Party vs. Deathknight...

[TheCountAlucard]

So, I've been playing a Diviner in a friend's D&D campaign for the past few months, and we just hit level 11.

Twice now, the party has come up against a Death Knight (as in, the template from MMII), and twice now, we've failed to defeat it; the first time, our Fighter actually died, but such is hardly surprising, since the party was still around fifth level or so, and the second time, he was dealt a single point of damage for the whole combat, before a vampire showed up out of nowhere and attacked him, and we took the opportunity to get away from him.

We observed during the second fight that he was fifteenth-level, immune to fire (or at least resistant enough to it that he never took damage from my wall of fire spell, even after I beat his spell resistance), and had really high saves (probably from blackguard levels). As for equipment, he had adamantine full plate, a fiendhelm, an adamantine bastard sword, and a shield of reflecting.

Unfortunately, I was rather ill-prepared for such a fight - it came out of the blue, relatively speaking, and the party had been fighting minotaurs and such prior to that.

I figure if I'm better-prepared next time, the party might be able to defeat him. My Intelligence is a 30, my specialized school is divination (with enchantment barred), and I have three pearls of power (one first-level, one second-level, one third-level), so I can prepare quite a few spells. Sadly, I'm pretty much all the spellcasting power the party has to bear, with the rest of the PCs being a Rogue, a Swashbuckler/Rogue, a Fighter, and a Paladin.

If it helps, I also have a lesser metamagic rod of Maximize Spell, and a staff of fire.

Mah Current Spellbook:
1st-level spells:

Abjuration - Shield,

Conjuration - Benign Transposition, Lesser Orb of Sound, Wall of Smoke, Mage Armor, Summon Monster I, Grease

Divination - Comprehend Languages, Identify,

Evocation - Burning Hands, Magic Missile, Tenser's Floating Disk, Shocking Grasp

Illusion - Color Spray, Disguise Self,

Necromancy - Ray of Enfeeblement

Transmutation - Enlarge Person, Feather Fall, Expeditious Retreat

2nd-level spells:

Abjuration - Protection from Arrows, Resist Energy

Conjuration - Stinking Cloud, Glitterdust, Summon Monster II, Web

Divination - See Invisibility

Evocation - Scorching Ray, Continual Flame

Illusion - Blur, Invisibility, Mirror Image, Minor Image

Necromancy - Command Undead, False Life

Transmutation - Alter Self, Bull's Strength, Eagle's Splendor, Fox's Cunning, Cat's Grace, Rope Trick, Levitate, Whispering Wind

3rd-level spells:

Abjuration - Dispel Magic

Conjuration -

Divination - Clairvoyance/Clairaudience

Evocation - Lightning Bolt, Wind Wall,

Illusion - Invisibility Sphere

Necromancy - Ray of Exhaustion

Transmutation - Fly, Haste, Mass Snake's Swiftness

4th-level spells:

Abjuration - Remove Curse

Conjuration - Dimension Door

Divination - Scrying

Evocation - Fire Shield,

Illusion - Greater Invisibility, Shadow Conjuration

Necromancy - Burning Blood, Enervation

5th-level spells:

Abjuration - Acid Sheath, Dismissal

Conjuration - Wall of Stone, Lesser Planar Binding, Teleport

Divination - Prying Eyes, Contact Other Plane, Telepathic Bond

Evocation - Wall of Force

Illusion - Shadow Evocation

Necromancy - Magic Jar

Transmutation - Telekinesis, Fabricate, Overland Flight

Universal - Permanency

6th-level spells:

Evocation: Chain Lightning

Illusion: Permanent Image

Note that the two sixth-level spells there were found as scrolls - I haven't actually picked my two spells for 11th level just yet. :smallsigh: In fact, much of my spellbook is packed with transcribed spells I've found off scrolls.

[AmberVael]

A decent option might just be to prepare a lot of buffs and sit back (or up in the air, or invisible), tossing out Haste, Bull's Strength, and Mass Snake's swiftness on your party, letting them smack the dude to death. After all, he's undead, so his HP can't be all THAT high, relatively speaking. Maybe 100 or so? With four other party members who should be at least minimally skilled in combat (even if the rogues are dealing piddly damage due to lack of sneak attack) I can't see him lasting long against a fully buffed physical assault, even assuming your party is incredibly unoptimized (with snake's swiftness and haste, even assuming each person deals 10 damage per attack- achievable at level 1, mind you, unless he has really high AC... you might even drop him in one round).

