Crusader healing?

[Snowbluff]

So if I was Necropolitan, would using Crusader healing strikes harm me? Would it matter if I was good or evil?

[Big Fau]

No, they would not (except the 9th level one).

[Snowbluff]

No, they would not (except the 9th level one).

Really? Oh, because it does a Heal spell... well, no Necroposh Crusader for me then :P

[Tyndmyr]

Good or evil has no bearing whatsoever on what heals you. A necropolitan can be good, but still be hurt by the positive energy spells that hurt undead.

It's going off type, not alignment.

[NeoSeraphi]

There should really be some kind of Reverse Tomb-Tainted So- !

*runs to the homebrew forum*

*runs back* Ta-da! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12234764#post12234764)

[Hiro Protagonest]

CRUSADER HEALING IS NOT POSITIVE ENERGY.

IT'S ALSO NOT SUPERNATURAL. Just thought I'd throw that in.

[Douglas]

CRUSADER HEALING IS NOT POSITIVE ENERGY.
Except Strike of Righteous Vitality, because it duplicates a Heal spell.

[NeoSeraphi]

CRUSADER HEALING IS NOT POSITIVE ENERGY.

IT'S ALSO NOT SUPERNATURAL. Just thought I'd throw that in.

That's right! It's some kind of extraordinary morale bonus that grants temporary hit points that are not lost first and also stabilizes you. Or something. Even if you're unconscious! Go crusader!

[Snowbluff]

That's right! It's some kind of extraordinary morale bonus that grants temporary hit points that are not lost first and also stabilizes you. Or something. Even if you're unconscious! Go crusader!

Thanks, i was just considering Necroposh cuz I'd it would be helpful for a +0 Template, and if my DM allows, I'll see if I can free up a feat slot for the horribly MAD and feat heavy set up I'll be running with this character :P

[Big Fau]

Necropolitan is fairly poor for Crusaders. You lose your Con score, which is a major source of HP. Even if you could do the trick where you get d12+6/level off of the template, it still gets outpaced by proper Con optimization.

[Curious]

Actually, if he is using PF rules he automatically gains his Cha bonus to HP rather than Con if he is undead. But otherwise, yeah, bad choice.

[Snowbluff]

Actually, if he is using PF rules he automatically gains his Cha bonus to HP rather than Con if he is undead. But otherwise, yeah, bad choice.

Well, I have a 14 or a 12 for a con, so on avg, if I were a straight crusader, yeah. I am taking RKV, so being necropolitan would maintain the average, and I have some cloistered cleric, which it would be straight up better than. Plus, no ability damage for corrupt/sanctified spells, or anyway in general, is neat. My base Fortitude saves are looking weak for this built, too.

[Snowbluff]

CRUSADER HEALING IS NOT POSITIVE ENERGY.

IT'S ALSO NOT SUPERNATURAL. Just thought I'd throw that in.

Woah, it works in AMF. AWESOME!

[Amphetryon]

That's right! It's some kind of extraordinary morale bonus that grants temporary hit points that are not lost first and also stabilizes you. Or something. Even if you're unconscious! Go crusader!

"You're not hurt! Get up, soldier! Don't you die on me, boy! You don't get to die until I give the order, DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME!" . . . That's how I always envision it, anyway.

See also: Sara Conner motivating Reese in the original Terminator.

[Big Fau]

Well, I have a 14 or a 12 for a con, so on avg, if I were a straight crusader, yeah. I am taking RKV, so being necropolitan would maintain the average, and I have some cloistered cleric, which it would be straight up better than. Plus, no ability damage for corrupt/sanctified spells, or anyway in general, is neat. My base Fortitude saves are looking weak for this built, too.

Except you can still pull a good 22-28 Con off of a 12 base, possibly even a 30 if you go Dragonborn (and Dragonborn RKV works, as Bahamut doesn't require you to worship him to become Dragonborn). A d10+6 is, on average, better than a d12+0.

[Snowbluff]

"You're not hurt! Get up, soldier! Don't you die on me, boy! You don't get to die until I give the order, DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME!" . . . That's how I always envision it, anyway.

