nothing to do with the quests in Harbor Town.

Did you already get your second promotion?

[Maxios]

The Don is the leader of the other faction, not the one we've been talking about. :smallbiggrin:

Darn. Well, at least now I know what my next fantasy story I write is going to be about now :smalltongue:.

[Morty]

Did you already get your second promotion?

No, I didn't. You become either a Mage or a Warrior of the Order in Chapter I. It looks like you become a Master Mage and recieve a new robe in Chapter IV.

[Cespenar]

No, I didn't. You become either a Mage or a Warrior of the Order in Chapter I. It looks like you become a Master Mage and recieve a new robe in Chapter IV.

Weird. In the other faction, it's linear, or again, so I have experienced. Hunter to Fighter to Captain. Huh. It's interesting that they've done the promotions kinda asymmetric.

Edit: Battle tip update, by the way. Try to reach up to the level in your staff fighting that allows you to employ Power Attacks. It really eases things. You back up, charge, follow through, back up, rinse, repeat. No need to be in the range of those pesky enemies.

[Morty]

As it turns out, the skeleton-summoning spell is crazy good. A reasonably tough fighter on your side is invaluable simply because it gives the enemies an additional target - either they attack you and get whacked by the skeleton or attack the skeleton and recieve a beating from you.
There's also a very easy exploit connected to this spell - if you load the game, the skeleton is back to full health. It can make it last a very long time even if you don't intentionally abuse it.

[Cespenar]

True. Whenever you get outmatched, summon a skeleton. 100 gp at worst, somewhat cheaper if you craft them, and definitely worth not getting angry over a game.

[Cespenar]

Phew. Finally beat it. Fortunately, the bossfight was pretty tame compared to the rest of the game. Standard platformer schtick. Got it in three tries. The ending was a little lackluster, though. As with the whole game, it could have been much better. Ah well.

[Morty]

Well, I'm in Chapter 4, the endgame. And I'm not sure if I'll finish this game... I'm heading towards the first piece of the Titan Armor and there are trios of elite lizardmen at every step, which is nuts. :smallannoyed:
Mind you, this is not entirely unique to Risen. I have no idea why RPG writers always think it's a good idea to turn the endgame into a slugfest against dozens and dozens of enemies.

[Cespenar]

I watched a mage run of the endgame, and he absolutely dominated the elite lizardmen just by spamming magic missile.

It... did not seem like the game I played.

[Morty]

Maybe I didn't invest heavily enough in Magic Missile and mana, then. It is very effective - it's just that I run out of mana before I can put down even one elite lizardman unless I also spam mana potions.

[Psychonaut]

Just to chime in here...


P.S. Get better armor whenever you can. You'll always get hurt, even if you max your weapon skill, so a good armor can do wonders.

It's also a good idea to train the second level of smithing to make armor-increasing rings. There are many methods to increase your offensive capabilities in Risen, but you can only increase defense through equipment; this, combined with the fact that major armor upgrades past leather can only be obtained by advancing the story, means that an extra 16 points to all physical resistances makes a huge difference.


I ended up taking a wholly different route - I turned into a Nautilus and snuck past the ghouls. Which was the right thing to do as I can't even beat a lone ghoul that's separated from the rest. They're just crazy. Lots of hitpoints, they hit like trucks and their speed and reach means it's nigh-impossible to block and dodge. I guess I'll just go on and leave the ghouls alone.

This is one of my favorite things about Piranha Bytes' games. If you get stuck on a battle that isn't crucial to the story, there's usually a way to bypass it until you're powerful enough for it or complete it using non-standard methods without resorting to exploits. On my last playthrough as a mage in Risen, for example, I used a Nautilus scroll to get past the cave with three ghouls to the northeast area of the island and a Levitation scroll to get back. And I think we may have already had a conversation about this in another thread with regard to NotR and getting past the bandit archers outside Khorinis.


I don´t know if that has been fixed, but don´t try to be a smart ass (as I tried to) and do half the faction quests for one party to gain more xp because at one point you have done all the quests but need one more to actually finish the main quest where you proof your loyalty to one side or the other... which you can´t do anymore at that point

was pretty much game over for me after that :smallwink:

I'm pretty sure it's impossible to screw yourself out of joining a faction in this manner.

- If you're talking about the quests in Harbor Town (as you seem to be), there are seven of them, none of which can be failed, and you only need to solve four of them to go with one of the factions. Even if you go half and half for the first six, the last one will decide which faction you end up with.