[Geigan]

What books do you have access to, and does your group have any sort of bans or houserules in effect?

[TheCountAlucard]

A decent option might just be to prepare a lot of buffs and sit back (or up in the air, or invisible), tossing out Haste, Bull's Strength, and Mass Snake's swiftness on your party, letting them smack the dude to death.Normally, I'd be inclined to think that this could work, though it'd take too long to buff the whole party... is Mass Bull's Strength worth it? :smallconfused:


After all, he's undead, so his HP can't be all THAT high, relatively speaking. Maybe 100 or so?I'm inclined to suspect he's hardier than that - this Deathknight has a history involving a big bad necromancer, so I suspect he might be under the benefits of a desecrate, and possibly some of the boosts provided by Corpsecrafter.


What books do you have access to, and does your group have any sort of bans or houserules in effect?The DM uses a weird 2e critical hit/fumble table, though since our baddy is undead, he's immune to all that fun stuff... but we're not.

Also, he uses a "dynamic" AC - instead of the default 10, you roll a d20 each time you get attacked.

Since the DM has uncanny luck with regards to such rolls, and our Fighter seems cursed to roll in the single-digits, I'm not too fond of the "have the other PCs gang up on him" tactic. :smalleek:

As for books, he allows feats, spells, and magic items from most 3.5 material published by Wizards (and even some 3.0 stuff), but is much more restrictive about classes and PrCs - one of the reasons that I'm a straight Wizard for now...

[Emperor Tippy]

What books do you have access to, and does your group have any sort of bans or houserules in effect?

Seconded.

Also, what kind of scrolls/items can you get access to?

[Randomguy]

The party really needs a cleric.

I suggest get solid fog as one of your 4th level spells. Throw it on anyone and they can only move 5 feet per round. Alternatively, freezing fog if you want him to have to make balance checks, but the effect is reduced because of his cold immunity. Both of these spells are good enough to prepare at least once a day, (until most of the things you fight have freedom of movement) so don't worry about situational use.

Once he's trapped, use ranged attacks and spells to wear him down. The downside is you need a way to see him. There's a spell called tremorsense that gives you tremorsense, but it has a range of personal so only you and your familiar could see and attack him. You can wear him down with lesser orb of sound while he's stuck. Or upgrade to orb of force.

Girallon's blessing lets your fighter add more damage to his attacks, so that's worth looking into. (4 hands on a 2h weapon means 2.5 times strength mod to damage instead of 1.5)

Unless some of your party members have belts of health already mass bears endurance would be a decent 6th level spell.

[TheCountAlucard]

Seconded.

Also, what kind of scrolls/items can you get access to?We're currently in what I suspect to be a no-teleport area, presumably quite a distance away from any proper shops, so I'd prefer the preparation consider the possibility that we aren't able to make any shopping trips before facing him again.

However, I currently have a scroll of Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion, and one of Protection from Arrows. I have a wand of Endure Elements, a staff of fire, and a wand of Mirror Image. I also have a robe of eyes.

The DM doesn't much pay attention to WBL, and doesn't do take-backsies when he rolls on the treasure tables. :smalleek:


The party really needs a cleric.We had one for a while, but he flaked out on us.


I suggest get solid fog as one of your 4th level spells. Throw it on anyone and they can only move 5 feet per round. Alternatively, freezing fog if you want him to have to make balance checks, but the effect is reduced because of his cold immunity. Both of these spells are good enough to prepare at least once a day, (until most of the things you fight have freedom of movement) so don't worry about situational use.Would be nice, but I can't guarantee acquisition of these spells before we fight him again.


...so only you and your familiar could see and attack him.My familiar's currently seeing to other affairs in another city.


Unless some of your party members have belts of health already mass bears endurance would be a decent 6th level spell.Perhaps...