See also: Sara Conner motivating Reese in the original Terminator.

How I describe Crusaders to my players is "Like how you would hope the Paladin would work. Also, really hard to kill."

They get Steely Resolve, or whatever the temp damage pool is, which keeps them from taking alot of damage until their turn. Healing Strikes and stances. They even get a stance later that let's them roll a Fortitude based on how dead they are to see if they actually go unconscious and die! I think they get Diehard as a bonus feat, too. And they can qualify for Stone Power, which is another X temp HP if you don't mind some losses to Attack.

[Snowbluff]

Except you can still pull a good 22-28 Con off of a 12 base, possibly even a 30 if you go Dragonborn (and Dragonborn RKV works, as Bahamut doesn't require you to worship him to become Dragonborn). A d10+6 is, on average, better than a d12+0.

Um, can I really do that if all of my ability points are going towards my Wis for casting? You do make a good point, and you have intrigued me. I'll take a look at being Dragonborn. Also, I will being talking to my DM about Cha to health, and I am sure their are rituals or something I can take for Cha health, too.

Really, so that you know where I am coming from, what I am most worried about is MAD, and cutting Con from the equation would help me a lot. I don't think I'll end up as the group's tank anyway, I just wanted to do a nice holy gish type thing. I mostly DM and my opportunities to mess around like this don't come often.

[Big Fau]

Um, can I really do that if all of my ability points are going towards my Wis for casting?

Assuming a 12 base, you get a +6 Amulet of Health and a +4 Manual. It will run you around 136K, but your HP will hit 22.

As long as you are casting buffs (not damage spells or save-or-dies), your Wis just needs to hit 19 for you to be solid. RKV is a Gish class, so most of your spells should be buffs anyway. You can easily afford to pump Con into the mid-20's without hurting your build.

[Snowbluff]

Assuming a 12 base, you get a +6 Amulet of Health and a +4 Manual. It will run you around 136K, but your HP will hit 22.

As long as you are casting buffs (not damage spells or save-or-dies), your Wis just needs to hit 19 for you to be solid. RKV is a Gish class, so most of your spells should be buffs anyway. You can easily afford to pump Con into the mid-20's without hurting your build.

True, true. I'll have to see how generous the GM will be with items and gold. This is my first time playing with him as a GM, but I think I leave a good enough impression when he plays in my campaign.

While I am picking your brain to make this decision, do you know of a feat that'll let me avoid Ability Damage like an Undead?

[Seerow]

True, true. I'll have to see how generous the GM will be with items and gold. This is my first time playing with him as a GM, but I think I leave a good enough impression when he plays in my campaign.

While I am picking your brain to make this decision, do you know of a feat that'll let me avoid Ability Damage like an Undead?

Not sure about a feat, but I'm willing to bet there's a spell for that somewhere.

[Snowbluff]

Not sure about a feat, but I'm willing to bet there's a spell for that somewhere.

Veil of Undeath from the SC would seem to do the trick, but it's a rather high level spell :P

[Douglas]

If ability damage immunity is the only part you care about, Sheltered Vitality from Spell Compendium is what you want.

[Snowbluff]

If ability damage immunity is the only part you care about, Sheltered Vitality from Spell Compendium is what you want.

Oh, that is so much better, thanks!

I am partially in it for the Ability Damage immunity, but also to reduce item and stat point costs for health. The Flavor is nice, too!

[Seerow]

Oh, that is so much better, thanks!

I am partially in it for the Ability Damage immunity, but also to reduce item and stat point costs for health. The Flavor is nice, too!

tbh even having 12-14 con is better than having no con for your HP. Yes you pay more money for extra con past that, but if you do it's still bonus HP and fort saves that you wouldn't have as an undead, so still a net gain.

And don't forget, you're going RKV, which means plenty of cleric buffs. There's plenty of spells that boost con as well if you want to be cheap.

[Snowbluff]

tbh even having 12-14 con is better than having no con for your HP. Yes you pay more money for extra con past that, but if you do it's still bonus HP and fort saves that you wouldn't have as an undead, so still a net gain.