- If you're talking about the quests in the swamp camp, they don't have any effect on your ability to join either faction - not even the one from the Don's right-hand man (forget his name) that requires you to slaughter one of the Order camps. You can't do these quests after joining the Order, however.

- If you're talking about the quests in the monastery, you're already part of one of the factions by the time you get there. I'm pretty sure that the whole reason you get extra quests for taking the bandits' side in Harbor Town is to help balance this out, since anyone can do all of the quests in the bandit camp before entering Harbor Town but only Order members can do the majority of the monastery quests.

Not sure what happens if you get kidnapped by the Order and try to do the Harbor Town quests favoring the bandits after you're sent there, though, but considering that this is one of the easiest ways to end up in a faction, I doubt that the developers failed to account for this possibility.


I haven't found the golden bowls though, since the quest seems to have bugged out and the three brothers vanished. :smallannoyed:

This may not be a bug. Once you reach the second chapter (which you already did, based on your opening post), they're moved to one of the places you visit as part of the main quest, and after you finish up there they stay outside it for at least the rest of the chapter.


Maybe I didn't invest heavily enough in Magic Missile and mana, then. It is very effective - it's just that I run out of mana before I can put down even one elite lizardman unless I also spam mana potions.

For the crystals, I'd advise going all-out to train them to level 10 before increasing your mana at all; due to the way enemy resistances work and the fact that each level causes them to do more damage without increasing the mana cost, this is both more efficient and more effective than increasing mana. Aside from that, it should be easy to get enough mana to finish any fight without drinking potions unless you train heavily in other combat skills, especially if you invest in alchemy up to the third level (which is easily the most overpowered skill in the game for its cost in learning points) and use permanent potions to increase mana. Better yet, there's no maximum to how high you can train mana and it costs the same at any level, so there's no reason not to make the potions as soon as you have the ingredients for it if you're playing a "purist" mage.

[Morty]

This may not be a bug. Once you reach the second chapter (which you already did, based on your opening post), they're moved to one of the places you visit as part of the main quest, and after you finish up there they stay outside it for at least the rest of the chapter.

Yes, it wasn't a bug. I was too quick to call it such.



For the crystals, I'd advise going all-out to train them to level 10 before increasing your mana at all; due to the way enemy resistances work and the fact that each level causes them to do more damage without increasing the mana cost, this is both more efficient and more effective than increasing mana. Aside from that, it should be easy to get enough mana to finish any fight without drinking potions unless you train heavily in other combat skills, especially if you invest in alchemy up to the third level (which is easily the most overpowered skill in the game for its cost in learning points) and use permanent potions to increase mana. Better yet, there's no maximum to how high you can train mana and it costs the same at any level, so there's no reason not to make the potions as soon as you have the ingredients for it if you're playing a "purist" mage.

So it seems. One thing I love about RPGs in general is the way you can screw yourself over by bad planning. I'm in the endgame now so it's too late to change this, really. I'll just sink any level-ups I get into the Magic Crystal. I wonder if it was a mistake to reach level 5 in staff fighting.

[Morty]

This may not be a bug. Once you reach the second chapter (which you already did, based on your opening post), they're moved to one of the places you visit as part of the main quest, and after you finish up there they stay outside it for at least the rest of the chapter.

Yes, it wasn't a bug. I was too quick to call it such.



For the crystals, I'd advise going all-out to train them to level 10 before increasing your mana at all; due to the way enemy resistances work and the fact that each level causes them to do more damage without increasing the mana cost, this is both more efficient and more effective than increasing mana. Aside from that, it should be easy to get enough mana to finish any fight without drinking potions unless you train heavily in other combat skills, especially if you invest in alchemy up to the third level (which is easily the most overpowered skill in the game for its cost in learning points) and use permanent potions to increase mana. Better yet, there's no maximum to how high you can train mana and it costs the same at any level, so there's no reason not to make the potions as soon as you have the ingredients for it if you're playing a "purist" mage.

So it seems. One thing I love about RPGs in general is the way you can screw yourself over by bad planning. I'm in the endgame now so it's too late to change this, really. I'll just sink any level-ups I get into the Magic Crystal. I wonder if it was a mistake to reach level 5 in staff fighting. Or rather level 4, since one futher level comes from a ring.