[AmberVael]

Normally, I'd be inclined to think that this could work, though it'd take too long to buff the whole party... is Mass Bull's Strength worth it? :smallconfused:
Well, probably at this level your fighter types will have strength boosting items already, right? If you get a chance to prepare, just drop Bull's Strength on those who need it. Else, don't bother. It's probably not strictly necessary.

Haste, of course, only needs one action for a full party boost if you're all gathered together. Same with Snake's swiftness.


I'm inclined to suspect he's hardier than that - this Deathknight has a history involving a big bad necromancer, so I suspect he might be under the benefits of a desecrate, and possibly some of the boosts provided by Corpsecrafter.
~50 extra hit points really doesn't make him last that much longer against the concentrated fire of an entire party.


Also, just pile on the attack modifiers. Flank, higher ground, get the paladin to cast prayer- just whatever you can pick up.

[TheCountAlucard]

Well, probably at this level your fighter types will have strength boosting items already, right?Our Fighter has a Strength-boosting belt - our Paladin doesn't have one yet.


Else, don't bother. It's probably not strictly necessary.Fair enough.


Haste, of course, only needs one action for a full party boost if you're all gathered together. Same with Snake's swiftness.Yeah, true... still, making all the other players make a bunch of attack rolls seems to be an invitation to disaster, considering the fumble system I mentioned...

[Emperor Tippy]

Well let's see.
1) Polymorph Any Object the air around the Death Knight into stone. Whether this works or not depends on your DM.
2) Disintegrate the ground under the Death Knight, he will now fall into a 10 foot deep hole. Now cast Wall of Stone to trap him in the hole. Unfortunately this won't disable him permanently, but it will buy you time to do other stuff. Ideally, PAO or the like a hole in the covering and fill it with holy water.
3) In the same vein as above but at a level lower, use Fabricate to turn the earth underneath the death knight into a very nice pit trap. :smallwink:
4) Undeath to Death is always nice. The expensive material component and will save are kinda crappy though.
5) There is always a book of Explosive Runes.

[TheCountAlucard]

1) Polymorph Any ObjectUmm, I did say I was 11th-level, right? :smallconfused:


2) DisintegrateUmm, I did say I was 11th-level, right?


Ideally, PAO or the like a hole in the covering and fill it with holy water.Deathknights have high enough DR to never be affected by holy water.


4) Undeath to Death is always nice.He's 15th-level - this will have no effect on him. At best, if he has any minions around, it'll dust them... though frankly, a maximized AoE spell could probably be just as effective without costing me 500 gp.


5) There is always a book of Explosive Runes.Lemme clarify - I don't want my DM throwing any books at me for this. :smalltongue:

[Geigan]

Well you said you got 2 spells to choose for this latest level so those are your biggest choice to make for the upcoming fight. You said spell resistance was being particularly annoying so you may want to grab assay spell resistance from spell compendium. Not exactly 6th level but it's pretty indispensable when going up against high SR enemies. If you get to buy any spells that'd be at the top of the list, and if you don't have enough time or money for that you could try true casting from Complete Mage. Even if you can't buy spells I'd recommend it as your spell for this level, unless there's some specific ones you needed from the 6th spell level right now.

edit: You should have access to disintegrate at 11th level, as it's a 6th level spell. PaO is a bit far off though...

[AmberVael]

Umm, I did say I was 11th-level, right?
Funny enough, Disintegrate is level 6. And you DID mention that you were 11th level, which means, as a wizard, you should be able to take it, right?


Deathknights have high enough DR to never be affected by holy water.
I do not believe Holy water is not affected by DR.

So you can modify Tippy's plan by simply using disintegrate and then covering the hole with a wall of stone spell. Tada.

[Emperor Tippy]

Umm, I did say I was 11th-level, right? :smallconfused:
PAO should always be mentioned, even when it can't be cast.


Umm, I did say I was 11th-level, right?
Disintegrate is 6th level, hence you can cast it. Unless you are a sorcerer, in which case you should have mentioned that.


Deathknights have high enough DR to never be affected by holy water.
DR doesn't apply to Holy Water.