And don't forget, you're going RKV, which means plenty of cleric buffs. There's plenty of spells that boost con as well if you want to be cheap.

Keeping those buffs up is either going to require more of my Turn attempts for Extend/Persistent, or more actions lost. I'd rather shell out a bit o' cash than do that sort of thing. Then again, a Rod o' Persistent might be able to fix about anything for some gold.

You also have to consider other things that increase HP regardless of Con, like Divine power. I'll have other buffs up, too, and I have played a Divine Caster with plenty of defenses/healing/health, so I think I can figure out the buff part. Though it would be better to have more health, I don't honestly think it'll matter. Like I said, I'll talk to the DM about Cha to health, but I don't think I'll have a problem with survivability.

From what I know, this won't be a high powered campaign, which is why I am messing around with the stuff I am using. This is more of an exercise in chopping the MAD so that I am down to only a few stats (Str for melee, Wis for spells, Cha for Turning/RKV features/DMM).

...

Actually, I have no idea how this thread got here.

EDIT: I should tell you that I'll try for a more favorable spread of stats if the DM gives the go-ahead on the positive undead healing feat. I'll for more Str, since it's looking like a 13 right now :smallfrown:

[Amphetryon]

If ability damage immunity is the only part you care about, Sheltered Vitality from Spell Compendium is what you want.

There's also Sacred Vitality, a feat from LM, but it costs turning attempts. It's potentially useful with a Crusader going into RKV.

[Snowbluff]

There's also Sacred Vitality, a feat from LM, but it costs turning attempts. It's potentially useful with a Crusader going into RKV.

Good option, actually. Remember that Persisting the spells would give me bettr action economy, but would cost a bunch of Turning. I could use this feat instead for times when I am planning on taking ability damage.

EDIT: Feats are Ex skills, right. So this should would in AMF and stuff. Cool :smallcool:

[Big Fau]

Shape Soulmeld: Strongheart Vest and the Soul Boon spell can provide you with protection from up to 4 points of ability damage/effect that causes ability damage. Seeing as most enemies deal ability damage via d6s, this protects you from most forms of it.

If you can work it out with your DM/into your build, the Least Dragonmark (Healing) provides you with Lesser Restoration 1/day for free as a standard action. There's also a feat in PGtE that gives you 3 extra uses of any Dragonmark's ability. Given that you are going Crusader/RKV the healing abilities may be a bit redundant, but you can still make great use of all three of the regular Dragonmarks (and Halflings are a great race anyway).

While on the subject of Eberron, Warforged are an excellent option for Crusaders, and are naturally immune to ability damage, drain, and energy drain.

Finally, the Orb of Mental Renewal and Rod of Bodily Health from the MiC are cheap, useful items that restore ability scores. There's also Minor Schemas in MoE, which can hold up to 6th level spells and use them 1/day (so Restoration).

[Snowbluff]

Shape Soulmeld: Strongheart Vest and the Soul Boon spell can provide you with protection from up to 4 points of ability damage/effect that causes ability damage. Seeing as most enemies deal ability damage via d6s, this protects you from most forms of it.

If you can work it out with your DM/into your build, the Least Dragonmark (Healing) provides you with Lesser Restoration 1/day for free as a standard action. There's also a feat in PGtE that gives you 3 extra uses of any Dragonmark's ability. Given that you are going Crusader/RKV the healing abilities may be a bit redundant, but you can still make great use of all three of the regular Dragonmarks (and Halflings are a great race anyway).

While on the subject of Eberron, Warforged are an excellent option for Crusaders, and are naturally immune to ability damage, drain, and energy drain.

Finally, the Orb of Mental Renewal and Rod of Bodily Health from the MiC are cheap, useful items that restore ability scores. There's also Minor Schemas in MoE, which can hold up to 6th level spells and use them 1/day (so Restoration).

Generally I'd use the Orb of Epic win and the Rod of Epic Win, but as I said, can't rely on the DM's gold and item output. I would also avoid the Warforged since it would ruin my RP concept and wreck my 2 most valuable abilities, but then I realized that the Faux Affably Evil monk in the party will probably know Stunning Fist, so it's either Construct or Undead for me. :P