He's 15th-level - this will have no effect on him. At best, if he has any minions around, it'll dust them... though frankly, a maximized AoE spell could probably be just as effective without costing me 500 gp.
It will do 11d4 HD worth. Average roll of 2.5 gives you 22HD worth.


Lemme clarify - I don't want my DM throwing any books at me for this. :smalltongue:
Well you should have mentioned that as well then. :smallwink:

---
Now, 4th level spell Celestial Brilliance from the Book of Exalted Deeds let's you enchant an object to radiate a 120 foot radius aura of holy light that deals 1d6 no save, no sr damage per round to undead that are within that radius. It last's 1 day/level so you can give everyone an item or two and then just run around avoiding the Death Knight until he dies.

[TheCountAlucard]

You said spell resistance was being particularly annoying so you may want to grab assay spell resistance from spell compendium.While annoying, it wasn't insurmountable. It was a 25, so I can beat it on a 14.


Not exactly 6th level but it's pretty indispensable when going up against high SR enemies.True, but remember he could choose to zap it back at me with his spell turning.


If you get to buy any spells that'd be at the top of the list...Mmm-hmm, but I'm not counting on it...


You should have access to disintegrate at 11th level, as it's a 6th level spell. PoO is a bit far off though...So I noticed - I accidentally mistook it for a 7th-level spell. :smalleek:


Funny enough, Disintegrate is level 6. And you DID mention that you were 11th level, which means, as a wizard, you should be able to take it, right?Yeah, you're right. :smallredface:


I do not believe Holy water is not affected by DR.I've heard it argued both ways.


So you can modify Tippy's plan by simply using disintegrate and then covering the hole with a wall of stone spell. Tada.He's got a Nightmare mount, so he can just go ethereal through it.


DR doesn't apply to Holy Water.I've seen nothing to indicate that it doesn't, save for the fact that doing so would make holy water useless, which it pretty much already is.



It will do 11d4 HD worth. Average roll of 2.5 gives you 22HD worth.Circle of Death doesn't affect targets over 9 HD, so Undeath to Death, which functions as the same, save that it affects undead, won't affect this guy.


Now, 4th level spell Celestial Brilliance from the Book of Exalted Deeds let's you enchant an object to radiate a 120 foot radius aura of holy light that deals 1d6 no save, no sr damage per round to undead that are within that radius. It last's 1 day/level so you can give everyone an item or two and then just run around avoiding the Death Knight until he dies.I might have to look that one up.

[Emperor Tippy]

Also, Tippy, Circle of Death doesn't affect targets over 9 HD, so Undeath to Death, which functions as the same, save that it affects undead, won't affect this guy.

Hmm, didn't notice that.

I would just do Disintegrate/fabricate on the ground under him and then throw in a few dozen items with Celestial Brilliance on them. No save, No SR, 1d6 damage a round should kill him eventually. Add a roof if you want to be sure he stays until he is dead.

If you want extra fun, make the hole and then make a wall of iron plug sized to fit in the hole. Cast Celestial Brilliance on the iron plug and then push it in. You crush him, and even if he survives he is pinned and getting him with 1d6 damage per round.

[TheCountAlucard]

The pit idea probably won't work either, because of his nightmare mount - it can use etherealness at will, after all.

[Emperor Tippy]

The pit idea probably won't work either, because of his nightmare mount - it can use etherealness at will, after all.

That's only when, you know, he has the mount on him.

And you can just hit the Nightmare with a Dimensional Anchor. It is no save, a Nightmare lacks SR, and the Nightmare only has a touch AC of 10.

[Geigan]

Neutralizing that nightmare sounds like a good choice for first on the to-do list when fighting him. It's his means of mobility, escape, and the biggest blocker to all your attempts to trap him in. I'd forgo the dimensional anchor and kill it straight out.

Should we assume all those resistances he had would extend to his mount? If not a maximized scorching ray or if so a disintegrate should do the trick. I'm most curious if the spell turning would affect his mount or not. As far as I know deathknights don't share spells with their mount, and if he's some sort of evil paladin treating it as his mount would he share the effect with it like he does paladin spells?

Regardless of the means the horse needs to go pronto, even if it means telling your melee to ignore him to beat on his horse first. If he fights without his horse out from the beginning you should go through with Tippy's plan until he summons it and then kill it as fast as possible. At which point you just need to keep him from running away until celestial brilliance finishes him.

[Eldariel]

First of all, Nightmares know Astral Projection. I'd make sure (True Seeing allows you to see the silver cord, for instance; Contact Other Plane should allow you to figure this one out too) that it's not just a Projection you're facing. You might want to try and acquire some other information too, such as his peak caster level (one-word answer, COP should give you the exacts), strongest spell he can cast and his weak defense (save/touch AC/whatever), if any.

Disintegrate is the usual go-to for dusting Undead since they have poor Fort-saves and no Con but a Blackguard may have problematically high Fort unless you have seriously pimped out Disintegrates which you probably don't. Polymorph Any Object would indeed be optimal in 2 levels, but now is now.

Far as Spell Turning goes, it's probably not over 10 levels (unless it's empowered, the spell caps at 10 levels). You most likely can't Dispel anything he can cast (short of acquiring a scroll of Disjunction; short of something like Wishes though I can't see a reliable means of acquiring one and they're bloody expensive to boot) but you could throw a dummy spell of 5th or higher level at the protections and then try to Disintegrate (well, rather, Assay Resistance > Dummy Spell into True Strike > Disintegrate; he may well have Cha to AC somehow). Now, the big issue with this sequence is you'd need to get an extra turn's worth of actions somehow. It might take keen interest in you if you begin cutting into its SR and blowing through its Spell Turning.

You do have access to Anti-Magic Field if you think that'd help your warriors beat him into submission but unfortunately monstrous creatures tend to be ridiculously strong in AMFs 'cause they rely far less on magic items than PCs; but you'd have the numbers on him (Aid Another is strong en masse) and the Nightmare is relatively powerless in an AMF. Still, it's a thought. Perhaps another avenue you could explore via. COP.


Most ways to directly harm it would unfortunately require a successful touch attack, check or a failed save on its part. Tippy is onto something; it may be more productive to try and attack him with the environment. Alas, you're one spell level below the point where you truly begin to get options in that regard (Limited Wish and especially Polymorph Any Object begin to get there). Still, Disintegrate is a decent Standard Action spell to somewhat manipulate the environment for what it's worth; be creative (if it wasn't clear yet, yes, you do want Disintegrate; it's a premiere Undead-slayer spell only second to Polymorph Any Object, and a great swiss army knife to boot).

Obviously, trying to acquire weapons that truly harm it (Holy Weapons are a fair guess; depending on his body type he may have damage type related DR too) would be a great idea. You can buff the warriors quite a bit with Greater Magic Weapon, Haste, Enlarge Person, Invisibilities (though I wouldn't expect for that line to accomplish much; it probably has a goodly bunch of extraordinary senses; what has your Knowledge: Religion revealed on the creature thus far?) or even Blink, provided you can negate his See Invis-type abilities that give him vision of the Ethereal Plane (obviously you need to disable the Nightmare's Etherealness if you're ever to stand a chance; you aren't equipped to fight planar fights yet, even within the coexistent planes).

You could also try to Planar Bind some assistance; if you learn Planar Binding, you could e.g. access an Astral Deva or a Glabrezu either of which would provide a mighty ally (hopefully a Deva would understand why you had to choose such an unconventional approach to calling one; 'cause that's all you know!). Unfortunately, Devas are the one Angel-type that can't cast as a Cleric. And Glabrezu doesn't know all that many useful spells either (most importantly, his Dispel Magic isn't of the Greater variety). Do note that Lesser Planar Binding could bind you your own Nightmare for what it's worth. Those Sus are heavenly.


Acquiring Dispelling Cord [MiC] and learning Spellcaster's Bane [CM] could give you a remote shot at affecting it with Greater Dispel (or Dispel Magic if you have no caster level boosters), though I wager its Caster Level is probably higher than just 15.

You could try Telekinesis to throw a whole bunch of Holy Swords at it provided you have some way to Chain Bless Weapon. This'd depend on figuring out its DR/Regeneration/Similars, if any, but could provide a very reasonable damage source.

Overall, right now I can only brainstorm since you know too little on the adversary you face. I suggest given the chance, your first order of business is to prepare Contact Other Plane in all your higher level slots with Alter Fortune or two prepared in case you are about to get FUBARd and try to paint a more accurate composite picture of what exactly you're dealing with.

My guess would be an undead creature with Cleric casting (perhaps even with the Death Knight template itself) but the details are what you really need to stand a true chance against an opponent so much above you on the power curve.

EDIT: OH! You're too low to pick up Craft Contingent Spell yourself yet but you could try to find someone with the feat and craft some contingencies to eliminate some actions needed for spells like True Strike and Assay Resistance to speed up your attack sequence.

EDIT#2: To be clear, much depends on if it's got Clerical casting or not. If not, I wager you could have a very real chance of dusting it. Chain Greater Dispel Magic would wipe the magic items it's relying on for stuff like Spell Turning and similars for long enough for you to land a telling Disintegrate. If they're spells tho, this is far more complex. You have to acquire information IC on all that tho. It could be a by-the-book Death Knight but even those come in all class setups, and it could be some pimped up version.

[TheCountAlucard]

I'd make sure (True Seeing allows you to see the silver cord, for instance; Contact Other Plane should allow you to figure this one out too) that it's not just a Projection you're facing.I agree - this is worth busting out a Contact Other Plane for. :smalltongue:


such as his peak caster level...Pretty sure he's a blackguard, so it should be rather low.


strongest spell he can cast...We've never actually seen him cast a spell, strangely enough...


and his weak defense (save/touch AC/whatever), if any.Also worth checking.


Disintegrate is the usual go-to for dusting Undead since they have poor Fort-saves and no Con but a Blackguard may have problematically high Fort unless you have seriously pimped out Disintegrates which you probably don't.My thoughts exactly, and 5d6 just ain't gonna cut it. :smalltongue:


Far as Spell Turning goes, it's probably not over 10 levels (unless it's empowered, the spell caps at 10 levels).Well, like I said, it's coming from his shield. Since the shield effect says, "Once per day, it can be called on to reflect a spell back at its caster..." I might be able to make him blow it on a weenie spell, like Magic Missile. :smalltongue:


You most likely can't Dispel anything he can cast...Umm, what makes you say that? :smallconfused:


It might take keen interest in you if you begin cutting into its SR and blowing through its Spell Turning.A necessary risk, I'm afraid.


You do have access to Anti-Magic Field if you think that'd help your warriors beat him into submission...Unfortunately, he'd retain his DR 15/magic in the AMF, while the PCs' magic weapons would be powered down. :smalleek:


Most ways to directly harm it would unfortunately require a successful touch attack, check or a failed save on its part.Seeing how he's a "full plate and shield" guy, I'm inclined to aim for his touch AC. He's never failed a saving throw I've forced on him, though. :smalleek:


depending on his body type he may have damage type related DR too...Nope, just the 15/magic from the Death Knight template, and the 3/- from his adamantine full plate.


what has your Knowledge: Religion revealed on the creature thus far?Mostly just the stuff off the Death Knight template.

Also, related to the ethereal stuff, one of the PCs has a ghost touch weapon.


You could also try to Planar Bind some assistance...Been considering this for a while as well.


Overall, right now I can only brainstorm since you know too little on the adversary you face.Fair enough.


I suggest given the chance, your first order of business is to prepare Contact Other Plane in all your higher level slots with Alter Fortune or two prepared in case you are about to get FUBARd and try to paint a more accurate composite picture of what exactly you're dealing with.Not a bad idea.


My guess would be an undead creature with Cleric casting (perhaps even with the Death Knight template itself) but the details are what you really need to stand a true chance against an opponent so much above you on the power curve.No, this is definitely a Death Knight - too much evidence suggests otherwise. We've been hit with his little abyssal fire-blast twice now, and both times my character has recognized it as the once-a-day supernatural hell-blast that's a DK's signature move; he's got DR 15/magic, a fear aura, spell resistance, a Nightmare mount, and the undead minions... while it's possible for him to have all these things separately from different things, it seems a little... improbable that the DM would go to all that trouble and then tell me that it's a Death Knight. :smalltongue:


You're too low to pick up Craft Contingent Spell yourself yet but you could try to find someone with the feat and craft some contingencies to eliminate some actions needed for spells like True Strike and Assay Resistance to speed up your attack sequence.Not a bad idea, assuming I can find someone with it.


To be clear, much depends on if it's got Clerical casting or not.Pretty sure he doesn't.


It could be a by-the-book Death Knight but even those come in all class setups, and it could be some pimped up version.True, true... yeah, I think I'll be doing the COP routine.

[Seharvepernfan]

See if you can't get your hands on some undead bane arrows. Have the party spread out after some buffing. Try to get dimensional anchor.

[Nagukuk]

Why did you do only one point of damage to him on your first encounter?

Did the fact you were low level not allow you to hit his AC?

Could you not beat his DR?

The Anti magic Zone idea works on some opponents but not usually on a melee type. Especially since you AT LEAST need magic to hit him. The DM may have tweaked is DR. Since the DK is 3.0 his DR as you stated was 15/+1, BUT he has not been changed from 3/3.5 like many other creatures have. (someone in my group is playing a DK so i did a bit of research)

in the conversion USUALLY, the DR is dropped by 5, and the factor needed to overcome it is changed or added to. Usually depending on the power of the original DR.

The Lich has not changed across versions, and perhaps the DM thought the simple +1too weak for a "powerful DeathKnight" you may be looking at something from 15Magic+Blunt(like the lich) or X magic+good, X good, etc.


If he is resistant /immune to fire, try Acid. The Orb spells are your friend,
NO SAVE, NO SPELL RESIST - ranged touch attack. Use your Rod to Maxi a few 1st lvl Acid orb spells or better yet 4th Acid or Force Orb (I think you can do a 4th with a lesser rod)

At least use it to help kill off the mount, which defeats any fly/hover defense you have against him.

Remember the DK carried a fireball=HD (1/2fire 1/2divine damage) around in his pocket and can let it out once a day.


What are your chances of finding the vampire who seems to have beef with the DK, and working with him to destroy the DK? I see you have a Pally in the group, maybe there is a small chance the Vamp is not evil. "Shrug"

[TheCountAlucard]

Why did you do only one point of damage to him on your first encounter?Actually, we almost destroyed him on our first encounter - that staff of fire really messed him up.

The second encounter, we only did a single point of damage to him.


Did the fact you were low level not allow you to hit his AC?Actually, after he almost one-shotted our Fighter with a crit on the first turn, everyone else was too chicken to do anything but stand back and shoot him with ranged weapons. :smallsigh:


Could you not beat his DR?We've all got magic weapons now, so it shouldn't prove that troublesome.


in the conversion USUALLY, the DR is dropped by 5, and the factor needed to overcome it is changed or added to. Usually depending on the power of the original DR.He's sticking with it being 15, and since a +1 is the lowest available enchantment, it's just /magic.


If he is resistant /immune to fire, try Acid. The Orb spells are your friend, NO SAVE, NO SPELL RESIST - ranged touch attack.Unless he blows it back at me with Spell Turning, remember... :smallsigh:


I think you can do a 4th with a lesser rodNope, first through third.


Remember the DK carried a fireball=HD (1/2fire 1/2divine damage) around in his pocket and can let it out once a day.Yes, I know - considering Mass Resist Energy for that eventuality, though to be honest, even at lower levels, the damage wasn't enough to seriously threaten our well-being...


What are your chances of finding the vampire who seems to have beef with the DK, and working with him to destroy the DK?We found this big fancy castle where he probably resides - we saw a gaseous form going in and out of it.


I see you have a Pally in the group, maybe there is a small chance the Vamp is not evil.Nope, Paladin's first action after seeing the vampire was to ping him on his evil-dar. Definitely not a nice guy.

[Eldariel]

Umm, what makes you say that? :smallconfused:

Was operating under the assumption that he was a spellcaster. If it's his Shield, just disable it with targeted (optimally Chained; Rod of Chain Spell would be a godsent here) (Greater) Dispel Magic and gratuitous application of Dispel boosters.


Unfortunately, he'd retain his DR 15/magic in the AMF, while the PCs' magic weapons would be powered down. :smalleek:

Conveniently, DR/Magic is actually Supernatural (see Rules Compendium).


Seeing how he's a "full plate and shield" guy, I'm inclined to aim for his touch AC. He's never failed a saving throw I've forced on him, though. :smalleek:

You've probably never forced a Fort-save on him since only Disintegrate and Polymorph Any Object can affect Undead out of the common Fort-save offering spells (and few specific types like Lich and Death Knight have immunity to Polymorphs). And he has a null score Con so it could just work.


Nope, just the 15/magic from the Death Knight template, and the 3/- from his adamantine full plate.

Ah, so irrelevant. Chain Greater Magic Weapon on a bunch of mundane swords poured from Bag of Holding for instance; drop 'em to the ground, nuke to the face for massive damage with violent thrust wielding as many as you can (big enough to hit the weight limit).


No, this is definitely a Death Knight - too much evidence suggests otherwise. We've been hit with his little abyssal fire-blast twice now, and both times my character has recognized it as the once-a-day supernatural hell-blast that's a DK's signature move; he's got DR 15/magic, a fear aura, spell resistance, a Nightmare mount, and the undead minions... while it's possible for him to have all these things separately from different things, it seems a little... improbable that the DM would go to all that trouble and then tell me that it's a Death Knight. :smalltongue:

Death Knight is a template; it could have levels in any base class. But from what you've seen it seems like a martial Death Knight is the order of business so you should just break out standard hard-to-kill target attack procedures. Assay Resistance should be sufficient to penetrate him with SR-allowing spells (and a Swift Action Divination to boot) and Disintegrate could hurt him quite a bit.

Other than that, debuffs are of course considerable. And he probably has a stupid amount of Charisma to everything; disabling his magic items with a Chained Dispel Magic could really help your position.

As such my threat estimate would change to treating the Nightmare mount as the first priority to disable.

[Nagukuk]

If you are worried about him pinging a spell back at you.

Cast Shield on your self, then hit him with Magic Missiles, until he pings one back at you, you are immune to it via shield then unload your best Maxied spells on him.

Alt:
As it was stated before blow the Nightmare out of the air. He probably cannot bounce the spell you cast that hits the mount, unless he is some freaky prestige or perhaps has an exotic riders shield.

[Randomguy]

Picking up transdimensional spell next level might be a good idea, if you don't kill him while you're level 11, so that your area affect spells still get him.

You can hit his shield with a targeted dispel magic and then hit him with your blasty spells. Magic items tend to have low caster levels.

[JadePhoenix]

If you're so afraid of spell turning, why don't you polymorph into a creature immune to, say, fire then attack him with a maximized sroching ray or something like that?

[TuggyNE]

Also, as far as I can tell, spell turning doesn't do anything against e.g. orbs:

Spells and spell-like effects targeted on you are turned back upon the original caster. The abjuration turns only spells that have you as a target. Effect and area spells are not affected. Spell turning also fails to stop touch range spells. I don't have the text for orb of acid, but if it's anything like acid splash, then it has an Effect: line and no Target: line.

So that's something to consider too.

[TheCountAlucard]

Cast Shield on your self, then hit him with Magic Missiles, until he pings one back at you, you are immune to it via shield then unload your best Maxied spells on him.Believe it or not, I bounced this very idea around earlier with a friend just a little bit ago. :smalltongue:


As it was stated before blow the Nightmare out of the air. He probably cannot bounce the spell you cast that hits the mount, unless he is some freaky prestige or perhaps has an exotic riders shield.I did manage to hit his nightmare last time while he was getting away, but I didn't do enough to bring it down that time.


You can hit his shield with a targeted dispel magic and then hit him with your blasty spells.On that note, if I target him with a targeted dispel, could the Spell Turning turn it back on me? :smallconfused:


Magic items tend to have low caster levels.This one's at least CL 14.


If you're so afraid of spell turning, why don't you polymorph into a creature immune to, say, fire then attack him with a maximized sroching ray or something like that?Now there's an idea. :smallsmile: